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[ethomaz]

Well. No

It is if i asked you: "Could the Raytracing feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of generation?" And your answer should be "No, because Playstation 5 GPU have hardware raytracing too." You shouldn't answer as if PS5 didn't have RT, so it will be big win for Microsoft.

Because now it looks like as if interviewer and this Crytek guy doesn't even know PS5 specs...

Why may a guy asked about Xbox reply about PS5?

C’mon.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Any logic that resides inside the CU will scale with clocks, to imply that RT logic inside is excemt from this is naive at best.
By the same rationale the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim that XSX has a 44% advantage in RT.
Unless of course i misunderstood you?

Yeah well you don't know that because the intersections while coupled to the CU's doesn't mean it has shared operating logic. You're assuming it does. In terms of physical RT hardware the intersection engines are directly tied to the shader and CU count, there's 44% more shaders, there's 44% more CU's, there's 44% more RT intersections.

Even if it is standardised you have 44% more CUs but slower so the difference would be less than 44%.

Like I told him you're going to have to substantiate shared logic.

 

[The Shift]

He probably is laughing at your lack of translations skills lol

Oh shit really?!?!?? Oh noes!!!

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sounds like he has no hands on experience. He is just commenting on what others have reported.

Looks like Cerny designed another console that is easy/logical to code for... he said he did for PS4 and developers react the following way (see DOOM64’s Engine dev comments):

 

[Dlacy13g]

Well...that was an interesting read. Looking at his background on LinkedIn, I am not overwhelmed by his body of work in gaming. So how much his opinion is shared in the industry or just a view of someone with less experience remains to be seen. Soon enough we will see the proof in the pudding for both consoles.

 

[SonGoku]

Yeah well you don't know that because the intersections while coupled to the CU's doesn't mean it has shared operating logic. You're assuming it does. In terms of physical RT hardware the intersection engines are directly tied to the shader and CU count, there's 44% more shaders, there's 44% more CU's, there's 44% more RT intersections.

You are omitting the fact PS5 shaders are 22% faster and perform RT intersections 22% faster. Why wouldn't they?

 

[Ashoca]

I know that Xbox series X is probably more powerfull than the PS5 on paper, BUT lets not forget how from the 4000 developers surveyd for the 2020 GDC a staggering 38% said that was more interested as a developer in Ps5 compared with a 25% of the xbox.

only 13% difference? And only 38% in total? So the devs are 62% more interested in other platforms?
Thats actually pretty low?! Could this mean that it will take lots of time because devs abandone the old (to them more interesting) platforms?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You are omitting the fact PS5 shaders are 22% faster and perform RT intersections 22% faster. Why wouldn't they?

Have you not read a single thing I said to you over the last several posts?

 

[ethomaz]

Seems like the website will have an Instagram live with the dev at some point to clarify some of the questions people asked in the comments. There might be more interesting info if anyone can speak Farsi. I just used google translate to check out the article and saw that mentioned in the comments.

 

[Romulus]

Well that all depends on how standardized it becomes, we see a markedly clear distinction in the multiplatform PC titles that support it so this assertion doesn't really align with any form of supported hypothesis.

But how do you compare RT from PC to console when it doesnt exist on console yet? You're trying to compare these highly customized console RT approaches by using PC raytracing. Theres no like for like, not even close

 

[The Shift]

Well...that was an interesting read. Looking at his background on LinkedIn, I am not overwhelmed by his body of work in gaming. So how much his opinion is shared in the industry or just a view of someone with less experience remains to be seen. Soon enough we will see the proof in the pudding for both consoles.

Ali Salehi Games Portfolio

These are the game projects that I have been involved in:

• Raze Roshan (Third person, story-driven action game for PC built with Unity)
• Dark Madness (Third person, story-driven horror game for PC built with Unity)
• Ashoub (Online multiplayer and story-based Collectible Card Game for mobile platforms)
• Q-Bang (Twin stick shooter game targeted for both mobile and console platforms)
• ParsCup (browser-based online soccer team management game)

Yeah, for someone that has no first hand development experience with any generation of Playstation or Xbox console he certainly has presented some very definitive statements on how those platforms perform. I mean he has used Unity and possibly develops plugins for the solutions he has worked on - I guess that's something.

 

[geordiemp]

I am in the camp of buying Ps5 and fought against the crap spewed by the windows central timdog gang as being rubbish.

I have to admit that this article does not fare allot beter and also looks like PS fanboy stuff and favoured too heavily in Ps5 favour. There is no technical details that have not already been discussed, no insights in the article.

Logically XSX will have an SLIGHT advantage. IMO.........SLIGHT, in GPU albeit a small one, and Ps5 melting or drop to 9 TF is equal brainless FUD.

