-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
2012 NBA Playoffs |OT2| OKC VS LA: Black on Black Crime
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
It's crazy how some people operate with short term memory only. It's fine if you criticize Gasol for his recent play, but it's just offensive that people disrespect what he has achieved in his career. Don't compare him to Boozer ffs, Gasol was a beast in the playoffs. He won it all, even World Champs with Spain... I'll be curious to see how driven he will be in the coming Olympics.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Why is it when the Lakers look bad it always boils down to "Kobe doesn't have help". In this case, it's wrong. They don't have triple A talent on that team, but the Lakers have a roster better than 90% of the league. Maybe if the Lakers didn't hand out enormous contracts to players like Ron Artest they'd have more money to flesh it out.
Also, the Lakers are the most transparent team in the league. At least when Dallas was getting blown out they fought back and almost won. Hell, the Clippers have more fight than the Lakers. The biggest problem on their team is not roster related, it's attitude. Bynum sulks if he doesn't get enough touches and if another team can match his size. If Gasol misses his first couple of shots then he mentally checks out. Ron Artest never checked in to begin with. The entire team, including Kobe, quits playing defense for entire quarters. I get the feeling that no one has fun and no one likes playing with one another.
Also, the Lakers are the most transparent team in the league. At least when Dallas was getting blown out they fought back and almost won. Hell, the Clippers have more fight than the Lakers. The biggest problem on their team is not roster related, it's attitude. Bynum sulks if he doesn't get enough touches and if another team can match his size. If Gasol misses his first couple of shots then he mentally checks out. Ron Artest never checked in to begin with. The entire team, including Kobe, quits playing defense for entire quarters. I get the feeling that no one has fun and no one likes playing with one another.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Lakers... didn't hand out that contract to Ron Artest?
They traded for him. The point still stands. Their entire team is loaded with longterm contracts that frees up zero money.
They traded for him. The point still stands. Their entire team is loaded with longterm contracts that frees up zero money.
It was loaded with long-term contracts, yeah, but they were chipping up just fine too. Their team was constructed perfectly for winning - NOW its time to blow it up because age is catching with people and that desire looks gone.
They didn't make a bad decision that crippled them like Chicago did with Boozer. They played their cards right, got a ring, and now that the writing is firmly on the wall (I CALLED IT AFTER THE ORLANDO RING BITCHES) its time to blow it up before they end up in a 5th Hell like Detroit.
ThisWreckage
Banned
It was loaded with long-term contracts, yeah, but they were chipping up just fine too. Their team was constructed perfectly for winning - NOW its time to blow it up because age is catching with people and that desire looks gone.
They didn't make a bad decision that crippled them like Chicago did with Boozer. They played their cards right, got a ring, and now that the writing is firmly on the wall (I CALLED IT AFTER THE ORLANDO RING BITCHES) its time to blow it up before they end up in a 5th Hell like Detroit.
That's not going to happen. It's perfectly fine to build a championship team, but everyone knew that team was aging. They were aging when they were assembled. The Lakers have given away draft pick after draft pick.
They're at a point where if they try to trade Gasol they're not going to get any value for him. No one wants Ron Artest period. So they're stuck. They're not going to rebuild while Kobe is at the end of his career. It won't happen.
That's not going to happen. It's perfectly fine to build a championship team, but everyone knew that team was aging. They were aging when they were assembled. The Lakers have given away draft pick after draft pick.
They're at a point where if they try to trade Gasol they're not going to get any value for him. No one wants Ron Artest period. So they're stuck. They're not going to rebuild while Kobe is at the end of his career. It won't happen.
Ron Artest's defense never fell off - that's what he was brought in to do. And he did it. He'd still be the key to defending Durant and LBJ and keeping Kobe from having to guard the opposing team's best wing.
What you're describing would've been equal to adamantly refusing to move Odom, resigning Shannon, keeping Fish. LA didn't do any of these things. Pau's value is just fine, especially with his deal coming to a close soon. Depending on how he feels, his committing to the Lakers, or another team, can be an asset in the future.
They aren't hamstrung by any means.
They traded for him. The point still stands. Their entire team is loaded with longterm contracts that frees up zero money.
doesn't matter in this discussion I'm pretty sure they signed him for the MLE
From Grantland: An open letter to Seattle SuperSonics fans from an OKC Thunder supporter
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...eattle-supersonics-fans-okc-thunder-supporter
Good article, and I think Brian Phillips hit the nail on the head (as usual).
