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[iamshadowlark]

LOL, you can quote Plato and Aristotle too if it makes you feel better. Lebron isn't MJ and there isn't one person on this board nor in the league who would nod their head at your bullshit.

"Stupid is as stupid does"

Forest Gump

You quoting Gump is so damn right. Bravo. You can comprehend a point just as well as he could too.

 

[Sanjuro]

I grew up in the 80's watching the Celts and the Lakers, if you really think for a minute defense was better back then, you're crazy.


Teams averaged 105 a game back then, 85 now.

So, you're basing your argument strictly on points scored in a game?

 

[CommonSense]

Lebron never went to fucking college, kind of hard to hit a game-winner from the sidelines. And all that psycho mumbo-jumbo is for the birds dudes. Talk to Vag with that bullshit.

MJ wasn't shit till he actually won. Anybody without a biased memory can tell you people were questioning whether Jordan could get it done, till he actually got it done. Anybody who says otherwise is revising history.

Yeah but I was there when Jordan banged against the Celtics dropping 60 a game in the playoffs, and I was there when he was winning games in the last minute, and I was there when he was respected as the best player in the league the year after he broke his leg, and I was there when he didn't bitch out and join Bird and Johnson to chase them 7 titles.

I was also there when he responded to the Jordan rules by winning, and when he carried NC over Georgetown, and when he never feared taking the last shot, and when he created the game you're watching now.

And I was THERE in Richfield for this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5WUOnTxwPw

Stop.

 

[linsivvi]

Aww dat checkmate.

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
― Socrates

It's not slander when it's the truth.

 

[CommonSense]

So, you're basing your argument strictly on points scored in a game?

Well I was also raised that defense is directly related to points scored, you?

 

[Gigglepoo]

If history is anything to go by, the Heat will win the series. Teams usually have devastating losses before they bring home the trophy.

I hope the I'm wrong.

 

[Branduil]

Webber in his prime was a better player than Barkley, Dirk, and McHale. He just played on worse teams.

The Kings were stacked ten years ago.

 

[linsivvi]

The Kings were stacked ten years ago.

And he was averaging 27-11-4

 

[KingGondo]

If history is anything to go by, the Heat will win the series. Teams usually have devastating losses before they bring home the trophy.

If the Heat were playing anyone other than OKC or SA, I'd probably agree.

I think there's a significant gap between those two teams and anyone from the East.

 

[CommonSense]

The Kings were stacked ten years ago.

Ah yes, Corliss Williamson and Stoyakovich for the win.

 

[benjipwns]

If there is a comparison to make between Jordan's situation before his first ring and LeBron's situation, both put up absolutely dominant performances but neither won titles or "won like they should" when their teams offensive system was "you're the best player in the league, here's the ball, go win."

The Bulls finished first in the league offensively four times and in the top five six times when MJ + Phil Jackson were combined. Jordan's individual numbers didn't suffer under Jackson despite the teams overall improved offense. Something he would do later with both Shaq and Kobe.

Then again, Phil Jackson didn't win coach of the year until his seventh season coaching, Mike Brown got there in four.

 

[Sanjuro]

Well I was also raised that defense is directly related to points scored, you?

Not always, but there are two sides of the defensive game. One of those sides would elevate a competent defensive players offensive numbers drastically.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

Yeah but I was there when Jordan banged against the Celtics dropping 60 a game in the playoffs, and I was there when he was winning games in the last minute, and I was there when he was respected as the best player in the league the year after he broke his leg, and I was there when he didn't bitch out and join Bird and Johnson to chase them 7 titles.

I was also there when he responded to the Jordan rules by winning, and when he carried NC over Georgetown, and when he never feared taking the last shot, and when he created the game you're watching now.

And I was THERE in Richfield for this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5WUOnTxwPw

Stop.

prove it.

fake ass edit: you're old.

 

[CommonSense]

If there is a comparison to make between Jordan's situation before his first ring and LeBron's situation, both put up absolutely dominant performances but neither won titles or "won like they should" when their teams offensive system was "you're the best player in the league, here's the ball, go win."