 

[mckmas8808]

This shall be interesting.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

This shall be interesting.

Oh it's going to be a shit show, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It's not about win or lose, it's about accuracy of information.

As if it were not all about winning in these threads, but yeah let’s go with that now .

 

[DynamiteCop!]

As if it were not all about winning in these threads, but yeah let’s go with that now .

Well winning is still possible while retaining accuracy, seems to be a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Sanpei]

Man . Every time i see a thread about ps5 i regret clicking on it.
Xbox fans are cancer. They have to destroy everything.
All the time.
Will this be the tone for the next 7 years?
News flash. Its all about the games. And xbox didnt have games for almost a decade now.
Sony brings games.
Nintendo brings games.
Xbox gets you teraflops.

You can buy a ferrari or 10. What good is it to you when you can only drive it 3 months a year in the city or 120km on the highway?
Power means shit without content.
Netflix means shit with korean drama content.


What i can tell with confidence, If the ps5 is soo easy to develop for you be assured to have the most games and the most diversity that will bring us back to psone and ps2 times.
No more waiting 6 years for sequels.

 

[farmerboy]

Yes, relative to the Pro about 97% of game analysis' would beg to differ.

Yeah, yeah, but what percentage of gamers actually got to see it?

 

[Stilton Disco]

It's still way too early to tell whether it will pay off, but like I've said before, Microsoft have built a super powerful small form factor PC in the XSX, and Sony have built a lightning fast Console in PS5.

XSX is thus already a known entity, and a hell of a beast in the power stakes, but it's clear PS5 is trying to do somerhing different.

Do I think different is a good idea? Probably not. But it's a welcome change after the predictability and rather tameness of the current generation (Switch aside), and I fully expect first party titles, and those third party games designed with the PS5's idiosyncrasies in mind, to do amazing things.

Anything developed for the PC first and foremost though? XSX is probably going to wipe the floor with their competition every time.

This generation is going to be awesome basically, and we're even a few years off whatever batshit thing Nintendo will inevitably bring to the table for 9th gen!

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Great stuff from a unity developer

 

[megreotsugua]

Oh wow. PS5 pushing the same capability as the competition that has bigger die size while being cheaper to make. Cerny is a genius.

I have feeling that the coherency engines GPU cache scrubbers have a lot to do with PS5 being more efficient.

 

[SonGoku]

Have you not read a single thing I said to you over the last several posts?

Have you? You said shaders are responsible for RT intersections
So why do you think faster shaders wont perform the same task faster compared to slower shaders? what you are suggesting doesn't align with how GPUs work, if anything the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate this anomaly you suggest.

If you take into account PS5's 22% faster shaders the RT gap shrinks to 17-21% (just like the compute gap)

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Yeah, yeah, but what percentage of gamers actually got to see it?

Doesn't matter, that doesn't stand in opposition to the result. How many people own an RTX 2080 series GPU of any kind? Barely over 2%, doesn't change their rendering and performative capability.

 

[Chankoras]

reading the interview I'm failing to understand what's so controversial, the ps5 seems to be a more harmonious system between components with a better designed memory pool, whereas the Xbox is a more powerful console which will be able to push higher resolutions, but all in all, both gaming machines will be somewhat similar in their capabilities.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well winning is still possible while retaining accuracy, seems to be a hard concept to grasp.

Hehe, oh I know what the key is there .

 

[longdi]

Ali Salehi Games Portfolio

These are the game projects that I have been involved in:

• Raze Roshan (Third person, story-driven action game for PC built with Unity)
• Dark Madness (Third person, story-driven horror game for PC built with Unity)
• Ashoub (Online multiplayer and story-based Collectible Card Game for mobile platforms)
• Q-Bang (Twin stick shooter game targeted for both mobile and console platforms)
• ParsCup (browser-based online soccer team management game)

Yeah, for someone that has no first hand development experience with any generation of Playstation or Xbox console he certainly has presented some very definitive statements on how those platforms perform. I mean he has used Unity and possibly develops plugins for the solutions he has worked on - I guess that's something.

Boom!

Close this thread. Lolz

 

[John254]

Welp...

 

[ethomaz]

Great stuff from a unity developer

He actually work with CryEngine.
Last year the CryTek junior team which he is part made a game in a week for the Global Game Jam.

As he removed the title Junior he probably received a promotion from last year to now days.

Well the CryEngine game and last year interview:

CRYENGINE | Haven, one of Crytek’s Global Game Jam 2019 entries

Crytek entered four teams into this year’s Global Game Jam. Check out game four, Haven, and find out about the game jam experience in our interview with the team who made it.

www.cryengine.com

 

[longdi]

Welp...

