• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

BritGAF |OT5| Superb Birds, Absurd Turds and Disturbed Nerds

Status
Not open for further replies.

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
Housewarming innit.

Saturday 23rd August.

Manchistor.

Just the usual mini meet shenanigans, go and get pissed, maybe some nice grub somewhere, go have a boogie, all that jazz. I have the space to put a few out of town peeps up too.

Répondez s'il vous plaît.

We can't make it! We're at a wedding. Bugger :'(

Ps daps we don't know yet. We can't party with out the sofa but the sofa is not here yet... Sploat, Inc thanks you for your interest though :)
 
Housewarming innit.

Saturday 23rd August.

Manchistor.

Just the usual mini meet shenanigans, go and get pissed, maybe some nice grub somewhere, go have a boogie, all that jazz. I have the space to put a few out of town peeps up too.

Répondez s'il vous plaît.

Ah well I definitely can't do that. That's the day me and Andy are going to the Secret Cinema Back to the Future thing. Have a blast though!

Sploat, keep me informed as to when yours is likely to be :)
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
Whoever goes, make sure to piss off his roomate by bringing any and all handheld games and dont stop talking about games
He's not that bad! It's my brother by the way, tread lightly.

#injoke
Weekend before my wedding innit, I may be there (nothing in so far) but I reserve the right to not be there like.
Fuck that Steve, you're penned in now bruv.
I could come. I don't know when Sploat is having hers but in theory I could do that too although two visits to Manchester in one month could taint my essence permanently.

Put me down for an optimisitc maybe
So that's another one for the permanent marker, excellent.
We can't make it! We're at a wedding. Bugger :'(

Ps daps we don't know yet. We can't party with out the sofa but the sofa is not here yet... Sploat, Inc thanks you for your interest though :)
Boo!
Ah well I definitely can't do that. That's the day me and Andy are going to the Secret Cinema Back to the Future thing. Have a blast though!

Sploat, keep me informed as to when yours is likely to be :)
Boo!

(This is an acceptable reason.)
 
The thunder and lightning down here was a good alarm clock. Not a fan of the whole "oh god it's too hot my bedding is clinging to me" thing though.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
Housewarming innit.

Saturday 23rd August.

Manchistor.

Just the usual mini meet shenanigans, go and get pissed, maybe some nice grub somewhere, go have a boogie, all that jazz. I have the space to put a few out of town peeps up too.

Répondez s'il vous plaît.

4h 35 on the train, £42... hmmmmm. Tempting!
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
Don't toy with me Sniv. We can spoon bro, I'm an awesome big spoon.

It's wonderfully phonetic for those unfamiliar with the correct pronunciation.

maybe maybe. If I can convince some more people to make the epic trek with me then it might be more likely ;) never been to manchester though, would be nice.
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
Day off Soturi. Picked up some stock, helped set up for service and had a primo brekkie but other than that, just been hanging around the house doing chores, had a quick workout and bopped to some tunes.

Just getting some food shopping in with the bro now, then having a little cocktail practice (mojito's ahoy), cooking some Thai green curry and watching a flick.

Early night for busy day tomorrow, that's about all that's fit to print.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Mohito.jpg
 
My day has been shocking and traumatic. The lightning this morning cut the power to my desk and others around it so i had to move ten feet away and sit somewhere else. This took some time and twenty minutes after I finished plugging all my toot back in the power was back, at which point I couldn't be bothered.

Sitting in a new space with subtly different ambient sound and different things going on in my peripheral vision has been an interesting experience. In this new place, time seems to flow at a hitherto unseen speed. I cannot believe it's almost four o'clock.

Now I don't know whether or not to move all my stuff back. I think I'll have to. I have a drawer of doom full of unfinished shite that just isn't going to get cleared up before I go at the end of August. I pity the person who has to go through my working folder in the months after I leave.

Watched an interesting film last night called Find Me Guilty. True story about a high profile legal case against a whole Mafia family and their affiliates. One of the high up guys in the family, Jackie Dinorscio (played by Vin Diesel), decides to forgo an attourney and acts as his own defence lawyer, meaning he has to cross examine witnesses, including the prosectution's star witness, Jackie's cousin who fled to the FBI after he failed to assassinate Jackie.

