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[Choc]

CLASSIFICATION OF PUBLICATIONS, FILMS AND COMPUTER GAMES ACT - SECT 67

Demonstration of unclassified, RC and MA 15+ computer games
A person must not demonstrate a computer game so that it can be seen from a public place if the game is:

(a) classified RC or MA 15+; or

(b) unclassified but would, if classified, be classified RC or MA 15+.

Fault elements:

(a) intentionally demonstrating the game; and

(b) knowledge that, or recklessness as to whether, the game can be seen from a public place; and

(c) knowledge that, or recklessness as to whether, the game is classified RC or MA 15+ or unclassified.


a website is a public place, a screenshot is a picture from a prohibited game. So for example think of it like this.

Lets say a porn magazine is banned. You can't post pictures of that online. I know that print SHOULD be different but under the Act it is treated the same.

I get why this concerns you jintor, pcpp and all....

but given it was published before the decision then you should be ok. BUT there is also something in the act that prohibits the advertisement and printing of material related to games which are likely to receive an RC or MA15 rating

interesting, very interesting.

There's a story in this Someone needs to bust open the video game classifications story in a journalistic sense and do it well. There is a gold mine in the act for investigative journalism and lack of consistency.


in other news, the nsw act has not changed since 1984. It is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE the NSW act does not deal with video games @ all but the border customs act prevents imports.

 

[Fredescu]

Maybe we should all rush out and buy the Syndicate copy of PCPP before it gets pulled off the shelves to be burnt in our bi-annual book burning celebration.

 

[Jintor]

I'd encourage that.

Ugh, law never catches up to technology. I was going to say that screenshots wouldn't be an example of someone 'demonstrat[ing] a game so that it could be seen from a public place'. Admittedly we don't fulfil (c) of the fault elements so we're probably fine, and we didn't demonstrate it as such, so whatever.

Fuckin' law, man.

 

[reptilescorpio]

but given it was published before the decision then you should be ok. BUT there is also something in the act that prohibits the advertisement and printing of material related to games which are likely to receive an RC or MA15 rating.

But they have the chance now to take back all the copies of the offending material and issue a recall to all outlets who have been delivered stock.

 

[Jintor]

But they have the chance now to take back all the copies of the offending material and issue a recall to all outlets who have been delivered stock.

Sure, but the point is the material (or demonstration) itself is not prohibited because it was made without the knowledge element required for it to attract the ambit of the legislation.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Sure, but the point is the material (or demonstration) itself is not prohibited because it was made without the knowledge element required for it to attract the ambit of the legislation.

Would that work the same with games that are released as T when after a month people decide to make it M like San Andreas and Oblivion?

 

[Jintor]

It's all circumstantial, and depends on the demonstrator's knowledge or reasonable expectation of the classification of the material. Syndicate for example might be more iffy if the violence or whatever was, like, shockingly explicit or had material in it that would almost definitely get a RC rating. But given that it wouldn't look out of place next to other games rated MA15+, recklessness would probably not be an issue.

Actually that's interesting about the MA15+ non-demonstrations. I wonder if that means that EB stores or JB Hi Fis for instance can't put an MA15+ game on their display units.

On a related note, given all the coverage we give to MA15+ games, I suspect that magazines and probably even websites up to and including video probably don't fall under the definition of 'demonstration', so the whole thing is probably bunk for anything that isn't a straight-up demo of the game in a public space. Well, it's that or it's unenforced.

 

[Choc]

key point is you probably had a fair idea syndicate would get MA15 (if anything) jintor


under strict viewing of the law you may have a problem, i highly doubt it though

websites actively showing pictures today would have a problem though

edit: Jintor to answer your question, yes that is correct. They should not have MA15 games on demo units in a public store

Publishers can do it at media events as we know everyone is over 15.....

edit: the big problem with the news.com.au article is that the screenshot specifically shows what the COB had an issue with

edit 2: FYI, Fuel TV regularly shows (as does a show on ONE HD) video of RC'd games.

Its unenforced, does not mean its not illegal

i wouldnt worry jintor, its just something to be definately aware of.

 

[Jintor]

Hold up Choc. The prohibition on 'demonstration' applies to MA15+ games as well, not just RC games. If demonstration applied to screenshots, videos et al, then coverage of MA15+ games would be nonexistant.

