Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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Dahbomb said:
You already know what's going to happen.

You will face 5 Druids in a row dropping like 6 taunts. You put in Black Knight and you face against Rogues/Warriors all day.
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Too true. Pretty much the only reason why I'm not doing it.

Edit: Also can I just say, fuck Rogue. Easily the best class in Hearthstone with way too much versatility.
 
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Dominion has a bunch of cards affecting other players, the funny part about dominion is that the best strategy is buy only coins and points.
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False. There's nuance to the game and gold/vp only is rarely the best strat after the base game.

Strategy depends on the kingdom cards, but first gold => province, then duchy when 5 or fewer provs is the benchmark to beat.

I usually only play 2-player, so there's even less interaction and just pure strategy execution.
 
Trump thinks Jade cards should be nerfed in the future rotation to prevent them from stifling the meta especially other control decks post rotation.

Mainly Jade Idol and Jade Claws but maybe also Aya Blackpaw.

Already see a bunch of people taking to reddit to complain about Jade Idol LOL!
 
Jade Idol should absolutely see a nerf in my opinion. Just what it does against control and into fatigue isn't really acceptable, even more so because Auctioneer is staying around.

Don't really agree with Jade Claws though. Jade Lightning getting an overload on it is an idea I've seen thrown around and it at least seems reasonable.
 
Dahbomb said:
Trump thinks Jade cards should be nerfed in the future rotation to prevent them from stifling the meta especially other control decks post rotation.

Mainly Jade Idol and Jade Claws but maybe also Aya Blackpaw.

Already see a bunch of people taking to reddit to complain about Jade Idol LOL!
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Idol should be nerfed to 2 mana at the VERY least. Arguably make it shuffle 2 instead of 3.

Claws and Aya are probably fine as is, honestly.
 
joelseph said:
Those are all great things Gwent has going for it. What I personally don't like about Gwent is it is very linear. You have a small deck and typically will only draw half your cards. From the cards you draw, you only interact with each one once. Your decision point is in what order to play the card and where. Once it is on the board there is no more decision points for how to use the card. This type of strategy works better in boardgames where both sides have exactly or very similar card sets. Or you have some working knowledge set of what you are up against. I don't think Condotierre had any aspect of collectible card games when Gwent borrowed it's gameplay mechanics.
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I'm don't think that's very accurate/fair; just because you don't directly attack or defend with your cards like in traditional CCGs doesn't mean you don't interact with or make decisions about your cards after you're played them. The continued presence of cards on the Gwent board lends itself to obvious multi-turn interactions with all the various systems, abilities, and mechanics the game has. Gwent just happens to share strong elements from games like poker where a significant portion of the strategy layer is based on card abstractions and the sequential nature of player actions. Is it really different decision-making? Absolutely. Are they inherently less strategic or meaningful decisions? Not at all.

To your other points, most Gwent decks are about 25-30 cards, which is basically the same as Hearthstone. And if you've properly designed your deck with thinning mechanics, you're probably going to use/draw closer to 2/3rds of your deck, which is again comparable to Hearthstone. And just like how Hearthstone or any other CCG works, if you want to be good you have to have a working knowledge of the entire card pool (Gwent actually has a relatively small card pool too). It's not substantively different from the rest of the genre in these respects.

As for interaction points, let's remember that just because you can attack/defend with minion cards doesn't mean you're actually making strategic decisions when you do so. Pirate Warrior and Face Hunter already know what they're going to be doing with their minions before the game even starts; it's not a strategic decision-point to go face. Conversely, just because a deck like freeze mage only interacts with their cards once doesn't mean they aren't making compelling strategic decisions about when and how to use their cards.
 
BananasWithGuns said:
Too true. Pretty much the only reason why I'm not doing it.

Edit: Also can I just say, fuck Rogue. Easily the best class in Hearthstone with way too much versatility.
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er yeah maybe in a World where there is no Shaman with their vast array of polymorphs, heals, burst heals (Hallazeal), taunts, massive AoE, etc. Valeera would swoon if she could do literally anything like Thrall
 
squidyj said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/5z64do/debunking_the_jade_druid_myth/
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We've had this card before and no one complained about it. Justicar in Paladin meant all you had to do was heropower versus a CW and it was a guaranteed win. Entomb versus Warrior also let the Control Priest vs. Control Warrior matchup be heavily favoured for the priest.
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Made up Hearthstone history is my favorite. I also love the cited stats proving how good Jade Druid is against the Reno/Control decks.
 
dimb said:
Made up Hearthstone history is my favorite. I also love the cited stats proving how good Jade Druid is against the Reno/Control decks.
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I played Justicar as paladin against control warrior back in the day. It's not jade idol but it decided the match every time I played it.

I don't think you understand the point, it's not actually a problem for jade druid to be good against control decks. jade druid is not and likely will never be dominant because it has counters.
 
Paladin with Justicar isn't in the same league as Jade Idol.

Jade Idol is on the caliber of having Jaraxus hero power in the late game at one mana. The tempo gains in the late game are unmatchable, it puts a clock on the game and is a one card win condition.

With Paladin you are putting out small minions that won't be contested by bigger threats. Yeah Paladin is going to win against pure fatigue Warrior but not against Control decks with large threats just with that card. I don't lose against Paladin using my Renolock even if they have Justicar hero power.

Yeah it's "infinite" value but it's not pushing nearly as much pressure as Jade Idol in the late game.


And a lot of the concern about Jade decks come from it's potential to bury control decks in the new standard rotation. Not all hate against it is put against it in the current meta.


As far as the "control decks should have a counter" statement is concerned... what game are we playing here? I thought we were playing Hearthstone where control decks have NEVER been unbeatable/uncounterable or straight up the best deck in the game. Control decks always have had counters, it's called sticky midrange decks and combo decks. Jades are just another layer of extreme counter put on control decks.

Meanwhile aggro/curve decks carry on their business with limited counters.
 
Dahbomb said:
Paladin with Justicar isn't in the same league as Jade Idol.

Jade Idol is on the caliber of having Jaraxus hero power in the late game at one mana. The tempo gains in the late game are unmatchable, it puts a clock on the game and is a one card win condition.

With Paladin you are putting out small minions that won't be contested by bigger threats. Yeah Paladin is going to win against pure fatigue Warrior but not against Control decks with large threats just with that card. I don't lose against Paladin using my Renolock even if they have Justicar hero power.

Yeah it's "infinite" value but it's not pushing nearly as much pressure as Jade Idol in the late game.


And a lot of the concern about Jade decks come from it's potential to bury control decks in the new standard rotation. Not all hate against it is put against it in the current meta.


As far as the "control decks should have a counter" statement is concerned... what game are we playing here? I thought we were playing Hearthstone where control decks have NEVER been unbeatable/uncounterable or straight up the best deck in the game. Control decks always have had counters, it's called sticky midrange decks and combo decks. Jades are just another layer of extreme counter put on control decks.

Meanwhile aggro/curve decks carry on their business with limited counters.
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No one said justicar is the same power level as jade idol....
 
Mobius and pet octopus said:
No one said justicar is the same power level as jade idol....
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Now to the aspect of Jade Idol being a single card which oppresses the Control Warrior archetype. We've had this card before and no one complained about it.
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A direct comparison was made by that Reddit user and I was addressing that. It may not be suggesting that it's on the same power level but just because something like this existing was "ok" before doesn't mean it's ok in a different package.
 
Dahbomb said:
A direct comparison was made by that Reddit user and I was addressing that. It may not be suggesting that it's on the same power level but just because something like this existing was "ok" before doesn't mean it's ok in a different package.
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You should actually address what he said then. He did not say they are the same power level. He said counters similar to it existed before.

edit:

"Now to the aspect of Jade Idol being a single card which oppresses the Control Warrior archetype. We've had this card before and no one complained about it. Justicar in Paladin meant all you had to do was heropower versus a CW and it was a guaranteed win."

This is what he said. Context matters here because he is talking about a justicar only as it applies to control warrior.
 
Always find it funny how you go on a 3-4 game win streak and suddenly every opponent you face starts drawing out of their mind.

Edit: Well, Black Knight tech won me my first game. Doesn't seem bad right now with all the Druids and Dragons.

Edit2: Rank 5 done, bring on Un'Goro.
 
LyleLanley said:
All I know about Jade Idol is that when it's played I feel like I'm getting kicked right in the dick. It just sucks the fun out of a match.
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squidyj said:
sounds like a you problem.
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No, I agree with LL. Whether it's "fair" or not, or whether you can squeak out a win against it with control, playing against Jade Idol just isn't fun. Not only is it "infinite value," but it requires some thoughtful play and luck to beat with control, and is a brainless card for the one using it.

If I were to nerf it, I'd probably just give it a Prince Malchezar effect, where it shuffles two additional copies of it into your deck to start a match. And remove the ability to shuffle more, obviously.
 
So many zoo and pirate. I can't even play anything other than jade shaman, or i'd be dead by turn 6/7. Still need another 500 gold to reach 4k, blizzard pls.
 
Mage's archetype post-rotation will probably be secrets-based, probably with a Quest that requires you to play X number of secrets. Still getting 40 gold quests btw.
 
Made it to around rank 10 this month with my current Warlock deck. 3 out of my last 4 games were pirate warrior.

I went 1-2.

I also went 1st once and 2nd twice.

Basically I'm SOL if I go 2nd now it appears.
 
Reveal in 3 days? No expectations.
 
Xanathus said:
Might as well make another prediction, Doomsayer comes back into the meta after rotation for mid-range and control decks.
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I mean, he's been in the meta ever since last rotation. Once Naxx rotated out it opened up a lot of space for him.
 
Paladin legendary being some random dinosaur is pretty concerning. Un'goro is a really limited palette for ideas and I'm not seeing how they really branch out inside it yet.
 
ZealousD said:
I mean, he's been in the meta ever since last rotation. Once Naxx rotated out it opened up a lot of space for him.
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I wasn't thinking of Reno decks when I thought of Doomsayer no longer being in the meta, I was thinking more along the lines of how midrange Hunter had to play it for early game.
 
Xanathus said:
I wasn't thinking of Reno decks when I thought of Doomsayer no longer being in the meta, I was thinking more along the lines of how midrange Hunter had to play it for early game.
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Midrange Hunter tried it post rotation during Old Gods but eventually dropped it later because people were undervaluing Huge Toad.

The kind of slow midrange and control decks that aren't Reno that would run Doomsayer just aren't in the meta right now. It's not that Doomsayer is a poor choice in those decks.
 
A Paladin beast? Interesting. Wonder if they are going to push the Menagerie decks for Pally. They already have decent Murlocs and Dragons.
 
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