MetalGearZed
Member
Reuters Poll: https://twitter.com/SteveKornacki/status/826564194304679936 and full poll info(pdf) in link under tweet
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49 percent of Americans agree with Trump's travel ban
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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DontBeThatGuy
Member
They're simply on the same side.
ThatStupidLion
Member
i'm willing to bet 80% of people arent even aware of all the facts and details.
skullmuffins
Banned
To be in favor of stricter vetting implies by necessity that you think the current vetting procedures aren't enough.
Why aren't they enough?
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Then we wouldn't the UNITED States.
MetalGearZed
Member
not to sound melodramatic, but have we ever been united?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Not enough children being handcuffed, or people held for 20 hours with no food. That seems to be what the majority of these folks being polled are into.
Velcro Fly
Member
when we split the conservative half is going to be a theocracy that people flee
DontBeThatGuy
Member
26% of eligible voters.
All they did was ask you why. It is on those who want change to explain why it is needed.
Seductivpancakes
Member
One of my co workers today straight up told me immigrants have cars, while living in the projects and he can't afford one some therefore he supports the ban.
I was going to tell him that's his own fault, but I just wanted do my job.
He's not a conservative, but imagine a lot of Americans who are down on their luck or not very successful supporting the ban due to jealousy.
I was going to tell him that's his own fault, but I just wanted do my job.
He's not a conservative, but imagine a lot of Americans who are down on their luck or not very successful supporting the ban due to jealousy.
They aren't enough in the minds of many people in this country. When a terrorist act is committed and it's known that the crimes were committed by people that have visited foreign muslim countries/regions, or that were on the FBI's radar but never picked up this it signals a big fucking red flag: whatever is happening isn't enough.
Most people either don't have time or care to go into academic detail on why something works or not. They just want it fixed. That's why you elect officials to do the detail work for you and come up with remedies to these problems.
I do agree with you that being "low-information" is a problem that this country does face but until people try and understand WHY some of these people are "low-information" you won't reach them and you sure as fuck won't reach them with shit like this:
Trump got elected for a multitude of reasons, so blanketing everyone as a pile of racist bigot assholes is a mistake.
Says who? you? They elected Trump, he's doing what they elected him for. It's actually everyone else that has to explain why not to change it.
Sorry but if they support the ban like this and don't care what is happening to these people and their families they can be blanketed.
skullmuffins
Banned
also, I have specifically not called all supporters out as crazy right wing nut jobs. I did call out your post as an example of a low-information post - that's not calling you a nutjob, that's saying you're supporting a policy because it "sounds good" or because of a gut feeling, not supporting it because you've made a careful determination after reviewing all available facts and evidence and determined that our current policy is lacking and should be improved.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
49% of people have a greater chance at dying at the hands of a Christian white man than from a Muslim.
But some people care more about not having to deal with terrorism. It's like picking the least shittiest situation of two shit situations. I know it may be hard to understand that perspective but at least try.
And i called your post out for the irony that you did not actually read or comprehend what i was saying. i did not or do not support his executive order, just to repeat myself again to you.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Greater chance of a toddler shooting them.
There is no practical justification for the ban. We have not been having terrorist attacks commited by immigrants from these countries.
You are trying to justify hysteria.
Which means absolutely ZILCH because it has been shown that acts of terrorism has a psychological price far greater to societies than accidentally being shot by a toddler.
NullPointer
Member
Relevant:
NY Times: Refugees Entering the U.S. Already Face a Rigorous Vetting Process
Very short read. It's just a 20 point checklist with a super short description of each step.
Has the system failed? Where? Certainly not in the seven countries on Trump/Bannon's list.
NY Times: Refugees Entering the U.S. Already Face a Rigorous Vetting Process
Very short read. It's just a 20 point checklist with a super short description of each step.
Has the system failed? Where? Certainly not in the seven countries on Trump/Bannon's list.
Kill Your Masters
Member
"Wir haben es nicht gewusst"
First of all, terrorism is an incredibly minor threat to the average American. We're talking of a base rate of dozens per year outside 9/11 (which may I remind you, wasn't committed by people from any of these countries).
Second, there is nothing to suggest banning immigrants from these countries will reduce terrorism. No immigrants from these nations have committed acts of terror in the United States in the last few decades. The worst act of terror in our nation's history by far wasn't commited by people from these nations.
Third, why should we support making decisions based upon what uninformed people want? We allow it because of democracy. Nobody said we should support their decision or consider it a good idea. Which it's fucking not.
skullmuffins
Banned
I didn't say you supported the EO, I said that kind of thinking was the reason there was such strong support of it. Slight difference.
Also,
http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc...-or-legal-residents-infographic/#369e7942482c
for some real numbers. Are stricter visa vetting procedures going to do enough to decrease terrorism to make it worthwhile, considering the costs and the low existing risk of terror attacks commited by visa holders? (Not just financial cost, but the increased hurdles for people who just want to move here, study, vacation, flee horrible places, the potential decrease in relations with the affected nations, etc.)
you can't just say we should do everything possible to try and reduce terrorism no matter what. that's not rational or feasible.
The majority of people make decisions despite their lack of comprehensive information.
The trick in the future of advancing our species will be making a universal baseline or foundation for comprehensive information, without somehow bleeding into propaganda. A nonprofit model like Wikipedia seems like it's been a success for the most part.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Only because people are fucking idiots. And that's never a good justification for anything.
Hell, if anything, banning these countries is only going to make it easier for terrorist groups to recruit people (and they'll be us born people recruited) rather than keep you safe.
