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[SCULLIBUNDO]

Yes you can

I find it hard to believe that you can connect a mind to another body but you cant track it.


It has nothing to do with why I hate Avatar, but well we got carried away

You got carried away. I've been trying to reel you in.

And again, it doesn't matter what you find hard to believe in this universe. They establish how the connections work in that universe and your problem is that they didn't go into even more detail as to what kind of radio signals and instruments are affected in future tech that doesn't yet exist. The point is that it doesn't matter because the characters behave logically in accordance with the rules that have been established in that universe.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Can you? Are you really now asking for the finer technological understandings of a psionic link one hundred and fifty years from now? The point is that the film goes to more than enough effort to establish the parameters as to how something in that universe works and the characters all act logically within those parameters.

Justifying it as psi is fucking dumb to begin with (lolscifi), but none of this is any kind of compelling justification for why they didn't just put tiny transmitters inside their incredibly expensive avatar investments. People do it for their fuckin' pets and shit, mang. The evil corporation colonial mustache corps also strikes me as the kind of guys who could even put a remote kill switch to turn the avatar off.

Wait why are we talking about avatar? How did I get here I'm not good at computer

 

[Salsa]

The point is that it doesn't matter because the characters behave logically in accordance with the rules that have been established in that universe.

I still believe this is the case with Prometheus, albeit not as detailed as JC tends to be with this films.

I can understand the getting lost bit, the shaw not mentioning the alien fetus bit, etc. To me they all have their rational explanation even if you go as back as to saying that having a claustrophobic in the mission would make no sense. That doesnt fall into "character not acting logically"

I get that you have a problem with those, and that's fine, but it doesnt bother me.


And the Avatar tracking thing is still a pretty bad "mistake", wether it fits in this conversation or not.


Somehow I feel this whole discussion could have easily been avoided

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Here you go, bros. Enjoy.

 

[commedieu]

Jesus christ, its not the science, or the technology. Prometheus is a bad film as far as story telling goes. THe problem isn't a single plot hole, but plot holes combined with bad characters that don't react to the story/script, horrible dialogue, and really rushed pacing. All of these things combine to make a bad story told on the screen that the audience can't relate to. Which is fine for b-grade sci-fi channel movies. But Ridley Scott had expectations *bit* higher than watching something mindless like transformers.

 

[Salsa]

Here you go, bros. Enjoy.

pft, no thanks

true story: I was gonna watch the DC of Alien before heading to bed since I had an itch for it and I hadnt seen it in a while, but now I cant because I stayed up discussing Avacrap

I hate my life

 

[maharg]

Which is fine for b-grade sci-fi channel movies. But Ridley Scott had expectations big higher than watching something mindless like transformers.

See now that's just too far.

 

[Nappuccino]

Jesus christ, its not the science, or the technology. Prometheus is a bad film as far as story telling goes. THe problem isn't a single plot hole, but plot holes combined with bad characters that don't react to the story/script, horrible dialogue, and really rushed pacing. All of these things combine to make a bad story told on the screen that the audience can't relate to. Which is fine for b-grade sci-fi channel movies. But Ridley Scott had expectations big higher than watching something mindless like transformers.

Agreed, more or less.

It isn't about character's reacting illogically. It's about characters practically not reacting at all to things. Who really cares is a claustrophobic ends up on the mission unless, when he does die, people spend more than a min going "oh shit, that was terrible."

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Here you go, bros. Enjoy.

Not part of the movie

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Not part of the movie

He's asking for explanations about how specific signals react in the environment of Pandora. This shit all comes from Cameron and informs the film. It's like asking the equivalent of 'How is Jake Sully alive if he had no parents and wasn't born? I didn't see his parents in the movie. PLOT HOLE!' Then me responding to an inane request with actual information to the pointless question and then you saying 'BUT THAT WASN'T IN THE MOVIE'

 

[Nappuccino]

He's asking for explanations about how specific signals react in the environment of Pandora. This shit all comes from Cameron and informs the film. It's like asking the equivalent of 'How is Jake Sully alive if he had no parents and wasn't born? I didn't see his parents in the movie. PLOT HOLE!' Then me responding to an inane request with actual information to the pointless question and then you saying 'BUT THAT WASN'T IN THE MOVIE'

Uh... no? Having parents is an easy base assumption to make.

