The bullshit being peddled was that Spain would block Scotland's EU application. That lie has been shot down. It's getting tiresome correcting falsehoods by Unionists. Same as with Scotland's own independence campaign.
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Catalonia to split from Spain within 48 hours of secession vote
- Thread starter LordOfLore
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The bullshit being peddled was that Spain would block Scotland's EU application. That lie has been shot down. It's getting tiresome correcting falsehoods by Unionists. Same as with Scotland's own independence campaign.
AuthenticM
Member
fuck the Spanish government
Any peaceful, efficient way you got there to reform the government and end the monarchy?
You had claimed Spain would block Scottish EU membership. Nothing of the sort was said and in fact Spain now SUPPORTS their entry. I'm done with your blatant fear-mongering.
Getting republican parties a majority in parliament.
Also, thinking that the monarchy is the problem and that removing it will finally bring a Utopia is stupid. It's not the monarchy, it's the corrupted right-wing government that we have and their voters.
It's fine that you don't understand the subtleties of the diplomatic situation of Scotland post Brexit compared to before Brexit when the independence referendum took place. What's not fine is that you try to school others based on your (lack of) knowledge.
Spain clearly hinted in 2014 that they would oppose an independent Scotland joining the EU because it could have drawn some parallels to the situation of Catalonia. Spain clearly doesn't oppose Scotland joining the EU now because UK is already out of EU practically, so their situation is rather similar to Slovakia, Slovenia and Croatia than Catalonia.
SyenceLabb
Member
The supreme irony of all this is had Madrid allowed a referendum it would have likely been voted down and the whole independence debate shut down for a generation, like with Quebec. Spain has really fucked up here and it's probable that attitudes among Catalans towards independence has strengthened.
Hinted? Oh, OK. Lol. Got any proof there.
Kremlin propaganda outlets have been supporting Catalan independence in their belief it would weaken NATO and the EU.....somehow.
So this is happening because Russian outlets?
In part yes.
You should calm down, lol.
I said Spain threatened to block a EU entry during the 2014 Scottish independent referendum. That is how the international press back then also took it.
Of course Spain hasn't any problem now that Brexit is happening and the UK, including Scotland, is soon out of the EU anyway. Completely different preconditions.
By the way, here is yet another article that says:
"Spain has dropped its plan to veto an application by an independent Scotland to join the EU."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/spain-foreign-minister-alfonso-dastis-no-veto-independent-scotland-eu-membership-application-a7662531.html
...which means it had that plan before, since 2014.
mehrmantrout
Member
Julian Assange is cheerleader in chief for Catalonia that should tell you all you need to know
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
I would rather nations stay more unified and strong. Don't want Scotland to split from GB either. Aren't they stronger together?
The EU remains dead silent. Shameful.
LOL
I'm quitting now. I can't get bothered to chat with people that have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
No. But Kremlin media HAS been supportive of Catalan independence. Which is dumb really has it allows pro-Spain voices to push the narrative that the independendists are Kremlin stooges.
Christ.
Do you want to hear something funny? Back in 2006 Mariano Rajoy (actual president of Spain) requested the celebration of a referendum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIuDZ8xwWQY
Of course back then it was a tool to hurt the socialist party in power. Once again, fuck the Spanish government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIuDZ8xwWQY
Of course back then it was a tool to hurt the socialist party in power. Once again, fuck the Spanish government.
If people want to be independent let them
Your previous link doesn't support this post.
"Hinted". Rajoy's statement in that previous link was a veiled threat to use Spain veto's right to postpone Scotland's admission for ever more or less.
There are more articles from 2013 and 2014 which have the same reading on the situation and statements not only from Spanish officials but also from Barroso and other EU officials who paint the same picture. Spain was ready to do whatever it took to not create a precedent.
Even post-Brexit it took some time for Spain to revise their position.
His Majesty
Banned
Back to the good ol' days of empires.
That's nice. You should let Ukrainians, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians know that they'd be better off under the rule of Moscow so.
Business
Member
Jesus, pack it up.
Depends.
If smaller nations are part of the same united EU, isn't it roughly the same? You're just removing one layer of intermediary government.
Obviously, there's something rotten in Spain if police are shooting at people trying to vote.
His Majesty
Banned
"A referendum in Catalonia? What are you talking about?"
what the fuck
OverBlood 3
Banned
Come back under British rule, you know you want to. Never mind all that independence stuff.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Ah yes, the Russians and their 9d chess set.