Thought Vin Diesel was very good.

MINOR GoT SPOILERS AHEAD

Peter Dinklage also turned up as a defence lawyer. Very odd to see him in a court room again, I wonder whether the film had any influence on him being cast as Tyrion.

Anyway, enjoyable if you like court room dramas.

/stream of consciousness
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
Picking up the ingredients for cocktail night, just asked an assistant where to find the ice, she points nonchalantly in the vague direction of half the store and says:

"Over there in the freezers."

No shit Sherlock, don't go out of your way of anything!
Mail me a mojito please bud.

I will have one too if you're making a pitcher. Mojito is the best cocktail by miles.
No probs guys, I'll be a whizz by the end of the night.

Note: quality and structural integrity can not be guaranteed.
lol
 
Just got in.

Was walking home in the rain, all enigmatic and shit with my black leather jacket and black suit trousers and smart pointy shoes, my hair slightly wet and cool looking because of the precipitation. I'm listening to this on my MP3 player.

I live near a school and I walk past a bus stop currently sheltering some youths between 12 and 14 years old. I'm minding my business when this bespectacled girl waves at me. Walking at such a pace, my momentum carries me past the girl before I can stop and investigate.

I turn around and pull out one earphone and look quizzical. "Hi" she says. I scan the faces of the youths and they all look sheepish and vacant. "Did you want something?" I ask. The girl looks confused and says no. "Well...hi" I say before continuing my march home feeling confused and vaguely affronted myself.

Perhaps the girl mistook me for someone else? She required glasses after all, perhaps her eyesight was not so good. I certainly had never seen these particular kids and I'm good at faces. Perhaps she had been dared to greet me by the other kids. Least likely of all is the possibility she was just being friendly. This "say hello to a stranger" thing is more commonly seen on the continent, it's usually a "bonjour".

I'm still puzzled.

Fucking kids and their mind games.

dwB8Uj5.gif
 
I've had something weirder on buses. A teen girl sat next to me and asked something ridiculous like "do you like me? do you think I'm hot?". I was like 20 at the time. Trollbait right there. I just respond with "uhh who are you? What do you want?" then they go back to sit with their friends, giggling. Don't ever take the question seriously if this ever comes up, kids just like this dare kind of uncomfortable crap.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Fuck me. Just casually singing a nursery rhyme to the kiddo. Minding my own business as I deftly wove a tale of money, rye, and a damned good cake. There we were, enjoying a peek into the life of a monarch long-passed, when this fucking blackbird comes down, and pecks the nose off the most vulnerable member of the household: the maid. Pecks her fucking nose off.

Well, me and the kid are shaken. There's no follow up to the story* so I have no idea if the maid continued to be employed by the king and queen. I'm thinking that her horrific disfigurement will leave her facing all manner of discrimination and almost certainly unemployed, but I don't really want to burden a kid of less than five months with such gruesome truths.

It pecked her fucking nose off. This blackbird just swept down out of nowhere and avenged his two dozen cousins by striking at the weak and defenceless maid as she went about her daily business. Not the gluttonous king that had inspired the creation of the avian-apocalypse pastry, no. He's still sitting on the throne waiting for someone to bring him a puffin-spunk latte.

Jesus, this has been utterly harrowing. No wonder we abolished the sixpence.

*well, no real follow up, anyway. There are two conflicting stories, each of which is clearly fabricated:

Witness 'A' said:
There was such a commotion,
that little Jenny wren
Flew down into the garden,
and put it back again
Oh, fuck off. A bird can't simply replace a nose in such a manner. Even if we were dealing with a human...

Witness 'B' said:
They sent for the king's doctor,
who sewed it on again;
He sewed it on so neatly,
the seam was never seen.
Objection. Bollocks. You're lying.

The blackbird pecked her nose off. It didn't neatly remove it with a scalpel. You ain't sowing shit, or should I say, guano?

Amateur hour cover up job. Jokers.
 

8bit

Knows the Score
Least likely of all is the possibility she was just being friendly. This "say hello to a stranger" thing is more commonly seen on the continent, it's usually a "bonjour".