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...eattle-supersonics-fans-okc-thunder-supporter
Good article, and I think Brian Phillips hit the nail on the head (as usual).
Grover Cleveland
Member
I don't think he's quite ready to call Steven A. and start demanding trades, but Kobe's obviously frustrated after last night and he has good reason to be. It's become apparent that he's not winning jackshit with this roster in its current form. It's one thing to be talent-deficient, it's another thing entirely to phone-in playoff games like Pau and Bynum did last night. Pau's fallen off hard and Bynum will never have the mental aptitude to get there. As someone said last night, trading Bynum for Howard might result in getting back a player with lower potential (especially on offense), but with Howard you're getting a known quantity. Howard knows how to work hard on both sides of the court, I'm not sure Bynum knows what hard work even means.
It won't hurt them in this series (Kobe Bean Bryant will not let the Lakers lose a Game 7 at home), but the Thunder will run this team off the court, I don't care how much World Peace they bring.
It won't hurt them in this series (Kobe Bean Bryant will not let the Lakers lose a Game 7 at home), but the Thunder will run this team off the court, I don't care how much World Peace they bring.
It's crazy how some people operate with short term memory only. It's fine if you criticize Gasol for his recent play, but it's just offensive that people disrespect what he has achieved in his career. Don't compare him to Boozer ffs, Gasol was a beast in the playoffs. He won it all, even World Champs with Spain... I'll be curious to see how driven he will be in the coming Olympics.
Not sure if you're trolling or not but Pau didn't play in Spain's championship game. True story.
Also, the Lakers are the most transparent team in the league. At least when Dallas was getting blown out they fought back and almost won. Hell, the Clippers have more fight than the Lakers.
Game 5: The Lakers were down 15 with 6:30 minutes to go and they came within 1. WTF are you talking about? Dallas got swept. In the first round. While defending a ring. They have lesser fights than even last season's Lakers.
The Lakers have given away draft pick after draft pick.
Giving away late first round picks for veterans when you're trying to win is bad how?
It was loaded with long-term contracts, yeah, but they were chipping up just fine too. Their team was constructed perfectly for winning - NOW its time to blow it up because age is catching with people and that desire looks gone.
The contract situation has gotten a lot better now anyway. There are only 4 players under contract for the 13-14 season (5 if they extends Bynum, which they most likely will, ugh). And everything comes off the book after that. They still have the amnesty to use.
I don't think he's quite ready to call Steven A. and start demanding trades, but Kobe's obviously frustrated after last night and he has good reason to be. It's become apparent that he's not winning jackshit with this roster in its current form. It's one thing to be talent-deficient, it's another thing entirely to phone-in playoff games like Pau and Bynum did last night. Pau's fallen off hard and Bynum will never have the mental aptitude to get there. As someone said last night, trading Bynum for Howard might result in getting back a player with lower potential (especially on offense), but with Howard you're getting a known quantity. Howard knows how to work hard on both sides of the court, I'm not Bynum knows what hard work even means.
It won't hurt them in this series (Kobe Bean Bryant will not let the Lakers lose a Game 7 at home), but the Thunder will run this team off the court, I don't care how much World Peace they bring.
Lakers losing game 7 at home would be wondrous.
I'd get married on that day.
Giving away late first round picks for veterans when you're trying to win is bad how?
Pat Riley gives no fuck about first round picks unless it's in the top 10 and he has someone he really likes
James disagreed with a reporter on Wednesday who suggested that the Pacers have gotten the upper-hand against the Heat this season .
"I don't think they've given us too many problems, personally," said James. "We played some great ball against them. I think we gave them more problems than they gave us."
Well ok
We need to blow them out in the first two games, and if it's a sweep I hope we do something like Jordan:Van Gundy Con Game::Wade/James:Vogel
and since when was going 1-3 against us with their lone win at home coming off a Heat b2b in OKC the night before having the upper hand?
iamshadowlark
Banned
Says the guy that has a "star"player that quit his way to a 15 win season.
Im late on this but wtf?
Not sure if you're trolling or not but Pau didn't play in Spain's championship game. True story.
Why would I be trolling? I know that, but he was still MVP of the tournament.
teruterubozu
Member
I don't think Pau ever got over being jabbed in the chest by Phil Jackson.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Pau has been awesome. No chips over the past few years without him. You guys suck
Im late on this but wtf?
