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[Hellshy.]

Yeah I know but looks like the game have been designed with them in mind. It probably won't be very intuitive without them. We'll see.

Good point . At the same time with the amount of UI adjustments I think it won't be too hard to find a balance that keeps things intuitive while also reducing the hand holding and clutter

 

[mortal]

The answer to your questions are answered there, and a lot of what you posted was wrong, but I give up, people will just keep posting the same thing over and over despite evidence to the contrary. You information you seek is out there, not my fault you refuse to seek it out.

Going by the passive aggressiveness of your post, you're just looking to argue. You like what you see in Horizon, I wanted to see more unconventional ideas in the gameplay. It's a matter of opinion, It's all good.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I just don't understand the need for people to defend the game they are excited about so adamantly against people who remain skeptical of it. Before the game is out it is all based on faith in the developer and the preview footage you've seen,just like it always is. Even most of those "glowing" previews remain restrained, saying that if the game keeps the pace it has for the first four hours it could be really great, but once again they also have no idea if that is the case, for now.

It is obvious that this game borrows a lot from the Ubisoft open world template and there is nothing wrong about that in general. There is a reason why there have been so many of those games; it is a good template, a great template even, but it is also understandable why some people may be fed up with it. Climbing towers was a great feeling in the first two Assassin's creed games, because it was new, it was fun to climb those landmarks as a way to reveal a map, since you were both engaging with the "then-new" parkour system and the exploration of a historical setting which was at the time also relatively fresh and new. But once again I can see how people can be fed up with it all these games later, despite the fact that the tower is masked as a huge, moving dinosaur, even if I think it is a cool design and an idea.

There really is nothing in Horizon shown so far that indicates that it will shake up the open-world formula. To this day, the only game that even gave a hint of something like that is Shadow of Mordor with the Nemesis system, but until Monolith refines it and we see more of it, it remains to be seen if it is the big change the open world games need.

That doesn't mean that Horizon can't be a great, or an even amazing game, it just means it has to rely more on the talent and dedication of the dev team to make all the actions in that open world feel rewarding and satisfying to the player despite them being familiar or/and similar to other games. But, there is no way to know that until the game is actually out.

And there are some even more obvious reasons why some may be skeptical, even now I am still worried about the story and the world-building in this game, and even the "glowing" previews have shown concern about this aspect of the game.

"The Bildungsroman journey of Aloy from outcast, to tribal Brave, to wandering adventurer amidst a post-post-apocalyptic world – initially offers a tantalising sense of mystery. What is this place, what happened to it, and why did Aloy have to work her way back into the tribe in the first place? After, the first three missions, however, I feel pretty confident about exactly where the story’s headed, not least because you’re quite literally dropped into the ruins of the “Metal World” in the opening section and bombarded with expositive audio logs."

So, yeah no need for anyone in this thread to be so hostile to people, if you are excited for it great, if you are skeptical about it, there are reasons to be skeptical and you can just wait until the game is out to decide whether it is worth your time and money.

Who is being hostile to people? If this is meant towards me, i mere asked him why is he here if he is so bored by the previews and what he has seen so far of the game, and it seems he has been preaching his negativity in multiple Horizon Threads. I understand someone being skeptical but blurting out all kinds of "it's bland' and "generic' and "I don't see" comments without elaborating isn't really inviting much conversation.

That being said I never understood why games must innovate, or bring new things to the table for the game to be interesting and worth our time. Isn't a compelling world, interesting characters, good, refined gameplay, decent story enough? I mean we are not exploring space, or curing cancer. We are playing video games.

 

[R0nn]

Funny thing is, I also consciencely thought to myself how the game seems to borrow almost everything from many other recent, popular titles. Like the crafting, the hunting/gathering, the skill tree, the traders, the open world structure, the scanning, the use of tools and traps as supplements to your weapons. It's almost like the game is ticking off a standardized list of popular gameplay elements.

Still, despite all that, I do think the game looks very cool and it appears fun to play. It seems all those aforementioned gameplay elements blend together really well to make it a very polished, cohesive whole. This might be a classic case of a game being better than the sum of it's parts.

 

[ironcreed]

I think the game looks more incredible than ever. I am pretty gobsmacked by it.