Damnit Choc I had enough on my hands dealing with the unclassified games article. Now I gotta work on this too? :|

 

[Choc]

another interesting point from the act. A classificatoin only lasts 2 years upon which time a review can be requested by

1. The minister in charge
2. The board itself
3. The publisher


So the RC games (if that DOES NOT change) banned more than 2 years ago once R18 is in could be up for it

Wonder if the Attorney General is aware of that fact.

I'm telling you, there is a fucking GOLD MINE in this act

edit: as per your MA15 'should not have screenshots' coverage, i agree. That is clearly unenforceable though. You might say that official playstation magazine shipping a video DVD with footage of MA15 games may run foul of this though....

or rather the one which had syndicate footage on shelves last week........

 

[Jintor]

I'm still getting my bloody mind map together...

 

[Choc]

and you might say this website is running foul of this now as well

http://www.gamearena.com.au/videos/latest.php/syndicate-deep-dive--agent-tech-trailer

that is a public demonstration. Not only that its a public demo of the EXACT thing it got the chop for.

 

[Jintor]

So basically what you're saying is that the laws are fucked.

 

[Choc]

So basically what you're saying is that the laws are fucked.

out of touch.

They wont ever get rid of the cant show RC rated content, but there should be a period where webmasters etc are allowed to pull down the content

Gamearena could be prosecuted right now

 

[Omikron]

So basically what you're saying is that the laws are fucked.

It IS Choc, many things are fucked.

 

[Choc]

under this law does this make distributing ma15 games on XBL/PSN illegal?


wow, man this is one major can of worms

 

[Jintor]

I was just tracking the free-to-play stuff and the point-of-sale digital distribution illegality... there's so much to play with now, and none of it good. :|

Why would it make distribution of MA15+ games on XBLA/PSN illegal? they're not demonstrations in a public place.

 

[Choc]

I was just tracking the free-to-play stuff and the point-of-sale digital distribution illegality... there's so much to play with now, and none of it good. :|

Why would it make distribution of MA15+ games on XBLA/PSN illegal? they're not demonstrations in a public place.

could you argue PSN is a public store?

you could...

and 'demo' video game



so games get demo versions

 

[Jintor]

It's not public because users have to specifically request the file to be downloaded towards them, if you see what I mean. Well, that's my interpretation of it anyway. I might go look at some case law. There might even be a definition as recorded in the legislation, or in the second reading speech...

We're probably overreacting, but whatever, it's just idle talk right now.

 

[Choc]

It's not public because users have to specifically request the file to be downloaded towards them, if you see what I mean. Well, that's my interpretation of it anyway. I might go look at some case law. There might even be a definition as recorded in the legislation, or in the second reading speech...

We may be over-reacting quite a bit, but whatever, it's just idle talk right now.

of course i am over reacting and it wouldn't be enforced, but under a strict definition of the law that is how it reads and quite frankly, game arena could easily be prosecuted. Telstras lawyers if they were aware of both (the act and the fact the video is up) wouldn't be happy.

I guess it depends if there is a definition of what public means. Let me look


FUCK WOW check this out

(1A) A publication must not be classified if it contains an advertisement that has been refused approval.

lets say BF3 gets a live active Syndicate ad in it. Bam. Now that syndicate is banned, all ads for it are banned. And that specifically references 'computer games that contain advertisements'


'"place" includes vacant land, premises, a vehicle, a vessel and an aircraft (except a vessel on an international voyage or an aircraft on an international flight).


so you can play syndicate on an international aircraft, even if that plane is Australian based (ie qantas)

 

[Yagharek]

of course i am over reacting

This quote will come in handy.

 

[Shaneus]

Anything on that list can be bundled. The Katamari PSP game and the Tekken bundles aren't though.

The PS3 Katamari is meant to be great.

Sah-weet. What do you know about Dead Rising 2 in the case of "The company that something something DLC something more money."? Would the game be as big as just the regular game? Is it in the same world?
Only problem is that it's GFWL, not Steam

 

[Jintor]

Case West is pretty much Dead Rising 2 with a Frank West overlay. It's just as large and has the crazy... uh... sandbox mode? that DR2 didn't have.

