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[lh032]

Yet to play the game ,anybody can explain to me ?
Is it the challenges were too easy ?

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Doom The Dark Ages is the best Doom game along with Doom 3.

 

[poppabk]

This just seems like elitism. People have been using cheats and mods for decades - hell there used to be hardware specfically for this.
He is ok with this just as long as it isnt readily available to the masses.

 

[kikkis]

I agree but reasoning was poor. I think it often just leads to poor balance, why bother when in a way it's players fault for not tweaking it well

 

[Danknugz]

TL;DR?

I'm not against difficulty sliders, but I have to admit that they give me a vibe of "we didn't balance the game so have fun doing that yourself".

at this point i'm just grateful there no base building for crying out loud

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Not that I know who this even is, but I completely agree and don't think it's a good precedent... particularly for action-heavy games which are absolutely reliant on their difficulty balance.

 

[Ozriel]

Yes, every person is different yet somehow tens of millions of people have played and loved games without these sorts of ridiculous sliders. Like, nobody complained there were no sliders in Super Mario 64. The idea that we need this or it helps is ridiculous.

Just looking at it from my POV, I boot up this fucking game, what sliders are best for me? how the fuck should I know? I didn't design the game.

Again, the job of a game designer is to design the game and understand how their game best operates.

"I don't need them so nobody needs them" is quite the take indeed.

How is an optional feature you can easily ignore 'ridiculous'?

 

[clarky]

Yes, every person is different yet somehow tens of millions of people have played and loved games without these sorts of ridiculous sliders. Like, nobody complained there were no sliders in Super Mario 64. The idea that we need this or it helps is ridiculous.

Just looking at it from my POV, I boot up this fucking game, what sliders are best for me? how the fuck should I know? I didn't design the game.

Again, the job of a game designer is to design the game and understand how their game best operates.

That's why they have 4 regular difficulty settings just like every other game in the world.

Not sure why you are just ignoring that fact. Seems to me you are just crying about nothing.

Forum first that more options are now bad.

 

[calico]

Because I expect game designers to design the game. If these sliders end up with settings that result in a superior game then that shows they should have made the game with those settings.

The player is the variable they can't control. Settings which might be superior for the ability/preference of one player might be terrible for another.

edit: nvm, plenty of other people already pointed this out.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

The player is the variable they can't control. Settings which might be superior for the ability/preference of one player might be terrible for another.

edit: nvm, plenty of other people already pointed this out.

Auto-sprint shouldn't be an option, it should be on by default because the game is almost unplayable on normal walking speed with all the projectiles around. Game designers shouldn't even consider players speed as a subject of some choice here.

It's an option for the sake of option. So I can see where he is coming from. Considering how transformative some sliders are and how basic difficulty levels are not even touching theme, this really shows lack of any vision.

 

[Kataploom]

It's a game, they can put any limitation they want anyway, as much as I respect and defend From Software for not putting an easy mode in their games, I'll also respect Id Soft and anyone else that does because that's their game vision

 

[RavenSan]

First, I oppose exposing a game's internal workings. As Bismarck said, people shouldn't see how sausages or politics are made. Revealing too much strips a game of its magic, reducing it to a tool like Photoshop. I want to experience a creator's vision with their imprint intact. Otherwise, it's like reading Lovecraft's Shadow over Innsmouth but using sliders to simplify its vocabulary, add humor, or toss in a busty barmaid. No, thank you.

oh my god what a pretentious douchenozzle. I immediately hate this guy.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

Now, onto reasons I feel more strongly about.

First, I oppose exposing a game's internal workings. As Bismarck said, people shouldn't see how sausages or politics are made. Revealing too much strips a game of its magic, reducing it to a tool like Photoshop. I want to experience a creator's vision with their imprint intact. Otherwise, it's like reading Lovecraft's Shadow over Innsmouth but using sliders to simplify its vocabulary, add humor, or toss in a busty barmaid. No, thank you.

Magic. Lovecraft... I don't know bro you're getting a little too pompous for my tastes. Really looking to elevate the 'artistry' of what you do innit.

Second, exposing parameters turns ferocious hellspawns into emotionally sterile bots with a basic set of instructions. It's like watching a sci-fi or fantasy film where the wires, green screens, or mocap suits are still visible. Filmmakers strive for immersion, making us forget the blood is ketchup and the backgrounds are CGI. I don't see a reason for games to be any different here.

The second point is essentially the same as the first point. But he throws in that he's a "muh immersion" gamer. Not a big fan of "muh immersion games"... maybe I should make a big huge rant about how they just plain shouldn't exist because I don't like them.