Even having lived over here for years I still can't get comfortable doing that. I usually avoid the gaze of strangers until they pass then mumble "Gruezi".
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
It turns out most of the cool people can't turn up on the 23rd August so I'm delaying the meet by a few weeks. It'll be some time in September now, probably nearer the start so as not to coincide with the main meet.

Deets to follow. If you can, let me know when would be better for you guys and I'll try and accommodate as many peeps as possible.
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
Quiet today. Don't tell me everyone's working hard?

It's Vegetation Week (TM) so I'm usually splayed out on some bean bags and reaching for the computer requires Effort. Also, still drinking and drink + heat means -energy. It's too hot for Things!

My day has been shocking and traumatic. The lightning this morning cut the power to my desk and others around it so i had to move ten feet away and sit somewhere else. This took some time and twenty minutes after I finished plugging all my toot back in the power was back, at which point I couldn't be bothered.

Sitting in a new space with subtly different ambient sound and different things going on in my peripheral vision has been an interesting experience. In this new place, time seems to flow at a hitherto unseen speed. I cannot believe it's almost four o'clock.

Now I don't know whether or not to move all my stuff back. I think I'll have to. I have a drawer of doom full of unfinished shite that just isn't going to get cleared up before I go at the end of August. I pity the person who has to go through my working folder in the months after I leave.

That's real stuff, that is. If I ever had to move desk I'd probably move firms. I have a great seat with two decent window views and nice neighbours. I like my area. I don't have total coverage if I want to go on the internet during work hours (i.e. there are people sat behind me) but I'm only on one row of desks (i.e. only 2 other people, who are very nice, in my neighbourhood).

Just got in.

Was walking home in the rain, all enigmatic and shit with my black leather jacket and black suit trousers and smart pointy shoes, my hair slightly wet and cool looking because of the precipitation. I'm listening to this on my MP3 player.

I live near a school and I walk past a bus stop currently sheltering some youths between 12 and 14 years old. I'm minding my business when this bespectacled girl waves at me. Walking at such a pace, my momentum carries me past the girl before I can stop and investigate.

I turn around and pull out one earphone and look quizzical. "Hi" she says. I scan the faces of the youths and they all look sheepish and vacant. "Did you want something?" I ask. The girl looks confused and says no. "Well...hi" I say before continuing my march home feeling confused and vaguely affronted myself.

Perhaps the girl mistook me for someone else? She required glasses after all, perhaps her eyesight was not so good. I certainly had never seen these particular kids and I'm good at faces. Perhaps she had been dared to greet me by the other kids. Least likely of all is the possibility she was just being friendly. This "say hello to a stranger" thing is more commonly seen on the continent, it's usually a "bonjour".

I'm still puzzled.

Fucking kids and their mind games.

dwB8Uj5.gif

Children! We once went into a local newsagents and said "We like Guinness!" together and walked out, because, you know, we were dared to and it was hillaaaarious.

Fuck me. Just casually singing a nursery rhyme to the kiddo. Minding my own business as I deftly wove a tale of money, rye, and a damned good cake. There we were, enjoying a peek into the life of a monarch long-passed, when this fucking blackbird comes down, and pecks the nose off the most vulnerable member of the household: the maid. Pecks her fucking nose off.

Well, me and the kid are shaken. There's no follow up to the story* so I have no idea if the maid continued to be employed by the king and queen. I'm thinking that her horrific disfigurement will leave her facing all manner of discrimination and almost certainly unemployed, but I don't really want to burden a kid of less than five months with such gruesome truths.

It pecked her fucking nose off. This blackbird just swept down out of nowhere and avenged his two dozen cousins by striking at the weak and defenceless maid as she went about her daily business. Not the gluttonous king that had inspired the creation of the avian-apocalypse pastry, no. He's still sitting on the throne waiting for someone to bring him a puffin-spunk latte.

Jesus, this has been utterly harrowing. No wonder we abolished the sixpence.

*well, no real follow up, anyway. There are two conflicting stories, each of which is clearly fabricated:


Oh, fuck off. A bird can't simply replace a nose in such a manner. Even if we were dealing with a human...


Objection. Bollocks. You're lying.

