I can make my Steam collection function without Steam, even if Valve doesn't release a patch themselves if they ever go out of business. But that's just always been the power of PC flexibility.
Eurogamer Opinion - Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile
- Thread starter 8bit
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I can make my Steam collection function without Steam, even if Valve doesn't release a patch themselves if they ever go out of business. But that's just always been the power of PC flexibility.
I think you may have misunderstood Acorn's posts. The court case he cites upholds consumer rights for digital goods. So his argument is explicitly that Microsoft's new approach is not legal.
A Black Falcon
Member
The "you're buying a license, not a product" system is basically a scam which benefits companies over people, and ideally wouldn't be allowed. It shouldn't matter if the game was purchased digitally or physically, the resulting thing you bought is the same at its core, so your rights should also be the same, including resale of course.
And yes, Steam, GOG, etc. badly need resale systems.
While these things are largely true, the fact that Steam does not allow resale is not acceptable. Sure, PC gaming doesn't have the same kind of resale habit as consoles, but if you go on ebay now, you'll find lots of old PC games for sale there. But with digital-only games, we just have to hope that they stay up for sale forever, if we want to legally own them. And of course, that doesn't happen. If resale was allowed, this problem wouldn't exist.
Incendiary
Banned
This right here, this sums up exactly my biggest problem with the decision of XBox One. I tolerate iTunes because I can still buy CDs that I can own myself. I like Netflix because I can still buy DVDs that I can watch when the movies are removed from their streaming service. But with XBox One, I'm not allowed to own my own copy of any game. Every game is under Microsoft's thumb. And I can't stand that.
Elaugaufein
Member
The dark secret of the acceptance of Steam, by the tech literate and those who know them, is that ultimately if Steam goes down, the cracks are still going to be out there. Whether or not Steam "allows" you to play them is pretty irrelevant in that sense.
KnightSlyder
Banned
You're right, software companies have always tried to push that you don't own software. Intellectual copyright laws have been utilized to further this end. Now technology and networking is enabling the ability to enforce expirable goods...wet dream for them!
Elaugaufein
Member
GOG stuff is completely DRM free. I'm having a hard time coming up with a circumstance in which its current form even without account transfer resale is inferior to a disc in a practical sense. Actually account based resale would be nice but their DRM freeness also means they have no way of knowing that you don't still have 10 000 DVDs with copies of it on anyway but since the rest of their platform is pretty much honor system anyway maybe they wouldn't care.
Well, according to Valve they have a system in place to still let you access your Steam games in the unlikely event of them shutting it down.
A Black Falcon
Member
GOG games are permanently connected to my account! I cannot sell one game I own on GOG, unless I wanted to sell the whole account. That's not something I'd call actually "DRM-free". GOG doesn't have DRM on the downloads, but by locking games to accounts, they absolutely have a form of DRM on your purchase and account. Unless you can think of a better term for this?
Yeah, this has always been true for PC games. It only ISN'T true for MMOs or games with one-time-use, internet-registered, keys.
It's DRM-free in the sense that the installer you download for the game is not restricted in any way, you can put it on any computer and still use it.
Edit: you edited :/
H_Prestige
Banned
So you don't believe in "all sales are final"?
If you are not intelligent enough to be able to discern the massive differences then its not anybodies fault but your own.
A Black Falcon
Member
My point is that calling that "DRM-free" leaves out the just as important fact that you cannot legally resell anything you buy on GOG, unless you sell your entire account. I'd call that DRM, myself. Or something like it.
I just thought of something regarding some people saying that with Steam the prices are lower and that if Xbone had lower prices it would be different.
I had been thinking that if it turned out to be true that Sony was not going to follow suit with the same policies, then it would be a simple choice. But that is assuming the prices are the same.
What if it turned out that Microsoft was the only one with these policies, but then because of that Microsoft's games ended up being cheaper than Sony's for the same multiplatform games? If the publishers give Microsoft a cheaper price than Sony in return for implementing these policies would that cause enough people to choose Xbone over PS4 (depending upon the size of the price difference)? Publishers might use that as leverage to force Sony to implement the same policies.
I had been thinking that if it turned out to be true that Sony was not going to follow suit with the same policies, then it would be a simple choice. But that is assuming the prices are the same.
What if it turned out that Microsoft was the only one with these policies, but then because of that Microsoft's games ended up being cheaper than Sony's for the same multiplatform games? If the publishers give Microsoft a cheaper price than Sony in return for implementing these policies would that cause enough people to choose Xbone over PS4 (depending upon the size of the price difference)? Publishers might use that as leverage to force Sony to implement the same policies.
Elaugaufein
Member
Its not DRM. DRM is Digital Rights Management when technology measures are used to enforce copyright law. In practice it tends to enforce rights waaaay beyond those granted in copyright law too.
It doesn't really have a word for it since GOG (and Humble Bundle) is pretty much the only place I can think of that actually has an account based system that isn't DRM based and enforced.
I think steam comparisons are valid.
steam has a flexible online platform that allows 3rd party online stores to sell steam games and encourage competition, and the idea of physical discs simply being an alternative to downloading is the same.
i expect no such online flexibility from Microsoft and they will continue to sell only through their store. But physical discs will still be sold through a wide variety if stores, similarly encouraging competition.
the end result will be similar i think, but the xbox price cuts coming from physical retail rather than online, and steam is vice versa
steam has a flexible online platform that allows 3rd party online stores to sell steam games and encourage competition, and the idea of physical discs simply being an alternative to downloading is the same.
i expect no such online flexibility from Microsoft and they will continue to sell only through their store. But physical discs will still be sold through a wide variety if stores, similarly encouraging competition.
the end result will be similar i think, but the xbox price cuts coming from physical retail rather than online, and steam is vice versa
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
MS spent 1 billion dollars on astroturfers.
Jondoyle123
Neo Member
i love that we state opinion" when its actually fact -_-
bad times
bad times
Yes you can use a clandestine technique that voids your licence and makes that you are in the illegal possession of software.
Now given the recent ruckus about MS shills trying to derail threads with Steam comparisons I should point out that that's not what I'm trying to do, in most aspects MS is worse than Steam. And while the effects for me personally are negligible, the whole 'up yours consumers' attitude means I'm not going to buy the Xbone in the foreseeable future, likely ever..
But, this whole games as a licence travesty did start its popularity with the likes of Steam. It's not MS that came up with the idea that you don't own your games, they're just following the trend made popular by a large portion of PC gamers. It's just that MS are, like always, the most egregious example of everything bad in current day gaming.
StrongArmSteady
Member
Hope it's true.
haha yes please
eso76
Member
Dark Souls would cost me $600
Great, it means the developer deserved it
On the other hand, Far Cry 3 would have costed me 7$.
Most games would cost me around 20$.
We might end up spending more money but playing more games, getting to play each game and games would earn developers money based on their quality.
what about her cats?!!?
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Hope it's true.
That. Would be. Amazing.
WrenchNinja
Member
Is CVG's twitter known for jokes? That doesnt seem likely at all. The Butler ads havent been used in months, especially with all the legal problems Sony and the actor have had with each other.Hope it's true.
Mortimer Brewster
Member
Its a joke though it would have been a brilliant way for Sony to announce that the PS4 was going to be pro consumer.
A Black Falcon
Member
But how is the fact that it's linked to an account not DRM in and of itself? Sure, there's no DRM on the downloads, but unsellable games linked to accounts...