The Bulls finished first in the league offensively four times and in the top five six times when MJ + Phil Jackson were combined. Jordan's individual numbers didn't suffer under Jackson despite the teams overall improved offense. Something he would do later with both Shaq and Kobe.

Then again, Phil Jackson didn't win coach of the year until his seventh season coaching, Mike Brown got there in four.

Yes but Jordan was dealing with Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, and some great teams from the West while Lebron was dealing with toilet water in the East and losing to the Western Conference Champions.

 

[Branduil]

And he was averaging 27-11-4

Webber was a very good player, but he was never a very efficient scorer. Not like those other guys he got compared to.

 

[CommonSense]

prove it.

fake ass edit: you're old.

Ha ha, junior I was at every Cav's game from 1984-1995 because dad has season tickets and we lived about 5 miles away. Then I went to college and he never renewed. I have season tickets for the Cav's now but sadly I give most of them away to clients. I miss those days...

I'm 35 by the way, damn right I'm old.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Yeah but I was there when Jordan banged against the Celtics dropping 60 a game in the playoffs, and I was there when he was winning games in the last minute, and I was there when he was respected as the best player in the league the year after he broke his leg, and I was there when he didn't bitch out and join Bird and Johnson to chase them 7 titles.

I was also there when he responded to the Jordan rules by winning, and when he carried NC over Georgetown, and when he never feared taking the last shot, and when he created the game you're watching now.

And I was THERE in Richfield for this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5WUOnTxwPw

Stop.

Those are some nice ass stories but they are oh so irrelevant. And you still can't decipher simple points. You should take your own advice.

Stop.

If there is a comparison to make between Jordan's situation before his first ring and LeBron's situation, both put up absolutely dominant performances but neither won titles or "won like they should" when their teams offensive system was "you're the best player in the league, here's the ball, go win."

The Bulls finished first in the league offensively four times and in the top five six times when MJ + Phil Jackson were combined. Jordan's individual numbers didn't suffer under Jackson despite the teams overall improved offense. Something he would do later with both Shaq and Kobe.

Then again, Phil Jackson didn't win coach of the year until his seventh season coaching, Mike Brown got there in four.

Exactly.

 

[CommonSense]

Webber was a very good player, but he was never a very efficient scorer. Not like those other guys he got compared to.

He was never asked to be score first guy in the pro's, hence his high apg versus those compared too. He was just too good at creating.

If you want to see first option webber you gotta go back to the Michigan days.

 

[Gigglepoo]

If the Heat were playing anyone other than OKC or SA, I'd probably agree.

I think there's a significant gap between those two teams and anyone from the East.

Just how good is LeBron? The Thunder have should have 4 of the 6 best players every night, but LeBron is terrifying when he's on

 

[linsivvi]

Webber was a very good player, but he was never a very efficient scorer. Not like those other guys he got compared to.

That's why I agree he's not better than Barkley. But Dirk? Let's not get into that since I know who you're gonna defend, and I don't want to shit on Dirk anyway. Honestly, Dirk should be considered a very, very tall SF.

 

[CommonSense]

Those are some nice ass stories but they are oh so irrelevant. And you still can't decipher simple points. You should take your own advice.







Exactly.

You can hump his leg and dream all you want but lebron will never take Mike's title. If Kobe couldn't do it he doesn't have a shot. He will always be known as the guy who sold his own ass out because he knew he could not win a title on his own.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Yes but Jordan was dealing with Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, and some great teams from the West while Lebron was dealing with toilet water in the East and losing to the Western Conference Champions.

And he didn't beat those teams until he got scottie and they were way over the hill. Jordans first ring was a fucking cakewalk.

 

[iamshadowlark]

You can hump his leg and dream all you want but lebron will never take Mike's title. If Kobe couldn't do it he doesn't have a shot. He will always be know as the guy who sold his own ass out because he knew he could not win a title on his own.

I refuse to believe that this shit is flying over your head this smoothly.

 

[CommonSense]

And he didn't beat those teams until he got scottie and they were way over the hill. Jordans first ring was a fucking cakewalk.

