Scientist Supreme!
Banned
It so was. Any other movie would have made the stepdad evil or a dick but this made them have a perfectly normal relationship.
Ant-Man |Spoiler Thread| I Think Our First Move Should Be Calling The Avengers
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yeah, i really liked that they made the step dad a good dude in the end.
damn i need to rewatch this asap
mind blown
damn i need to rewatch this asap
mind blown
in the whole world only you and this guy: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/07/20/the-most-important-easter-egg-in-ant-man
At least I wasn't alone. Yay.
I think this is referring to Cross' obsession over the tech.
Got it too.
Just saw it again, holds up, however I do think this was because it was a Tuesday showing and it was the bigger theatre but the audience felt mum til the third act. I dunno if I'll see it in 3D though but yeah, I do like the similarities of the pathos to Lang/Pym. Also realizing the nice touch while Luis is a known criminal, he has a taste of the cultured lifestyle like wine tastings, art exhibits and making waffles. Hope is still a good character but the kiss at the end feels just as forced as Quill's and Gamora's kiss in Guardians.
Again, the Wasp reveal is still hype worthy but only because we need some actual superpowered heroines in the MCU. I know Wanda is in but I need to see her more and there's Jessica Jones. Also, realized the advanced Wasp suit doesn't have sleeves, kinda odd.
I do like that family is cool with Lang as Antman, especially the boyfriend of Greer. Feels quite refreshing in a weird way. Dunno why, especially after Foggy knowing Matt's thing in Daredevil.
Punching wasn't working. He wins by sacrificing himself. Otherwise, the punching doesn't work!
Lang wants stability which Pym offers but really, money isn't a driving factor at all in this movie. Cross doesn't want money for the sake of having money, he wants power and he wants to rub it in Pym's face. That's why he invites him to the unveilings and brags about how much profit he's going to make through the company - not because the money matters but because he wants to stick it to Pym. Pym himself doesn't care about money because he already has it.
Both Pym and Lang want to reconcile with their daughters, there are just different things getting in the way. With Pym it's obviously his guilt over Jan, with Lang, it's his past. When I say that Lang and Cross are different sides of Pym, I don't mean their personalities are the same. They're metaphorical representations of Pym the ambitious scientist and Pym the alienated father.
I don't think Lang wants to take power, he just wants to protect people. The same applies to Pym. Cross is the only one who wants power but again, not just for the sake of power but moreso to achieve superiority over the man who rejected him. That's why he tells Lang his very existence is insulting because Pym chose Lang over him.
Cross is Pym before he realized what the Pym particle could cost him. Bold, ambitious, and a self proclaimed adventurer. Of course, any of the good aspects of those traits are twisted because Cross is also a sociopath. Pym sees the scientist he once was in Cross, even if it is a distorted image. I think the whole particles messing with his head was a bit of mistake since it takes away some of Cross' sense of agency and autonomy. Lang icing him though, I'm totally OK with. The man was about to waste his daughter. Mentally ill or not, that gets you put down.
I just checked and Paul Rudd is ten years older than Evangeline Lilly woah. Paul Rudd so boyish, that dude just isn't connected to time.
He sacrifices himself in order to get into the control chip so he can punch it. I admit I'm being kind of purposefully obstinate about this one. Certainly the reason Lang won the fight wasn't that he was better at punching but that he was willing to sacrifice himself. I just wish there was a way to portray that sacrifice succeeding other than it enabling a punch on the way down. Draw Cross into sub-atomia with you or something, maybe?
Yeah I feel you on all this. Particularly the bolded I think is the right way to frame Lang vs Cross.
One thing that's messy though is Pym's relationship with Hope (I don't know if they say this out loud in the movie, but in the credits her character is named as Hope van Dyne, which I thought was a nice touch.). External factors -- The Law, prison, step-dad guy -- prevent Lang from developing his relationship with his daughter. The only thing that prevents Pym from developing his relationship with his daughter is himself. There's no reason at all for him to hold back the big revelation -- that Janet sacrificed herself to stop nuclear war -- from Hope. Like how does keeping her in the dark about that serve to protect her from anything at all?
