T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
What the hell are you guys talking about? Tell me how the SNES, GEN, TG16, N64, PS1-3, Xbox, XBox 360 was developed to solve a "market problem" like you guys are talking about.
Gamasutra: PlayStation Vita's biggest challenge: Convincing developers
- Thread starter Vic
- Start date
What the hell are you guys talking about? Tell me how the SNES, GEN, TG16, N64, PS1-3, Xbox, XBox 360 was developed to solve a "market problem" like you guys are talking about.
Well I think a lot of times people do see the price of 3DS and Vita games and are just disgusted that they are so expensive when compared to iOS games. That Penny Arcade comic was extremely accurate for how the general public feels.
I would not be surprised to see at least Gameloft port any and every game they can to PS Mobile.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
And you tell me how well quantity over quality and cheap but crappy games worked out for the industry when it was happening to the Atari 2600.
thehypocrite
Member
That's why they won't kill it. It could sour 3rd party developers and compromise the support for the PS4, they wouldn't risk it.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Opus Angelorum
Member
The worrying thing is that despite recognizing that there is a problem with third party developer confidence, at no point does Shuhei suggest that this is changing anytime soon.
As a few others have stated, if developers are to come aboard (once Sony actually figure out what it is they have to do) it will be some time before things change. And it could be all over by then.
As a few others have stated, if developers are to come aboard (once Sony actually figure out what it is they have to do) it will be some time before things change. And it could be all over by then.
They aren't there for launch.
I never said it was good for the industry. Only that that's just the climate the industry is in these days. I don't game on my phone and I only ever get games on my iPad because I have a ton of free iTunes credit.
That said, I'm the minority who would rather spend $40 on a 3DS or Vita game than $40 on 40 $1 iOS games. Fact is, the minority is extremely small compared to the majority. 2 million Vita owners compared to what, 200 million or so iOS owners?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Fine, but at least tell me what the market problem was that existed for those other systems. Hell even the orignial PSP. There wasn't really a problem in the market that needed correcting there, but it sure did go on to sell tons of units.
funkystudent
Member
The vita is still at a stage where most big budget games wont make there money back.
Sony needs to go and moneyhat some big third party system sellers to get the ball rolling and give people a reason to buy the console so devs can make money on the system.
Get a Final Fantasy or a Kingdom Hearts. They always sold even on the psp.
Get a REAL Call of Duty game made by the COD people that actually looks and plays like a COD game.
Thats what should have happened at e3/gamescom/TGS but is just hasnt happened.
Sony needs to go and moneyhat some big third party system sellers to get the ball rolling and give people a reason to buy the console so devs can make money on the system.
Get a Final Fantasy or a Kingdom Hearts. They always sold even on the psp.
Get a REAL Call of Duty game made by the COD people that actually looks and plays like a COD game.
Thats what should have happened at e3/gamescom/TGS but is just hasnt happened.
The Wii is very strong evidence for how this works. While the system had obvious and enormous early success, its competing systems already had GTA IV, Call of Duty IV, Metal Gear Solid IV, Final Fantasy XXIII, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, and many other games already well in to development before they or the Wii even launched. In retrospect, it's obvious that the Wii was never going to get substantial support when the deck was already so thoroughly stacked against it before it even launched, no matter how successful it was afterwards.
A significant portion of a system's software success -- if not the majority of it -- is already decided before the system even launches. Keep in mind that these days, any game releasing within the first year or two of the system's release almost certainly began development before the system itself had sold a single unit. If everyone decides a system isn't going to sell well before the system releases, then the first year or two are going to be very barren -- and if the system sells well out of the gate after all, it's likely to fall off later, because now it doesn't have much software to support that good early start!
The Vita appears to be in that negative-cycle situation. It didn't get automatic support out of the gate, and there's no reason to suspect it's going to get it now that it's off to a slow start.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Sounds like it. Basically like N64 era Nintendo, build it and they will come.
