mugurumakensei
Member
out of the system's that lasted the entire generation of those said generations, they were the weakest.
Wii U: Does it really matter if PS4 and Xbox 720 are more powerful?
- Thread starter marc^o^
- Start date
out of the system's that lasted the entire generation of those said generations, they were the weakest.
Are we using some arbitrary rule for what counts now?
A generation is a generation, it doesn't matter if they lasted to the end or not.
The market's.
Well when people say that they are comparing the PSX to the N64 and the PS2 to the GCN and XBox. Poor Sega, always forgotten.
MrCookiepants
Member
I don't care about support. I'll have a Playstation/Xbox/both for third party games. The best thing for Nintendo as a business is to keep going their own way while the others fight over timed exclusive DLC.
And honestly, Brawl looks better than Sony Smash Bros. The Mario Galaxies are some of the prettiest games I've played. Nintendo's games are so insanely polished as to make hardware limitations seem irrelevant.
And honestly, Brawl looks better than Sony Smash Bros. The Mario Galaxies are some of the prettiest games I've played. Nintendo's games are so insanely polished as to make hardware limitations seem irrelevant.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Saw that coming from a mile away.
Firstly pretty much no games exclusive on the PC appeal to me, I also hate mouse and keyboard controls. On top of all that Id rather play on my nice big T.V screen.
The difference between Wii to 360/PS3 is a much larger gap than what the 360/PS3 to PC gap is. The later doesnt have a problem regarding ports too...the Wii U will.
Chû Totoro
Member
Yes but a full HD world about the size of Zelda 3 would cost a lot of money and time.
It's not only about having nice and shiny things it's also about what we want the devs to spend time on. 6 months put into graphics won't be spend into something else...
I'm sorry but with the rise of the devs costs and with the profits going down I'm not sure it's wise to keep it that way.
Why in the same time no one here seems to understand that the games are 65 for a reason?
Don't buy used games, don't expect poor sales so you can buy the game you hesitate to buy cheaper and be prepared for another 599 Sony system.
You'll have to choose. You can't have the same graphics as a 750+ graphic card and ask for a 399 system...
Barry Burton
Member
It wouldn't matter if the audience was there.
Third parties aren't going to just say, "Well, we aren't going to support Wii U because it's not powerful". They will bring everything to Wii U if the audience is there to buy those games.
Nintendo needs to drive that userbase in Year 1, but they are off to a terrible start. Reggie acknowledged that they need to drive that userbase before a lot of western third parties commit; he followed that up by using Batman: Arkham City as an example of a game that would drive that userbase. Not a good sign.
Third parties aren't going to just say, "Well, we aren't going to support Wii U because it's not powerful". They will bring everything to Wii U if the audience is there to buy those games.
Nintendo needs to drive that userbase in Year 1, but they are off to a terrible start. Reggie acknowledged that they need to drive that userbase before a lot of western third parties commit; he followed that up by using Batman: Arkham City as an example of a game that would drive that userbase. Not a good sign.
So a move towards a Wii like ecosystem is inevitable per the market, is that what you are saying?
test_account
XP-39C²
I didnt know that, that is pretty cool
The sand effects in Journey looks amazing, but i'm pretty impressed with the sand effects in UC3 as well. The grass effects in Flower is also amazing.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Who is this question being asked to? Is it the dedicated gamers who demand to know which multiplatform version is superior before plunking down their money?
Is it the ones who go into conniptions if there's some screen tearing or muddy textures in a particular version?
Then yes, it matters a lot when it comes to third party multiplatform games, because that's where the U will wind up as the inferior option.
Is it the ones who go into conniptions if there's some screen tearing or muddy textures in a particular version?
Then yes, it matters a lot when it comes to third party multiplatform games, because that's where the U will wind up as the inferior option.
Which used to be fine, but that polish didn't look so great on a modern TV this gen because they were pushing out SD.
At least the WiiU will be HD, so even if their games wont be up to par with other next gen consoles we won't have to worry about iffy visuals.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
No, it doesn't matter as long as experiences are different and better. People who love Nintendo franchises, anything leaps of Wii would be good news. Being "minimum better than PS360" is great news for Nintendo itself as long as they release the console this year and is in the market for the next two years without any PS360 successor on sight.
Also, it being close to or better than PS360 is also good news for Sony and MS as it'll ensure that when future consoles release, PS360 support won't end as equal to or dumbed down WiiU games would easily be ported to those consoles.
Whatever happens, improved hardware is a good news for all. Of course ideally it should be a better hardware so that developers don't dumb down future WiiU titles when their main focus is PS360 successor.