^double boom.

Lets hope more credible leaks are presented before discussing a worth

 

[Ar¢tos]

Have you not read a single thing I said to you over the last several posts?

Have you? You said shaders are responsible for RT intersections
So why do you think faster shaders wont perform the same task faster compared to slower shaders? what you are suggesting doesn't coincide with how GPUs work, if anything the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate this anomaly you suggest.

If you take into account PS5's 22% faster shaders the RT gap shrinks to 17-21% (just like the compute gap)

You two are arguing as if RT is actually important...
Bad games will always be bad, regardless of how many shiny surfaces they have.
I expect the best games of next gen to not use RT, or will make little use of RT.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Have you? You said shaders are responsible for RT intersections
So why do you think faster shaders wont perform the same task faster compared to slower shaders? what you are suggesting doesn't coincide with how GPUs work, if anything the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate this anomaly you suggest.

If you take into account PS5's 22% faster shaders the RT gap shrinks to 17-21% (just like the compute gap)

Because while RT cores intersect CU's there's nothing that intrinsically ties them to the operating logic of them, that's your assumption. They're independent hardware, they're independent cores, they very well may have their own independant logic.

Didn't you notice Cerny talking about hundreds of millions of rays a second and that what he's seen is games using reflections on PS5 is exactly that? He's talking about hundreds of millions of rays, Microsoft is talking hundreds of billions.

 

[megreotsugua]

Welp...

Oh I see. That's why he didn't talk in details and basically only confirmed what was already said by Cerny and other developers.

 

[Hobbygaming]

What is XsX’s bottleneck? It’s too many, too capable CUs? It’s ultra fast SSD?

From what this engineer is saying, they have to use the fast ram for most applications instead of the slower bandwidth (split) and that slows down the other parts of rendering

He also said

Not talking about bandwidth champ, talking GPU, try and keep.up.
I Will make it easier for you. This is Alis logic.

"The main difference is that the working frequency of the Xbox One S, is much higher and they work at a higher frequency. That's why, despite the differences in some, they don't make much of a difference. An interesting example from an IGN reporter was that the PlayStation 4 is very neat and tidy like an 8-cylinder engine, and the Xbox One S is turbocharged like a six-cylinder engine to the end. Raising the clock speed on the Xbox One S seems to me to have a number of good things to do, such as the memory, rasterizer, and other parts of the graphics card whose performance is related to this clock. So the rest of the Xbox One S's GPU works faster than the PlayStation 4. That's what makes the console work even more than the announced peak 1.40 Teraflops. But for the PlayStation 4, because the rest of the sections are slower, it will probably work much lower on Teraflops in general, and only reach 1.84 Teraflops in highly ideal conditions."

Enjoy your logic.

You think this is an apples to apples comparison with the PS5?

Let's try this again
PS5: Higher clocks but lesser cores = easier for developers and more peak performance
PS5: One ram pool - Easier for developers

Which of these did the Xbox One have? None

 

[sublimit]

I don't care which console will be the most powerful (current gen games still look amazing to me) but the most important thing i'm getting from this interview is how easy the PS5 is to develop games for. This makes me happy above all else.

 

[FireFly]

More CUs are a good thing and the future but they don't necessarily considerably outperform faster CUs for current software. More CUs would be idling and fighting for resources if the software doesn't use it well. In the future that could change.

This may even be the reason why there were rumors of PS5 being more powerful by insiders. It may be that the software was performing better and they wild guessed the theoretical. I even remember one insider saying 'for now'.

You're comparing GPU and CPU workloads, which are completely different. Rendering is inherently parallelisable, because it involves working on millions of pixels at a time. Just take a look at the PC space. The 5700 XT has very similar clock speeds to the 5500 XT, but 66% more CUs. And the 5700 XT is more than 66% faster.

 

[Sanpei]

Ali Salehi Games Portfolio

These are the game projects that I have been involved in:

• Raze Roshan (Third person, story-driven action game for PC built with Unity)
• Dark Madness (Third person, story-driven horror game for PC built with Unity)
• Ashoub (Online multiplayer and story-based Collectible Card Game for mobile platforms)
• Q-Bang (Twin stick shooter game targeted for both mobile and console platforms)
• ParsCup (browser-based online soccer team management game)

Yeah, for someone that has no first hand development experience with any generation of Playstation or Xbox console he certainly has presented some very definitive statements on how those platforms perform. I mean he has used Unity and possibly develops plugins for the solutions he has worked on - I guess that's something.

 

[ethomaz]

Oh I see. That's he didn't talk in details and basically only confirmed what was already said by Cerny and other developers.

