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[DynamiteCop!]

So now we moved from "Sony 1st party are doing damage control, to ALL DEVS are doing damage control for PS5"

The guy in the interview doesn't even have any first hand experience with either system, he's just rattling off third party account from what he's heard. We already know where these systems computationally stand, we don't need some examination about the implications of computational forces, it's well established.

I think the most interesting part is this:

"The same can be said for consoles. Sony runs PlayStation 5 on its own operating system, but Microsoft has put a customized version of Windows on the Xbox Series X. The two are very different. Because Sony has developed exclusive software for the PlayStation 5, it will definitely give developers much more capabilities than Microsoft, which has almost the same directX PC and for its consoles."

It's quite possible that the Windows overhead will come with some disadvantage (just like when comparing consoles to PC).

I wonder how much. Also, doesn't Microsoft run the OS in a virtual machine? That should create even more overhead.

The second I read this I called total BS because the shell is stripped down to necessitive function, it's by no means PC Windows anymore and there's virtually no overhead. Also the fact that he's talking about Sony making new API's and Microsoft isn't, and yet Microsoft literally just announced DirectX 12 Ultimate... I mean come on....

 

[DynamiteCop!]

So what your saying is not all can tell a difference?

What?

 

[longdi]

Just close this thread.
This small time arabic Persian dude don't even touch a ps5 or series x devkit.

All he referred to was Mark Sony slides and inferring things in the most positive way based on his old assumptions

 

[Romulus]

Even PS5 gpu can run at high clock rate to close the gap, They still can't beat XSX GPU. We'll see.

My thing is, will 20% even equate to anything discernable without digital foundary lenses? I doubt it. Even with a 40% gap people could barely tell Xb1 vs ps4. Digital foundary was zooming in 300% just to see a slightly blurrier image. But now we have dynamic resolution, even lessening the already small gap.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Just close this thread.
This small time arabic Persian dude don't even touch a ps5 or series x devkit.

All he referred to was Mark Sony slides and inferring things in the most positive way based on his old assumptions

For real.

My thing is, will 20% even equate to anything discernable without digital foundary lenses? I doubt it. Even with a 40% gap people could barely tell Xb1 vs ps4. Digital foundary was zooming in 300% just to see a slightly blurrier image. But now we have dynamic resolution, even lessening the already small gap.

Yeah but there's a bit of a snag in this, the Series X has 44% more RT hardware on top of that computational rift. This means they could not only handle RT workloads simply not possible on the PS5, they would be able to do it with better performance because of the higher rasterization ceiling they've afforded themselves.

 

[dano1]

What?

You said 97% could tell a difference. So that leaves 3% that cant!! You said it not me.

 

[ghairat]

Very good interview. He really explains lots of things. I’m a very big believer of “either you are a bad driver in a Ferrari, or a good driver in a GT-R”

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You said 97% could tell a difference. So that leaves 3% that cant!! You said it not me.

No I said out of about 97% of tested enhanced titles, the One X holds the advantage whether that be performance, resolution, settings or a mix of all three.

Your implication here in this post is nonsense.

They certainly didn’t take advantage of the extra power with the Xbox X !

 

[-Arcadia-]

My thing is, will 20% even equate to anything discernable without digital foundary lenses? I doubt it. Even with a 40% gap people could barely tell Xb1 vs ps4. Digital foundary was zooming in 300% just to see a slightly blurrier image. But now we have dynamic resolution, even lessening the already small gap.

I think this is the unpopular truth.

No doubt that Series X advantages will show for those demanding the utmost clarity and quality, but it’s not going to be like Xbox vs. PS2, for instance.

 

[Entroyp]

Oh, that didn’t go as I expected at all. The asymmetric RAM design rears its ugly head one more time.

 

[Represent.]

Microsoft can't afford to have the shittier console, and no games. So I don't buy it.

 

[SonGoku]

The guy in the interview doesn't even have any first hand experience with either system, he's just rattling off third party account from what he's heard. We already know where these systems computationally stand, we don't need some examination about the implications of computational forces, it's well established.

Just close this thread.
This small time arabic Persian dude don't even touch a ps5 or series x devkit.

Not necessarily, he mentions NDA he can't talk about his own work, he could be avoiding violation by saying his statements are actually based on publicly available information.
He is an active developer with a impressive background, his opinions alone warrant a thread. If you don't like what he has to say just ignore the thread.

 

[dano1]

No I said out of about 97% of tested enhanced titles, the One X holds the advantage whether that be performance, resolution, settings or a mix of all three.

Your implication here in this post is nonsense.

Ok I’ll give you the win.

But you need to relax a little.
Both systems are going to be just fine.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Not necessarily, he mentions NDA, can't talk about his own work, he could be avoiding violation by saying his statements are actually based on publicly available information.