Also, it being close to or better than PS360 is also good news for Sony and MS as it'll ensure that when future consoles release, PS360 support won't end as equal to or dumbed down WiiU games would easily be ported to those consoles.
Whatever happens, improved hardware is a good news for all. Of course ideally it should be a better hardware so that developers don't dumb down future WiiU titles when their main focus is PS360 successor.
What matters it that it has a good number of new releases every year. Being weak didn't kill the Wii directly, but the barren software slate once Nintendo moved onto 3DS/WiiU did. If third parties are successful on the platform and releasing multiple quality games on it and Nintendo bring their usual support, comparatively weak hardware won't matter.
Well the market responded positively to the Wii showing that powerful system were not a necessary demand. If Microsoft and Sony choose to follow this trend Nintendo isn't to blame. If the Wii flopped MS and Sony would not choose to go with less powerful systems and stick to the method we've always been following. The market dictates the way the things go.
You can plug a PC into a tele.
And how can we be so sure that the Wii U will have a problem. If no developer can afford to produce a game that requires more power than what the Wii U offers then that is what we will receive. I'd say the gap is closer to the previous gen rather than this gen simply because budget is going to be the limiting factor.
For Nintendo games? Nah. Nintendo will continue to make games that look great despite their technical disadvantage, just as they did this gen.
For third-party games? Nintendo probably won't get them. But I wonder how much that really matters. Even if it did match up, would third-parties even care? They don't seem to care with the Wii U now, what with it not getting games like GTAV and Bioshock Infinite. And even for the games they did get, would gamers even care? After 16 years of Nintendo systems being primarily for Nintendo games, can the market be changed to care about third-party multi-platform games on Nintendo systems again? Barring MS and Sony royally fucking up next gen, I don't think there's really anything Nintendo could do to entice the average CoD player or whatever to switch to the Wii U instead of the PS4/720.
For third-party games? Nintendo probably won't get them. But I wonder how much that really matters. Even if it did match up, would third-parties even care? They don't seem to care with the Wii U now, what with it not getting games like GTAV and Bioshock Infinite. And even for the games they did get, would gamers even care? After 16 years of Nintendo systems being primarily for Nintendo games, can the market be changed to care about third-party multi-platform games on Nintendo systems again? Barring MS and Sony royally fucking up next gen, I don't think there's really anything Nintendo could do to entice the average CoD player or whatever to switch to the Wii U instead of the PS4/720.
thecouncil
Banned
i dont understand why it should matter to anyone other than those who will only own a Wii U.
i certainly dont care about 3rd party multiplatform games because i will play them on the other systems.
Wii had some pretty rad third party exclusives even if it wasnt very many.
...the only thing that held back Wii in my eyes was not being HD. and the Wii U has fixed that.
i certainly dont care about 3rd party multiplatform games because i will play them on the other systems.
Wii had some pretty rad third party exclusives even if it wasnt very many.
...the only thing that held back Wii in my eyes was not being HD. and the Wii U has fixed that.
Your last point is basically the only thing that may, in the long run, end up guaranteeing a steady supply of third party games. I really would rather not have another Wii, flooded with shovel ware, no third party taking it seriously, except for outsourced spin offs, and year long droughts.
First post nails it.
Personally I lie in the former. Wii U was never going to be my console of choice. But I was always going to get it for Nintendo games and the odd 3rd party exclusive.
Unlike the Wii, the games won't look like shit on an HDTV. That'ss good enough. Anything more is a bonus
megashock5
Member
Agreed. But I also think price plays a role here. The $250 Wii launched alongside a $500-600 PS3. A difference in power was expected. If the prices are closer this time, the power difference might matter more.
But yeah at the end of the day it's more about what you want to play.
Yeah it matters to core gamers.
It matters to developers who won't make their AAA games for the platform which doesn't meet certain technical requirements.
It matters to graphics whores, tech enthusiasts, pixel counters and of course it's essential to keep alive the true spirit of console war through lensoftruth, digitalfoundry, gametrailers, gamefaqs (LOL).
It won't matter to casual gamers, soccer moms and such though.
It matters to developers who won't make their AAA games for the platform which doesn't meet certain technical requirements.
It matters to graphics whores, tech enthusiasts, pixel counters and of course it's essential to keep alive the true spirit of console war through lensoftruth, digitalfoundry, gametrailers, gamefaqs (LOL).
It won't matter to casual gamers, soccer moms and such though.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
I hear ya, but that just seems like wishful thinking to me. Its more plausible that the Wii U will be a repeat of the Wii in a lot of ways, and I think deep down you must surely know that by now.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Wrong. Both Saturn and Dreamcast were part of those generations whether you like it or not. Not Sony's fault Sega likes to throw in the towel.