LOL, you're ignorant. The Cavs and the Pistons were both elite level teams. Much tougher competition than Lebron has faced.


And again, Mike has 6 rings, lebron still has 0, hit me up when you have something to talk about.

 

[linsivvi]

You can hump his leg and dream all you want but lebron will never take Mike's title. If Kobe couldn't do it he doesn't have a shot. He will always be known as the guy who sold his own ass out because he knew he could not win a title on his own.

If LeBron manages to win the Heat a couple titles maybe he'll have his jersey retired by the Heat, right next to Jordan's.

 

[Dominican Power]

The emergence of the legend of Durantula will be on full display this series.

 

[KingGondo]

Just how good is LeBron? The Thunder have should have 4 of the 6 best players every night, but LeBron is terrifying when he's on

He's great, but he can't beat OKC alone. I'm also confident in our ability to gameplan for him and make life tough. Parker was in God Mode for the last 40 games of the season and we figured out how to slow him down... and KD has the ability to bother LBJ more than almost any other player with his length.

He can beat an old busted Czzzz team, but no way he can beat OKC alone.

 

[benjipwns]

He was never asked to be score first guy in the pro's

If you want to see first option webber you gotta go back to the Michigan days.

Huh? In 2000 and 2001 he was fifth and fourth in the league in total field goal attempts. He was second in the league over those two years, after only Iverson, averaging 22 FGA a game. How was he not the first option on those early Kings teams?

 

[Branduil]

He was never asked to be score first guy in the pro's, hence his high apg versus those compared too. He was just too good at creating.

If you want to see first option webber you gotta go back to the Michigan days.

He was the first option on most of those Kings teams, though... he just wasn't very efficient at it. Great passer and rebounder, but his scoring was mainly volume scoring.

That's why I agree he's not better than Barkley. But Dirk? Let's not get into that since I know who you're gonna defend, and I don't want to shit on Dirk anyway. Honestly, Dirk should be considered a very, very tall SF.

Well, since you compared them, Chris Webber never had a TS% higher than 54% when he played for the Kings. Last season, which everyone will admit was Dirk's worst season since his second, his TS% was 56%. Dirk at his worst is still a more efficient scorer than prime Webber ever was.

 

[CommonSense]

Huh? In 2000 and 2001 he was fifth and fourth in the league in total field goal attempts. He was second in the league over those two years, after only Iverson, averaging 22 FGA a game. How was he not the first option on those early Kings teams?

That's two years out of his entire career, and when he was called upon to do it, he did it as well as anybody on the PF list.

 

[benjipwns]

Well, since you compared them, Chris Webber never had a TS% higher than 54% when he played for the Kings. Last season, which everyone will admit was Dirk's worst season since his second, his TS% was 56%. Dirk at his worst is still a more efficient scorer than prime Webber ever was.

I posted their statistical primes back on the last page: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38768467&postcount=491

That's two years out of his entire career, and when he was called upon to do it, he did it as well as anybody on the PF list.

They were examples. Not the only years in which he led his team in field goal attempts.

 

[linsivvi]

He was the first option on most of those Kings teams, though... he just wasn't very efficient at it. Great passer and rebounder, but his scoring was mainly volume scoring.



Well, since you compared them, Chris Webber never had a TS% higher than 54% when he played for the Kings. Last season, which everyone will admit was Dirk's worst season since his second, his TS% was 56%. Dirk at his worst is still a more efficient scorer than prime Webber ever was.

No, I didn't dispute that Dirk is a more efficient scorer than Webber. Webber like most PFs can't shoot from the outside anyway. It's the other areas of the game where I put him above Dirk.

 

[CommonSense]

No, I didn't dispute that Dirk is a more efficient scorer than Webber. Webber like most PFs can't shoot from the outside anyway. It's the other areas of the game where I put him above Dirk.

Dirk should more be compared to Larry Bird than Webber to be fair.

 

[iamshadowlark]

LOL, you're ignorant. The Cavs and the Pistons were both elite level teams. Much tougher competition than Lebron has faced.