He is an active developer with a impressive background, his opinions alone warrant a thread. If you don't like what he says just ignore the thread.

Oh trust me, I'm ignoring a lot right now.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

Beautiful, old gamer here, but still enjoying the electricity of a new generation.
Raw console wars as 25 years ago, don't ever stop.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Ok I’ll give you the win.

But you need to relax a little.
Both systems are going to be just fine.

It's not about win or lose, it's about accuracy of information.

 

[Entroyp]

Are people questioning this guy’s credibility? He’s a third party dev so I assumed he’s legit.

 

[ethomaz]

Bullshit - you don't get to speak for this developer. In fact that specific statement is being laughed at and ridiculed across the internet.

That is actually bullshit kkkkkk

He said less than a second.

He probably is laughing at your lack of translations skills lol

 

[-Arcadia-]

As a side note, it’s weird to see some posters think that Sony is doing all this custom engineering, while Microsoft is just sitting back and shipping a PC Tower full of parts they have laying around.

Both companies have put many millions of dollars of research into getting the most out of their hardware with all kinds of hardware customizations and software solutions, and a simple look into the Series X details makes that blatantly obvious.

 

[ZywyPL]

In all fairness, Ryse looked really amazing. Sad I never got to play it.

From reading reviews, it sounds like Xbox's The Order:1886.

It is, a technical/artistic masterpiece (especially on PC), but little-to-no gameplay, you didn't miss much, if anything.

 

[Romulus]

For real.

Yeah but there's a bit of a snag in this, the Series X has 44% more RT hardware on top of that computational rift. This means they could not only handle RT workloads simply not possible on the PS5, they would be able to do it with better performance because of the higher rasterization ceiling they've afforded themselves.

I won't put any stock into RT benefits until I see like for like. Too many unknowns about how it will be used by devs. 44% more? Okay how do we know that, exactly? If true, will 44% be discernable? One thing I've noticed is this percentage gaps dont seem to add up like people expect, its usually very slight.

 

[dano1]

It's not about win or lose, it's about accuracy of information.

Is your 97% figure 100% accurate? Probably not ...

 

[Jtibh]

Man . Every time i see a thread about ps5 i regret clicking on it.
Xbox fans are cancer. They have to destroy everything.
All the time.
Will this be the tone for the next 7 years?
News flash. Its all about the games. And xbox didnt have games for almost a decade now.
Sony brings games.
Nintendo brings games.
Xbox gets you teraflops.

You can buy a ferrari or 10. What good is it to you when you can only drive it 3 months a year in the city or 120km on the highway?
Power means shit without content.
Netflix means shit with korean drama content.


What i can tell with confidence, If the ps5 is soo easy to develop for you be assured to have the most games and the most diversity that will bring us back to psone and ps2 times.
No more waiting 6 years for sequels.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I won't put any stock into RT benefits until I see like for like. Too many unknowns about how it will be used by devs. 44% more? Okay how do we know that, exactly? If true, will 44% be discernable? One thing I've noticed is this percentage gaps dont seem to add up like people expect, its usually very slight.

Because the amount of RT intersections in the GPU is directly related to the amount of shaders it has, and to a lesser extent CU's.

Enter 44% more RT hardware.

Is your 97% figure 100% accurate? Probably not ...

It's pretty accurate, just like I have the confidence to say that on average a One X build of a game would average about a 70% higher resolution than the same game on the PlayStation 4 Pro.

Nobody will contest it, these are pretty universally known metrics. The X is better in basically every scenario, the Pro has edge cases here and there which slight it.

 

[FranXico]

The takeaway from the article is that XsX is indeed more powerful, and likely PS5 ports will run at a somewhat lower resolution, especially later in the generation. PS5 seems to be very easy to develop for compared to Xbox.
The takeaway from the thread is that any developer who likes to develop for the PS5 is a shill or a fanboy. Trust only Richard Leadbetter or Gaming Jesus himself.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Just close this thread.

 

[SonGoku]

eah but there's a bit of a snag in this, the Series X has 44% more RT hardware on top of that computational rift. This means they could not only handle RT workloads simply not possible on the PS5

Yeah... No, the RT performance gap is the same as the compute gap which is to say 17% to 21%
PS5 has less RT units but they are clocked higher thus perform faster.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Everyone arguing the toss, has anyone actually seen a ps5?

 

[John254]

Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?

Technically, hypertheading has been on desktop computers since Pentium 4, and each physical core considers the CPU as two virtual cores, and in most cases helps with performance. Does the Series X feature allow the developer to decide for themselves whether they want to use these virtual cores or turn them off with more CPU clocks? And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not exactly a big deal to make a local decision from the start, so the use of hyperthreading is likely to be used at later time of the generation not at first.

Is this rendering engineer implying, that PS5 won't have hyperthreading?