Third, such a broad range of options weakens the sense of community around a game. Anyone who's beaten a FromSoftware title cherishes the achievement, knowing they're part of a group of madmen, nerds, and hardcore gamers. Mastery and Autonomy are often cited as pillars of great games, but we overlook the third: Relatedness. Whether single-player or not, games thrive on devoted fanbases.

May seem odd coming from a dude posting about video games on a video game forum but the sense of some greater community doesn't do much for me. In the lead up to Path of Exile 2's Early Access some fellow gaffers were absolutely raging about some website using a pre-launch build to start building guide content and I couldn't find a way to give a fuck or even understand their position.

Fourth, laying out every option feels like the developers are waving a white flag. For fifty years, game creators delivered engaging challenges without extreme granularity -- what changed? Saying "set it up however you like" shifts the responsibility for fun from developer to player. At least broad difficulty settings like Easy, Normal, or Hard are a compromise, preserving some of the magic.

Shut up with muh magic already. Some things really depend on the game.. I can't really discuss the Doom reboots specifically as I'm still working up to that Doom (2016) in my backlog that still kinda feels like it was released yesterday... but... sliders for days gave a game like Madden so much more life than it otherwise would have had. Madden with a canonical difficulty and no sliders would be awful. (granted I haven't played Madden in 15 years)

Fifth, small details matter immensely. Anyone who's missed a train by two seconds gets this. If Doom offered difficulty levels plus a Custom Mode for tweaking, I'd find it less objectionable -- not ideal, but less troubling -- than the current approach.

Isn't that essentially what the game has, some difficulty settings but you can tweak them? Just stick with the basic difficulty setting then, what are you stupid or something? It's not like the game boots up and forces you to make 100 decisions on sliders with no defaults, does it?

Sixth, relatedly, many games can be modified via ini files, cheat programs, or console commands. The original Doom had powerful cheats like IDDQD or IDKFA, but they were hidden, not openly promoted. That distinction matters. There's a psychological difference between quietly tweaking a game, knowing it's outside the "intended experience," and being officially encouraged by the creators to do so.

(Side note: the old Doom games respected themselves enough to disable almost all cheats on Nightmare mode and above.)

This is all in dude's head. Nobody has ever played this guy's game in history and paused to think "But I wonder what Adrian would think about me editing this .ini file". You ain't Jesus. Nobody's got a WWAD bracelet.

Seventh, and perhaps most crucially, consider the attached image, it's a famous flow chart every designer knows by heart.

Not really a flow chart though is it? I mean it's got the FLOW section but.. it's not... a flow... shit did i just throw myself into a pun war for no reason? Yes yes I did.

It shows that insufficient challenge leads to boredom, while excessive challenge causes frustration. One might argue this supports customizable difficulty, letting players adjust sliders to stay in the "flow" zone.

I mean it's possibly the most obvious interpretation if it.

I disagree. Not everyone can craft a Michelin-star dish, and even fewer can expertly tune a game's parameters to sustain flow. That's hard even for experienced, talented designers, let alone average players. Plus, dishes prepared by someone else always taste different from self-made meals.

First he's Lovecraft, now he's a fucking Master Chef.

To extend the culinary metaphor, broad difficulty levels -- again, like Easy, Normal, Hard -- are like menu items: burgers, cheeseburgers, or veggie burgers. Pick one. Extensive customization, however, is like sending players to a grocery store with instructions to buy ingredients and cook their own burger, including the bun. Few will thrive with that.

You're extending a very goofy analogy to begin with but it's completely falling apart here. Easy/normal/hard don't seem to be a sensible analogy for different menu items. Extensive customization is more like "hey hold the onions", "give me a little extra ketchup" or "can you please prepare this without peanuts because it turns out I got helicopter parented in my own little bubble instead of getting to play in the dirt and now even the faintest whiff of peanut dust will kill me". Ultimately options I'd like to have, but hey I guess it feeds into this dude's pretentiousness. Probably jerks it to videos of Salt Bae doing his jagoff salt toss while thinking to himself "the filthy peasants would never know how much salt to throw on a steak"

In conclusion, any one of these seven reasons is enough for me to oppose open, extensive customization. This has nothing to do with Accessibility, which is vital and games should absolutely support visually or hearing-impaired players, among others. Distinguishing Accessibility from difficulty modifiers is a topic for another post, but it's not that complicated.

Oh shit I guess my Peanut Death analogy falls under accessibility so he'd be good with that. But fuck me if I like a little extra ketchup.