Always a shame when people can't see their own conspiracy nonsense for pointing at others.
Always a shame when people can't see their own conspiracy nonsense for pointing at others.
This post mostly tells me to be careful of an overly simplistic world view. This is some "Hitler was a vegetarian" level bullshit.
What do you mean by this?
EU doesn't have text about the event of a country "split", and I'd say it could be a special case. Why would the "new Spain" would stay in and the Catalonia be out by default? Such a situation is quite a mess...
No doubt for Catalonia, but there were doubts about Scotland... The fact that UK pass the checks doesn't imply that Scotland (with more economical difficulties) alone would pass them too. I've seen it discussed several times, though I can't see how you could reject a Scotland appliance?
Also, why would France veto a Catalonia appliance? Just in support of Spain government? Because they fear they could face a similar situation with Corsica?
(Would be fun... Catalonia is quite rich, unless I'm mistaken, but an independant Corsica would face hard times, I'd say... even if there's a lot of people supporting separatist on the island, I'm can't see how it could be a good solution for them)
It was far from dumb, the Kremlin got what it wanted right here. Rajoy was baited and took that bait hook line and sinker. So from the Kremlin's perspective this is actually a "great success!".
Remember they aren't allies of the Catalan independence movements, they just want to sow chaos. And that is exactly what they got here, total chaos.
Couldn't they just not attend, or attend and just walk away after the game started? Or would they get fined or something in addition to the 0-3 loss?
Haha well if you say so...
Seriously, if you think the EU is gonna be making a special case for anyone you haven't been paying attention to Brexit.
Harrison Bergeron
Member
I think it'd be more accurate to call these states and not necessarily nations. Nations are more about a collective, shared identity.
No I'm not saying there aren't Scottish people who don't identify with a broader UK identity or Catalonians Spanish, but that's what the debate in these secessionist movements is about. The state is a political unit nations tend to create in order to protect their culture and collectively self-determine according to their values and views.
God, that sounds condescending. I didn't mean it that way. Just adding a point to the discussion.
That's certainly my thinking as well. Why would a region with substantial autonomy want the hassle of navigating through, say, London or Madrid when it can remove that obstacle and deal directly with Brussels. The EU allows small and medium sized states to be independent sovereign nations in their own right while also enjoying the benefits of being part of a wider union. No need to create and support a separate currency, just adopt the Euro. No need to establish a costly overseas diplomatic service, there's now the EEAS.
The EU makes further independent movements more likely in the future.
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
Spanish Govt fucked themselves in the arse over this. It would have been more manageable if they let it pass.
It comes the same week as the Turks are dicking over the Kurds and the Myanmar Govt are dicking over the Rohingya.
Nice one Spain. Align yourselves unwittingly with the autocrats and radicalise a whole generation.
Fuckwits.
It comes the same week as the Turks are dicking over the Kurds and the Myanmar Govt are dicking over the Rohingya.
Nice one Spain. Align yourselves unwittingly with the autocrats and radicalise a whole generation.
Fuckwits.
ClosingADoor
Member
The EU has made it clear that it would not be a special case and they would be treated as any other country wanting to join. This idea that they would somehow get a better treatment is a fantasy. There would be no "new Spain". There would simply be Spain, but without Catalonia. Catalonia would be out of Spain, and with that also out of the EU.
We all don't know what each country will do, because there is good reason for them to remain a bit vague about it all.
But France has some independence movements themselves. Nothing really strong at the moment as far as I know, but they rather keep it that way. Pretty much any European country has a few (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe), some less serious then others of course.
Shockingly dumb behavior by the Spanish government and police. Way to actively split a country in a violent way instead of letting a fairly innocent referendum take place. Few will watch what's happening and not react with disgust, regardless of their prior views on independence. Playing all the wrong cards. Idiots.
It's not a conspiracy. Russia has supported separatist groups, right wing extremists and left wing extremists in Europe in order to sow chaos. Spain's idiot leader just fell for it big time, and is the first to completely destabilize the situation. Russia won this battle in that war, simple as that. Rajoy should have been smarter, but his fascist arse wasn't and thus he blew the whole thing up.
He is a fucking idiot Franco lover and should be called out for it.
Yeah throw joining the Euro into another Scottish referendum, see how that works out.
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