What part of didn't beat the Pistons or Lakers till they were over the hill don't you get. And those Cavs teams would get shit on by the elite teams of today LMAO.

Im ignorant but you're fucking retarded.

And again, Mike has 6 rings, lebron still has 0, hit me up when you have something to talk about

Sigh, just forget it dude.

 

[CommonSense]

What part of didn't beat the Pistons or Lakers till they were over the hill don't you get. And those Cavs teams would get shit on by the elite teams of today LMAO.

Im ignorant but you're fucking retarded.



Sigh, just forget it dude.

Yup you go ahead and say LBJ is Michael Jordon jr, Might as well say Tyson was just like Ali while you're at it.


PS: That "shit" Cav's team would win 60 games a year right now. People forgot about Brad before the back surgery.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Yup you go ahead and say LBJ is Michael Jordon jr, Might as well say Tyson was just like Ali while you're at it.

You have the most ironic name ever.

 

[CommonSense]

You have the most ironic name ever.

And you totally led your debate team.

 

[Branduil]

No, I didn't dispute that Dirk is a more efficient scorer than Webber. Webber like most PFs can't shoot from the outside anyway. It's the other areas of the game where I put him above Dirk.

That's fine, although it should also be mentioned that Dirk destroys Webber when it comes to playoff numbers.

Dirk: 26/10 58% TS%

Webber: 19/9 50% TS%

 

[Gigglepoo]

He's great, but he can't beat OKC alone.

That's the big question, isn't it? When he's on, everyone else on the team gets wide-open looks.

Also, Bosh is going to kill the Thunder on the offensive end. Just like the Celtics' interior defense went to hell when KG was forced to step outside to guard Bosh, so too will the Thunder's defense struggle when Ibaka is out of the paint.

I think the Heat are a terrible match up for the Thunder.

 

[Vestal]

I grew up in the 80's watching the Celts and the Lakers, if you really think for a minute defense was better back then, you're crazy.


Teams averaged 105 a game back then, 85 now.

Detroit Piston Defense in late 80s.
Bulls defense in all of the 90s
Knick defense..

Ill take those team defense against ANY team nowadays.

 

[commish]

Haha, this thread has turned to shit. What is going on here?? Webber better than Charles? Dirk?

 

[ph33nix]

Wide open looks don't matter for the Heat. We're praying either way

 

[Dominican Power]

I'll take Webber at the 4 over Dirk.

 

[vas_a_morir]

God damn, Lebron is hated so bad. Everyone always brings up MJ's iconic shot, but you can't tell me that shot is better than this one.

 

[reilo]

God damn, Lebron is hated so bad. Everyone always brings up MJ's iconic shot, but you can't tell me that shot is better than this one.

... and then Lebron hoisted the Larry O'Brien trop--- hahahaa, nevermind no he didn't.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

God damn, Lebron is hated so bad. Everyone always brings up MJ's iconic shot, but you can't tell me that shot is better than this one.

Did they win the series? Ok.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Did they win the series? Ok.

Yes, they won the series in game 2.

 

[KingGondo]

Also, Bosh is going to kill the Thunder on the offensive end. Just like the Celtics' interior defense went to hell when KG was forced to step outside to guard Bosh, so too will the Thunder's defense struggle when Ibaka is out of the paint.

I think the Heat are a terrible match up for the Thunder.

Both teams have interesting matchups, but the Thunder have a better chance of modifying how Miami plays than the other way around IMO.

There's really no better defensive matchup against LeBron and Wade than KD and Sefolosha.

I think playing the Spurs in the WCF was extremely valuable--OKC now understands what a championship performance takes--team effort on defense and ball movement on offense.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Ah yes, Corliss Williamson and Stoyakovich for the win.

Peja was getting MVP talk back then. He was damn good in his prime.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Did they win the series? Ok.

LOL wtf does winning the series matter? If you don't end up winning the whole thing, playoff game winners shouldn't matter. People used to choke Jordans dick after that meaningless shot in vs CLE too.