Their plan to "show the way" reminds me a lot of Nintendo's Wii era 3rd party approach. It doesn't work.
It's a bit alarming that SCE almost seems to have adopted the worse ideologies and practices that historical Nintendo used in 3rd party relations and approach. It's a bit insane given how PlayStation rose to success and SCE used to operate. All this also is coming from Yoshida, who's considered one of their more capable and aware execs... PS4 will be interesting to watch unfold.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Sony should find a way to get it under $99 before Nov 2014 and make it the controller for the PS4 launch. Like Wii U but better, and can play its own games on the go.
I just don't understand why a device that is so technically sound is so feverishly disliked. It's plastic. Folks are so smug about their self professed wisdom in not buying one.
I don't think it's disliked. I just think people don't see the need to own one.
I kind of agree. That's why I think Declassified and Liberation are its best hopes right now. Not ports, but new games in franchises console gamers love that are more suited to portable.
At the same time though, I personally think the Vita should be (or should've been) marketed as basically a 4" tablet with buttons. It probably could be with the right usability software. A tablet that also plays COD? Could've been big.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I'm well aware of what it means to have a problem to solve when coming to market with a product. It's just historically when it comes to video game systems, the concented need for better graphics and better controlls have alway been enough, and the vita solves both those problems.
Of course many other factors lead to the success of consoles beyond those two things, but those two things have always been enough to warrent new generations of consoles and the vita is a new generation. If you are going to say that things are different now you are going to have to explain more.
frankie_baby
Member
Oh it will be $99 before November 2014, the fire sale will be before then
It's probably gonna be a lot worse for the PSVita. As you said, the Wii was really popular, publishers and studios at least had an incentive to create games for it even after they started working on PS3/360 games. I think PSVita third-party future entirely depends on AC: Liberation and Call of Duty. If these two games are not successful, companies won't try anymore and games already in development might be cancelled or switch to another platform.
not_so_special
Banned
the solution for me is ten bucks games like the ones on psn like journey,etc
killing the system is stupid,and the last time i checked the output from nintendo on 3ds wasnt stellar either,(even luigi is done by next level games) sony is only almost the one who is doing big games for the system (wipeout,uncharted,killzone,all stars,little big planet,sly cooper,etc) so its a bit unfair that whole "sony is not doing any games for the system and nintendo is doing a lot of games for the 3ds.
MikeE21286
Member
I think your original hypothesis is incorrect.
The reason that new video game systems come out is not because there is a "need" for better graphics, controls, etc. but it is because the market wills it and competition dictates it.
Sales of platforms that have been out on the market become stale and start to decline. By staying in the decline phase without creating a new replacement product some new/different company would come along and create that product, therefore potentially stealing customers.
The questions that should be asked at this point is where does the new product fit. Is the market the same as it was before? What are the prevailing trends now, as well as in the future lifespan of the product? Etc.
If you're asking me if the market is different now than it was when the PSP launched? Well that's an obvious yes. Sony released a 2004 product in 2012. And I can't understand why more explanation would be required.
Wyndstryker
Member
If there's no games that appeal to a person, why buy it. A good game doesn't mean it's a must-have "killer app". The killer app brings people to the console, the good games keep people playing it.
All I want is a portable NHL game
EA says buy FIFA, and Madden if you want NHL.
Basically we're never getting NHL. Hope for one of those iOS hockey games to get ported to PSMobile with physical controls I guess.
Father_Brain
Banned
You disliking an idea doesn't make it stupid. The phrase "cutting one's losses" comes to mind.
MikeE21286
Member
Throwing bad money after bad money....
3 games were announced for NA yesterday. The system is clearly in trouble, but for the people who own one, there's actually a pretty good amount of interesting stuff to play. It's not like I need 100 games for the thing. Even games that probably aren't going to do that well like Silent Hill: Book of Memories I can see getting thrown in the instant game collection on PS+ for Vita. Over time, it'll continue to pick up a slow trickle of people buying it. Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty won't hurt either. Soul Sacrifice will push some people to pick it up. And they already said they're redesigning it so they can offer a price drop.
