DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You just wait until how it's going to be hammered into us by a subset... for a racing game
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[Digital Foundry] Marvel's Spider-Man 2 PS5 Showcase Trailer Tech Breakdown
GymWolf
Member
Naniwhat?You just wait until how it's going to be hammered into us by a subset... for a racing game
OK.You want the console's power to be used for improving physics and animation instead of rendering. Do you mean something like this?
If so, is there any native PS5/XSX doing that?
It's like we're going in circles here:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
No, which is why they should be stepping it up in that department. The CPU/GPGPU afforded to them is there.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
But there are lots of moments you don't swing and it really looks nice. Without it the game looks even more last gen.
PixelatedBeast
Member
Got to be trolling, because that transition was never fast.....it only got faster if your characters were close. GTAV was running at sub 30 fps, at barely 900p on ps3, just starting the game took around 2 minutes and online loading is a joke......compared to Spiderman running 60 fps, with raytracing at dynamic 4k resolution and instant loading.....
You could do better than that.
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ChiefDada
Member
Wait, how would SSR work on the buildings lol!? They are reflecting back faced geometry and other assets that are completely offscreen 99% of the time. SSR would only work perpendicular surface, i.e. the ground.
Which makes the much improved rt reflections seen in the gameplay trailer that much impressive. An improvement a lot of people are surprisingly not talking about here
Salty Popsicle
Banned
You thought the Spiderman 2 gameplay demo was running at 60fps?Got to be trolling, because that transition was never fast.....it only got faster if your characters were close. GTAV was running at sub 30 fps, at barely 900p on ps3, just starting the game took around 2 minutes and online loading is a joke......compared to Spiderman running 60 fps, with raytracing at dynamic 4k resolution and instant loading.....
You could do better than that.
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PixelatedBeast
Member
I know it will when it releases, so my point still stands. You're trolling to compare GTAV TO SM2.You thought the Spiderman 2 gameplay demo was running at 60fps?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He trolls every Sony game thread. Always has, and always will.
Some things never change.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
The only part I was comparing was the ability to switch between characters in an open world with a simple controller prompt. Not sure why that offended you.
Also, there probably will be a 60fps mode, but at the cost of some of those lauded ray-tracing effects and resolution. There is always a sacrifice.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If we strip all context and nuance of the argument down in a vacuum, we can always win!
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Made an excerpt of the video I linked in the previous page:
Quake 3 already had stencil shadows and some form of bump mapping but without appropriate content to show it off it looked like a meager iterative improvement over Quake 2 to the average gamer. It took artists with vision to create content that really showcases what that tech could be pushed to do:
Quake 3 already had stencil shadows and some form of bump mapping but without appropriate content to show it off it looked like a meager iterative improvement over Quake 2 to the average gamer. It took artists with vision to create content that really showcases what that tech could be pushed to do:
So you see, we actually agree in principle.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If I add a funny gif I win.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I have a love hate relationship with RT. On one hand, is the massive hit on the GPU just for reflections worth it? Obviously not especially when RT has a huge hit on cpu AND vram. Like 1 whole GB, sometimes 1.5 GB that needs to be in vram even when there are no reflective areas on the scene. Thats resources that could be used elsewhere.
On the other hand, 'some' games in some areas can completely change the visual makeup. Spiderman Miles and the OG spiderman remake have indoor areas that look far more detailed because of those added reflections.
But outdoors? Meh. You can easily fake that stuff from a distance. Maybe they can be smart about it and only change to RT reflections when you get close to them, but it's not like we are getting these fantastic mirror reflections on buildings anyway. See Spiderman 3 below.
What they are doing is very low res and honestly just a waste of precious GPU resources that should go into upgrading it so we dont have people crying diminishing returns while ignoring they wasted 75% of the GPU pushing pixels and RT.
This is from spiderman 1 on PS4 and reflections look great. who gives a shit if spiderman doesnt get reflected? looks fantastic regardless.