The blackbird pecked her nose off. It didn't neatly remove it with a scalpel. You ain't sowing shit, or should I say, guano?

Amateur hour cover up job. Jokers.

I do not understand this. At first I thought that a blackbird had attacked your child! Then I re-read it and realised it was a nursery rhyme. Then read it again and wondered whether a blackbird attacked a toy maid. In my mind's eye you were performing the story with tiny hay figurines and a blackbird came down and took away the maid.
 

Son Of D

Member
It turns out most of the cool people can't turn up on the 23rd August so I'm delaying the meet by a few weeks. It'll be some time in September now, probably nearer the start so as not to coincide with the main meet.

Deets to follow. If you can, let me know when would be better for you guys and I'll try and accommodate as many peeps as possible.

Depending on the date, I might be able to show up. Since I'm moving in early September as well so it might clash with my move. I'll let you know soon.
 
Fairy tales and whatnot are creepy shit.

Somehow we still tell stories to kids about a cannibal child eating witch or that time a blonde girl got ripped to shreds by bears that eat porridge and sleep in beds.
 

SmokyDave

Member
I do not understand this. At first I thought that a blackbird had attacked your child! Then I re-read it and realised it was a nursery rhyme. Then read it again and wondered whether a blackbird attacked a toy maid. In my mind's eye you were performing the story with tiny hay figurines and a blackbird came down and took away the maid.
Are you not familiar with t'nursery rhyme 'Sing a Song of Sixpence'?

I've spoiled the ending so I can give a graphic violence trigger warning to those of a sensitive nature. Birds fight dirty.

Sing a Song of Sixpence,
A pocket full of rye.
Four and twenty blackbirds,
Baked in a pie.
When the pie was opened,
The birds began to sing;
Wasn't that a dainty dish,
To set before the king?
The king was in his counting house,
Counting out his money;
The queen was in the parlour,
Eating bread and honey.
The maid was in the garden,
Hanging out the clothes,
When down came a blackbird
And pecked off her fucking nose.

It's a classic 'bird mutilates maid' tale.
 
Well, looks like now I'm not only on the hunt for a London job but also a London room. Got a friend living there on the lookout, since she's moving to a new place along with her flatmates and I will most likely jump in, but anyways.

What are some good creative industry/media industry/advertising industry news websites to look around?

Anything cultural helps too. Also, I'm really interested in how would you describe most local newspapers, so I can aggregate all of your biases into my own before talking smack about the Sun.

Or was it the Daily Mirror? I need a crash course!

Also, it's a done deal, moving there in the first week of September. Already feeling scared.

I can't help on the job or room front, but I can take you for a beer?

The only paper I read is the Metro. Because it's free.
 
Anything cultural helps too. Also, I'm really interested in how would you describe most local newspapers, so I can aggregate all of your biases into my own before talking smack about the Sun.

Or was it the Daily Mirror? I need a crash course!

Here's what you need to know in one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

In summary...

Tabloids tend to manipulate stories, can be a bit sexist/racist etc depending on the title, but can be entertaining reads at times.

The Sun - Good if you're a fan of breasts alongside news about death, Bad if you're a fan of not lying about why people die in major tragedies.
Daily Mirror - Better than it used to be. Left wing tabloid, sadly responsible for Piers Morgan. Their parent company is doing good stuff like Us Vs Th3m, but are likely due being pulled in to phonehacking.
The Guardian - Lefty quinola obsessed and enemy of the British state. And the rest of the media. Don't go on Comment is Free online if you value your sanity. Love a liveblog.
The Telegraph - Incredibly Tory, incredibly whiny.
The Times - Think they're more important than they probably are. Good investigations on Sundays, because for historical reasons all are papers are different on Sundays. Tory. Wordy.
Daily Express - Diana/Weather/Xenophonia
Daily Star - The latest on Big Brother, lies and bullshit
Sunday Sport - Not a newspaper but a remarkable weekly work of horrific fiction.
Metro - It's free. PR guff mainly but free.
The Independent - Like a more worthy version of The Guardian. Will do a front page with a black and white photo and the word "DEVASTATION" like it's an amazing statement every other day. Despite being about WHAT REALLY MATTERS, online they're shit clickbait.
The I - Like the Independent, but with some stuffyness taken out. Nothing is longer than 200 words. So, Twitter when you don't have an internet connection.