 

[Yagharek]

PES never ceases to amaze. Playing the 2012 PS3 demo, getting smashed in terms of possession, defended 8 or so shots from Inter (as Bayern). Get my first shot of the game, 60th minute and its a 20 yard rocket from Muller straight into the top left corner.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Sah-weet. What do you know about Dead Rising 2 in the case of "The company that something something DLC something more money."? Would the game be as big as just the regular game? Is it in the same world?
Only problem is that it's GFWL, not Steam

Here is the list of changes. Haven't heard much about the GFWL in it aside from the fact that RPS couldn't get it going, so that sounds bad.

 

[Salazar]

PES never ceases to amaze. Playing the 2012 PS3 demo, getting smashed in terms of possession, defended 8 or so shots from Inter (as Bayern). Get my first shot of the game, 60th minute and its a 20 yard rocket from Muller straight into the top left corner.

FIFA 12 iPad still amazing for me. The opposition keepers are straight-up retarded, but the game is great.

 

[Yagharek]

Now I remember why the Wii version is better.

 

[Yagharek]

Also, I think I'm done buying Edge magazine. It's a poor magazine nowadays, albeit a poor one with good content.

Let me explain.

I bought the latest issue (not the Xmas one, the December one with Bioshock Infinite cover). Went to the review section and turns out I'm missing 15 or so pages. The four games reviewed in that span were Skyrim, Call of Duty 3, Assassins Creed and Battlefield 3. Not entirely my favourite games, but also reviews found on their website a month ago if I so cared.

The rest of the magazine is industry focussed - so as someone with no interest in the industry and more interest in the games themselves, I just feel like it's no longer worth it. They seem to be chasing the iTrend and sanctifying venture capital exercises, as well as covering philosophical introspection about game design ethos that is completely alien to the games industry and independent types.

I'll still read their reviews online - theyve always been pretty good to read, but it's just getting to the point now where it's even clearer that it's just not for me. I don't find out anything new by reading it.

 

[Card Boy]

I got this acouple weeks ago and am loving it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003EI0TF6/

Keep in mind it ends up cheaper if you take off VAT and order 25quid worth of stuff for the free postage.

Thinking of ordering Serenity now.

 

[Jintor]

What a coinci-dink, I have that on my shelf here too.

 

[elektrixx]

Just for the heck of it, I preordered...

 

[Shaneus]

Here is the list of changes. Haven't heard much about the GFWL in it aside from the fact that RPS couldn't get it going, so that sounds bad.

Ah, that sucks. Hopefully it's fixed. TBH I haven't had that many issues with GFWL but when I run into them, they frustrate the shit out of me.

BTW, for anyone looking, Sonic Generations is $15 on Amazon and is Steamworks. I'd love to jump in, but don't know whether it'll go on sale on Steam or not. Fake edit: It cannay be bought by Australians on Amazon. Guessing that if gifting were to occur, the problem with needing a US IP when activating would occur, just like it did for me with Mafia 2 and an Amazon key.

Shame, $15 is the perfect price point.

 

[Jintor]

Why is internet connection so slow when Steam sales are onnnnnnnn

I need my vidjagames

 

[Card Boy]

I think i might get Farscape bluray next. Yay/nay Ausgaf?

 

[reptilescorpio]

Will buy Syndicate on GMG for $35 or wait for LOGS $35. I am convinced that $35 is the perfect price point as games get down to $40, which is a great price but if it drops again to $20 (as it usually does a month or 2 later) and I haven't even booted it up I feel a little silly. At least a $35 you Feel great that you got a game for 1/3 of RRP.

Dungeons of Dredmor is pretty great. Bursting with character. Never played a Roguelike so it could be good to ease me into the genre.

Psychonauts has a horrible camera on PC, strange since I played it on PC only a few years ago. Never noticed.

 

[Shaneus]

rs: Psychonauts received a bit of a megapatch earlier this year (at least, on Steam) to add things like proper 360 pad compatibility, improved graphics modes/settings, that sort of thing. Maybe it's possible the camera was tweaked as well?

FIFA 12 iPad still amazing for me. The opposition keepers are straight-up retarded, but the game is great.

Worth it for iPhone? I noticed that it has a football manager component which folks seem to completely flip their shit over, so I guess it could be okay for a buck.

