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[Vane_MagicCity]

Probably not. The point is the IR aiming has long been the best thing about the Wiimote, so it's removal in favor of MotionZpus' inferior implementation hurt the gem significantly.

Well, is there anything that WM+ does in SS that cannot be done on the Move?

 

[marc^o^]

This controller was needed for traditionnal multiplayer games, ie 4 players version of Fifa 13.

About the Move/M+ discussion, now Wii U has a camera I wonder how easy it would be for Nintendo to plug a glowing ball on its wiimote and copy how Move works.

 

[StevieP]

It would be foolish to throw PC into the mix. Let's do it anyway though, just for you.

"Why should I buy Skyrim on the WiiU when it runs like a fuckin' dream on PC, has hi-res textures and mods."

See, we really shouldn't compare the PC version to console versions because the difference is so great that the question even becomes pointless.

So then why are we bothering to buy multiplatform games on consoles at all?

Also, the Wiimote is far from perfect as a pointing device, sunlight drives the pointer crazy. I have never played an FPS on the Wii but I have used the pointer for Zelda TP, it was ok but more hassle than it was worth. I didn't have to close the curtains when I was playing the Gamecube version of TP.

The pointer wasn't worth the hastle on Zelda TP? We must've been playing 2 different Zelda games. IR was, by far, the best thing about the Wii Remote. It made FPS on consoles playable, especially for someone who plays most of them on PC. Playing FPS games on dual-analog in comparison is like trying to play a twitch platformer on an iPad.

 

[branny]

If they were farther out they'd be outside of the natural arc of the thumb's range of motion. Method in the madness.

I think he is a little confused and was referring to the main controller. If he was then I'd agree with him. They should put the +&- back under the screen and give the thing 6 real face buttons... even if they're just mirror +&- in most games.

[edit] not confused... just annoying... I still like my idea.

Maybe I'm just looking at it weird.

It isn't as bad as trying to reach the face buttons on a 3DS with the Frankenstick attached, but it looks like it'll be a pain for someone with small hands. I can't imagine playing a game that would require me to press R3 repeatedly in order to attack on a PS3 controller, for example. The location just seems awkward.

The Start buttons on OG Xbox controllers, NES controllers, PSPs, etc. are within your thumb's natural range of motion, but they're not exactly where I'd want important buttons located.

I'm really hoping it isn't uncomfortable, though.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm willing to accept that even though the WM+ takes away a layer of abstraction between player and game, that you're still going to be limited by both design and technical proficiency.

I let my muscles tell me what worked, and played the game accordingly. This is not meant to be a judgement on other players. Just how it worked for me.

Fair enough. Sounds like we're in the same boat... but for me it just worked.

It's not just the "layer of abstraction" though, although that's part of it.. the angle of attack provided with the Wii motion+ allowed for a type of gameplay that actually was not possible with an analog stick. Nintendo would have never done "attack angle" puzzles and enemies by pushing directions on an analog stick... and more to the point, I wanted to see what other developers with more hardcore sensibilities would have done.

I want a hardcore game where you parry/block someone's attacks (sword or fist) with the correct directional response. Some sort of analog stick or button parrying solution would feel like a puzzle or rhythm game... and it would be clumsy and limited... but with a Wiimotion + or move controller, it would feel more like real martial arts, the kind of intense back and forth gaming that actually gets the heart pumping and thrills observers.

 

[Instro]

They insisted on putting half of a DSi/3DS into this controller and as a result it's just too expensive. Very few people would buy 3 extra ones so Nintendo knows they have to bring in a cheaper alternative and then to make it impossible to use 4 Upads so no one feels they need to buy 3 extra ones.

It's a mess really but Nintendo doesn't always make the best design choices. Look at the design problems of the 3DS.

Well no...the WiiU doesn't support 4 GamePads. This is a necessary step for multiplayer games.

Well, is there anything that WM+ does in SS that cannot be done on the Move?

No.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well, is there anything that WM+ does in SS that cannot be done on the Move?

Not one thing.

You could probably have more in-depth and accurate motions (not that I thought SS was iffy) just because of the increase in hardware power.

 

[Holy Wars]

Well, is there anything that WM+ does in SS that cannot be done on the Move?

I have little experience with Move, so no idea.