 

[onemanasylum]

Going by the passive aggressiveness of your post, you're just looking to argue. You like what you see in Horizon, I wanted to see more ideas in the gameplay. It's a matter of opinion, It's all good.

Nope, like I said, nearly all of your "Concerns: are touched on in all the previews out there, it's as simple as that.

 

[ekim]

One person in this thread said it was too action focused. You think it isn't action focused enough.

I'm not criticizing your complaint. It is just interesting.

Different tastes and different expectations that were built by the reveal. It's kind of anecdotal because when I get hyped for a game I mostly get disappointed after the honey moon period when I play it. It happened to often for me: LA Noire, Mafia 3, Quantum Break, Watch_Dogs, Destiny... just to name the first that come to mind. I always had this nagging feeling that I miss something when I play them but it was just the things I imagined should have been there. On the opposite my favorite games are the ones that I found to look not my cup of tea at the first reveals: Heavy Rain, Forza Horizon, Sunset Overdrive, Overwatch. I didn't follow those games and bought them because of good reviews but I had not seen that much about them. It's kind of a Paradoxon now that I think about it.

 

[Loudninja]

Funny thing is, I also consciencely thought to myself how the game seems to borrow almost everything from many other recent, popular titles. Like the crafting, the hunting/gathering, the skill tree, the traders, the open world structure, the scanning, the use of tools and traps as supplements to your weapons. It's almost like the game is ticking off a standardized list of popular gameplay elements.

Still, despite all that, I do think the game looks very cool and it appears fun to play. It seems all those aforementioned gameplay elements blend together really well to make it a very polished, cohesive whole. This might be a classic case of a game being better than the sum of it's parts.

This is all very basic stuff :/

I mean its and rpg most of that is expected.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Funny thing is, I also consciencely thought to myself how the game seems to borrow almost everything from many other recent, popular titles. Like the crafting, the hunting/gathering, the skill tree, the traders, the open world structure, the scanning, the use of tools and traps as supplements to your weapons. It's almost like the game is ticking off a standardized list of popular gameplay elements.

Still, despite all that, I do think the game looks very cool and it appears fun to play. It seems all those aforementioned gameplay elements blend together really well to make it a very polished, cohesive whole. This might be a classic case of a game being better than the sum of it's parts.

All games do that but like you said if it comes together good that is when we get a good game.

 

[george_us]

For the smaller robos it won't make sense breaking off parts of them to use vs them .
Since after a while they most likely going to be easy to kill.
Still you can hack them and let them fight for you which much better IMO .

I mean you could have a situation where you break off a part of one of the smaller robots and it turns into some kind of hand gun or drops grenades depending or what kind of weapon said robot uses. Or you could break off one of those bull-looking things's horns and use it as a melee weapon. Stuff like that. That's the kind of stuff that I though we'd see more of.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Even most of those "glowing" previews remain restrained, saying that if the game keeps the pace it has for the first four hours it could be really great, but once again they also have no idea if that is the case, for now.

I don't see how that is being restrained. They were speaking to what they played. Yeah, they don't know if it will continue through and through but that isn't being cautious or anything. They said it is good/great.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I wonder if they've removed the ability to knock a weapon off a creature and use it against it? I haven't seen that in any of the recent gameplay vids. It wouldn't bother me in particular but I'd be interested to know if it's still there. Perhaps they decided it was overpowered?

 

[Mifune]

I wonder if they've removed the ability to knock a weapon off a creature and use it against it? I haven't seen that in any of the recent gameplay vids. It wouldn't bother me in particular but I'd be interested to know if it's still there. Perhaps they decided it was overpowered?

It's still there but only against the big big guys.

 

[mortal]

You've summed up all of the nagging issues I have Horizon every time I watch gameplay videos. It's a game that I actually want to be super excited for, but every time I watch gameplay footage I come away with a "This is it?" feeling. Maybe I'm just completely burnt out on open world games. I was hoping the whole "break off a robot and use it against them" would be more prominent but, so far, it seems to be limited to just that robo t-rex thing.

Essentially where I am right now in regard to this game. Guerrilla have some pretty cool ideas with the combat, but I wished they extended that creativity to other areas of gameplay.
I'll make my leave from this thread. I'm not here to hate on the game or take away from anyone's excitement in the thread. I know how gamers get about criticism of things they like.