It's just frustrating to set up Pym and Lang as parallels because Pym is such a shitty dude to aspire to. He abandoned his daughter, talks about his dead wife in weirdly possessive ways (it really takes him aback when Hope tells him that Janet's sacrifice was her own choice? really?), he keeps hauling off and decking people, he's a weirdo stalker guy who quotes Lang's ex-wife speaking in a private intimate moment, even recruiting Scott instead of letting Hope wear the suit is p shitty ("he'd rather lose the mission than lose you" is whack given the stakes). The only thing that really recommends Pym is that he stands against accrual of power, and he eventually comes around on opening up to Hope.
Yeah I don't mean Lang wants to seize power, I mean he wants to destroy it where it concentrates. I wish they'd gone into his criminal career a little more. The rob-the-bank-and-redistribute-wealth thing was kind of interesting. It's a little weird that he goes from this Robin Hood people's hero guy down to only caring about his own daughter without really wrestling with that. They just sort of make that transition with "I thought about it in prison". I dunno, I'd like to see some of his passion for smashing rich people throughout.
Yeah Cross being addled was a major misstep. I'm not saying Scott's action wasn't warranted in that situation, I just wish the situation had been different so they could've resolved the conflict without punching dude's card. Or at least show some remorse about it afterward.
He sacrifices himself in order to get into the control chip so he can punch it. I admit I'm being kind of purposefully obstinate about this one. Certainly the reason Lang won the fight wasn't that he was better at punching but that he was willing to sacrifice himself. I just wish there was a way to portray that sacrifice succeeding other than it enabling a punch on the way down. Draw Cross into sub-atomia with you or something, maybe?
Yeah I feel you on all this. Particularly the bolded I think is the right way to frame Lang vs Cross.
One thing that's messy though is Pym's relationship with Hope (I don't know if they say this out loud in the movie, but in the credits her character is named as Hope van Dyne, which I thought was a nice touch.). External factors -- The Law, prison, step-dad guy -- prevent Lang from developing his relationship with his daughter. The only thing that prevents Pym from developing his relationship with his daughter is himself. There's no reason at all for him to hold back the big revelation -- that Janet sacrificed herself to stop nuclear war -- from Hope. Like how does keeping her in the dark about that serve to protect her from anything at all?
It's just frustrating to set up Pym and Lang as parallels because Pym is such a shitty dude to aspire to. He abandoned his daughter, talks about his dead wife in weirdly possessive ways (it really takes him aback when Hope tells him that Janet's sacrifice was her own choice? really?), he keeps hauling off and decking people, he's a weirdo stalker guy who quotes Lang's ex-wife speaking in a private intimate moment, even recruiting Scott instead of letting Hope wear the suit is p shitty ("he'd rather lose the mission than lose you" is whack given the stakes). The only thing that really recommends Pym is that he stands against accrual of power, and he eventually comes around on opening up to Hope.
Yeah I don't mean Lang wants to seize power, I mean he wants to destroy it where it concentrates. I wish they'd gone into his criminal career a little more. The rob-the-bank-and-redistribute-wealth thing was kind of interesting. It's a little weird that he goes from this Robin Hood people's hero guy down to only caring about his own daughter without really wrestling with that. They just sort of make that transition with "I thought about it in prison". I dunno, I'd like to see some of his passion for smashing rich people throughout.
Yeah Cross being addled was a major misstep. I'm not saying Scott's action wasn't warranted in that situation, I just wish the situation had been different so they could've resolved the conflict without punching dude's card. Or at least show some remorse about it afterward.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
finally saw it
one of MCU's weakest movies. It wasnt bad but waaaaaaay too predictabo!. Seeing all the troops n cliches coming.