P.S As the resident puddlegate truther, I would welcome full RT on PC ports or even in mid gen refreshes. Just dont use waste this stuff on base consoles. 10 tflops is clearly not enough to push visuals, resolution and RT. you will have to make sacrifices.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
I think the obsession with making every game look as realistic as possible is a detriment to progress visually. Imagine what a Spiderman game using comic-book art render would look like on modern hardware.
ChiefDada
Member
I think the obsession with making every game look as realistic as possible is a detriment to progress visually. Imagine what a Spiderman game using comic-book art render would look like on modern hardware.
Funny enough I've been dreaming/wishing that they somehow include this aesthetic as a mini game over the past couple weeks.
Crayon
Member
I thought it had a chance to be visually crushing but it's just nice. Better looking than most games anyway, but still disheartening. The expectations were for insonmiac to lead the way on next gen graphics but if this is any indication, it's going to be a slow march to something that really blows away what we have today. And that means it will be gradual progression so numb nuts will say this looks like a ps2 game by then.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
The closest thing we got was Ultimate Spiderman back in 2005. Imagine this aesthetic but with 18 years of graphical advancement.
mansoor1980
Member
they are confident
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
This isn't a restaurant.
Kvally
Member
Exactly why I am in awe when I play Hi-Fi Rush. I love the comic book art.I think the obsession with making every game look as realistic as possible is a detriment to progress visually. Imagine what a Spiderman game using comic-book art render would look like on modern hardware.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
I've asked this same question yesterday to one my buddies who is working as a render engineer for a well known AAA studio, and he told me that he expects a 60FPS mode to run around 1080p with RT since it's not a generational leap over Spider-Man Remastered. Hope this helps.
GymWolf
Member
But there are lots of moments you don't swing and it really looks nice. Without it the game looks even more last gen.
I just think that if you have to sacrifice something, it must be something that you barely notice most of the time in such an high speed game, of course there are slower moments, but most of the time you web sling or fight and you barely notice the reflections if they look wonky.
I think that a better light system or better textures overall are just something that make a bigger difference at any given moment.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
This my biggest reason why I cant get excited for "next gen" graphics as much as other people because its only going towards one direction, towards realism.
What am I suppose to be excited about?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol neither screenshot looks good but yes, its a minor improvement. The question we have to ask is whether or not its worth the 35% hit to GPU (if someone has spiderman here on PC, they can tell us the exact figure) and the cost on the cpu and having the vram hold the BVH structure data at all times even when there is nothing to reflect. see the vram issues that plagued the PC version of RE4.But there are lots of moments you don't swing and it really looks nice. Without it the game looks even more last gen.
regardless, those are really poor reflections by insomniac. last gen consoles do way better reflections than that. Insomniac just made 'smart cuts' to increase visual fidelity elsewhere. something they have failed to do this time around. I dont know if they did it because of GPU resources or manpower but I can show you several last gen games with better reflections without needing RT. Hell, see the gif above. the reflections in even spiderman 1 are fine unless you really stop to take a look.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I havnt watched or looked at replies but I can tell you they're going to be SOFT. DF is ALWAYS flaccid on these hyped games.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
I'm expecting a 60fps RT mode just like before, I don't care about the native resolution as much as the result on screen, we live in an image reconstruction world.
Lokaum D+
Member
"regardless, those are really poor reflections by insomniac. last gen consoles do way better reflections than that. Insomniac just made 'smart cuts' to increase visual fidelity elsewhere. something they have failed to do this time around. I dont know if they did it because of GPU resources or manpower but I can show you several last gen games with better reflections without needing RT. Hell, see the gif above. the reflections in even spiderman 1 are fine unless you really stop to take a look."
thats the most idiotic thing i read today
HZD Amazing reflections
Infamous Second Son God Like Reflections ( Infamous with RT would be an amazing upgradre )
thats the most idiotic thing i read today
HZD Amazing reflections
Infamous Second Son God Like Reflections ( Infamous with RT would be an amazing upgradre )
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
You're wrong. Rational people praised Returnal with it's 1080p base resolution, for having excellent image quality. That refutes your claim right there.