 

[BocoDragon]

I think you missed the point. If the controls aren't worth the hassle now, they will not be in 10 years either.

Maybe in your world. 3.5 million people bought Skyward Sword, many enjoyed it, and it will be just as playable and re-playable in 10 years.

It's biggest problems are inherent to all modern Zelda games (handholding ugh)

 

[Kapura]

Since when has adding features to a controller been a bad thing?

Shoulder buttons, a second analog stick, the digital buttons under those sticks all completely superfluous controller additions. Until they found appropriate use.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. All of those things seem like fairly natural extensions of the controllers. But there have been changes to controllers which seemed odd and ended up not surviving the generation: N64's triple action, Gamecube's godawful button layout (and the ambiguity of x and y), Xbox's black and white buttons... All of these things were extensions to the controller paradigm which weren't great improvements.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

So then why are we bothering to buy multiplatform games on consoles at all?




The pointer wasn't worth the hastle on Zelda TP? We must've been playing 2 different Zelda games. IR was, by far, the best thing about the Wii Remote. It made FPS on consoles playable, especially for someone who plays most of them on PC. Playing FPS games on dual-analog in comparison is like trying to play a twitch platformer on an iPad.

PC is always going to beat consoles. If you are going to throw PC's into the mix then don't even bother making a comparison.

It's ok (for most of us) to compare console to console without bringing in the far superior PC. Let me ask you this, would you even bother to compare a Ford to a Ferrari? You see how such a comparison would be pointless?

I played TP on both the Gamecube and the Wii. Did you?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

If some third party is too lazy to put any gamepad functionality into their Wii U port then I'm not going to buy it anyway.

it won't matter if the Wii U is just a weak console in everyone's mind when compared to the new stock of consoles anyway

there seems to be some strong why even bother feelings going on here.

Nintendo has to prove why you would need any game on the WiiU when there are so much more on other stronger platforms, this is real. That is the question the core is asking... Nintendo cannot continue to play things their way and hope everyone just follows them.

I'm hoping WiiU is not as weak as we all have been hearing. I think they have shown a lot of good changes.

 

[Holy Wars]

I don't see how the screen can be a bad thing, it's just an expensive thing and probably not worth the increased cost over, say, better hardware in the console. I don't think the baby's first tablet gimmick is going to be some mainstream attention grabber like the Wiimote.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I can imagine using this controller to play a Virtual Console game or in select local multiplayer scenarios, but it is kind of dumb the more I think about it.

What truly separates the WiiU hardware from the PS3 and the 360? The tablet controller. Nintendo first party games are the mostly likely to need it and also use it well. And if I don't plan on using the tablet controller to play my third party games then why would I buy the WiiU version of the game in the first place?

 

[Jive Turkey]

Maybe I'm just looking at it weird.

It isn't as bad as trying to reach the face buttons on a 3DS with the Frankenstick attached, but it looks like it'll be a pain for someone with small hands. I can't imagine playing a game that would require me to press R3 repeatedly in order to attack on a PS3 controller, for example. The location just seems awkward.

I'd say you're looking at it wrong. Look at the 360 pad. The stick isn't directly below the face buttons. Instead it's below and to the left. The Wii U pad simply switches those face button and stick locations. Though I agree the Wii U pad looks awkward but that's because I'm not exactly a fan of symmetrical sticks.

 

[Aru]

I hope the D-Pad is as good as the Wii CC/CCP's D-Pad, unlike the 3DS' and Wii Remote's.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Looks nice and sleek but as said before, there's definitely some potential issues with the placement of the right stick and buttons. Hoping they listen to feedback and revise it a bit about before launch.

 

[BocoDragon]

I played TP on both the Gamecube and the Wii. Did you?

Now on that point.... the Cube version with traditional controls WAS better.

The Wii version had just "waggle" (literally flailing around to accomplish what amounts to a button press).. and aiming, which is kind of disposable.

I know you weren't making this point, but since you seem to be familiar, the necessity of a Wiimote on TP and SS are two completely different beasts. The Wiimotion + let you do things on Skyward Sword that you could not do with a standard controller... but Twilight Princess really was a traditional controller game with added motion gimmicks.