 

[Loudninja]

I wonder if they've removed the ability to knock a weapon off a creature and use it against it? I haven't seen that in any of the recent gameplay vids. It wouldn't bother me in particular but I'd be interested to know if it's still there. Perhaps they decided it was overpowered?

Nope.

@hallowenboy Hasn't changed, can still be disabled/picked up. Certain types of trees/rocks are destructible, no change there either.

https://twitter.com/dejongemathijs/status/827998012710465536

 

[viHuGi]

I wonder if they've removed the ability to knock a weapon off a creature and use it against it? I haven't seen that in any of the recent gameplay vids. It wouldn't bother me in particular but I'd be interested to know if it's still there. Perhaps they decided it was overpowered?

Wondering also about that hum

Maybe it was overpowered.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Different tastes and different expectations that were built by the reveal. It's kind of anecdotal because when I get hyped for a game I mostly get disappointed after the honey moon period when I play it. It happened to often for me: LA Noire, Mafia 3, Quantum Break, Watch_Dogs, Destiny... just to name the first that come to mind. I always had this nagging feeling that I miss something when I play them but it was just the things I imagined should have been there. On the opposite my favorite games are the ones that I found to look not my cup of tea at the first reveals: Heavy Rain, Forza Horizon, Sunset Overdrive, Overwatch. I didn't follow those games and bought them because of good reviews but I had not seen that much about them. It's kind of a Paradoxon now that I think about it.

Exposure may be a big factor for sure.

If you follow it closely, your imagination runs a bit wild and your expectations begin to unknowingly form based on those imaginations. On the other hand, you don't follow and suddenly expose yourself specifically to what the game is offering. You're going in fresh so it is based on exactly what the dev is trying to do rather than what you want it to do.

Of course, there are instances of the reverse as well where you enjoyed the game you followed and didn't enjoy the game that suddenly beeped on your radar.

I wonder which way happens more often though.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

It's still there but only against the big big guys.

Nope.

https://twitter.com/dejongemathijs/status/827998012710465536

Smashing. Thank you.

 

[Ghostmaster]

Who is being hostile to people? If this is meant towards me, i mere asked him why is he here if he is so bored by the previews and what he has seen so far of the game, and it seems he has been preaching his negativity in multiple Horizon Threads. I understand someone being skeptical but blurting out all kinds of "it's bland' and "generic' and "I don't see" comments without elaborating isn't really inviting much conversation.

That being said I never understood why games must innovate, or bring new things to the table for the game to be interesting and worth our time. Isn't a compelling world, interesting characters, good, refined gameplay, decent story enough? I mean we are not exploring space, or curing cancer. We are playing video games.

Nah, that was aimed more for the guy who railed on the guy with the Witcher avatar just for that, even though he said that he didn't think that the combat in Witcher 3 was all that great.

And yeah I agree with your second paragraph, but I can also see how some people can be burnt out on open world games at this point.

I like Assassin's Creed games, but there was a moment when I was playing Syndicate that I realized that I was having pretty much the same amount of fun(not much) like I did in Unity, despite the fact that I objectively thought it was a much better game than Unity. So I can understand how some would be unfazed by Horizon if they've been playing lots of Far Cry games recently, despite some noticeable differences between those games and Horizon.

I don't see how that is being restrained. They were speaking to what they played. Yeah, they don't know if it will continue through and through but that isn't being cautious or anything. They said it is good/great.

I meant restrained compared to some of the people in the preview thread who have been claiming that it was already a done deal that the game will be great. We just have no idea if the game remains consistent throughout yet, 4 hours is not that long for an open world game, that is optimistically a quarter of the average playtime.

 

[Domcorleone]

Funny thing is, I also consciencely thought to myself how the game seems to borrow almost everything from many other recent, popular titles. Like the crafting, the hunting/gathering, the skill tree, the traders, the open world structure,the scanning, the use of tools and traps as supplements to your weapons. It's almost like the game is ticking off a standardized list of popular gameplay elements.