PS. I think I might jump in on Katamari and DR2:Frankie Says Relax... I haven't yet finished vanilla DR2, but not because I didn't like it, so more couldn't hurt.

 

[evlcookie]

I think i might get Farscape bluray next. Yay/nay Ausgaf?

If storyteller still floated around he would say yay.

I haven't seen the series in many many years though.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Might have to hook up the 360 controller for Psychonauts then.

PS. I think I might jump in on Katamari and DR2:Frankie Says Relax... I haven't yet finished vanilla DR2, but not because I didn't like it, so more couldn't hurt.

Have you got Deus Ex 3? would be a much better purchase than DR2 Westsyde since you already own the OG DR2. Deus Ex 3 is INCREDIBLY GOOD.

 

[Gazunta]

I liked back on The Zone when they demonstrated Mortal Kombat cheats by re-enacting the game themselves.

Now I need to go draw a comic about Chuck Rock. SIMPLER TIMES

 

[Yagharek]

Xenoblade progress:

Head up to the hills to the mine.
Get sidetracked trying to beat an angry bunny rabbit boss.
Die.
Repeat the climb from Colony 9.
Die by same angry rabbit.
Repeat 3 more times.
Get to rabbit again.
Run away.
Jump off cliff.
Take alternate route to mines.
Enter cave with level 38 monsters just hanging out.
Die.
Take off from Colony 9 again and go the first route, avoiding the angry rabbit altogether.

Much better.

 

[VOOK]

I think i might get Farscape bluray next. Yay/nay Ausgaf?

Yay.

I had never watched it when I met Claudia Black and Ben Browder, felt like an ass.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Now I need to go draw a comic about Chuck Rock. SIMPLER TIMES

MY LIFE IS COMPLETE

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Flight didn't crash. Woohoo! Service was terrible though.

Loving the northern hemisphere winter season.

What's the cheapest place to buy BF3 and SWTOR for PC?

 

[Shaneus]

I already have DE3, ahaha. You should know, you scored a fiver from it on GMG

I liked back on The Zone when they demonstrated Mortal Kombat cheats by re-enacting the game themselves.

Now I need to go draw a comic about Chuck Rock. SIMPLER TIMES

Oh, The Zone. I remember how happy I was when Andrew Humphries and Stuart Clarke made appearances on there. My favourite writers from my favourite (at the time) gaming magazine.

 

[commissar]

Also, I think I'm done buying Edge magazine. It's a poor magazine nowadays, albeit a poor one with good content.

Personally I enjoy the columns and spotlight on how games are made etc.
BUT.
There's one columnist called Brian Howe who fucking infuriates me with his worthless drivel
"Hey what if the 4DS was fourth dimensional hurrhurr"
"Lets not talk about DRM in any meaningful was but instead make up pretend evil companies yay"

FUCK that guy.

 

[Yagharek]

Personally I enjoy the columns and spotlight on how games are made etc.
BUT.
There's one columnist called Brian Howe who fucking infuriates me with his worthless drivel
"Hey what if the 4DS was fourth dimensional hurrhurr"
"Lets not talk about DRM in any meaningful was but instead make up pretend evil companies yay"

FUCK that guy.

None of the columns really do much for me anymore. RedEye and Biffovision were the last good ones. Tohiro Nagoshi was an indulgent bore.

Games TM has had better columnists in the form of Tim Rogers (no longer writing there) and The Shape.

 

[Choc]

it will be interesting to see what happens to eleks order

because, being digital, its not illegal for EA to provide it (from a US server)

loophole in current laws.

 

[Gazunta]

What's this digital thing you guys are talking about?

 

[Gazunta]

This staying up till 1am making comics bullshit has to stop sometime.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME HERE'S A COMIC ABOUT CHUCK ROCK

 

[BananaArnie]

Woo, should be good! Salazar I know you're out there too! Water feature thing sounds good. So uh...do I just awkwardly walk up and say "Clipper? Kritz?"

shout 5 out of 5 a bunch and anyone that isnt kritz will clearly be scared off so he will be easier to spot

EDIT

Noted. I'll just say 5/5 stars.

exactly

This quote will come in handy.

should get a mod to tag him as that.