Edit: I wrote loads more than I expected to there. I tend to read the Graudiad online. (The Guardian is famous for not being able to spell for shit historically)
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
Are you not familiar with t'nursery rhyme 'Sing a Song of Sixpence'?

I've spoiled the ending so I can give a graphic violence trigger warning to those of a sensitive nature. Birds fight dirty.



It's a classic 'bird mutilates maid' tale.

Blimey!

No, I missed out on most nursery rhymes etc. My parents were slightly...um...different...

Here's what you need to know in one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

In summary...

Tabloids tend to manipulate stories, can be a bit sexist/racist etc depending on the title, but can be entertaining reads at times.

The Sun - Good if you're a fan of breasts alongside news about death, Bad if you're a fan of not lying about why people die in major tragedies.
Daily Mirror - Better than it used to be. Left wing tabloid, sadly responsible for Piers Morgan. Their parent company is doing good stuff like Us Vs Th3m, but are likely due being pulled in to phonehacking.
The Guardian - Lefty quinola obsessed and enemy of the British state. And the rest of the media. Don't go on Comment is Free online if you value your sanity. Love a liveblog.
The Telegraph - Incredibly Tory, incredibly whiny.
The Times - Think they're more important than they probably are. Good investigations on Sundays, because for historical reasons all are papers are different on Sundays. Tory. Wordy.
Daily Express - Diana/Weather/Xenophonia
Daily Star - The latest on Big Brother, lies and bullshit
Sunday Sport - Not a newspaper but a remarkable weekly work of horrific fiction.
Metro - It's free. PR guff mainly but free.
The Independent - Like a more worthy version of The Guardian. Will do a front page with a black and white photo and the word "DEVASTATION" like it's an amazing statement every other day. Despite being about WHAT REALLY MATTERS, online they're shit clickbait.
The I - Like the Independent, but with some stuffyness taken out. Nothing is longer than 200 words. So, Twitter when you don't have an internet connection.

Edit: I wrote loads more than I expected to there. I tend to read the Graudiad online. (The Guardian is famous for not being able to spell for shit historically)

I like the Graun too, mostly out of habit. Keith Stuart is a good games journalist and there are occasionally bits by Cara Ellison and Keza MacDonald that are good, although they only come along once every month or so.

You also missed out the Daily Mail!

Daily Mail - reactionary guff for people who buy Prince George souvenir plates. Incredibly fearful of anything un-British and wishes that we lived in a country ruled by Blackshirts. If you are even slightly gay, have any other skin colour than milky Aryan white or look a bit different, you should generally be careful of people reading the Mail as they are basically fascists who dream of a perfect Stepford Wives world. Basically, you should hate the Mail. It's putrid, vile and weeps the pus of wilful ignorance from every rancid, tumescent orifice. If you see anybody reading it, even a beloved family member, you should take a wrench to their head until they are no longer able to read again.
 

Slowdive

Banned
Here's what you need to know in one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

In summary...

Tabloids tend to manipulate stories, can be a bit sexist/racist etc depending on the title, but can be entertaining reads at times.

The Sun - Good if you're a fan of breasts alongside news about death, Bad if you're a fan of not lying about why people die in major tragedies.
Daily Mirror - Better than it used to be. Left wing tabloid, sadly responsible for Piers Morgan. Their parent company is doing good stuff like Us Vs Th3m, but are likely due being pulled in to phonehacking.
The Guardian - Lefty quinola obsessed and enemy of the British state. And the rest of the media. Don't go on Comment is Free online if you value your sanity. Love a liveblog.
The Telegraph - Incredibly Tory, incredibly whiny.
The Times - Think they're more important than they probably are. Good investigations on Sundays, because for historical reasons all are papers are different on Sundays. Tory. Wordy.
Daily Express - Diana/Weather/Xenophonia
Daily Star - The latest on Big Brother, lies and bullshit
Sunday Sport - Not a newspaper but a remarkable weekly work of horrific fiction.
Metro - It's free. PR guff mainly but free.
The Independent - Like a more worthy version of The Guardian. Will do a front page with a black and white photo and the word "DEVASTATION" like it's an amazing statement every other day. Despite being about WHAT REALLY MATTERS, online they're shit clickbait.
The I - Like the Independent, but with some stuffyness taken out. Nothing is longer than 200 words. So, Twitter when you don't have an internet connection.