If is this the case, i think, we can throw whole interview to the trash bin, because since Cerny's presentation it is known, that PS5 have it too (or not?)

 

[Ar¢tos]

..

If you read this dimwit’s interview, it’s clear he just has some hangup with Windows and DirectX.

And his gushing about Sony’s APIs and software is a real hoot, too. Like when Naughty Dog basically had to teach people how to use SPEs on the atrocious mega-flop Cell processor.

Why are you comparing ps3 development to ps5 development, instead of ps4 with ps5?
Do you have any idea of the amount of overhead and legacy crap that Windows and DirectX have in comparison with customized FreeBSD and an API written specifically for a specific set of hardware?
You can have a fully functional distro of FreeBSD using only 2GB disk space and 32MB ram.

 

[ethomaz]

I won't put any stock into RT benefits until I see like for like. Too many unknowns about how it will be used by devs. 44% more? Okay how do we know that, exactly? If true, will 44% be discernable? One thing I've noticed is this percentage gaps dont seem to add up like people expect, its usually very slight.

He is lying like usual.

It is about 18% difference if you take full clock.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Yeah... No, the RT performance gap is the same as the compute gap which is to say 17% to 21%
PS5 has less RT units but they are clocked higher thus perform faster.

You have no intrinsic knowledge of any kind that the shader frequency in any way relates to the operation of the RT cores. This also doesn't mitigate a substantial advantage in RT even if that were true.

You're peddling assumption as fact, the only fact we know is a 44% increase in intersections.

 

[ethomaz]

Is this rendering engineer implying, that PS5 won't have hyperthreading?

If is this the case, i think, we can throw whole interview to the trash bin, because since Cerny's presentation it is known, that PS5 have it too (or not?)

He was asked about Xbox and he replied about Xbox.

 

[FranXico]

He is lying like usual.

It is about 18% difference if you take full clock.

He's basing his assumption on RT scaling with the number of cores, irrespective of clock.

 

[ethomaz]

He's basing his assumption on RT scaling with the number of cores, irrespective of clock.

That is wrong.

Xbox has more units at lower clock... so difference is around 18% at full clock.

 

[SonGoku]

You have no intrinsic knowledge of any kind that the shader frequency in any way relates to the operation of the RT cores.

Neither do you, which is all the more evident by your flawed comparison

his also doesn't mitigate a substantial advantage in RT even if that were true.

Yes, 17-21%. Never denied the advantage but let's be accurate

 

[John254]

He was asked about Xbox and he replied about Xbox.

What?
If he was asked "Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of generation?" your reply as an informed rendering engineer should be "Hell no, because Playstation 5 have same technology too." Or not?

 

[metareferential]

How the hell did you guys get to 8 pages with the nothingness of that op is beyond me.

I was hoping for someone with direct work on the system(s).

From random youtubers to random devs.

 

[ethomaz]

What?
If he was asked "Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?" your reply as an informed rendering engineer should be "Hell no, becuase Playstation 5 have same technology too." Or not?

I don’t believe so.
He was asked about Xbox the. He replied how it could affect game development.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Neither do you, which is all the more evident by your flawed comparison

Yes, 17-21%. Never denied the advantage but let's be accurate

There's a difference, I'm saying what we do know, you're saying what you presume to know. There's a big divide there.

The burden of proof falls to you if you make a claim, you're claiming the gap is lessened because of frequency, however we have no knowledge if the raster frequency has any effect on the RT cores.

It's up to you to substantiate the claim that it does, and you presently will be completely unable to do so, so it's best to keep things grounded in known reality.

 

[Stuart360]

Some of the replies in this thread he he. Its the hope that kills you guys, the hope that kills you.

 

[Romulus]

Because the amount of RT intersections in the GPU is directly related to the amount of shaders it has, and to a lesser extent CU's.

Enter 44% more RT hardware.

Even at this max estimate here, I doubt the human eye will see much multiplatform differences. We don't even know how it'll be implemented or anything. These power gaps estimates just incredibly underwhelming unless its magnitudes more.

 

[Three]

My favorite part was when he compares it to the PS3. Looks like the op forgot to bold this part.

I made a very similar comparison before too. The PS3 was highly parallel. Its gflops performance was higher than the 360s but this meant that they had to write highly parallel code for the SPUs and this wasn't good for the console in its early years.

AMD doesn't think so, otherwise they wouldn't be pushing for 'Big Navi' GPUs.

And I'd think AMD knows more on their tech than Crytek would.

They do but you've willfully ignored what he was saying. Less but faster CUs are easier to program for and can give comparable performance especially as faster clocks make everything faster. PS3 comparison again. More CUs are the future just as CPU cores increased and highly parallel code needed to be written. In the case of PS3 it had to be extremely parallel and that was difficult.