Exactly.
He were very clear to avoid professional issues with Sony or MS.

 

[MilkyJoe]

TLDR?

Of course it's not.

 

[SonGoku]

Because while RT cores intersect CU's there's nothing that intrinsically ties them to the operating logic of them, that's your assumption. They're independent hardware, they're independent cores, they very well may have their own independant logic.

Ok for arguments sake lets pretend RT cores are separate blocks/independent
What makes you think a clock frequency won't affect RT cores? We know clocks influence every part of the GPU pipeline backend and frontend. Why do you assume RT cores are exempt from this?

As Cerny's friend said: A rising tide lifts all boats

 

[Virex]

I knew these devs are being paid to talk about PS5 and Xbox Series X instead of Stadia. They are being paid to not talk about the Stadia and how powerful it is. Absolute bullshit.

 

[ZywyPL]

Let's try this again
PS5: Higher clocks but lesser cores = easier for developers and more peak performance
PS5: One ram pool - Easier for developers

Which of these did the Xbox One have? None

Actually, the XB1 had lesser CUs and higher clocks compared to PS4. And we all know how it turned out, don't we? And that's where all the concerns regarding PS5 solution come from, because we all actually saw and experienced it already, and it was a bad experience.

 

[KlickKlack]

interview summary:
WHEN MS CAN'T FEED THE 12TF GPU AND SONY CAN OPTIMAL FEED THE 10TF GPU THEN IT WILL BE POSSIBLE THAT THE CONSOLES ARE EQUAL IN GRAPHICS

A BIG:
! WHEN!

And here the best part he clearly stated the truth about Sonys SSD = can't make graphics better!

- remove the loading page from the game

-change in the game menu



orginal quote about SSD :
"
PlayStation 5 SSD speeds reach 8-9 GB/s in peak mode. Now that we've reached this speed, what else will happen apart from loading games and more details?

The first thing to do is remove the loading page from the games. Microsoft also showed the ability to stop and run new games, which can run multiple games simultaneously and move between each in less than 5-6 seconds. This time will be under a second in PlayStation. Another thing that can be expected is a change in the game menu. When there is no loading, of course, there is no expectation and you no longer need to watch a video to load the game in the background."


Great interview for all XSX fans.

 

[darkinstinct]

TLDR?

" I'm quoting others who have made a public statement"

He knows nothing.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Looks like a nervous laugh

 

[TBiddy]

So we have a random developer who;

1. Doesn't know that the PS5 has hyperthreading
2. Claims the PS5 loads games at least 6 timers faster than the XSX
3. Hasn't developed any games worthy of a mention
4. Has no access to the actual hardware

I rest my case.

 

[Hobbygaming]

interview summary:
WHEN MS CAN'T FEED THE 12TF GPU AND SONY CAN OPTIMAL FEED THE 10TF GPU THEN IT WILL BE POSSIBLE THAT THE CONSOLES ARE EQUAL IN GRAPHICS

A BIG:
! WHEN!

And here the best part he clearly stated the truth about Sonys SSD = can't make graphics better!

quote:
"
PlayStation 5 SSD speeds reach 8-9 GB/s in peak mode. Now that we've reached this speed, what else will happen apart from loading games and more details?

The first thing to do is remove the loading page from the games. Microsoft also showed the ability to stop and run new games, which can run multiple games simultaneously and move between each in less than 5-6 seconds. This time will be under a second in PlayStation. Another thing that can be expected is a change in the game menu. When there is no loading, of course, there is no expectation and you no longer need to watch a video to load the game in the background."


Great interview for all XSX fans.

NDA

 

[DynamiteCop!]

So we have a random developer who;

1. Doesn't know that the PS5 has hyperthreading
2. Claims the PS5 loads games at least 6 timers faster than the XSX
3. Hasn't developed any games worthy of a mention
4. Has no access to the actual hardware

I rest my case.

Please stop making sense, it doesn't gel with the ethos of this thread!

 

[Panajev2001a]

So we have a random developer who;

1. Doesn't know that the PS5 has hyperthreading

1. He is saying that you do not have the option to disable HT to avoid clockspeed throttling.

2. Nice twisting of the argument he is making, but then again SSD speed stops mattering after 2.4 GB/s uncompressed (diminishing returns).

3. Nice Ad Hominem (love how these attacks work well when it suits, but for other people there are always excuses... it was just Don Mattrick’s fault )

4. Says you...

 

[M1chl]

I know something was fishy, when his insight is on par with people in here : ) But if it helps people to sleep better, meh why not : )

 

[megreotsugua]

I wonder if Crytek only hires talented developers. He's with Crytek now right?