 

[Satch]

Looks nice and sleek but as said before, there's definitely some potential issues with the placement of the right stick and buttons. Hoping they listen to feedback and revise it a bit about before launch.

Surely you feel the same about the Gamepad?

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Not one thing.

You could probably have more in-depth and accurate motions (not that I thought SS was iffy) just because of the increase in hardware power.

Yeah, maybe one day we'll be emulating Skyward Sword with a far superior motion controller than the WM+. Maybe then it will work better.

 

[dragonlife]

I really like the look of the controller. I'm a bit worried about the odd choice of the buttons being on the bottom and the stick being on top... I don't know how comfortable it will be.

 

[Instro]

Looks nice and sleek but as said before, there's definitely some potential issues with the placement of the right stick and buttons. Hoping they listen to feedback and revise it a bit about before launch.

Well, allegedly this went out to devs somewhat recently so who knows. It's certainly possible that some changes could still be made for those that are worried about. Hopefully there will be some hands on and we can get a better idea though.

 

[StevieP]

Now on that point.... the Cube version with traditional controls WAS better.

The Wii version had just "waggle" (literally flailing around to accomplish what amounts to a button press).. and aiming, which is kind of disposable.

I know you weren't making this point, but since you seem to be familiar, the necessity of a Wiimote on TP and SS are two completely different beasts. The Wiimotion + let you do things on Skyward Sword that you could not do with a standard controller... but Twilight Princess really was a traditional controller game with added motion gimmicks.

The flailing to replace a button press in TP was kinda shit and pointless, the IR pointing was definitely not.
If you want a better example of "waggle" (what a stupid word) there are plenty of titles that did it better than Zelda did, even near launch.

(See: sports titles that feel more natural with motions, Godfather: Blackhand Wii, Excite Truck's tilting controls, etc etc)

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Now on that point.... the Cube version with traditional controls WAS better.

The Wii version had just "waggle" (literally flailing around to accomplish what amounts to a button press).. and aiming, which is kind of disposable.

I know you weren't making this point, but since you seem to be familiar, the necessity of a Wiimote on TP and SS are two completely different beasts. The Wiimotion + let you do things on Skyward Sword that you could not do with a standard controller... but Twilight Princess really was a traditional controller game with added motion gimmicks.

Oh yeah, the waggle on TP was tolerable and sometimes even fun. I finished the game with no problems (aside from the sunlight issues). Skyward Sword, I didn't finish because the controls just didn't work well with me. Oddly enough, Wii Sports Resort works great for me.

 

[BocoDragon]

Yeah, maybe one day we'll be emulating Skyward Sword with a far superior motion controller than the WM+. Maybe then it will work better.

I think the only way to make it "work better" is to loosen the window for acceptable gestures.

I don't believe that the Wiimotion + was reporting false position values...

Oh yeah, the waggle on TP was tolerable and sometimes even fun. I finished the game with no problems (aside from the sunlight issues). Skyward Sword, I didn't finish because the controls just didn't work well with me. Oddly enough, Wii Sports Resort works great for me.

Oddly... the waggle in TP for me was "this is such a gimmick and I actually don't think it accomplishes the effect it's going for". We're coming from different places here

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yeah, maybe one day we'll be emulating Skyward Sword with a far superior motion controller than the WM+. Maybe then it will work better.

I thought it worked perfectly for what it was trying to do.

 

[Holy Wars]

I liked TP on Wii because 1) the aiming is fantastic and in 2007 really felt like a step up on what we'd had and 2) the waggle shit was a novelty and always worked without too much hassle.

SS takes motion contols, strips away the mindless fun and tries to force you to learn to use the hardware in a way the game expects.

 

[marc^o^]

I can imagine using this controller to play a Virtual Console game or in select local multiplayer scenarios, but it is kind of dumb the more I think about it.

What truly separates the WiiU hardware from the PS3 and the 360? The tablet controller. Nintendo first party games are the mostly likely to need it and also use it well. And if I don't plan on using the tablet controller to play my third party games then why would I buy the WiiU version of the game in the first place?

For the same reasons some bought a classic controller. Specific games like PES Play maker on wii allow a mix of wiimote and classic controls in multiplayer games. It's awesome and we can hope it will be generalized to more games with the tablet.

 

[Instro]

Oh yeah, the waggle on TP was tolerable and sometimes even fun. I finished the game with no problems (aside from the sunlight issues). Skyward Sword, I didn't finish because the controls just didn't work well with me. Oddly enough, Wii Sports Resort works great for me.

I think in general SS shows many of the issues inherent to the types of motion controllers out there right now.

 

[BocoDragon]

The flailing to replace a button press in TP was kinda shit and pointless, the IR pointing was definitely not.
If you want a better example of "waggle" (what a stupid word) there are plenty of titles that did it better than Zelda did, even near launch.

(See: sports titles that feel more natural with motions, Godfather: Blackhand Wii, Excite Truck's tilting controls, etc etc)

If you've been reading this whole thread... I'm defending motion controls all over the place.

IMO the only acceptable use of the word "waggle" is when you are just flailing about indiscriminately to create motion, in a place where a button press would have sufficed.

But then again, WiiSports and Mario Galaxy featured some fun examples of waggle.

You are right that IR pointing was nice. But the game wasn't designed around it. It's not crucial. Another game might be.

 

[Vinci]

I said this in the Wii U community thread: There is no reason to believe that staggered is superior to symmetrical, and I believe that even people who are antagonistic about it now will likely adapt to it within an hour of gameplay or so. No, it may not outweigh one's personal preference and years of training, but there is no inherent reason for symmetrical to be inferior. And if it bothers some of you guys that much, buy a 3rd party controller - at least one will be staggered.

 

[wonderfuldays]

Is it possible it has USB connectivity since it looks like 360pad so I can play PC games with it?
(Kind stupid question

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

What I don't understand is why they bothered making a TV Remote option. What is the point? I already have a TV remote

 

[BocoDragon]

What I don't understand is why they bothered making a TV Remote option. What is the point? I already have a TV remote

A nice one?

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't be excited by that... unless they already have a Logitech Harmony or something similar.

Seems like a nice thing to have that device, already taking up space on your coffee table, able to turn on your TV and stereo.

Actually I think all consoles should be able to turn on the TV

 

[Vinci]

What I don't understand is why they bothered making a TV Remote option. What is the point? I already have a TV remote

Because they can? Probably took them very little work to add it in.

 

[Instro]

Is it possible it has USB connectivity since it looks like 360pad so I can play PC games with it?
(Kind stupid question

Much like the DS3 it would not have driver support. Of course, someone will probably bootleg it and do it themselves as was done with DS3Tool. So, you'll probably be able to do it eventually down the line. Someone will probably get the GamePad working on a PC as well, which could be pretty cool.

 

[Emitan]

With Netflix, Amazon Instant, HBO Go, and Crunchyroll why would I ever watch TV?!

 

[Smiles and Cries]

What I don't understand is why they bothered making a TV Remote option. What is the point? I already have a TV remote

I must have it! What Miiverse are you from not to want it? :3

 

[BocoDragon]

With Netflix, Amazon Instant, HBO Go, and Crunchyroll why would I ever watch TV?!

Who said anything about Cable/Satellite?

My TV has been nothing but a game/DVD/blu-ray/netflix/pc monitor since 2003 A remote would be nice.

 

[branny]

I'd say you're looking at it wrong. Look at the 360 pad. The stick isn't directly below the face buttons. Instead it's below and to the left. The Wii U pad simply switches those face button and stick locations. Though I agree the Wii U pad looks awkward but that's because I'm not exactly a fan of symmetrical sticks.

No, you're totally right. That's actually what's worrying me. There's a difference between occasionally readjusting the camera or pressing R3 once in a while versus needing to constantly access buttons located where the right analog is. I've been sitting here poking on and around the right stick over and over in attempt to gauge what buttons would be like in that area, and it's freaking me out for some reason. Of course, that's not quite the best simulation, but whatever. :lol

edit: Using the d-pad actually works better for testing this--it's definitely a small hands thing. I feel like my thumb will fall off if I have to press forward repeatedly for hours at a time. And switching from down to up and then back to forward is making some tendon feel funny. God, I hate this controller, haha.

edit 2:

I think this one calls for a wait and see approach.

Yeah, this. I should go to sleep now.

 

[BocoDragon]

I can't figure out which of the threads would be best to post this... but this seems the most active:

I really hope Nintendo puts out native apps for iOS, Android, etc., for their Wii U social network features.

After all, Microsoft did it (at least on iOS).

 

[marc^o^]

What I don't understand is why they bothered making a TV Remote option. What is the point? I already have a TV remote

You can send content from the tablet to the TV screen. Next step is to provide interactive content on the tablet for the TV show you are watching. It makes a lot of sense to merge TV screen and gamepad screen, to offer richer experiences in terms of content (such as social comments while watching a program). Making the gamepad a TV remotes is the first step towards this vision.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

A nice one?

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't be excited by that... unless they already have a Logitech Harmony or something similar.

Seems like a nice thing to have that device, already taking up space on your coffee table, able to turn on your TV and stereo.

Actually I think all consoles should be able to turn on the TV

Well, it does the job

So who is going to switch on the Wii U in order to switch on the TV to, er, watch TV

Seriously though, isn't it a PITA to make the remote mode support all the models out there?

 

[BGBW]

Damn, the face button lettering would mess me up so bad switching back and forth between this and 360.

Blame Microsoft. They even got the colours. wrong. SNES LAYOUT 4 LYFE!

you like that Nintendo logo so much?

I have a giant A1 print out of the Nintendo logo just above my bed so it is the first thing I see when I wake up. Of course since that's also all I dream about it's not quite needed.

should have had Gamecube's buttons shape and layout

Probably wanted to reflect the WiiU Gamepad layout.

"for multi-platform games". Ports for wii-u won't take advantage of the gamepad?

They might make it so the WiiU Gamepad is still required.

Include it in the box please

if not, then don't charge more than 40 bucks for it

Yeah. Took me until earlier this yeah to get the Classic Controller (Pro). THen again there wasn't really much need for it on Wii, especially if you already had a GCN controller.

Face button placement is the most unacceptable thing I have ever seen. I try to not hate all that much, but it really will make playing games uncomfortable. Maybe I'm not giving Nintendo enough of a chance, but I remain skeptical on this.

Won't your hand simply be in the opposite position as they are on a PS controller? I think this one calls for a wait and see approach.

Yes. Yes. More excuses for developers to not utilise the unique selling point of the Nintendo console is always cool.

Makes me wonder if those IGN sources even knew about this because it does kind of counter their point and really dampens their already weak argument.

does Microsoft have sort of design patent on the controller or something like Apple has with the iPad?

why would you put the buttons there?

GCN controller?

 

[Fantastical]

You can send content from the tablet to the TV screen. Next step is to provide interactive content on the tablet for the TV show you are watching. It makes a lot of sense to merge TV screen and gamepad screen, to offer richer experiences in terms of content (such as social comments while watching a program). Making the gamepad a TV remotes is the first step towards this vision.

Impossible considering the console has no idea what you are watching.

 

[BocoDragon]

Well, it does the job

So who is going to switch on the Wii U in order to switch on the TV to, er, watch TV

Seriously though, isn't it a PITA to make the remote mode support all the models out there?

Probably not. All the manufacturers use a series of standard codes. Nintendo probably just has to check the back of one of those remote manuals and either put them in the unit, or print the same codes.

 

[marc^o^]

Impossible considering the console has no idea what you are watching.

It would just have to work like twitter.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

A nice one?

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't be excited by that... unless they already have a Logitech Harmony or something similar.

Seems like a nice thing to have that device, already taking up space on your coffee table, able to turn on your TV and stereo.

Actually I think all consoles should be able to turn on the TV

My PS3 can turn on my Sony TV. I love it and I find that I get annoyed that my Wii and 360 don't do that.

 

[Fantastical]

It would just have to work like twitter.

I don't know what you mean by this. I barely use Twitter.

 

[dwu8991]

I said this in the Wii U community thread: There is no reason to believe that staggered is superior to symmetrical, and I believe that even people who are antagonistic about it now will likely adapt to it within an hour of gameplay or so. No, it may not outweigh one's personal preference and years of training, but there is no inherent reason for symmetrical to be inferior. And if it bothers some of you guys that much, buy a 3rd party controller - at least one will be staggered.

yeah agree

mh3 which uses the camera a lot would be better of with the wii u pro controller