Right, but people will see this chart and interpret it as another reason to ban any further people coming here and having children here. Understand? I'm just trying to make people understand where others could be coming from. It may not be a place of bigotry is all i'm saying.
Let me try and make another example- France has one of, if not the largest muslim populations in the world. There are a lot of people here, i'd reckon a majority of people in the U.S, that sees what happens in France and the huge problem they have there and rather choose not to have anymore immigration from muslim territories. Period. That's not a place of bigotry, it's a place of fear, a fundamental fear of differing values.
And that isn't a justification either. If anything you'll just make the case for Trump stronger with his supporters.
I think this is a factor, but far from the main reason why people support it. There are definitely a large contingent of people who don't understand what issues this ban will create locally or globally. Not to mention that you've got people like Spicer coming in day-in and day-out intentionally spreading misinformation about the ban and everything surrounding it, thus making it harder to tell what the ban even is at this point.
A portion of the 49% will come around eventually I hope.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Most people that aren't on the east and west coast are going to be still be pro-Trump by the end of the week.
When Bannon says they only get more powerful the more the media/liberals panic, he's right; it makes them look more powerful the more chaotic things look. Trump ran as anti-establishment so chaos is perceived as a proof of him delivering on what he ran on.
It will take an economic downturn for Republicans to lose their majority in 2018, and one they can't disguise as a sign of a pro-America revolution going through birth pains.
When Bannon says they only get more powerful the more the media/liberals panic, he's right; it makes them look more powerful the more chaotic things look. Trump ran as anti-establishment so chaos is perceived as a proof of him delivering on what he ran on.
It will take an economic downturn for Republicans to lose their majority in 2018, and one they can't disguise as a sign of a pro-America revolution going through birth pains.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Ah simple reasoning to complex answers.
People should hit with "Did you forget slavery" when complaing about BLM.
skullmuffins
Banned
You're the one who said you'd be OK with supporting stricter vetting for visas. I'm still trying to get your reasoning on that. Or are you saying you're just that afraid of terrorists and you don't actually have a good basis for your belief beyond that.
So does a fucking shark attack. That doesn't mean we should deal with the sharks before we deal with guns.
There is no evidence this will be effective, it's born from irrational fear, and it limits peoples' freedom. I don't care if it makes people "feel safer"; an unfounded feeling of safety is not worth our dignity.
Do we live in France? We already barely take in any people from the nations in the executive order. Our Muslim population is not the same as France's, and it will never look like France's.
So again, the fear is unfounded. Hysteria. And supporting policies based on hysteria is laughable.
Megalosaro
Banned
This is going to piss off some people, but we need to stop focusing on Trumps supporters and focusing on the real enemy. Trump, his cabinet and GOP reps and senators that back him
You're just wasting your breath. And for what? To make yourself feel better? I've seen too many people on here act like theyre doing something by arguing with and shouting down his voters. That's masturbation.
That is exactly what trump wants. For use to vent on each other. That's fake action. Get out there and do your job.
You're just wasting your breath. And for what? To make yourself feel better? I've seen too many people on here act like theyre doing something by arguing with and shouting down his voters. That's masturbation.
That is exactly what trump wants. For use to vent on each other. That's fake action. Get out there and do your job.
It makes me so mad that the same portion of the electorate that came out of this election screaming about how no one is bother to listen to or understand their points of views on things, are the same people who basically have no desire to listen to or understand any of the other people or cultures around them in the world. I grew up in the midwest, annoyed at being told how un-traveled and uncultured I was all the time, but god damn mid-westerners, you're not helping yourselves look any better with this shit.
The only consolation I have at this point is that rural populations are declining. Not rapidly enough, but they're declining. I wonder if the Democrats can make some sort of concerted effort in the next few years to move people to these redneck areas.
The only consolation I have at this point is that rural populations are declining. Not rapidly enough, but they're declining. I wonder if the Democrats can make some sort of concerted effort in the next few years to move people to these redneck areas.
And a lot of people here think it should be even less. Are they bigots because of that? I wouldn't say so. France has a problem on their hands.
x24hrs2livex
Banned
I'll give the other 10% the benefit of the doubt and assume they'll be swayed to not agree with the ban.
Elfforkusu
Member
So, 49% agree with some generalized version of the ban, but not necessarily the specifics (which most will have no idea about).
And who will inform them of the specifics...?
And who will inform them of the specifics...?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's definitely easier for certain individuals to embrace fear-mongering, further demonization, and hysteria directed at certain groups of people that aren't actually statistically a threat than it is our very own festering homegrown right-wing extremists infecting our country from the inside, who are completely enamored with a toxic gun culture that so many Trump supporters celebrate. Or all these fucking Nazi's. Or some orange monster and his cronies trying take away healthcare insurance away from millions of people.
But no, they're far more concerned about refugees fleeing from horrific situations, or greencard/visa holders, or the undocumented doing menial work they want no part of. (while enjoying the low-low prices of those products)
I wonder why that is.
Social media.
Yes, they are bigots. Thinking that banning several nations of people from entering the country is justified because there was a terrorist attack in France (even though the situations are nothing alike) is unfounded bigotry.
And you wouldn't be wrong in saying there's a problem there and that there's a lot of racist people in this country. But to go and make blanket statements about every trump supporter, or every supporter of certain parts of this "ban" .....what better are you or anyone else here?
Imagine if a thread was created making blanket statements about all muslims (which happens), this entire sub section of the forum goes up in flames and that poster most likely gets banned.
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