Oh, you weren't a fan when Wade shut it down, Riley went on a "scouting" vacation, and the team finished the season starting people that no one in the d-league had ever heard of?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Why is it when the Lakers look bad it always boils down to "Kobe doesn't have help". In this case, it's wrong. They don't have triple A talent on that team, but the Lakers have a roster better than 90% of the league. Maybe if the Lakers didn't hand out enormous contracts to players like Ron Artest they'd have more money to flesh it out.
Also, the Lakers are the most transparent team in the league. At least when Dallas was getting blown out they fought back and almost won. Hell, the Clippers have more fight than the Lakers. The biggest problem on their team is not roster related, it's attitude. Bynum sulks if he doesn't get enough touches and if another team can match his size. If Gasol misses his first couple of shots then he mentally checks out. Ron Artest never checked in to begin with. The entire team, including Kobe, quits playing defense for entire quarters. I get the feeling that no one has fun and no one likes playing with one another.
Conceding a few seasons to get a chance at a title for 2-3 years, not to mention winning two back to back is a gamble every franchise and GM should take. Hell, that chance is taken just to keep an all-star with no guarantee to make the playoffs. Sometimes it pays off (DAL last year, 08 Celtics), more likely than not it doesn't (ATL, NYK, Dwight's ORL, 90's UTAH &POR, KG's TWolves and man many otthers). Lakers got a great return for their investment, now it's time to go the way of the celtics; slowly go from contender to dark horse to fringe playoff team to rebuild.
Can't be mad now once it's time to pay the piper, especially since it meant two more banners in the rafters.
Im late on this but wtf?
Come on, dude. At least learn your team's history. It's just 4 seasons ago.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Come on, dude. At least learn your team's history. It's just 4 seasons ago.
In his defense, the vast majority of Heat fans can't remember that far back either.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Yup. Heat tanked hard that season. Imagine if Beas had turned out...Come on, dude. At least learn your team's history. It's just 4 seasons ago.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Oh, you weren't a fan when Wade shut it down, Riley went on a "scouting" vacation, and the team finished the season starting people that no one in the d-league had ever heard of?
Thats a good joke but that wasn't what I was questioning. How the fuck did wade "quit"?
Knee and shoulder surgery before the season and another knee surgery during the last quarter of the season. Not to mention Zo and Shaq.
Edit: WTF are you all going on about above me?
Yup. Heat tanked hard that season. Imagine if Beas had turned out...
There's still hope in him, no?
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
There's still hope in him, no?
No.
Oh well, so he'll be gone then?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Listening to sports radio this morning has been hilarious and nauseating at the same time. Lakers are stuck with the vagina known as Gasol. We're stuck with the heartless prick named Bynum. We're stuck with players who couldn't care less about coming to play night in night out and a coach who is as clueless as they come.
Yes, Wade quit just like his blood brother LeBron. Neither Wade nor LeBron ever had to play with the type of cast that Kobe had in 2005-2007. Deal with it.
Thats a good joke but that wasn't what I was questioning. How the fuck did wade "quit"?
Knee and shoulder surgery before the season and another knee surgery during the last quarter of the season. Not to mention Zo and Shaq.
Edit: WTF are you all going on about above me?
Yes, Wade quit just like his blood brother LeBron. Neither Wade nor LeBron ever had to play with the type of cast that Kobe had in 2005-2007. Deal with it.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Inefficient chucker and a sieve on defense. Adelman left him on the bench near the end of the season...There's still hope in him, no?
You guys can have him though. Hes a good guy at least
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Oh well, so he'll be gone then?
The Wolves aren't tendering him the $8M qualifying offer. He'll be a UFA and somebody will overpay him.
Also, he sucks.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Lakers losing game 7 at home would be wondrous.
I'd get married on that day.
Honestly, while I don't want it to happen, it may be what needs to happen in order for the management to finally get a clue and realize that the Mike Brown experience has been a failure and that its time to ship out Bynum and Gasol and truly go balls in next season for one final run with Kobe while still building for the future. Do whatever it takes. Choose Kobe as player coach because lets be honest, he already is in everything but title. Keep Sessions, Kobe, and trade every other player on the roster.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Yes, Wade quit just like his blood brother LeBron. Neither Wade nor LeBron ever had to play with the type of cast that Kobe had in 2005-2007. Deal with it.