If someone enjoys Doom's approach, that's fine. Directors and writers have their styles, and I have my design philosophy -- not everyone needs to agree. But I hope I've clearly explained my perspective.

Really a weak argument all around. The muh art and muh immersion stuff can more appropriately just be applied to the story/sound/graphics of a game. There's not much analog for difficulty in a movie or a fucking meal. They gotta make Doom to cater to someone who's been playing FPS since well.. DOOM and someone who is just picking it up with the latest Doom. No single difficulty setting is going to realistically handle that. IMO a single difficulty only makes sense for muh story games, and then for difficult games that need a canonical challenge level. And even then some modifiers to kick it up a notch are still welcome. Even a difficult game tends to become easy once you put enough time into it.

"Everyone's got their own style" is such a weird way to end his tweet after spending that much effort shitting on difficulty options. Hades post-game difficulty sliders are just pure fucking win. Would this guy seriously argue that Hades or the aforementioned Madden would be better without sliders? Would anyone?

 

[xrnzaaas]

I like how custom difficulty is making a big comeback, allowing to change main elements (like puzzles or combat) or tweak very minor things. It's definitely better than being stuck with the creator's vision and realizing it's not what I enjoy with no way of changing that.

Main difficulties should stay of course and promise the best balance. But custom with tons of options as the additional one? Sure.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I was against the sliders initially on reveal.

But after playing it, I kinda dig them.

They have kept it pretty simple and its easy to do. You notice changes immediately. Doesn't take too long to find a good balance.

 

[DelireMan7]

Anyone who's beaten a FromSoftware title cherishes the achievement, knowing they're part of a group of madmen, nerds, and hardcore gamers

I can't take this seriously xD Especially than in Souls game there is an organic difficulty sliders : some builds will make some bosses real jokes.

And if you need to be sure that other people struggle like you to beat a boss/game to enjoy it, I'd say you have some personal issue.
But I am tired of this mentality in Souls community ("Hard = good", "Easy = bad").

At first I saw custom difficulty settings (and since Dark Souls difficulty selection) a "bad" thing. But after playing with it on Last of Us 2, I find it to be a great thing (I wanted to be able to take few hits before dying, the enemy to be still hard but have some decent ammo loot drop rate to experiment with weapons).
You can have the experience you're enjoying the most.
Also recently I found that playing not the highest difficulty or "Normal" is also a cool experience.

But I am all for dev doing the difficulty they want, without necessarily putting an adjustable difficulty in order the game can be enjoyed by the maximum amount of people. It's nice to have strong design choice.

 

[AMC124c41]

Yes, every person is different yet somehow tens of millions of people have played and loved games without these sorts of ridiculous sliders. Like, nobody complained there were no sliders in Super Mario 64. The idea that we need this or it helps is ridiculous.

Just looking at it from my POV, I boot up this fucking game, what sliders are best for me? how the fuck should I know? I didn't design the game.

Again, the job of a game designer is to design the game and understand how their game best operates.

See all of that is well and good except at no point did anyone, including the game devs, say that you're supposed to mess around with a bunch of sliders before playing and enjoying the game.
You see, those sliders are additional options which you can mess with and not mandatory for your experience.
Just pick a damn difficulty from the list and play the game, easy peasy that!

 

[DelireMan7]

Yes, every person is different yet somehow tens of millions of people have played and loved games without these sorts of ridiculous sliders. Like, nobody complained there were no sliders in Super Mario 64. The idea that we need this or it helps is ridiculous.

Just looking at it from my POV, I boot up this fucking game, what sliders are best for me? how the fuck should I know? I didn't design the game.

Again, the job of a game designer is to design the game and understand how their game best operates.

Also don't forget all the optional different control schemes you have to choose, the optional graphical option you have to choose, the optional languages you have to choose, the optional sound options you have to set up before playing the game.

Damn, all these optional features are so annoying

/s

 

[Zathalus]

Disagree. When it comes to Doom The Dark Ages I like the demons being ultra aggressive, with projectiles being as fast as possible with a tight parry window. Now obviously putting the difficulty up would give that to me but at the same time the generic difficulty reduces the drops (ammo) as well. So I customized the difficulty to have the demons be aggressive and all that, but I still have a healthy amount of ammo drop. Just makes the combat more fun for me.

 

[calico]

I think it's a valid choice to just have one fixed difficulty setting and take the view that this is the set challenge the player has to overcome (or not). But 'can you overcome this set challenge?' is not always what a game is going for.

I would argue even if you fix the difficulty you are still not really asking two players to overcome the same challenge if eg. one of them has lightning fast reflexes and the other has shit reflexes. It could be trivially easy for one and impossible for the other. 'Just have better reflexes' is not a whole lot different to 'just don't be colourblind'.