The flood of shovelware is inevitable and will go to the console that sells the most.
The game droughts are entirely on Nintendo. It's their obligation to procure content to support their console. Be it through partnerships, moneyhats, investing in new studios and making more damn games, whatever.
Exercise for people who think it doesn't
Play a game on PS2/Wii/Gamecube in 480p
Play a game on PS3/X360 in non native 720p 20-25 fps frame rare
Play a game on powerfull PC in 1080p in 60 fps
and then tell me power doesn't matter for enjoyment of gaming
The last few games I've played through:
Skylanders (360)
The Witcher
Epic Mickey
Legend of Grimrock
Alan Wake (PC)
Call of Duty: United Offensive (Yes, the expansion pack for the first game. PC)
Assassin's Creed: Revelations
Fez (current)
Plans for the immediate future are Alan Wake's American Nightmare (PC), one or more of the Blackwell games (PC) and Yakuza 2 (PS2). Although I'll probably get distracted by the Steam Summer Sale in the midst of all that.
For me, power doesn't matter for enjoyment of gaming.
Comparisons to the PS360 and Wii dont quite apply when it comes to third parties.
The reason being cost.
A third party game that is on PS3, 360 and Wii would have the PS3 and 360 getting the same game and the Wii getting a downgraded version of the game that had to be built from scratch.
If the Wii version did well or did poorly was of little consequence because of how cheap it is to make Wii games.
A third party game that is on PS4, 720 and Wii U would still need to have a version of the game for the PS4 and 720 and a downgraded version of the for the Wii U but the Wii U version will cost a lot more to develop then a Wii game does today so if the Wii U version does poorly it would be a major hit to the publisher.
The reason being cost.
A third party game that is on PS3, 360 and Wii would have the PS3 and 360 getting the same game and the Wii getting a downgraded version of the game that had to be built from scratch.
If the Wii version did well or did poorly was of little consequence because of how cheap it is to make Wii games.
A third party game that is on PS4, 720 and Wii U would still need to have a version of the game for the PS4 and 720 and a downgraded version of the for the Wii U but the Wii U version will cost a lot more to develop then a Wii game does today so if the Wii U version does poorly it would be a major hit to the publisher.
Which brings me back to my original point, if the console is underpowered, and specially relative to the competition, third parties will not support it and there will be droughts.
So 1st party exclusives, a preference in controls, and the choice of where you could play your games made you prefer a lesser graphical powerhouse console than a high end PC... Do you see it coming again from a miles away? ;-)
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
NoA could give a rat's ass about game droughts, and has shown to have no problem letting games sit in Japan while tumbleweeds are blowing in the US.
Well I guess I'm being more pessimistic about the other two systems or perhaps optimistic that developers hire a financial departments so we don't see so many closures next gen (probably won't see as many by default simply because there are less studios to close).
I suppose it will be the B tier developers that will release games on all three systems because that's the only way they will make their money back. The rich can afford to pump out visuals that the WiiU won't meet. If it is the latter games you care about then the power difference will matter.
Also I guess I forgot the PS2 outsold the GCN and XBox combined so it was worth developer's time to develop for it whereas PS3/360 sales were greater than the Wii's.
So it comes down to budget and whether the WiiU sells very very well during its head start.
flyinpiranha
Member
I disagree. You play Skyrim on the 360 (I have) and Skyrim on the PC (I have) and it's pretty much the gap you'd see between a Wii and a PS360 game. The difference is that PS360 has a higher bar of visual fidelity and it's easier to accept it as the "lesser" while most Wii games do not (own a Wii also).
I think that having the Wii U at least be HD is a huge boon for the system. Even if it is the "weakest" once the 720/PS4 launch the difference won't be as visible to the general public because it has reached that minimum level of visual fidelity. There will be a difference, how great nobody knows. But it's like Nintendo finally built a machine with basic requirements to appease people with HDTV's and 7.1 SS systems.
Really? I have never heard any respected source claiming this, and the available evidence shows that dev. costs are growing, not stabilizing let alone decreasing...
Well the Saturn was better at 2D games than the PS1 & the Dreamcast version of DOA 2 looked better than the PS2 version, both the rushed original & the "improved" Hardcore re-release. Hell every Dreamcast game on PS2 looked worse but the Dreamcast died an early death so we'll never know just how close or far apart those two systems were in terms of power.
radioheadrule83
Banned
There were a tonne of great Wii games that were subject to port begging this generation, and there'll be more of that for Wii-U games this generation too.