Yea and they learnt it from Kobe...
CoffeeJanitor
Member
You dont remember Kobe wanting out? You dont remember Bron taking a shit team to the finals? I mean hes not the lord and savior dude...Yes, Wade quit just like his blood brother LeBron. Neither Wade nor LeBron ever had to play with the type of cast that Kobe had in 2005-2007. Deal with it.
Lets go Young. Trade for DeRozan. Wouldn't he coming back to L.A. since he went to SC?
Trade what assets for Derozan? The only guys that are even close to his mediocre level the Lakers aren't trading for him (Kobe/Ramon/Bynum/Pau) and the Raptors aren't dumping him for a first round pick and some 4th big like Jordan Hill, or Artests awful contract.
You dont remember Kobe wanting out? You dont remember Bron taking a shit team to the finals? I mean hes not the lord and savior dude...
You're not going to mention Kobe basically being shoeless joe jackson 2.0 in the finals against the Pistons? Have never seen a guy try harder to look good but also lose in any sport ever.
Honestly, while I don't want it to happen, it may be what needs to happen in order for the management to finally get a clue and realize that the Mike Brown experience has been a failure and that its time to ship out Bynum and Gasol and truly go balls in next season for one final run with Kobe while still building for the future. Do whatever it takes. Choose Kobe as player coach because lets be honest, he already is in everything but title. Keep Sessions, Kobe, and trade every other player on the roster.
How has it been a failure? This is an old top-heavy team that managed a 3rd seed in a very competitive Western conference in a shortened lockout year. Yes, they're struggling against a very young and good Denver team (with the best home court advantage in the league), but I don't see how that's on the coach. Gasol played just as poorly last year with Phil Jackson
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
You dont remember Kobe wanting out? You dont remember Bron taking a shit team to the finals? I mean hes not the lord and savior dude...
Kobe wanting out is different than pulling a LeBron during a deep playoff run. Kobe wanting out also put the management to the fire and helped get Gasol. So yea, you're wrong, again. Never said he was the savior, dude. That title goes to KingJames (though he has never actually saved his team from anything of significance). Kobe has put more blood, sweat, tears into every single season he plays than LeBron has in his entire career. When its all said and done, Kobe will have left it all out on the court while LeBron will have left his best off the court.
Trade what assets for Derozan? The only guys that are even close to his mediocre level the Lakers aren't trading for him (Kobe/Ramon/Bynum/Pau) and the Raptors aren't dumping him for a first round pick and some 4th big like Jordan Hill, or Artests awful contract.
You're not going to mention Kobe basically being shoeless joe jackson 2.0 in the finals against the Pistons? Have never seen a guy try harder to look good but also lose in any sport ever.
How was Malone in that series? Payton? The rest of the Lakers? Once again, Kobe gets shit on because he doesn't deliver 100% of the time even though he steps up when many other players slunk away, like the current series.
And screw you guys for making me turn into Konex today. Damn.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Kobe wanting out is different than pulling a LeBron during a deep playoff run. Kobe wanting out also put the management to the fire and helped get Gasol. So yea, you're wrong, again. Never said he was the savior, dude. That title goes to KingJames (though he has never actually saved his team from anything of significance). Kobe has put more blood, sweat, tears into every single season he plays than LeBron has in his entire career. When its all said and done, Kobe will have left it all out on the court while LeBron will have left his best off the court.
I absolutely love the piteous way you try to rationalize shit. Do keep on.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
I still think Lakers take game 7. Bynum has a great game, Gasol gets a double double Kobe shoots sub 45% and Lakersage goes back to being delusional about title hopes.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
This is the typical Laker fan thought of focusing entirely on the Lakers and ignoring their opponents (who finished with only 3 less wins by the way)
This is a Lakers squad with two of the most skilled big men in the league, a top 3 player in the league, so yea, forgive me if I blame it on the team for not showing up. BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T. We're the Lakers up 3-1 during this series? Yes? YES. They have fallen apart and the opposing team has capitalized. That is all there is to it.
I absolutely love the piteous way you try to rationalize shit. Do keep on.
Sorry, not all of us can earn the purple heart in the rough and tumble war of high school debates.
Do you know what "shut it down" means? Paul Pierce did the exact same thing that year. It happens all the time when big name guys get hurt and their teams want to fold the season anyways.Thats a good joke but that wasn't what I was questioning. How the fuck did wade "quit"?