 

[Denton]

Who is this adrian chlamydia and why should i care about his dumb opinion?

Creator of Painkiller, Bulletstorm, Ethan Carter, Gorky 17 and Witchfire.
Also, he is right of course. But it is a subjective matter, he prefers when games are made with creator's intent, while others prefer if games are tools to be personalized and tuned by end consumer.

 

[RoboFu]

It's the problem with "participation trophies". It lessens the over all experience. See kids .. you don't have to work hard or become better at anything!

 

[diffusionx]

Also don't forget all the optional different control schemes you have to choose, the optional graphical option you have to choose, the optional languages you have to choose, the optional sound options you have to set up before playing the game.

Damn, all these optional features are so annoying

agreed

See all of that is well and good except at no point did anyone, including the game devs, say that you're supposed to mess around with a bunch of sliders before playing and enjoying the game.
You see, those sliders are additional options which you can mess with and not mandatory for your experience.
Just pick a damn difficulty from the list and play the game, easy peasy that!

talk about missing the point

 

[nnytk]

µ

Creator of Painkiller, Bulletstorm, Ethan Carter, Gorky 17 and Witchfire.
Also, he is right of course. But it is a subjective matter, he prefers when games are made with creator's intent, while others prefer if games are tools to be personalized and tuned by end consumer.

Exactly. Creators intent!

I disliked the difficulty sliders in Jedi Fallen Order.

I love how Elden Ring let's you change your path or let's you grind a bit more levels, fine-tune gear, if a boss is too hard. There's no difficulty option or sliders, there's just the game and the player has agency towards how difficult he wants to make it for himself.

I often pick normal in games where I can choose. Yet I did really enjoy "hardcore mode" Battlefield 4 servers with no HUD and shorter TTK. But that's something else I guess.

All in all, whining about this difficulty slider thing is as "first world problems" as it gets. But being a passionate gamer and artist myself, "creators intent" or "vision" is why I play the games I play. And (art) direction is key. Difficulty sliders feel kind of lazy to me. But to each their own.

 

[GymWolf]

Creator of Painkiller, Bulletstorm, Ethan Carter, Gorky 17 and Witchfire.
Also, he is right of course. But it is a subjective matter, he prefers when games are made with creator's intent, while others prefer if games are tools to be personalized and tuned by end consumer.

The game has classic difficulty modes, so no, he is not right or at the very least it's highly debatable.

 

[The Cockatrice]

cant comment until I played it and finished it.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Don't like it? Don't touch it. It's not like it doesn't have standard difficulties. It's just optional.

 

[mitch1971]

Gamers complaining about more options, again. oh dear.

 

[calico]

The game allowing you to grind out levels to make your character statistically OP enough to overcome the challenge without gitting gud is just a difficulty slider but with some busywork attached.

 

[DelireMan7]

I love how Elden Ring let's you change your path or let's you grind a bit more levels, fine-tune gear, if a boss is too hard. There's no difficulty option or sliders, there's just the game and the player has agency towards how difficult he wants to make it for himself.

So there is a difficulty modifier in Elden Ring...

I get it that it's in the game and not a menu but it's the same thing basically. Either you want to "git gud" and don't farm or you can go farm and come back later to obliterate the boss.
Other game decide to put that in a menu.

You can prefer one or the other but in the end it's a similar thing.
Like the difficulty slider are optional, the farming is optional in Elden Ring. Some people will claim that farming and overleveling in Souls game are not the true game like some people claim difficulty sliders are a problem.

Overall difficulty sliders are just an optional menu you don't have to engage with if you don't want. Like farming is in RPG.

 

[Hideous Snake]

What's so hard about having options? If people wanna play easy, they can go play easy. If mr. Hardcore mental 1% speedrunner wanna go with the highest difficulty, then go with that.

Where's the fucking issue exactly?

 

[thief183]

I didn't buy the game for this reason, and because it is too slow.

 

[Brakum]

Yeah i dont want to create my own difficulty ever. It exists, whatever, but don't bother me when i start a game with all those options. i don't care, i doubt most people do, so don't waste most peoples time. Just have the minority have to look for the settings they want instead of forcing everyone to go through stupid menus.

 

[clarky]

Yeah i dont want to create my own difficulty ever. It exists, whatever, but don't bother me when i start a game with all those options. i don't care, i doubt most people do, so don't waste most peoples time. Just have the minority have to look for the settings they want instead of forcing everyone to go through stupid menus.

Youll like Doom then because thats exactly what it does.