The reason people bag on Jedi Survivor is because of its bad iq. Sure they'll cite the low base resolution to support that but the reason is the soft iq and artifact ridden image caused by implementing FSR 2 with such a low native resolution.
PS- jedi Survivors iq is not only poor in performance mode. Fidelity leaves a lot to be desired at times too.
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3liteDragon
Member
They know what they're doing, those screens are definitely from a later build of the game. We'll see who ends up taking the L when the game's out lol.
nowhat
Member
You don't have to imagine it, Miles Morales already does it. There's a Spider-verse costume that animates at 12fps and also... suit addons? plug-ins? Can't remember what they're called in the game, but at any rate, you can also get these great "poof"/"oof" cartoon speech bubbles while beating up baddies.
This doesn't affect the rest of the game, granted, but if Insomniac would like to make it the prevalent art style, they have already done much of the work.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Bring on the Pro.
FalsettoVibe
Member
This. I'm sure the game will look great at launch. All I need is 1440p scaled up to 4k/60fps (no raytracing) and I'm groovy.
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sendit
Member
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Snake29
Banned
You really need go play some games and relax if this first unfinished game trailer already makes you lose your mind. Insomniac already stated it was an old build. And then what...it already looked better then what the competition has released for the last decade.
The initial teaser/trailer from Horizon Call of the Mountain looked blurry compared to the latest trailer and launch trailer. It was almost a day and night difference.
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ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
I just find it strange how people on either side can't seem to bridge the gap in their minds.
Should we expect Matrix level visuals in the top open world games at acceptable resolutions and framerates this gen? No. But at the same time, we can and should expect them to look better than Spider-Man 2, and by a decent margin. There's somewhere in the middle that can't be that hard to picture.
Speaking for myself though, I don't think this game looks adequately next gen. I wasn't expecting a massive graphics boost, though I must say I was expecting better than this at this point in development. The thing that really rubs me the wrong way is the gameplay. Yes, Spider-Man 2018 was a great moment-moment gameplay experience, but the restrictions of PS4 hardware and it being Insomniac's first time at a Spider-Man game, or really any action game focused on CQC were obvious. But they've not taken advantage of anything beyond the speed of traversal.
We're still going to be chucking sewer lids and car doors instead of throwing cars. We're still going to be isolating single targets in the air instead of using it as it's own plane of combat. We're still fighting 10 man squads of standard thugs with color coded combat vests who can only throw one punch or stand and shoot in 10 second intervals instead of fighting hordes of super-powered freaks who can match Spider-Man's strength and speed. We're still going to chase vehicles with no interaction other than pressing circle for to clunkily dodge shots zeroed in at the head no matter the speed or positioning of the player, and then pressing triangle to stop it in a canned animation; instead of pursuing that vehicle anyway you please, webbing it to buildings or just punching through it.
Uncharted and TLOU got serious gameplay upgrades with the new gen, and I expected that here. There's even less excuse not to push on that front with a rather mediocre graphics showcase. I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm looking to Wolverine for any of this stuff now. Clearly, Insomniac's not ready to leave behind the bones of a PS4 game with this sequel.
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Spyxos
Member
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Skifi28
Member
If there's one studio that has proven it can do it, it's Insomniac. I'm sure there'll be some concessions, but the RT performance mode in both Miles and Rachet was insanely well done.
30 fps and RT obviously doable, but 60 and RT, that's very unlikely.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Considering how much money ER made, their next game better not use the same fucking trash engine.
Spyxos
Member
Yes, I know it works there, but to expect it again and this time in not a crossgame game can only lead to dissapointment. Ratchet and Clank had only Rt in 30 Fps mode if i remember correctly.
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Physiognomonics
Member
Spider-man 1 is very similar to this and does RT in a open-world city at usually 80-90fps.
30 fps and RT obviously doable, but 60 and RT, that's very unlikely.
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Spyxos
Member
What?
Skifi28
Member
It was added after launch. 60fps with RT and a dynamic 1440p like Miles. It was crazy good.
Spyxos
Member
Uff missed that.