More CUs are a good thing and the future but they don't necessarily considerably outperform faster CUs for current software. More CUs would be idling and fighting for resources if the software doesn't use it well. In the future that could change.

This may even be the reason why there were rumors of PS5 being more powerful by insiders. It may be that the software was performing better and they wild guessed the theoretical. I even remember one insider saying 'for now'.

 

[PropellerEar]

@CJY one of the worst PlayStation Fanboy on NeoGaf who is already on my Ignore List did the Translation?

Yeah, I'm out!

Unless you have proof he injected his own views into the translation to totally bastardize it, shut up.

Apparently he used a lot of effort for this, will take this any day over you shit posting.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Even at this max estimate here, I doubt the human eye will see much multiplatform differences. We don't even know how it'll be implemented or anything. These power gaps estimates just incredibly underwhelming unless its magnitudes more.

Well that all depends on how standardized it becomes, we see a markedly clear distinction in the multiplatform PC titles that support it so this assertion doesn't really align with any form of supported hypothesis.

 

[John254]

I don’t believe so.
He was asked about Xbox the. He replied how it could affect game development.

Well. No

It is if i asked you: "Could the Raytracing feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of generation?" And your answer should be "No, because Playstation 5 GPU have hardware raytracing too." You shouldn't answer as if PS5 didn't have RT, so it will be big win for Microsoft.

Because now it looks like as if interviewer and this Crytek guy doesn't even know PS5 specs...

 

[SonGoku]

There's a difference, I'm saying what we do know, you're saying what you presume to know. There's a big divide there.

Any logic that resides inside the CU will scale with clocks, to imply that RT logic inside is exempt from this is naive at best.
By the same rationale the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim that XSX has a 44% advantage in RT.
Unless of course i misunderstood you?

 

[Three]

Well that all depends on how standardized it becomes, we see a markedly clear distinction in the multiplatform PC titles that support it so this assertion doesn't really align with any form of supported hypothesis.

Even if it is standardised you have 44% more CUs but slower so the difference would be less than 44%.

 

[Kumomeme]

lets not jump on conclusion here

from what we can understand from the interview, tf is just a number on paper if the hardware cant utilize all the necessary part (hardware and software) in 'harmony' and reach the 'peak'....12tf over 10.28 tf is just a figure of number if the 12tf cant always reach it full potentiall but the less 10.28tf can

basically what he said ps5 should been easier to utilize for devs and reach the peak of its tf power due to how good the necessary part work in 'harmony' which is also contributed by stuff like how 'small' and 'faster' certain part number like cu is ..he said stuff such as larger cu number might be useless if it not feed enough resource (which is i we actually dont know if xsx's component like cu is 'well feed' or not )

..basically what he mean ps5 had advantages because it easier for developers utilize to the peak performance while xsx which is would be more challenging due to larger number of related specs presented
( which is probably too early to say )...also he said devs will find it harder to utilize stuff like larger cpu or cu number that resulted the hardware end up not running at full potential due to the devs dont bother to utilize it (which what he mean not about the hardware's capabilities but it all falls to devs effort which is we probably dont know for sure)

thats what i understand...there no guarantee that devs wont utilize the xsx to full potential and ms engineers sure know better when designed the console

another interesting stuff he said that devs usually tend to utilized smaller number of stuff like cpu count in beginning but it could also apply to xsx's larger number of specs in future where later devs will utilize it? whatever handicap it had like how the cu probably wont have necessary resource surely already or will adressed by engineers who designed the console....also stuff like xsx use windows vs specialized os for ps5 is probably to early to judge as ms is software company they also had 'wizards' with them...but might be true if we use this gen as comparison

he said sony usually output better game at end of generation but there no clear basis of this claim for next gen..for ps3 generation is might be due to devs getting better at use the cell processor but maybe he referring to the ssd speed? at end of generation we might have bigger world/more details game due to the massive storage speed it has...i doubt beginning of gen devs already tap at everything the ssd would potentially do

 

[-Arcadia-]

Man . Every time i see a thread about ps5 i regret clicking on it.
Xbox fans are cancer. They have to destroy everything.
All the time.
Will this be the tone for the next 7 years?
News flash. Its all about the games. And xbox didnt have games for almost a decade now.
Sony brings games.
Nintendo brings games.
Xbox gets you teraflops.

You can buy a ferrari or 10. What good is it to you when you can only drive it 3 months a year in the city or 120km on the highway?
Power means shit without content.
Netflix means shit with korean drama content.


What i can tell with confidence, If the ps5 is soo easy to develop for you be assured to have the most games and the most diversity that will bring us back to psone and ps2 times.
No more waiting 6 years for sequels.

They have 99% the same games. Likewise, you absolutely will be waiting crazy amounts of time for sequels, if not even longer. Nothing will change in that regard.

The bad fans are on both sides, and Nintendo and PC too.