Still, despite all that, I do think the game looks very cool and it appears fun to play. It seems all those aforementioned gameplay elements blend together really well to make it a very polished, cohesive whole. This might be a classic case of a game being better than the sum of it's parts.

So you telling me it's sorta like other RPGs????

I'm starting to think some of you have a narrative in your head and like to repeat it ad nausem. I hope you've levied the same complaints to the other WRPGs before Horizon.

The most interesting and unique part of Horizon is the combat yet people are focusing on its similarities to other rpgs. So as an action RPG the game shouldn't have a trading or crafting system because others did it before? Legit question btw.

 

[Deku Tree]

What did we learn in this livestream?

 

[onemanasylum]

So you telling me it's sorta like other RPGs????

I'm starting to think some of you have a narrative in your head and like to repeat it ad nausem. I hope you've levied the same complaints to the other WRPGs before Horizon.

The most interesting and unique part of Horizon is the combat yet people are focusing on its similarities to other rpgs. So as an action RPG the game shouldn't have a trading or crafting system because others did it before? Legit question btw.

Yet somehow...zelda and other games are not getting the same criticism. I mean I have a switch pre-ordered, but zelda is also taking cues from other open world games.. Nothing wrong with that. Seems there isn't much to criticise with Horizon so this is what people have to go on.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

So you telling me it's sorta like other RPGs????

I'm starting to think some of you have a narrative in your head and like to repeat it ad nausem. I hope you've levied the same complaints to the other WRPGs before Horizon.

The most interesting and unique part of Horizon is the combat yet people are focusing on its similarities to other rpgs. So as an action RPG the game shouldn't have a trading or crafting system because others did it before? Legit question btw.

It is that "new" and "innovation" thing. People have been playing open world games for a while now and they want something that completely flips those open world/RPG mechanics on their head. Since Horizon hasn't done that, it is being criticized for some things that are common in games of this nature.

In other words, I don't think it is Horizon itself. People are just venting their frustrations on Horizon.

What did we learn in this livestream?

I think it's a good sign that I was surprised quite a few times in this hour of gameplay

- The Thunderjaw climbing up the cliff to reach you
- The detailed articulation and animations of the Tallneck's feet
- The interaction between machines like the Broadhead kicking the other robot
- How the corruption changed the machine's behavior (deers going from fleeing after being alerted to rushing you in explosive suicide charges)

And that was only like 4 machine types and early game

.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Double. My bad.

 

[onemanasylum]

It is that "new" and "innovation" thing. People have been playing open world games for a while now and they want something that completely flips those open world/RPG mechanics on their head. Since Horizon hasn't done that, it is being criticized for some things that are common in games of this nature.

In other words, I don't think it is Horizon itself. People are just venting their frustrations on Horizon.

OK, but why Horizon and not zelda or every other Open World game? I have never seen a game get so much criticism for doing what most open world games have? Not to mention the premise and setup for the game is unique imo.

 

[Domcorleone]

It is that "new" and "innovation" thing. People have been playing open world games for a while now and they want something that completely flips those open world/RPG mechanics on their head. Since Horizon hasn't done that, it is being criticized for some things that are common in games of this nature.

In other words, I don't think it is Horizon itself. People are just venting their frustrations on Horizon.

But what feels fresh from Horizon is its combat in the sense how you have to trap, pursue, flee and prepare for each combat scenario. You have to leverage your resources to your advantage to take down key parts of these robots in order to make the fight more manageable. What other game aside from Monster Hunter is doing that?

That's unique enough imo.

 

[Elfstruck]

It is that "new" and "innovation" thing. People have been playing open world games for a while now and they want something that completely flips those open world/RPG mechanics on their head. Since Horizon hasn't done that, it is being criticized for some things that are common in games of this nature.

In other words, I don't think it is Horizon itself. People are just venting their frustrations on Horizon.

.

What you are saying is that Horizon gotta take one for the team? Goddam it, GG can't catch a break...

 

[DriftingSpirit]

OK, but why Horizon and not zelda or every other Open World game? I have never seen a game get so much criticism for doing what most open world games have?

Zelda is a cherished IP that has been around for a long time. Horizon is a fresh out the womb IP.

It is easier to get at the young buck.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

OK, but why Horizon and not zelda or every other Open World game? I have never seen a game get so much criticism for doing what most open world games have?