Will that all save it? I don't know, but it'll still be around for a while yet.
frankie_baby
Member
EA have even already given up actually developing Fifa, they just slapped a new name on the box
It's not just Vita. Their focus has been consoles.
metalslimer
Member
At this point, throwing money at Vita is will just be fruitless endeavor. I know owners of the system don't want to hear or consider Sony killing the system, but if they actually want a healthy video game division Vita is the last place they should be throwing money. The only reason Nintendo is even still a contender in the portable race is because of Mario. If anyone outside of Nintendo had released the 3DS it would be deader than Vita.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Did Sony ever come out and say:
after the PS3 debacle? Because all these assumptions for success without any real planning behind it seems like a pattern.
after the PS3 debacle? Because all these assumptions for success without any real planning behind it seems like a pattern.
Sammy Samusu
Member
This holiday season is going to be interesting, yall better buy buckets of COD and AC.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
The system literally launched 7 months ago in North America, it hasn't even had its first holiday season yet. It has sold a couple of million units WW. I think it's a victim of its own expectations as much as anything, it's kind of crazy to talk about euthanizing it already.
They did it for Wii and 3DS too, right?
Sorry. Not going to happen. You don't cancel a product after 7 months.
frankie_baby
Member
The wii is in its way out and the 3ds version apparently is improved from last years
Father_Brain
Banned
Three niche Japanese games that won't sell any systems, yes. And a price drop won't help if there still aren't any games that would realistically be system-sellers on any handheld, which remains very much the case.
Sony obviously can't and won't pull the plug now, since they're still preparing big-ish pushes for COD/AC in the West and (seemingly) GE2/Soul Sacrifice in Japan. After that, the DC option is definitely on the table.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Madden was terrible. Framerate was terrible in cutscenes and they didn't even bother to update the team statistics.
metalslimer
Member
No, you could probably find the lowest expectations anyone had prelaunch and Vita has sunk lower than that in sales. It is one of the worst selling video game hardware in a long time. Also the system had a holiday season in Japan and it did terrible after the first week.
What tech world do you live in? It's not going to be cancelled until at least after all the products they have in development (killzone, soul sacrifice, tearaway) are released, but I highly doubt they put any more resources into it than that.
The thing I don't think people realize is that every decent sized game that has been announced/released for Vita all started development before anyone saw much of sales disaster the thing would be. TGS showed what future support looks like now that people have actually seen the real sales.
Vita version has online play, 3DS doesn't. They don't give a fuck about either of them so don't kid yourself.
No, no and no.
This is the reason why the Vita hasn't an identity yet. It doesn't know if it wants the iphone players or the consoles players, so it throw random things at both. That's not how you design or market a console.
There are obvious, simple things to see with the Vita, in my opinion. For exemple, the first time i saw it, i could say : This thing will never ever be sold at someone who's not an avid gamer. There is NO reason for it. Everyone and their cousins have a smartphone, especially people who can buy a 250$ portable. The only reason you would like to add a bulky thing with sticks and buttons in your bag, is that you're a gamer. Not a new, occasional gamer. You're a true gamer!
And you already have a smartphone if you want to play shitty, or not shitty ios games. So the reason you bought that console, the only reason, is for its sticks and buttons. WHY in hell would you buy a 250$ giant console with buttons to play small games with touch control.. why..
The only reason Vita exist is for people who want something ELSE than that..
SCE's failure to announce any major new projects at TGS speaks volumes.
A significant portion of Nintendo fans were rubbed the wrong way when people suggested the Vita would curbstomp the 3DS for months. It's this awful fanboyism fuel thats truly pathetic. 3DS isn't doing so hot either, but poking fun of the Vita is the new 'it' thing.
test_account
XP-39C²
I assume that he is referring to the PS2 days (and maybe later PS1 days as well) because he says "many years ago". "Everyone" developed for the PS2, so it was kinda expected to get continued 3rd party support on the PS2 further into its lifecycle.