 

[poppabk]

I didn't buy the game for this reason, and because it is too slow.

There is a slider for that.

 

[Hari Seldon]

There is a place for niche sweaty games, but a mainline Doom game is not that. It is about drinking beer and shooting shit. Fuck off with this elitism around gaming. This is a hobby for fun not serious business.

 

[j0hnnix]

Every single person in the world is different. Your idea of a superior game is completely different to mine.

They have the normal curated difficulties just like every other game on the market.

Offering more options is not a cop out. These guys have made some of the greatest games of all time. Again i don't see the issue.

This right hear says it all for me.

Its another social media opinion piece like any other , from another creative director who would do things differently. This doesn't mean his way is wrong or right or the way Doom's new difficulty sliders are wrong or right it just means more options for more players that's not bad at all, and I'm fine with it. Ill jump into a soulsborne game because i woke up that morning wanting to whip myself with barbed wire and then the next morning ill wake up wanting to just play a game for the story without having to deal with shitty difficulty. I'm all for options..

 

[StueyDuck]

Oh no, not adrian someone or other... how can i possibly enjoy a game now.

While i have nothing against accessibility I do think gaming, PC gaming in particular has far too many settings or options. I mean freaking cod you need a pull out your trig 101 book from uni to understand what the fuck your sensitivities on you mouse or controller are doing.

sometimes starting a game involves almost an hour of just diving into each and every single setting, just to get the game to work

 

[Brakum]

Youll like Doom then because thats exactly what it does.

It's not. I'm playing it right now. Starting the game i had popups telling me how i could customize difficulty, and then last menu when i was starting the game was sliders with parry timers and shit.

 

[Hudo]

This all wouldn't have happened if they'd done a new Quake instead.

 

[clarky]

It's not. I'm playing it right now. Starting the game i had popups telling me how i could customize difficulty, and then last menu when i was starting the game was sliders with parry timers and shit.

The game, like most games is just letting you know its features first time playing. You can just ignore them and just pick the desired difficulty.

 

[Brakum]

The game, like most games is just letting you know its features first time playing. You can just ignore them and just pick the desired difficulty.

It is after picking the difficulty that all that shit appears. When you pick difficulty, there should just be an option that says custom. would be obvious to everyone what it means, and if you chose that, then they could bother you with the pop ups and additional menus.

It's like using a keyboard and the game having a pop up saying do you know that you can use a controller? you click it away and then the you're presented with a menu to change controller keybinds before you start the game. It makes no sense.

 

[thief183]

There is a slider for that.

But it increase the speed of everything, sounds too.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

But it increase the speed of everything, sounds too.

You can play it fast

 

[mopspear]

First, I oppose exposing a game's internal workings. As Bismarck said, people shouldn't see how sausages or politics are made. Revealing too much strips a game of its magic, reducing it to a tool like Photoshop. I want to experience a creator's vision with their imprint intact. Otherwise, it's like reading Lovecraft's Shadow over Innsmouth but using sliders to simplify its vocabulary, add humor, or toss in a busty barmaid. No, thank you.

I haven't felt games having "magic" in a very, very long time. I'm jealous of this guy if he can feel magic. I'd say adding RPG mechanics to so many genres did this, but I don't think it's a bad thing.

The quote he used means that politics and sausages are disturbing when you see how they are actually made. Unless the guys at id used actual Satanic coding principles, then he's misusing that quote.

 

[poppabk]

But it increase the speed of everything, sounds too.

What does that mean? I'm assuming the pitch is maintained, haven't tried it, but I would hope it doesnt sound like Benny Hill. But you would want them to be sped up, otherwise they would start overlapping trying to keep up with the action.

 

[ResilientBanana]

The game has like 6 or 7 difficulties preset, with the option to modify. There is no issue with this other than to stir up bullshit. The sliders are for additional fun and challenge if you so choose to use them. It's not a weakness to the game.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Options = bad. - Never said someone with at least half a brain.

 

[BigLee74]

Great options (and they have to be applauded for exposing them), probably just slightly mishandled in their presentation.

The game has standard difficulty selection options (a la every game ever). For most folk it's select and go.

All the additional tweaking and modifiers it provides should just be hidden under some 'advanced' section that will only be presented if you go looking for and deliberately expand.

Best of both worlds.

 

[phant0m]

It's the problem with "participation trophies". It lessens the over all experience. See kids .. you don't have to work hard or become better at anything!

It's a fucking video game boss. It's meant to be fun not a fucking achievement, and what's fun for you is different than what's fun for me or what's fun for someone else.

I think the sliders were a direct response to Eternal's reception.