The action was top notch, the dialogue was good. But the characters for the most part felt under developed, I just didnt "believe" the relationships and motivations.
one of MCU's weakest movies. It wasnt bad but waaaaaaay too predictabo!. Seeing all the troops n cliches coming.
The action was top notch, the dialogue was good. But the characters for the most part felt under developed, I just didnt "believe" the relationships and motivations.
It was pretty weak. It was like a sequel to the movie's last scene. Turns out Falcon is looking for Ant-man because he wants Ant-man to fix Bucky's arm or something? The whole Ant-man / Falcon "relationship" was super poorly-sketched though so who knows.
Wag
Member
I missed it too. 😞 I guess I'll have to catch it on the blu-ray.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I'm guessing they need him to steal something. They admitted that it was one of the scenes that they've finished for Civil War ripped straight out of the movie so who knows. Might have just been the only finished scene.
serenewarfare
Banned
Just saw the movie. Great stuff. As soon as I saw the second end-credits scene, I knew it had to be ripped straight from Civil War. It was shot completely different from the rest of the movie, and it referenced storyline developments we haven't seen yet.
Mix Master
Member
Saw the movie last night, I feel like I need to go back and rewatch, it wasn't anything oscar worthy but i felt like a small little boy in a comic store and it didnt feel like a throwaway Comic-Book Movie like these studios love to churn out. No doubt one of the Best MCU films out there and wayyy better than Age of Ultron. And what I love is how Darren Cross felt like obidiah Stane 2.0, i do feel that he was better as Marvel has been struggling with Villains and although not new, Corey Stoll Felt so Natural and menacing as a villain.
I Do hope that he is Stuck in the Microverse and not Dead though.
Notes on Ant-Man
-Peggy Looks good at 70
-the whole sequence of them falling out of the helicopter was well done with Siri "now playing Disentegration by The Cure"
- Thomas the Tank
-The Child Support thing was emmotional as many real felons go through that same process
- It was really a movie about fathers and their daughters, Scott and Cassie, and Hank and Hope
-Supporting Cast is Amazing
-Scott breaking back into hanks house and returning the suit and getting arrested was hilarious.
I Do hope that he is Stuck in the Microverse and not Dead though.
Notes on Ant-Man
-Peggy Looks good at 70
-the whole sequence of them falling out of the helicopter was well done with Siri "now playing Disentegration by The Cure"
- Thomas the Tank
-The Child Support thing was emmotional as many real felons go through that same process
- It was really a movie about fathers and their daughters, Scott and Cassie, and Hank and Hope
-Supporting Cast is Amazing
-Scott breaking back into hanks house and returning the suit and getting arrested was hilarious.
I'm sure it's been posted but this is amazing.
Yeah, there's no way that wasn't meticulously intentional. It was great lol
I also have to echo, that while Cross was pretty one dimensional, Stoll really put his all into making him have as much depth and emotion as possible. He was great.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
The world will become like Dragon Ball's.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Much like AoU, it improved for me on repeat viewing when I could anticipate story beats. I'm weird though in that when I tend to rewatch movies a lot.
I may go see this a third time this weekend...
Pop
Member
I'm sure it's been posted but this is amazing.
That's great haha
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I thought one of the funniest things in the movie wasn't even a direct joke but when Anthony first flew in how it was edited like a helicopter from some war movie.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Is there any place in particular that lists the differences between the Wright script and this one?
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
I'm sure it's been posted but this is amazing.
Track 21 on the soundtrack is even called "A Center for Ants!"
Yeah I was into that. Overall I thought the different species of ants thing was kind of hokey. But that touch and the fact they showed the ants getting evacuated after frying the servers was cute. Shooting Antony out the sky was pretty ridiculous.
but why even fry the servers if your bomb is going to COMPLETELY OBLITERATE the lab lol
I'm sure it's been posted but this is amazing.