^this, double standards if I do say so myself.

 

[Ghostmaster]

OK, but why Horizon and not zelda or every other Open World game? I have never seen a game get so much criticism for doing what most open world games have?

Horizon is an open world game with the most push behind it, besides Zelda. And Guerrilla Games are yet to make a great game, Zelda has had a number of great games, and in general Nintentdo has more of a pedigree than Guerilla.

But make no mistake if Zelda doesn't live up to expectations, it will receive far more backlash than Horizon.

 

[Shredderi]

Well it is true that I've been waiting for some genius to come up with a new "magic formula" to open world games that completely redefine how we think about developing meaningful content for them. Something that hasn't been seen before and will have a huge impact on the genre and shift us into a new era for open world games.I just fear that something like that would take 10 years of pure high budget prototyping before even thinking about applying it into a game...

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Horizon is an open world game with the most push behind it, besides Zelda. And Guerrilla Games are yet to make a great game, Zelda has had a number of great games, and in general Nintentdo has more of a pedigree than Guerilla.

But make no mistake if Zelda doesn't live up to expectations, it will receive far more backlash than Horizon.

 

[More_Badass]

The first couple of times it should be interesting to fight new robots to get new parts, but once your inventory is quite filled with materials, why not just get past ennemies and avoid fights to get to your destination. At one point, I can see myself avoiding fights altogether because they get in the way of my goal, just like I did in Okami, fighting became a waste of time fast in that game. It doesn't help the bigger robots seem to be very long to kill, once you upgrade you'll probably kill them faster but what for after the 10th similar fight?
That's the main thing game design wise I'm skeptical about.

You can ask the same for dozens of other games. The challenge and diversity will come from the area design where battles take place and the mixture of enemies (much like how a shmup can deliver drastically different battles by having different combinations of enemies)

 

[Loudninja]

Horizon is an open world game with the most push behind it, besides Zelda. And Guerrilla Games are yet to make a great game, Zelda has had a number of great games, and in general Nintentdo has more of a pedigree than Guerilla.

But make no mistake if Zelda doesn't live up to expectations, it will receive far more backlash than Horizon.

This is not true and never was true.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Horizon is an open world game with the most push behind it, besides Zelda. And Guerrilla Games are yet to make a great game, Zelda has had a number of great games, and in general Nintentdo has more of a pedigree than Guerilla.

But make no mistake if Zelda doesn't live up to expectations, it will receive far more backlash than Horizon.

Oh, so it only has to live up to 'expectations', whether it borrows from other games is not up for debate ...

 

[onemanasylum]

Horizon is an open world game with the most push behind it, besides Zelda. And Guerrilla Games are yet to make a great game, Zelda has had a number of great games, and in general Nintentdo has more of a pedigree than Guerilla.

But make no mistake if Zelda doesn't live up to expectations, it will receive far more backlash than Horizon.

KZ2 was great...and I just used Zelda as an example what about any other Open World game? Pedigree should not matter that much, many other games take standard open world formula into their games but it doesn't not get constantly brought up as a criticism.

 

[More_Badass]

Well it is true that I've been waiting for some genius to come up with a new "magic formula" to open world games that completely redefine how we think about developing meaningful content for them. Something that hasn't been seen before and will have a huge impact on the genre and shift us into a new era for open world games.I just fear that something like that would take 10 years of pure high budget prototyping before even thinking about applying it into a game...

Pretty much why we'll either never see it or it'll be an indie game. A game this big, with that kind of polish, requires a big budget and need to sell a lot to make a profit. Something like you describe is a massive risk

Although I agree. I'd love to see Warren Spector make his One City Block immersive sim

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Fucking amazing that is is a carbon copy thread of the preview thread

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I mean you could have a situation where you break off a part of one of the smaller robots and it turns into some kind of hand gun or drops grenades depending or what kind of weapon said robot uses. Or you could break off one of those bull-looking things's horns and use it as a melee weapon. Stuff like that. That's the kind of stuff that I though we'd see more of.

I understand what you mean .
Still with her having so many types of arrows some of that might feel redundant .
With how easy it is to kill the smaller ones ( 1 or 2 hits in the eye) or with you able to hack them .

