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[Gary Whitta]

great, so no takes for my questions. :lol

a follow-up: is Apple going to start coating that antenna silently in production runs in the future? if they're not giving the bumpers away forever, then that means they're going to address this, right?

Stealth hardware revision in September seems likely. Not that anything is stealth any more in the age of instant internet tear-downs.

 

[LCfiner]

http://www.apple.com/antenna/testing-lab.html

I can't stop laughing. this response is so over the top. (I'm watching the video about the labs)

 

[soul creator]

Some people changed operators for the iphone, I don't know how that works in the US, but here operators would never ever cancel your contract without having you pay a fine, and you will also lose the special offer for the iphone (much cheaper for people that change operators)

Stuck forever with a company is worst that being stuck with an iphone :lol

Not sure about other countries, but AT&T's policy here seems to be you can cancel a contract without penalty, also within the 30 days.

But yeah, if you did have to be stuck with a contract, that obviously would throw a wrench into things.

 

[StuBurns]

http://www.apple.com/antenna/testing-lab.html

I can't stop laughing. this response is so over the top. (I'm watching the video about the labs)

How is it over the top?

Everyone says "iPhone 4 is fucked, it drops bars"
And Apple say "iPhone 4 is as fucked as all it's competition including our own phones until this point, here is our evidence, and if you really care that much, here is a free case"

 

[Marty Chinn]

Stealth hardware revision in September seems likely. Not that anything is stealth any more in the age of instant internet tear-downs.

So I wonder what happens come past the date, and you make up some excuse to hit the Genius Bar... does that mean a free swap for a proper phone?

 

[Moussi]

Ok so what gives? When does this come out in canada?

 

[VeryGooster]

http://www.apple.com/antenna/testing-lab.html

lol

Concept art for Super Mario Galaxy 3!

 

[kaching]

http://www.apple.com/antenna/

^ This is really odd. First time I've ever seen something like this from Cupertino.

I wonder why they picked those three particular competing smartphones for the comparison. Are they particularly good sellers, comparatively?

 

[Barrett2]

I can't believe how many people are getting sucked-in by Astrolad. :lol

 

[BboyDubC]

I think this is a stupid solution, however, I love the phone, have no issue, and have a bumper, so the refund is pretty nice. It's great for me, but for the users with issues, I don't think this is an acceptable compromise at all.

They made the ultimate compromise. If you have a problem and still like the phone, take a bumper for FREE, if you can't handle the bumper, here's all your cash back and a nullified contract. A redesign is not possible, what do you want them to do, jump their one year cycle and throw out a new phone with everything the same? That takes months to years of work and engineering. You want a recall? Fantastic, EVERYONE SEND US YOUR IPHONE, BUT WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO GIVE YOU, WANT A 3GS??? Some of you guys are just brain stupid.

 

[Tobor]

Marty, no case provides 100% protection, just like no helmet guarantees you won't die and no condom guarantees you won't get preggers. You're still safer with one than without one, that's the point.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

So many people getting Astroladded.

:lol

 

[Flek]

holy fuck just watched the conference on apple.com. Did apple really do this? They REALLY started the conference with the iphone 4 antena song bashing gizmodo? :lol :lol I love it <3

 

[StoOgE]

i think apple really really made a great impresion with the way they handled this. Iam impressed

Really? By saying there wasn't a problem, then blaming it on software and then after consumer reports calls you out on it coming out and admitting their was a problem, then pointing the finger at your competition and giving away a free plastic case?

I love my iphone, but this was a less than accetable response.

 

[curls]

holy fuck just watched the conference on apple.com. Did apple really do this? They REALLY started the conference with the iphone 4 antena song bashing gizmodo? :lol :lol I love it <3

gizmodo :lol

 

[elohel]

I can't believe how many people are getting sucked-in by Astrolad. :lol

oh so it is on purpose? lol

 

[Marty Chinn]

Marty, no case provides 100% protection, just like no helmet guarantees you won't die and no condom guarantees you won't get preggers. You're still safer with one than without one, that's the point.

And my point was, I think the bumper is fine for protecting the side from casual scratching, and the front and back from laying it on top of a flat surface, but it's probably not going to net you much if you drop it normally as has been shown on video to which the impact it took was roughly the same as going naked. Liu Kang responds with, don't take too much stock in the video. So I retorted with if that's the case, would you have faith in it; I certainly wouldn't for that type of protection. Getting back to the original point, I wouldn't use the bumper as a protective case for dropping on to a hard surface. I'd look elsewhere and I do put some stock in that video example.

 

[X-Frame]

My ONLY question here is .. If there is a stealth hardware revision in Sept/Oct then I wonder if we can return our iPhones for the new models for that reason.

Anyone think that is a possibility?

 

[curls]

Really? By saying there wasn't a problem, then blaming it on software and then after consumer reports calls you out on it coming out and admitting their was a problem, then pointing the finger at your competition and giving away a free plastic case?

I love my iphone, but this was a less than accetable response.

Well they did state that there was a problem.

 

[LCfiner]

How is it over the top?

Everyone says "iPhone 4 is fucked, it drops bars"
And Apple say "iPhone 4 is as fucked as all it's competition including our own phones until this point, here is our evidence, and if you really care that much, here is a free case"

I guess I'm just struck by the video of the testing chambers where they're saying "see? we really do test these things. we swear. we got PhDs working here and everything"

seems kinda defensive.

and, if I may say so, if they have these testing chambers and these experts then they must have known that holding the phone normally attenuates the signal more than their previous design so their spin about specific weak spots is especially disingenuous.

I'm not upset that they're putting this information up there but it does seem funny to me how they are explaining/ spinning as much as they can in conjunction with the bumper giveaway.

 

[Marty Chinn]

My ONLY question here is .. If there is a stealth hardware revision in Sept/Oct then I wonder if we can return our iPhones for the new models for that reason.

Anyone think that is a possibility?

I would like to think so but given Apple's response today, I'm leaning against.

 

[Flek]

Really? By saying there wasn't a problem, then blaming it on software and then after consumer reports calls you out on it coming out and admitting their was a problem, then pointing the finger at your competition and giving away a free plastic case?

I love my iphone, but this was a less than accetable response.

no by admiting they made a mistake, explaining themself and giving away free cases (not just bumpers)

 

[BboyDubC]

Really? By saying there wasn't a problem, then blaming it on software and then after consumer reports calls you out on it coming out and admitting their was a problem, then pointing the finger at your competition and giving away a free plastic case?

I love my iphone, but this was a less than accetable response.

Bottom line is there ISN'T a problem. Think about it... if they didn't draw a black target indicating where to mess around with it, who would have really thought of the "death grip"? If they had marked any other phone with a target mark where to mess with the phone, they would have gotten screwed as well by media. They have proven most phones including previous iphones have this. They did the only thing to redeem their image by offering you money back or a case to provide peace of mind. Honestly, the antennae to me is a non-issue. Never have problems in *normal* use. The proximity sensor though, is where I'm crying bloody murder. They need a fix NOW!!!

 

[venne]

Well they did state that there was a problem with all smartphones.

FTFY

 

[StuBurns]

They made the ultimate compromise. If you have a problem and still like the phone, take a bumper for FREE, if you can't handle the bumper, here's all your cash back and a nullified contract. A redesign is not possible, what do you want them to do, jump their one year cycle and throw out a new phone with everything the same? That takes months to years of work and engineering. You want a recall? Fantastic, EVERYONE SEND US YOUR IPHONE, BUT WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO GIVE YOU, WANT A 3GS??? Some of you guys are just brain stupid.

What do I want? I want them to change the phone so this is not a problem for people, and I want them to do it asap and offer an exchange for everyone who cares, that is what I want. And if you claim that is impossible, I would completely disagree.

If someone has been a loyal iPhone user, had all of them so far, and are now fucked, and doesn't want to put up with a case, they do not deserve this treatment I'd argue.

I guess I'm just struck by the video of the testing chambers where they're saying "see? we really do test these things. we swear. we got PhDs working here and everything"

seems kinda defensive.

and, if I may say so, if they have these testing chambers and these experts then they must have known that holding the phone normally attenuates the signal more than their previous design so their spin about specific weak spots is especially disingenuous.

I'm not upset that they're putting this information up there but it does seem funny to me how they are explaining/ spinning as much as they can in conjunction with the bumper giveaway.

The bumper thing is odd, the reason I didn't believe we'd get them is it'd mean admitting there is an issue, but they kind of did neither, they gave them out, but they didn't admit any problem, they just said it's something all phones have basically, so the implication is kind of "there is nothing wrong, but because people want it, free bumpers!", which is genius in terms of PR I think.

Personally, I am perfectly fine with their response, but I think for the real 'victims', it sucks. After getting the update last night, this is what expected with the addition of bumpers, so it's better than I expected.

 

[Gary Whitta]

The irony is they can spend $100m on that Cerebro-like chamber and still wind up with massive amounts of antenna-egg on their face. If I was Jobs I'd want my money back!

 

[SuperPac]

Really? By saying there wasn't a problem, then blaming it on software and then after consumer reports calls you out on it coming out and admitting their was a problem, then pointing the finger at your competition and giving away a free plastic case?

I love my iphone, but this was a less than accetable response.

Apple didn't blame the problem on software, they just said they'd been determining the "bars" incorrectly. They never said that was a fix for the attenuation problem. At the same time they said that other phones exhibited the same behavior but because they may calculate bars differently and it wasn't as noticeable.

So for other phones that lose signal when gripped in the same way yet there's been no outcry or recall... are those manufacturers also guilty of a less-than-respectable response? Clearly, other phones have the same issue.

 

[Marty Chinn]

no by admiting they made a mistake, explaining themself and giving away free cases (not just bumpers)

Are they really admitting a mistake though? They were trying to pass it off as the norm. Making a mistake implies they did something that was wrong and not normal. They spent quite a bit of time trying to point out how they weren't wrong.

 

[drknite]

Honestly, the antennae to me is a non-issue. Never have problems in *normal* use. The proximity sensor though, is where I'm crying bloody murder. They need a fix NOW!!!

This man speaks truth.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Bottom line is there ISN'T a problem. Think about it... if they didn't draw a black target indicating where to mess around with it, who would have really thought of the "death grip"? If they had marked any other phone with a target mark where to mess with the phone, they would have gotten screwed as well by media. They have proven most phones including previous iphones have this. They did the only thing to redeem their image by offering you money back or a case to provide peace of mind. Honestly, the antennae to me is a non-issue. Never have problems in *normal* use. The proximity sensor though, is where I'm crying bloody murder. They need a fix NOW!!!

You really think if the line didn't exist, nobody would have noticed? That's pretty naive I think.

 

[BboyDubC]

What do I want? I want them to change the phone so this is not a problem for people, and I want them to do it asap and offer an exchange for everyone who cares, that is what I want. And if you claim that is impossible, I would completely disagree.

If someone has been a loyal iPhone user, had all of them so far, and are now fucked, and doesn't want to put up with a case, they do not deserve this treatment I'd argue.

Guess what, they have been working on a new phone and design... it is called iphone 5. Skip this generation if you don't like it and get the next one if you are having problems. I don't get it... who expects someone to redesign something that took years to design in one month just because they don't like it and someone showed them how to manipulate it so it doesn't work correctly. It's like people are 5 years olds and don't understand business, manufacturing, and engineering in the real world.

 

[Tobor]

And my point was, I think the bumper is fine for protecting the side from casual scratching, and the front and back from laying it on top of a flat surface, but it's probably not going to net you much if you drop it normally as has been shown on video to which the impact it took was roughly the same as going naked. Liu Kang responds with, don't take too much stock in the video. So I retorted with if that's the case, would you have faith in it; I certainly wouldn't for that type of protection. Getting back to the original point, I wouldn't use the bumper as a protective case for dropping on to a hard surface. I'd look elsewhere and I do put some stock in that video example.

You might be right, but one video is hardly conclusive.

 

[Flek]

Are they really admitting a mistake though? They were trying to pass it off as the norm. Making a mistake implies they did something that was wrong and not normal. They spent quite a bit of time trying to point out how they weren't wrong.

i think the did. Jobs said if he knew about this before he wouldnt have released the phone.

But then again, as i said many times before, if you are living in a area with "normal" networks the "antenna problem" will never bring you droped calls. Problem is most americans seem to have a fucked up network (hello at&t) to begin with. I know some peoble with iphone 4s in europe an none of them EVER had a droped call.

 

[ghst]

Bottom line is there ISN'T a problem. Think about it... if they didn't draw a black target indicating where to mess around with it, who would have really thought of the "death grip"? If they had marked any other phone with a target mark where to mess with the phone, they would have gotten screwed as well by media. They have proven most phones including previous iphones have this. They did the only thing to redeem their image by offering you money back or a case to provide peace of mind.

hook, line and sinker.

 

[StoOgE]

Apple didn't blame the problem on software, they just said they'd been determining the "bars" incorrectly. They never said that was a fix for the attenuation problem. At the same time they said that other phones exhibited the same behavior but because they may calculate bars differently and it wasn't as noticeable.

So for other phones that lose signal when gripped in the same way yet there's been no outcry or recall... are those manufacturers also guilty of a less-than-respectable response? Clearly, other phones have the same issue.

Originally they said that there wasn't a "death grip" problem but a software problem that made people *think* there was a death grip problem. And before that, there wasn't a problem at all.

It took them weeks to admit there was actually an antenna problem... and even then they just said "this is actually an industry wide problem" and not a design flaw.

I get that they have a tight rope to walk here, but their story changed several times in the last weeks.

 

[giga]

 

[Lord Error]

Everyone says "iPhone 4 is fucked, it drops bars"
And Apple say "iPhone 4 is as fucked as all it's competition including our own phones until this point, here is our evidence, and if you really care that much, here is a free case"

It's over the top because it's a lie. Their own other phone (3GS) attenuates the signal 20 times less than Iphone 4 by holding it the same way - most natural way at that.

Bottom line is there ISN'T a problem. Think about it... if they didn't draw a black target indicating where to mess around with it, who would have really thought of the "death grip"?

I really hope you are joking - yeah who would ever think of holding a phone like they were holding every other phone before it. Besides, the problem comes up just by touching that place lightly, not by squeezing into a monster grip like you have to do with other devices.

 

[StoOgE]

:lol

took me a second.

 

[BboyDubC]

hook, line and sinker.

Take the blinders off for a second and watch actual video evidence rivaling the initial "death grip" video for the i4. They have several videos of other phones showing this issue, but nobody cares, because those phones aren't selling out preorders and hitting 3 million sales in under a month.

 

[manofmandango]

:lol Flawless

 

[StoOgE]

It's over the top because it's a lie. Their own other phone (3GS) attenuates the signal 20 times less than Iphone 4 by holding it the same way - most natural way at that.

Basically. It is a problem for a lot of smart phones.. it seems to be a much bigger problem for the iphone 4 than the 3g or 3gs, and in my history of HTC phones before getting an iphone never a substantial problem there (though I have never used any of their non slider QWERTY phones, so I don't know if those have more of an issue).

I also wonder how many competitor phones they went through before they found the ones that they showed stats on today.

Your PR answer shouldn't be the moral equivelent of "but mom, all the other kids were doing it and they didn't get in trouble"

 

[Marty Chinn]

You might be right, but one video is hardly conclusive.

Sure, not conclusive, but certainly shouldn't be dismissed either. My wife can be a bit of a klutz and she's certainly dropped her phone on a number of occasions, so I take interest in this subject quite a bit. Her 3G amazingly only cracked a month ago after two years of usage. She's got a bumper now, but after that video I might consider moving her to another case.

i think the did. Jobs said if he knew about this before he wouldnt have released the phone.

But then again, as i said many times before, if you are living in a area with "normal" networks the "antenna problem" will never bring you droped calls. Problem is most americans seem to have a fucked up network (hello at&t) to begin with. I know some peoble with iphone 4s in europe an none of them EVER had a droped call.

I think what's funny about this is I'm currently 5 minutes from Steve Jobs and can easily invoke it casually without holding it by crushing it in my bare hands.

 

[gutterboy44]

This issue clearly has been blown out of proportion and for the record all of the users at my office who got the iphone 4 upgrade have had no problems (purely anecdotal).

However, to "bite" for this thread I agree with a previous poster about two very conflicting messages in the conf.

1. We worked our butts off for 22 days to figure this shit out. We love you, see how hard we worked to fix it
2. Look at our amazing facilities and staff for testing the antenna but some how dropped the ball on this antenna issue.

I am so confused, if the facilities were so awesome how was this not mentioned/discovered at all prior to launch? No matter what the difference between the performance they openly admitted that it is worse than the previous gen (3GS) so what was all that "best antenna ever" talk? He did say they have their cake and eat it so I guess that is what is going on because I see so many conflicting messages from Apple right now.

Edit: I guess this "Antennagate" did distract from that fact that iOS 4.0 has ruined 3GS and 3G phones. I have a 3GS and it is horrid with iOS4.0. So many bugs, freezes, restarts, etc. ugh. Just want one more year from it.

 

[BboyDubC]

I really hope you are joking - yeah who would ever think of holding a phone like they were holding every other phone before it. Besides, the problem comes up just by touching that place lightly, not by squeezing into a monster grip like you have to do with other devices.

Do you *have* an iphone 4??? It is *not* possible for me to ever reproduce that problem by touching it "lightly". Me and other friends have sat around testing it. It is only possibly by firmly gripping that whole area with the palm of the hand. And even then, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't go down at all even after holding it like that for a few minutes, just as Jobs was talking about with the guy who owned a blackberry. These are facts, not speculation based on what you read on the internet.

 

[kaching]

The irony is they can spend $100m on that Cerebro-like chamber and still wind up with massive amounts of antenna-egg on their face. If I was Jobs I'd want my money back!

For what? For opting to proceed with a design despite the data they very likely obtained from testing in that chamber? I don't think the failure to do its job lies with the chamber here...

 

[StuBurns]

It's over the top because it's a lie. Their own other phone (3GS) attenuates the signal 20 times less than Iphone 4 by holding it the same way - most natural way at that.

Well if it's a lie they'll go to court for liable slander for pretending other phones have the issue on their site, if they aren't lying, great, everyone wins.

 

[SimleuqiR]

:lol

This thread still has life in it.

 

[ghst]

Take the blinders off for a second and watch actual video evidence rivaling the initial "death grip" video for the i4. They have several videos of other phones showing this issue, but nobody cares, because those phones aren't selling out preorders and hitting 3 million sales in under a month.

who is this "they"?

 

[Owensboro]

The irony is they can spend $100m on that Cerebro-like chamber and still wind up with massive amounts of antenna-egg on their face. If I was Jobs I'd want my money back!

I'm sure he already tried. Instead of getting the money back they probably just installed some bumpers in the room.

 

[StoOgE]

I am so confused, if the facilities were so awesome how was this not mentioned/discovered at all prior to launch? No matter what the difference between the performance they openly admitted that it is worse than the previous gen (3GS) so what was all that "best antenna ever" talk? He did say they have their cake and eat it so I guess that is what is going on because I see so many conflicting messages from Apple right now.

I guess no one actually held the phone in the cerebro chamber?