Maybe Cross is actually Mugatu's long-lost son.
serenewarfare
Banned
I think that much like the original Iron Man, the relatively small scale of this movie will make it a much better rewatch film. Just so many fun moments.
Also he's an old man! I have to imagine that all masked crusaders are gonna are feeling some really bad aches and pains when they're seniors...
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
I hope they give both Scott and Hope different love interests in the future films. Don't turn the heroine into just the hero's girlfriend. Make her more of a separate entity.
I really like how the cop isn't just some asshole character too. He's just someone who wants to do his job and a person who really cares about Cassie.
So Feige said Hope won't be Wasp yet and she was in Civil War but now isn't. First Carol and now this, geez Kev. This teasing is getting old.
I doubt it, they want the Antman/Wasp partner dynamic from the books despite them not being Hank/Janet.
I doubt it, they want the Antman/Wasp partner dynamic from the books despite them not being Hank/Janet.
No way are they going to ignore the image of Ant-Man and Wasp - it's far too iconic for the characters. Only difference is they're going to try and rejigger Hope into Janet's role, which'll be weird.
basically just copy pasting cause I never know where to discuss in these threads but:
well it's pretty much what I expected
and that is:
I enjoyed it, it has good bits, but it fealt like real untapped potential, super formulaic, and it's impossible for me to judge it without immediatly thinking how much of a better film it'd be if they kept Edgar.
emphasis on formulaic btw. from the evil EEEEVIIIILL villain, to the character progession, the script, the pace, the "comedy relief 3 different races buddies"
some stuff felt so forced for the benefit of telling a really cliche story that it's just impossible not to realize the disjointed production and how that script could have used a lot more polish. some real badly covered deus ex machina stuff too
It looked that way for the trailer but yeah. "this is your chance", "time to make it right", *goes kiss daughter on forehead*. I dunno, that aspect didnt really work for me. felt really forced and the flow of it was just odd
most forced thing might be the "I didnt tell you to protect you" that...... doesnt make any sense... at all. He's doing the opposite, by telling her he is protecting her. seriously, this line and whole moment is there purely for the script to be the same safe ol thing and by the book progression; no other single reason. It makes absolutely no sense within this story. the fact that she immediatly goes "it wasnt your fault" and switches gear in a fucking second makes it so, so much worse even.
I sound harsh but that's mostly cause as it is this is just a fun totally forgettable romp and Wright would have elevated it so, so much more
well it's pretty much what I expected
and that is:
I enjoyed it, it has good bits, but it fealt like real untapped potential, super formulaic, and it's impossible for me to judge it without immediatly thinking how much of a better film it'd be if they kept Edgar.
emphasis on formulaic btw. from the evil EEEEVIIIILL villain, to the character progession, the script, the pace, the "comedy relief 3 different races buddies"
some stuff felt so forced for the benefit of telling a really cliche story that it's just impossible not to realize the disjointed production and how that script could have used a lot more polish. some real badly covered deus ex machina stuff too
It looked that way for the trailer but yeah. "this is your chance", "time to make it right", *goes kiss daughter on forehead*. I dunno, that aspect didnt really work for me. felt really forced and the flow of it was just odd
most forced thing might be the "I didnt tell you to protect you" that...... doesnt make any sense... at all. He's doing the opposite, by telling her he is protecting her. seriously, this line and whole moment is there purely for the script to be the same safe ol thing and by the book progression; no other single reason. It makes absolutely no sense within this story. the fact that she immediatly goes "it wasnt your fault" and switches gear in a fucking second makes it so, so much worse even.
I sound harsh but that's mostly cause as it is this is just a fun totally forgettable romp and Wright would have elevated it so, so much more
boiled goose
good with gravy
I enjoyed it a lot.
Funny, unique, and different from other Marvel movies. I liked that it wasn't the same type of origin story and the heist structure. Music was good.
I've heard that cross was not a great villain but he was better than others. He was definitely menacing and you understood part of his motivations.