Pretty much why we'll either never see it or it'll be an indie game. A game this big, with that kind of polish, requires a big budget and need to sell a lot to make a profit. Something like you describe is a massive risk

Although I agree. I'd love to see Warren Spector make his One City Block immersive sim

I don't think we will ever see it since everything has been done in one way or the other .
Not talking about open world games only .

 

[Ghostmaster]

I never said they don't make good games, there is a difference between a great game and a good game. And metacritic is a useless measure for that.

Make a thread on Gaf with a poll between best of Zelda games and best of Guerilla games and see which one wins. Make a thread between Call of Duty 4 and Killzone 2, Half Life 2 and Killzone 2, hell Portal 2 and Killzone 2 and most likley Killzone will lose all of those. Killzone is still a weaker Sony franchise than the Santa Monica or Naughty Dog ones, there is a reason why Guerrilla decided on a clean slate for Horizon.

Oh, so it only has to live up to 'expectations', whether it borrows from other games is not up for debate ...

Zelda will always get more of a pass than Guerilla, I never said it is fair but it is true.

KZ2 was great...and I just used Zelda as an example what about any other Open World game? Pedigree should not matter that much, many other games take standard open world formula into their games but it doesn't not get constantly brought up as a criticism.

A lot of open-world games face criticism nowadays, the reason why Horizon is getting the brunt of it is because it is being pushed hard by Sony and is thus more visible to people. Mafia 3 was heavily criticezed for its boring open world, Mad Max as well. Even Shadow of Mordor, it just coasted along thanks to its Nemesis system.

 

[ekim]

You can ask the same for dozens of other games. The challenge and diversity will come from the area design where battles take place and the mixture of enemies (much like how a shmup can deliver drastically different battles by having different combinations of enemies)

I always feel the sense of getting more powerful is the main thing that keeps me going with action based games. I loved Prototype and Sunset Overdrive for the sheer satisfaction when you can mow through the enemies or can approach in a wholly different way by getting a new skill or weapon.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

But what feels fresh from Horizon is its combat in the sense how you have to trap, pursue, flee and prepare for each combat scenario. You have to leverage your resources to your advantage to take down key parts of these robots in order to make the fight more manageable. What other game aside from Monster Hunter is doing that?

That's unique enough imo.

Hey, I feel ya. I think it is more about making something unique with its own identity more than creating things completely and utterly original now. It is just far too difficult to do the latter given the incalculable amount of creation in console gaming from the start of it to now.

People have their expectations and desires though and I guess it isn't enough for Horizon to have a unique aesthetic and a fresh take on open world/WRPG combat.

 

[Elfstruck]

Fucking amazing that is is a carbon copy thread of the preview thread

LOL, pretty much.

 

[onemanasylum]

Fucking amazing that is is a carbon copy thread of the preview thread

The Review thread gun be good.

 

[Garland7G]

Is there a place to watch the stream aside from their twitch channel? For some reason it just loads forever, no matter which video I choose to view :/

 

[Shredderi]

Pretty much why we'll either never see it or it'll be an indie game. A game this big, with that kind of polish, requires a big budget and need to sell a lot to make a profit. Something like you describe is a massive risk

Although I agree. I'd love to see Warren Spector make his One City Block immersive sim

Yep I am well aware. I just always have this knawing feeling, even with Horizon that we haven't seen the full potential of open world design. Like we need that "over the shoulder" moment for open world games in general.

 

[ekim]

Pretty much why we'll either never see it or it'll be an indie game. A game this big, with that kind of polish, requires a big budget and need to sell a lot to make a profit. Something like you describe is a massive risk

Although I agree. I'd love to see Warren Spector make his One City Block immersive sim

That would be my dream game. How did that one second part succeed in its crowdfunding? (Forgot the name, something with Tower; this was my main gripe with the game, the name)

 

[Loudninja]

Is there a place to watch the stream aside from their twitch channel? For some reason it just loads forever, no matter which video I choose to view :/

youtube link in the op.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Now I need to see this too haha.

Got ya covered!

If anybody needs a gif from this gameplay, I got the video to make the gifs.

 

[ironcreed]

Killzone 2 is godly.