The finer technical points of a fake technology are not.

Though, knowing the finer points of said fake tech doesn't not inherently make the movie better or worse (usually they'll only make it worse). In fact, I prefer sci-fi where they simply say "this is a thing, now what are the ramifications of such a thing existing." I'm not particularly interested in the minute details of a fake thing when knowing about said thing doesn't actually serve a purpose.

 

[Salsa]

He's asking for explanations about how specific signals react in the environment of Pandora. This shit all comes from Cameron and informs the film. It's like asking the equivalent of 'How is Jake Sully alive if he had no parents and wasn't born? I didn't see his parents in the movie. PLOT HOLE!' Then me responding to an inane request with actual information to the pointless question and then you saying 'BUT THAT WASN'T IN THE MOVIE'

uh what?

not at all

this thing stood out the second it happened in the movie

the moment I saw them using binoculars I thought "so you're telling me they have a link from someone's brain to another creature's body, a project that costed millions of dollars, but they cant track it or did anything in order to track it?" I just let it slide cause it barely bothered me in the overall picture. Then I thought about the vortex flux thing and thought it made 0 sense for them to be able to establish a link in order to control a creature but being unable to establish one to track it using the same technology.

the hell man, read your post again, it's not comparable with that at all. It's a completely valid argument.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

He's asking for explanations about how specific signals react in the environment of Pandora. This shit all comes from Cameron and informs the film. It's like asking the equivalent of 'How is Jake Sully alive if he had no parents and wasn't born? I didn't see his parents in the movie. PLOT HOLE!' Then me responding to an inane request with actual information to the pointless question and then you saying 'BUT THAT WASN'T IN THE MOVIE'

That was one specific question he asked, but the point he was trying to make was much more general - i.e. that the magical plot device vortex jams such and such communications but not the link to the Avatars. Why not? They never discussed psionics at any stage in the movie and this is the only thing that apparently makes use of it, so it's not something you've established in the universe. This is in fact not comparable to the analogy you've drawn since they have to summon a (really crappy) scifi conceit to make it work. Its much more akin to the bit in Empire Strikes Back where their Hyperdrive is out, but then they can fly to cloud city. They're totally shocked when the Empire tracks them there too. If it was actually within STL distance, then why were they confused? It would obviously be the only place they could have gone. Alternatively, if they used FTL to get there, then how? So the EU explains this as "Backup hyperdrive" getting them there. This technically does explain it, but it's crappy, and it's not featured in the movie.

And man, like half of this thread is people jumping on the hate train with incredibly poorly thought out "plot holes" that take less than a second of thinking to solve in your head.

 

[Salsa]

And man, like half of this thread is people jumping on the hate train with incredibly poorly thought out "plot holes" that take less than a second of thinking to solve in your head.

preach it

 

[Speedymanic]

I've always wondered, how did the facehugger not burn off Kane's face in Alien? The helmet shows clear signs of melting and yet his face is unscathed.

 

[Nappuccino]

I've always wondered, how did the facehugger not burn off Kane's face in Alien? The helmet shows clear signs of melting and yet his face is unscathed.

Perhaps, like many parasites, it helps it's host long enough to make sure it uses it. I mean, if it melted his face off, odds are it would also melt his brain which would cause the nervous system to shut off and the body to die. That wouldn't be very helpful.

So... maybe it does some facial regeneration? Or maybe it knows precisely how much acid to ooze out so as not to destroy his flesh- I mean, there was a pretty big gap between helmet and head. So odds are it melted through the helmet and immediately shut off the acid. Waited until it was ok to attach itself to his face and.... attached itself to his face.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I've always wondered, how did the facehugger not burn off Kane's face in Alien? The helmet shows clear signs of melting and yet his face is unscathed.

The Hugger can secrete acid (or it's birthing egg has acid in it), then it simply had to crush and work its way through the face plate, as soon as it reached skin it no needed the acid and attached.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

That was one specific question he asked, but the point he was trying to make was much more general - i.e. that the magical plot device vortex jams such and such communications but not the link to the Avatars. Why not? They never discussed psionics at any stage in the movie and this is the only thing that apparently makes use of it, so it's not something you've established in the universe. This is in fact not comparable to the analogy you've drawn since they have to summon a (really crappy) scifi conceit to make it work. Its much more akin to the bit in Empire Strikes Back where their Hyperdrive is out, but then they can fly to cloud city. They're totally shocked when the Empire tracks them there too. If it was actually within STL distance, then why were they confused? It would obviously be the only place they could have gone. Alternatively, if they used FTL to get there, then how? So the EU explains this as "Backup hyperdrive" getting them there. This technically does explain it, but it's crappy, and it's not featured in the movie.

And man, like half of this thread is people jumping on the hate train with incredibly poorly thought out "plot holes" that take less than a second of thinking to solve in your head.

Except - once again, it is established in the film that it doesn't jam communications at all. It distorts them. Which is why mapping doesn't work. There is reason enough for what you call a 'magical' vortex. It is a highly concentrated magnetic field as evidenced by the effects it has had on the surrounding environment.

 

[Mitama]

That movie poster is amazing!

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

That movie poster is amazing!

Makes me want a Thunderbirds style remake.

 

[Messypandas]

Prometheus > Avatar

And Prometheus is shit

 

[noah111]

Neither are shit, imo. Talk about hyperbole.

 

[daviyoung]

Prometheus > Avatar

And Prometheus is shit

Yeh but root canal > Avatar

 

[JB1981]

Can you? Are you really now asking for the finer technological understandings of a psionic link one hundred and fifty years from now? The point is that the film goes to more than enough effort to establish the parameters as to how something in that universe works and the characters all act logically within those parameters.

Now that I think about it how did Quaritch find them up there after he saw Jake's avatar on the video feed ??

 

[cloud_sleep]

uh what?

this thing stood out the second it happened in the movie

the moment I saw them using binoculars I thought "so you're telling me they have a link from someone's brain to another creature's body, a project that costed millions of dollars, but they cant track it or did anything in order to track it?" I just let it slide cause it barely bothered me in the overall picture. Then I thought about the vortex flux thing and thought it made 0 sense for them to be able to establish a link in order to control a creature but being unable to establish one to track it using the same technology.

I got the impression that the human-avatar links were a form of telepathy facilitated through esoteric (and conveniently unexplained) technology. There's no inherent reason why such tech should include tracking or that the link should be affected by the flux vortex. However, I do agree that Jake's avatar should have had some sort of tracker fitted. I guess the film could have spent a few seconds showing that the tracker had been damaged during the Thanator chase or have Grace say something about it not working. I think that's a relatively minor quibble though.

 

[cloud_sleep]

Now that I think about it how did Quaritch find them up there after he saw Jake's avatar on the video feed ??

You mean when he comes to shut them down at a remote site? I assumed they were working from a known location at that time.

 

[JB1981]

I thought they were working up there to stay hidden from Quaritch ??

Also what happens to the Avatar when Jake comes out of the link? Does he only come out of the link when it's time for bed? Also do the Navi know that they are avatars ? Wouldn't they be weirded out by that ??

 

[cloud_sleep]

I thought they were working up there to stay hidden from Quaritch ??

IIRC they only hide from Quaritch when they airlift the trailer to a location near the Tree Of Souls. Quaritch visits them in their trailer and shuts them down earlier in the movie. Presumably the base would know where this trailer was located. I don't remember anyone saying that the initial trailer location was secret, just remote.

Also what happens to the Avatar when Jake comes out of the link? Does he only come out of the link when it's time for bed? Also do the Navi know that they are avatars ? Wouldn't they be weirded out by that ??

The Avatars are not Navi. They are grown specifically for their operators and are basically just a vessel for the consciousness of their driver. When the link is severed, the Avatar is essentially in a coma.

 

[JB1981]

IIRC they only hide from Quaritch when they airlift the trailer to a location near the Tree Of Souls. Quaritch visits them in their trailer and shuts them down earlier in the movie. Presumably the base would know where this trailer was located. I don't remember anyone saying that the initial trailer location was secret, just remote.



The Avatars are not Navi. They are grown specifically for their operators and are basically just a vessel for the consciousness of their driver. When the link is severed, the Avatar is essentially in a coma.

Yes I know they are not Navi but when the link is severed what happens to the physical avatar body? It lays there all day? Do they only sever the link at night when everyone is sleeping ? The navi know that they are avatars right ??

 

[jett]

Yes I know they are not Navi but when the link is severed what happens to the physical avatar body? It lays there all day? Do they only sever the link at night when everyone is sleeping ? The navi know that they are avatars right ??

The Navi know, they call Sully "dreamwalker" when they take him to their camp the first time. You should rewatch the movie.

 

[cloud_sleep]

Yes I know they are not Navi but when the link is severed what happens to the physical avatar body? It lays there all day? Do they only sever the link at night when everyone is sleeping ? The navi know that they are avatars right ??

Oh, ok, I see what you mean. Well, I guess the they would sever the link at night when they are sleeping. We see Jake do this the first night he spends with the Navi, IIRC.

 

[symphonask]

No one's mentioned it yet, but this scene of Shaw praying in the trailer is not in the movie. It looks like it clearly happens after she has the c-section. I don't understand why it was cut. It would have added much needed weight to the aftermath of that event.

The more details emerge, the more it seems like a 2 and a half hour movie was condensed into two hours. Story threads are rushed from one to another, without thought for logic and story sense. Someone (probably Ridley) really wanted that 2 hour runtime. I think he really, really wants to make a sequel to this.

There has to be an extended edition/ director's cut.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Just saw this a second time. Beautiful looking movie but didn't hold up .. at all. (Though it probably didn't on the first time, either) So messy. There really are some WTF moments in it, especially in the second half. The Guy Pearce storyline was completely pointless. Take away the alien link and the director clouding up everything else and it's a really bog standard sci fi movie with a terrible ending.

symphonask - that scene is definitely in the movie, whether she prays or not I can't remember - but there's a dramatic, extended scene of her in front of a mirror freaking out.

 

[symphonask]

symphonask - that scene is definitely in the movie, whether she prays or not I can't remember - but there's a dramatic, extended scene of her in front of a mirror freaking out.

Oh? thanks. Yeah, I still feel the editing in this movie was horrible. Everything felt rushed, or every scene feels cut short (I don't think she does the praying gesture in the movie, not sure).

Like why would they film a completely different take of the Fifield attack where he looks more alien? In the trailer, you can see Weyland flanked by armed men shooting. Or the multiple engineers in the beginning. Either this movie was butchered, or they literally made it up as they went along. Neither would surprise me.

Btw, don't know if this pic was posted. Hoping we get the extended opening on blu-ray.

 

[Replicant]

No one's mentioned it yet, but this scene of Shaw praying in the trailer is not in the movie. It looks like it clearly happens after she has the c-section. I don't understand why it was cut. It would have added much needed weight to the aftermath of that event.

Huh? I'm pretty sure I saw that scene and she wasn't praying. More like doing a quick hand grasping to steel herself after the trauma she endured.

 

[symphonask]

someone on the avp forums made a list with pics of some of the stuff from trailers/tv spots that were modified or not in the movie. Quite interesting.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=43817.0

Also, this TV spot features some of the stuff not in the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auo4xPT5Tfo

 

[Bluemercury]

I need to catch up, but I do not believe this was posted yet:

Shame we got zombie man rather than creepy mutated alien man.

Also, decent look at the Deacon:

I would like the Deacon more if it didn't remind me of the AVP alien so much.

where were these from?

 

[robertsan21]

I agree, movied felt rushed in many scenes, the Directors cut might save this film.

I have a feeling the DC will be awesome

 

[JB1981]

Huh? I'm pretty sure I saw that scene and she wasn't praying. More like doing a quick hand grasping to steel herself after the trauma she endured.

agree i don't think she was kneeled over praying either.

 

[JB1981]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auo4xPT5Tfo

ha this is like the Idris Elba TV Spot and it's really really bad.

 

[aznpxdd]

Yeah, I hope the DC is awesome and is what KoH DC is to KoH.

There are just too many potholes and shit that doesn't make sense. I'm sure someone in this thread has defended/answer this already - so what's the reason behind Shaw not mentioning about the baby to anyone?

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Yeah, I hope the DC is awesome and is what KoH DC is to KoH.

There are just too many potholes and shit that doesn't make sense. I'm sure someone in this thread has defended/answer this already - so what's the reason behind Shaw not mentioning about the baby to anyone?

They though the Weyland reveal was enough to make the viewer forget about consequence and effect, also the pace was increasing so they got even sloppier and just wanted to though as much as the view as possible.

 

[Bluemercury]

if they have 28min to be inserted i guess it can solve some of these issues...

 

[robertsan21]

Those Iceland shots at the start of the film was killer. Love every second of it.

the film started in a kickass way.

 

[mantidor]

Yeah, I hope the DC is awesome and is what KoH DC is to KoH.

There are just too many potholes and shit that doesn't make sense. I'm sure someone in this thread has defended/answer this already - so what's the reason behind Shaw not mentioning about the baby to anyone?

The way I saw it, they knew already, David told them, or at least to Weyland, when she arrives all messed up and drops in front of them they knew, while it didn't need a long explanation, a small moment when she realizes these people almost killed her but has no other option than to go along with them would have been enough, but nooo, the script just decides to ignore that.

The writing is just terrible.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

if they have 28min to be inserted i guess it can solve some of these issues...

Just cut down on the amount of shit that happens , then give proper time to what's left.


For example, don't have the xeno-snake, then have the 'zombie' attack be a bigger reveal and a event that has impact.

It's filled with nice ideas, but rather then having focus enough to see them develop it just throws out more and more stuff, until it ends up looking like a circus will giant albino aliens, guy slowly getting infected, amoral droid, shaw-hugger, zombie attack, xeno-snake, proto-xeno.

Those Iceland shots at the start of the film was killer. Love every second of it.

the film started in a kickass way.

Funny how the best thing in the film has no dialogue, or main characters involved in it.

 

[Bluemercury]

The way I saw it, they knew already, David told them, or at least to Weyland, when she arrives all messed up and drops in front of them they knew, while it didn't need a long explanation, a small moment when she realizes these people almost killed her but has no other option than to go along with them would have been enough, but nooo, the script just decides to ignore that.

The writing is just terrible.

I say they cut some scene that might help this particular issue...

 

[iFootball]

I wish this thread would stick to discussion around the story, theories on possible answers to 'gaps', possible scenarios for a sequel, etc.... instead of listening to why some people believe it's a C+ or a B- movie, or better or worse than Avatar

Edit: As they say... "it is what it is"... good or bad

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I wish this thread would stick to discussion around the story, theories on possible answers to 'gaps', possible scenarios for a sequel, etc.... instead of listening to why some people believe it's a C+ or a B- movie, or better or worse than Avatar

Spoiler

It can be both.

 

[Insane Metal]

So basically, Avatar is awesome, perfect sci-fi and Prometheus sucks, right Sculli? =P