Top 5 marvel for me.
Funny, unique, and different from other Marvel movies. I liked that it wasn't the same type of origin story and the heist structure. Music was good.
I've heard that cross was not a great villain but he was better than others. He was definitely menacing and you understood part of his motivations.
Top 5 marvel for me.
One of the reasons I wanted Janet in Avengers and was likely planned before Wright said "don't use her yet" was she was the happy go lucky hero but stood strong and even chose to led the team. Would have made a great opposite to Widow. Now Hope seems like she could be like Janet but then with her mother's sacrifice and her dad shutting himself from her, she then becomes another broken bird in the MCU like Widow and Witch, it's gonna be weird if Carol ends up the bright face in the MCU.
Guys, it's a Marvel movie. Always stick around until after the final credits.
For some reason, I thought they were gonna half ass the visuals for this movie. Glad I was wrong. I kept on being take aback about how gorgeous this movie was. Definitely gonna watch it once more but this time in 3d. I heard the 3d effects are too good to miss.
For some reason, I thought they were gonna half ass the visuals for this movie. Glad I was wrong. I kept on being take aback about how gorgeous this movie was. Definitely gonna watch it once more but this time in 3d. I heard the 3d effects are too good to miss.
Cant believe that people still went out early in Marvel movies.
Yeah, the effects were good. More of how they managed the scope and those perspective tricks than the CG itself
I also for the first time in a long time felt like it gained something from watching it in 3D during those scenes
I just wish they went 2.35 : 1 instead of 1.85 : 1
This actually had the least amount of people leave during the credits for me. I was like "Hey... people are catching on!"
Stevetopsy
Member
I agree it could have been written better, but for what it's worth this is what I saw. In the Yellowjacket showcase room, Cross shows disgust at the fact that Pym chose Scott and not him to share his Ant-Man secrets with. What seem like generic lines at first ("I'm gonna show you just how insignificant you are..") during the final fight now seem more like the continued theme of Cross and his ego, always trying to impress and now overtake his mentor. Lang "insults" Cross who obviously feels he's the better man and is willing to prove it to Hank by taking out the "idiot", as he calls him. Granted Cross is kind of nuts by that point but that's how it felt to me. Lang's "second chance" is more vague but I feel still intact since the deal was to help Pym stop the spread of Yellowjacket technology into the world. Scott is just dealing with Cross constantly upping the stakes due to his deteriorating mental state, up and until he threatens his daughter, the very thing he's fighting for in the first place.
The reasoning I took isn't something that is hinted at in the film but one that I imagined if I were in that situation. If I were Hank dealing with the "death" of my wife like that, I would almost want my daughter to think she is actually dead as opposed to thinking she is floating around in the endless void of nothingness, tormented for all of eternity. That's pretty terrifying for me to imagine living with that knowledge especially if there is nothing I can do about it. It was something that consumed Hank for a while, trying to rescue her, and I assumed he didn't want Hope to suffer needlessly like that.
Just saw this for a second time and a couple things I noticed. The Wasp vision in sub-atomic, if it's there, is definitely not for theater viewers. It goes by so fast you need some way of slowing it down or pausing it for sure. Also, the guy who is introduced as Hydra also has a Ten Rings tattoo on his neck. Is he both? I kind of wish they would have just used Ten Rings since Hydra is feeling a bit played out, especially if they are openly identifying as "Hello, i'm Mike from Hydra."
Discotheque
Banned
Holy shit this was boring. It started off so good, easily the most interesting/different beginning to a marvel movie since iron man 1. Funny stuff like the baskin robbins scene and his heist buddies (well mostly just pena, TIP and the russian were kinda wack) made this feel like the most grounded person in the marvel universe by far.
And then it just got kind of dull, once they move the focus from the heist ppl to everything else it just grinds to a halt for me. I liked Michael Douglas though, good casting there. But the Hope/Hank stuff was boring as hell.
The shrinking effects and action scenes involving them were cool though. Some meh stuff but also some very inventive sequences such as running on the gun and the bedroom scene.
The falcon scene was such a lame cameo, it just screamed "token marvel studios tie-in scene" mid-way through the fight i just got really bored and decided to go take that pee i was holding in. Whoever decided that, be it feige or mckay/rudd really fell flat writing that one in.
Still, despite the movie's mediocrity there's something buried in here that shows it could have been truly great.
Kudos to peyton reed for salvaging this project, he had what i imagine was half a great script in here and half a token kevin feige hack job. And he attempted to direct some storyboards from a different filmmaker with a wholly different style, so hats off to him. But I don't think he himself really brought anything great to the table. But he tackled this daunting task and made a watchable movie under quick time pressure which is tough.
Notice how I went so long without mentioning the elephant in the room here? Might as well get to it, yeah this was really lacking the punchiness of Edgar Wright/Joe Cornish. It starts off like something that could have been their film and then transitions into just a by-the-numbers 'anybody could have made this' movie. I think his style of humor, cut-aways etc. could have really made this movie feel much swifter.
And I'm so happy marvel didn't change the entire third act and kept their intended idea of making the final act a fight in a kid's bedroom. lol it sounds so stupid out of context but it really works in the film and is a refreshing change of pace from the last bunch of marvel films.
I left the movie more impressed with the CGI work on young Michael Douglas than anything else, holy crap that was amazing.
TLDR: pleasantly surprised that it turned out alright, but it's just alright. kevin feige is awful, this could have been the GOAT. there's small glimpses of it. Rudd got ripped, needed more michael pena.
And then it just got kind of dull, once they move the focus from the heist ppl to everything else it just grinds to a halt for me. I liked Michael Douglas though, good casting there. But the Hope/Hank stuff was boring as hell.
The shrinking effects and action scenes involving them were cool though. Some meh stuff but also some very inventive sequences such as running on the gun and the bedroom scene.
The falcon scene was such a lame cameo, it just screamed "token marvel studios tie-in scene" mid-way through the fight i just got really bored and decided to go take that pee i was holding in. Whoever decided that, be it feige or mckay/rudd really fell flat writing that one in.
Still, despite the movie's mediocrity there's something buried in here that shows it could have been truly great.
Kudos to peyton reed for salvaging this project, he had what i imagine was half a great script in here and half a token kevin feige hack job. And he attempted to direct some storyboards from a different filmmaker with a wholly different style, so hats off to him. But I don't think he himself really brought anything great to the table. But he tackled this daunting task and made a watchable movie under quick time pressure which is tough.
Notice how I went so long without mentioning the elephant in the room here? Might as well get to it, yeah this was really lacking the punchiness of Edgar Wright/Joe Cornish. It starts off like something that could have been their film and then transitions into just a by-the-numbers 'anybody could have made this' movie. I think his style of humor, cut-aways etc. could have really made this movie feel much swifter.
And I'm so happy marvel didn't change the entire third act and kept their intended idea of making the final act a fight in a kid's bedroom. lol it sounds so stupid out of context but it really works in the film and is a refreshing change of pace from the last bunch of marvel films.
I left the movie more impressed with the CGI work on young Michael Douglas than anything else, holy crap that was amazing.
TLDR: pleasantly surprised that it turned out alright, but it's just alright. kevin feige is awful, this could have been the GOAT. there's small glimpses of it. Rudd got ripped, needed more michael pena.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
What are you talking about? It's actually quite cliche. The step dad befriends the awful father after the father does something great.
It's also a subtle throwback to Red Skull and Captain America.
'What makes you so special?'
'Nothing, I'm just a kid from Brooklyn.'
I mean shit, even Lang's most 'evil' act (going back to crime) is done solely so he can provide for his daughter. The guy is arguably Marvel's most selfless hero after Captain America.
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