The problem for Nintendo was that as they rode out the crest of the potential-wave of Wii, certain kinds of game became really popular that just weren't possible in the same way on their console. It didn't really bite for Wii owners until this last year and a half, where Nintendo haven't had the time to fill in the blanks because they've been distracted by 3DS and Wii-U...
They need to make the economic argument to third parties, stress that they can do new things on their machine, and be flexible to ensure they get at least a few great games. As long as they do that, they can make big strides over the support that the Wii had. The technological environment and disparity this time around will be much more friendly to work with than it was on the Wii... even architecturally, the Wii was a generation removed. Not quite the case this time. It should be better.
The problem for Nintendo was that as they rode out the crest of the potential-wave of Wii, certain kinds of game became really popular that just weren't possible in the same way on their console. It didn't really bite for Wii owners until this last year and a half, where Nintendo haven't had the time to fill in the blanks because they've been distracted by 3DS and Wii-U...
They need to make the economic argument to third parties, stress that they can do new things on their machine, and be flexible to ensure they get at least a few great games. As long as they do that, they can make big strides over the support that the Wii had. The technological environment and disparity this time around will be much more friendly to work with than it was on the Wii... even architecturally, the Wii was a generation removed. Not quite the case this time. It should be better.
Which is why they may choose to make one version for all three. As much as you may not want to hear it, but the WiiU could end up holding back the other two. Yes, I am aware this is overly optimistic in regard to the Wii U, but companies can't afford to ignore the finances.
Not quite true. A Wii U game will cost more to develop than a Wii game, but a Wii U *version* of a multiplatform game should be cheaper than a Wii version of a multiplatform game.
The Wii U should be able to reuse much more of the codebase and assets of the multiplatform title than the Wii would.
flyinpiranha
Member
My thought is that technology to create technology increases alongside it. I look at my girlfriend's job whose a graphic designer and the things PS and InDesign can do blow my mind from what I played with in college years ago. I'm not sure about developer tools but we're at a point where one person can make a game like Braid, which 20 years ago would have taken a team.
It's never just about graphics though when it comes to power. "Graphics" also gets thrown around and can mean many things. Are you speaking of enemies on screen? AI animations and behavior? Draw distance? Particles? It encompasses so much more than "it looks pretty" that the discussion usually just leads to art direction vs resolution. You take a game like San Andreas and compare it to GTA IV and the graphical AND processing power and ability to have the things on screen is enormous, not talking about the actual gameplay or whether you enjoyed it but just the detail of each, and SA was on the Xbox and IV was on the Xbox 2. 1 generation of a jump and the differences are astronomical IMO. A better comparison will be when V launches and we compare the Xbox version of SA to the 360 version of V. That would be 1 generation.
Conciliator
Banned
Yes, I would be perfectly happy with the Wii U's power if they get all the great third party games(including indie/small games). I have every reason to believe that most major developers will be primarily developing for the other guys, however. A couple above-average platformers and maybe an F-Zero or Metroid if we're lucky isn't enough to sell me on the system, and that has almost nothing to do with however much horsepower it has.
As always, I will purchase a console when I feel it has enough games that I really want to play and can't play on a platform I already own to justify the price. As in, when the games are released and when they're actually good. Don't care about promises.
As always, I will purchase a console when I feel it has enough games that I really want to play and can't play on a platform I already own to justify the price. As in, when the games are released and when they're actually good. Don't care about promises.
As a quick aside: Did they ever mention what the lead platform was for Skylanders? I ask because I've been playing it on the 360 and don't really see anything that's not feasible on the Wii, I suspect that game may have originated on Nintendo's platform.
In other words: I suspect Skylanders may do precisely that.
Exactly. Nintendo's not a tiny company. There's no reason they couldn't have at least one game every other month and 1 or 2 major fall releases. They just don't seem to give a shit.
Well the Wii U can now off HD cinematic experiences. So the question is what will the PS4 and 720 offer? If we based everything off of the previous gen Sony would be laughing to the bank and Nintendo would be slapping Mario on every third party game in order to try and boost sales.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Not so much for Wii U since it's competition in the 3rd party arena will likely be the PS360.
For devs and consumers that want the spectacle and capabilities of next gen tech, yes it will matter. Wii U will be fine without next gen tech games.
For devs and consumers that want the spectacle and capabilities of next gen tech, yes it will matter. Wii U will be fine without next gen tech games.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
wait... wut?
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
I want destruction even better then that seen in Red Faction Gorilla on a city the scale of GTA4.
Give me power!
Give me power!
outunderthestars
Banned
wait... wut?
It's a Nintendo fanboy site. I doubt they played either of the games.