Knee and shoulder surgery before the season and another knee surgery during the last quarter of the season. Not to mention Zo and Shaq.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Are you just going to ignore that Kobe has been shit in the finals as well? Several times? Just sayingKobe wanting out is different than pulling a LeBron during a deep playoff run. Kobe wanting out also put the management to the fire and helped get Gasol. So yea, you're wrong, again. Never said he was the savior, dude. That title goes to KingJames (though he has never actually saved his team from anything of significance). Kobe has put more blood, sweat, tears into every single season he plays than LeBron has in his entire career. When its all said and done, Kobe will have left it all out on the court while LeBron will have left his best off . Damn.
Kobe wanting out is different than pulling a LeBron during a deep playoff run. Kobe wanting out also put the management to the fire and helped get Gasol. So yea, you're wrong, again. Never said he was the savior, dude. That title goes to KingJames (though he has never actually saved his team from anything of significance). Kobe has put more blood, sweat, tears into every single season he plays than LeBron has in his entire career. When its all said and done, Kobe will have left it all out on the court while LeBron will have left his best off the court.
How was Malone in that series? Payton? The rest of the Lakers? Once again, Kobe gets shit on because he doesn't deliver 100% of the time even though he steps up when many other players slunk away, like the current series.
And screw you guys for making me turn into Konex today. Damn.
Malone was gimpy as fuck. Shaq played great but Kobe was AWFUL in four out of the five games. Dude was also getting run ragged by Richard Hamilton like Hamilton was some combo of Reggie and Jordan. Haven't seen a player try less in a playoff game than Kobe in that finals.
Kobe's awful shooting/awful shot selection/non effort on Defense
Supporting cast missing open jumpers
Payton being too old to play good D, Fisher being too overrated to play good D
Those are the three reasons they lost. Wasn't Kobe alone but he was the biggest reason.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I agree. No way denver bests them 3 games in a row...I still think Lakers take game 7. Bynum has a great game, Gasol gets a double double Kobe shoots sub 45% and Lakersage goes back to being delusional about title hopes.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Are you just going to ignore that Kobe has been shit in the finals as well? Several times? Just saying
And are you going to ignore there is a difference of having a shitty FG% laden series and still helping your team in other facets of the game while still mentally showing up and then pulling a LeBron and mentally not showing up AT ALL? But hey, CHECK HIS $TAT$!
This is a Lakers squad with two of the most skilled big men in the league, a top 3 player in the league, so yea, forgive me if I blame it on the team for not showing up. BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T. We're the Lakers up 3-1 during this series? Yes? YES. They have fallen apart and the opposing team has capitalized. That is all there is to it.
1. Kobe is not a top 3 player. top 5 MAYBE
2. Yes, they have Kobe, two of the most skilled big men and that's it. They have one of the worst benches in the league
3. The Lakers played way above their level this year. They won a ridiculous number of close games. They're better than average (10th best offense, 13th best defense).
they'll probably win game 7, but I don't see them winning more than 2 games against OKC
iamshadowlark
Banned
Do you know what "shut it down" means? Paul Pierce did the exact same thing that year. It happens all the time when big name guys get hurt and their teams want to fold the season anyways.
I didn't really know what you meant by shutting it down but I wasn't really questioning you. Ryu made the original post.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Trying and sucking is different than checking out and suckingAnd are you going to ignore there is a difference of having a shitty FG% laden series and still helping your team in other facets of the game while still mentally showing up and then pulling a LeBron and mentally not showing up AT ALL? But hey, CHECK HIS $TAT$!
I guess
They both hurt their respective teams in different ways
iamshadowlark
Banned
Malone was gimpy as fuck. Shaq played great but Kobe was AWFUL in four out of the five games. Dude was also getting run ragged by Richard Hamilton like Hamilton was some combo of Reggie and Jordan. Haven't seen a player try less in a playoff game than Kobe in that finals.
Kobe's awful shooting/awful shot selection/non effort on Defense
Supporting cast missing open jumpers
Payton being too old to play good D, Fisher being too overrated to play good D
Those are the three reasons they lost. Wasn't Kobe alone but he was the biggest reason.
Naw man you just a hater. Kobe leaves BLOOD, SWEAT, & TEARS on the court man.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.