Edit: I wrote loads more than I expected to there. I tend to read the Graudiad online. (The Guardian is famous for not being able to spell for shit historically)

And The Daily Mail is that bad you missed it out completely.
 

Slowdive

Banned
There was an image with a collage of headlines from the Daily Mail (I think) about what gave you/could prevent cancer and I can't find it. I'm pretty sure they contradicted themselves on one of them.

Also, the comments section of their site is so awful, but sometimes it's hard not to look at them.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
Blimey!

No, I missed out on most nursery rhymes etc. My parents were slightly...um...different...



I like the Graun too, mostly out of habit. Keith Stuart is a good games journalist and there are occasionally bits by Cara Ellison and Keza MacDonald that are good, although they only come along once every month or so.

You also missed out the Daily Mail!

Daily Mail - reactionary guff for people who buy Prince George souvenir plates. Incredibly fearful of anything un-British and wishes that we lived in a country ruled by Blackshirts. If you are even slightly gay, have any other skin colour than milky Aryan white or look a bit different, you should generally be careful of people reading the Mail as they are basically fascists who dream of a perfect Stepford Wives world. Basically, you should hate the Mail. It's putrid, vile and weeps the pus of wilful ignorance from every rancid, tumescent orifice. If you see anybody reading it, even a beloved family member, you should take a wrench to their head until they are no longer able to read again.

I like that the women's section of the Mail (and the website) is so horrifically misogynistic that I think women reading it is akin to self harm. Awful awful thing.
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
So 23rd August was a bust, most of the out of towners couldn't come, and as it's easier for the Mancs to fit in just popping into town for a few beers it seems fair that we try and fit around them. That being the case, it seems the following week (30th August) might be better.

How does that sit with peeps?
 

sploatee

formerly Oynox Slider
Obligatory Daily Mail video: Why the Daily Mail is evil

It's not a bad video, but I would've preferred it to be a bit more rigorous and less preaching to the converted. More discipline!!!

I like that the women's section of the Mail (and the website) is so horrifically misogynistic that I think women reading it is akin to self harm. Awful awful thing.

I sometimes see the secretaries reading it. I cannot understand.

So 23rd August was a bust, most of the out of towners couldn't come, and as it's easier for the Mancs to fit in just popping into town for a few beers it seems fair that we try and fit around them. That being the case, it seems the following week (30th August) might be better.

How does that sit with peeps?

That should work for us.


---

Today we are going to Slattery's, which is supposedly a Manchester institution and makes the finest cakes in all of Albion. I am going to don my cake-tasting hat and will report back.
 

SteveWD40

Member
So 23rd August was a bust, most of the out of towners couldn't come, and as it's easier for the Mancs to fit in just popping into town for a few beers it seems fair that we try and fit around them. That being the case, it seems the following week (30th August) might be better.

How does that sit with peeps?

Now that actually is my wedding.

So count me in.








YSzO1NI.gif


IToday we are going to Slattery's, which is supposedly a Manchester institution and makes the finest cakes in all of Albion. I am going to don my cake-tasting hat and will report back.

Jen's Aunt is a chocolatier there, so go easy with your review ;)

Oh and they are pretty good, do cakes for footballers weddings / birthdays and we are getting our wedding cake for free from them...

:D
 
So 23rd August was a bust, most of the out of towners couldn't come, and as it's easier for the Mancs to fit in just popping into town for a few beers it seems fair that we try and fit around them. That being the case, it seems the following week (30th August) might be better.

How does that sit with peeps?

Good for me
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
So Steve can't make it, boo!

But sploatee and Musha can, yay!

I think jimbor is busy until the middle of Sept, so he might just be a write off anyway.

Mike, Jed, Daps, whoever else, what say you?

It's just a case of getting the most people accommodated as possible, I'm never going to be able to get everyone sorted unfortunately.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom