[Digital Foundry] Marvel's Spider-Man 2 PS5 Showcase Trailer Tech Breakdown
Mr.Phoenix
Member
They didn't say they were underwhelmed though.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
It's not necessarily true for all games, I was talking about Star Wars specifically since the person I replied to said they had only seen the game in videos. Why don't you pop Spiderman 2 (Insomniac) in your PS5 and tell me how it looks compared to the showcase demo.I mean, you said it. Games look much better on your local 4K set with HDR and all the trimmings versus a video. But, oh you knowwwww!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You seem to have it all figured out. To the point of bringing up a game you can view in person, to one you can't. One that also has performance issues with half the scale.It's not necessarily true for all games, I was talking about Star Wars specifically since the person I replied to said they had only seen the game in videos. Why don't you pop Spiderman 2 (Insomniac) in your PS5 and tell me how it looks compared to the showcase demo.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
You're the one bringing scale into the argument. This thread was about visuals.You seem to have it all figured out. To the point of bringing up a game you can view in person, to one you can't. One that also has performance issues with half the scale.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Big oof. Reverting back to OG PS4 quality water is now considered an upgrade. Good catch.The water is only improved compared to the remaster and Miles, which where both downgraded compared to the og game. The og game had literally the same water rendering as SM2 just without the RT reflections.
vs
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You literally shifted the goalpost by bringing up, "but but it looks better in person on your HDR set." In a thread, analyzing a video.You're the one bringing scale into the argument. This thread was about visuals.
But, some things never change.
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nowhat
Member
I think it's quite telling that at least previously DF have been able to do reliable pixel counts of recent Insomiac games only whenever there's a camera cut, and analyzing the very first frame after the cut. Once there are two frames to work with the "temporal injection" kicks in, making pixels counts very hard if not impossible.
(Insomniac, if you're listening - I'm still waiting for a GDC talk on TI, would love to learn how it actually works.)
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
Yes, as a reply to someone who literally asked if Star Wars Jedi Survivor looks better in person compared to what they had seen in online videos. I can't make the same judgement with Spiderman 2 until that game releases.You literally shifted the goalpost by bringing up, "but but it looks better in person on your HDR set."
saintjules
Member
What is keeping devs from maximizing PS5's full potential? Is it the lack of technical skill or is the PS5 still not powerful enough to do dynamic 4k to the highest level?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yes, as a reply to someone who literally asked if Star Wars Jedi Survivor looks better in person compared to what they had seen in online videos. I can't make the same judgement with Spiderman 2 until that game releases.
GymWolf
Member
Their games are way smaller than the other sony games, that's why.
Make em do an open world as big as horizon or a "linear" game like ragnarock and see how 3 years are not gonna be enough.
Spidey was one of the smallest open world out there, morales is a 8 hours campaign and ratchet was like what? 10 hours at best?
I have more than 100 hours on both ragnarock and horizon, probably no more than 50 between spidey, morales and ratchet combined.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
The game can definitely run at native 4K on current hardware, but it would mean losing all or most ray-tracing features.
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 trailer impresses - but is it a generational leap?
The highlight of Sony’s 2023 PlayStation showcase was a 12-minute trailer for Marvel's Spider-Man 2 - but are the graphics enough of a leap forward?www.eurogamer.net
00:00 Overview
00:55 Asset upgrades and water rendering
05:02 Character switching
05:50 Other visual features
10:05 Conclusion and analysis
TL;DW: Iterative upgrade. Just another enhanced PS4 game.
You realize that only makes SM2 even more disappointing, no?
In previous generations, new consoles had completely different hardware which forced devs to create new engines from scratch. PS5 and Xbox Series can run previous engines fine with no modifications whatsoever.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
If I compared Star Wars Jedi Survivor YouTube videos to the Spiderman 2 showcase demo video, my opinion would remain the same.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, no shit. Selectively so.
saintjules
Member
Gotcha. If ray tracing is at all important to achieve the vision, then maybe Pro model could aid in that perhaps? It's just interesting to see that there is a struggle with all these game in terms of performance lately.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's both. PS5's raw tflops upgrade is roughly 5x. 8x if you count IPC gains. PS4 games were already 1080p 30 fps. If you want to run those games at native 4k, you would need a 7.2 tflops system. Sometimes less, sometimes more depending on CPU, VRAM bandwidth and other factors. But if you are wasting 4x the GPU on just rendering 4k pixels, you are simply leaving yourself with very little to do anything else. there is a reason why the very first UE5 demo on PS5 targetted 1440p 30 fps. Epic straight up came out and said hardware lumes is 1080p 30 fps on consoles, 1440p is for software lumens.
Secondly, there is definitely a brain drain in the industry. A lot of the good talent has left these studios. Sony Bend's director said that 90 employees from days gone have left the studio. That studio had just 100-120 devs. Jason wrote an article about how ND was burning through talent losing almost 70% of the non-lead designers while developing TLOU2. It's also possible that Epic with their fortnite money took all the best engine devs from Insmoniac and other first party studios leaving these studios scrambling to add nanite, lumens and other insane upgrades we have seen Epic provide in the UE5 suite.
Insomniac is a big studio but most of those 500 devs arent your engine geeks. they are your designers and artists who rely upon the engineers to give them the tools. Epic has probably 500-1000 devs just working on engine upgrades. Just look at Remedy. They were boasting about how their Northlight engine can do all this fancy stuff but then the footage came out and it basically looks like the last of us. Epic is just so far ahead of the game then only Rockstar, ND and maybe some massive 2000 person ubisoft studios can come close to matching their visual standards.
01011001
Banned
it's almost like the current consoles are just enhanced Xbox One Xs...
you can only do so much with 2x the GPU power of a last gen console.
for comparison, the One X had 5x the GPU power of the One FAT
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Can I just skip to 2024 so I dont have to see these childish "game bad cuz graphics bad" replies? By that logic gaf should've given Horizon FW the biggest ass licking of all time considering the fact that it is and looks like a true next gen game and should've trashed ER for how technically garbage it is. The double/triple standards on some of the users here is just pathetic. Just enjoy the games you fucking children, no one cares if the game has more puddles.
Except now all the water is Ray Traced instead of screen spaced.
They literally explained what PS5 features it's taking use of, what is this shitpost?
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
What visual standards? UE5 has pros/cons but it's not some massive leap or even best in class
Matrix demo looks clear as mud
vaibhavpisal
Member
That Horizon is big reason why this Spiderman is in big trouble it is.
diffusionx
Gold Member
because "highest level" is a moving target, lol. This stuff is not fixed in time.
The PS5 can run a PS4 game in 4K/60fps without breaking a sweat as can be seen with many PS4 patches. It can also do it with some enhancements here and there. But now you have more stuff on screen, RT elements, higher draw distance, etc. And it turns out that a lot of the new tech is incredibly expensive to the point where Nvidia is telling people who buy a $1600 GPU to run the games with fake pixels and fake frames to get an "acceptable" performance.
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Yeah but PS4 Pro / One X games still had to be constrained to run on the base consoles. A native PS5 doesn't so the changes should be more profound.
Are you saying it's radically/fundamentally different from a PS4 game? If they removed the RT and lowered the LODs could this game not run on PS4?
saintjules
Member
Good points here. Thank you.
Kusarigama
Member
Where's
adamsapple
, it's been hours and no summary yet. Get to work mate.
adamsapple
, it's been hours and no summary yet. Get to work mate.You are the best at summarising mate, appreciate your effort.
Snake29
Banned
It'a fucking unfinished game. Why are some people here loosing their fucking minds over DF analyse? He said he couldn't even do a reliable pixelcount.
So many people here will eat crow when this game is released and looks a lot better. I mean i trust Insomniac over all Xbox devs.
Riky
$MSFT
Exactly, the GPU increase over One X is only 2x this gen but the memory and bandwith increase is far smaller than that.
That's why Jason Ronald talked about efficiency so much in his pre launch talks, he's been proven totally right.
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But why click on a thread discussing a technical/graphical breakdown of a game, if you're just going tell people they're children for discussing the technical/graphical aspects of a game? Just move past it and enjoy the game! I never understand why people feel the need to do this haha. Maybe I'm just old
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
1000% RIGHT! WTH can't these companies be smarter?
And lowered the resolution, and lowered the traversal speed, and extended loading times, and removed the additional model details in the city and only be 30fps.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Mister Wolf
Member
If you aren't using raytracing for lighting then you might as well not be using it at all.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
A certain Mr. Cerny did as well. But we lose the forest through the fanatical trees. I wonder why that is?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Bro, it uses FRS. The engine scales resolution to the load, that is the smart way of doing it.
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Except that it still has a target resolution. The point is that the target is too high and not worth it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Says who? The IQ is pristine.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The bolded is so true. And it does make me wonder if Covid has increased the brain drain in the video gaming industry. At least we still have Decima.
At the cost of looking like a cross-gen game.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Every game released so far. What does a non cress-gen game look like?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Summary
- "On the surface, same technology ... without obvious new graphical techniques"
- Building details get notable upgrade over PS4 games in terms of assets and additional details.
- Water rending has been notably improved. Better simulation and density.
- Surface also glossier and truer to life thanks to RT reflections
- Biggest game changing thing seems the ability to change between the Spider Man's on the fly
- Environmental reflections are using RT (ala 30 FPS RT modes in the older ones)
- Lighting may get improvements from probe based system
- One small visual issue, the sun seems to visibly move on the screen back and forth in a scene
- 1296 to 1872p. Similar to Fidelity mode on the original games
- 30 FPS in this demo
- "On the surface, same technology ... without obvious new graphical techniques"
- Building details get notable upgrade over PS4 games in terms of assets and additional details.
- Water rending has been notably improved. Better simulation and density.
- Surface also glossier and truer to life thanks to RT reflections
- Biggest game changing thing seems the ability to change between the Spider Man's on the fly
- Environmental reflections are using RT (ala 30 FPS RT modes in the older ones)
- Lighting may get improvements from probe based system
- One small visual issue, the sun seems to visibly move on the screen back and forth in a scene
- 1296 to 1872p. Similar to Fidelity mode on the original games
- 30 FPS in this demo
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Insomniac always has the best IQ in the world imo. But what if their games ran at 1440 native with their temporal AA magic on top? Wouldn't you think that'll look good too?