I dont think they have this viewpoint today, especially not with the Vita seeing the later PSP support in the west. Xbox 360 and upcoming WiiU will also be competitors to the PS3 regarding 3rd party support. I'd be very surprised if they take it for granted today seeing what happened to the PSP and PS3.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I honestly think the biggest problem is that Sony's reason for developing the Vita was because despite the PSP resurgence in Japan circa 2010 it was deader than dead in the West. So they decided to make a new system that would address the areas they thought would entice Western gamers (HD Graphics, Capacitive Touch, no UMDs, 2nd Analogue Stick etc.) and assumed the PSP audience in Japan would just automatically migrate over to the Vita so they'd suddenly be successful in both territories, not just Japan.
Remember how one of the first games announced at the unveiling of the NGP was Call of Duty? Why would that be their headlining game during that press conference if the system was mainly designed to address the Japanese market?
What Sony failed to recognize was that the PSP flopped in the West not because it didn't have HD graphics, or a touch screen, or a 2nd analogue stick. Those were certainly problems, but the major reason the PSP failed was because in general the West simply prefers gaming on a bigger screen ala HDTV or a PC, and the only reason it ever resorts to portable gaming is when it offers an experience they simply cannot get on a console or PC. The DS was a major success because of games like Nintendogs, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, all of the Touch Generation games, they all used the unique dual-screen layout and touch screen controls to provide an experience you couldn't get on any home console, at least not at the time. And now with the smartphone market muscling its way into the Western portable gaming market, the Vita just had no reason to exist, and sadly still doesn't. None of the "big" Vita titles are games that couldn't have been on a console, and they have been/will be largely ignored by the market. Even Nintendo is struggling in the West in this space now, only holding on because of a drastic price cut and a lot of overtime from their most reliable plumber. And even then, NSMB2 isn't exactly lighting the charts on fire here. And if Nintendo is stuggling with the 3DS in the West with it's stronger IPs and at least slightly more unique features (the 3D didn't sell the system over the smartphones here in the way they hoped it would), the Vita never stood a chance.
Remember how one of the first games announced at the unveiling of the NGP was Call of Duty? Why would that be their headlining game during that press conference if the system was mainly designed to address the Japanese market?
What Sony failed to recognize was that the PSP flopped in the West not because it didn't have HD graphics, or a touch screen, or a 2nd analogue stick. Those were certainly problems, but the major reason the PSP failed was because in general the West simply prefers gaming on a bigger screen ala HDTV or a PC, and the only reason it ever resorts to portable gaming is when it offers an experience they simply cannot get on a console or PC. The DS was a major success because of games like Nintendogs, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, all of the Touch Generation games, they all used the unique dual-screen layout and touch screen controls to provide an experience you couldn't get on any home console, at least not at the time. And now with the smartphone market muscling its way into the Western portable gaming market, the Vita just had no reason to exist, and sadly still doesn't. None of the "big" Vita titles are games that couldn't have been on a console, and they have been/will be largely ignored by the market. Even Nintendo is struggling in the West in this space now, only holding on because of a drastic price cut and a lot of overtime from their most reliable plumber. And even then, NSMB2 isn't exactly lighting the charts on fire here. And if Nintendo is stuggling with the 3DS in the West with it's stronger IPs and at least slightly more unique features (the 3D didn't sell the system over the smartphones here in the way they hoped it would), the Vita never stood a chance.
metalslimer
Member
Yes the only way people could say the thing selling worse than the Dreamcast is doing terrible is if they are crazed Nintendo fanboy. Makes complete sense
But if we're going to talk about the 3DS, while it's doing mediocre in the west, it's the dominant system in Japan. Sony would kill to have mediocre sales anywhere.