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[30yearsofhurt]

Says who?

You?

Says this goon

 

[Fdkn]

Translation please..

Spain robs from us, another poster put it right before me too.

 

[Onyar]

La Vanguardia?

Really?

Come on, man

????
Do you know what group Godo is? And whats their opinion about the independence?

 

[Tyaren]

How do Catalans see the EU and their membership? They must be aware that they'd crash out of it with their independence and that it would be very difficult, maybe even impossible if Spain chooses to block it, to get back in again.

 

[RalchAC]

Translation please..

How do Catalans see the EU and their membership? They must be aware that they'd crash out of it with their independance and that it will be very difficult, maybe even impossible if Spain chooses to block it, to get back in again.

They're totally becoming EU members. Since day one. Europe is secretly waiting for them with open arms and they won't have to go through the burocracy to become a state member at all.

 

[Nintendo's Witch]

How do Catalans see the EU and their membership? They must be aware that they'd crash out of it with their independance and that it will be very difficult, maybe even impossible if Spain chooses to block it, to get back in again.

Secessionists are telling them they'll will go straight to valhalla the day they have their independence.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

How do Catalans see the EU and their membership? They must be aware that they'd crash out of it with their independence and that it would be very difficult, maybe even impossible if Spain chooses to block it, to get back in again.

People have the right to be wrong. Let them vote for independence, let them deal with the consequences. What it's not acceptable is what is happening today.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

On this vote the YES will win by a supermajority I believe. But only because not all the NO's are going to going to vote since this is considered illegal. These last week's tour de force of the Spanish government have changed how the referendum was presented though. You could hear lots of people speaking how they decided to change from NO to YES as an act of protest against Spanish censorship.

People don't want to stay in PP, which is sadly Spain right now. Of course Catalan people don't hate Spaniards (nor the other way around I like to believe) but they are tired of being constantly treated like shit. Of course, the other side sees it as Catalans playing the victim role.

There wasn't any fear to show your views. In Barcelona you can find plenty of balconies with Esteladas (pro-independence flag) and some Spanish flags sprinkled here and there. There are heated discussions among friends but nothing more than that. The picture the Spanish government pictures is wildly different though (people that can't speak Spanish, schools adoctrinating kids to hate Spain, etc.) but as an inmigrant that arrived here 10 years ago I can tell you that is a big fat lie.

So yes, the way the Spanish gov is dealing with this is definitely creating independentists every day.

edit: watching more footage of Spanish police raiding voting schools I'm convince that today marks the point of no return. There is no way people are going to forgive the violence seen today. There is not going to be independence tomorrow but Spain has lost Catalonia forever.

While, yes, central goverment fucked up BIG TIME (and IMO they should have let them vote a LONG time ago, and the police force should have never happened), Catalonian government are not the good guys either (they are lying pieces of shit, robbers as much as shit PP and fucking crazy radicals).
My family is catalonian, ive been there nearly my whole life (30 years). Ive seen the cultural change of TV3 from just a public channel to an indoctrination piece of garbage any place should be ashamed off, and my small cousins telling me how pro independent teachers spin their classes to indoctrinate the young ones and dont let kids speak spanish. FFS my smaller cousin has his school bring for the IT classes a small portable PC to school (those bad laptops were you can only run word and the internet), and his teacher MANDATES the windows OS to be in catalan if they dont want to fail his class, and not because the lectures are in catalan and the kid will not undertand the different name of buttons, for a catalonian that also speaks spanish that is absolutely NOT a problem, its just becuase the teacher in a radical shit head, my family had to go to the school to speak with the headmaster about the problem, and the teacher called them spanish fascists to their faces and infront the headmaster, was the teacher sacked? nope, but thankfully my cousin could change of class.
And this is not an isolated case, nor the only teacher that does this stuff, so yeah, not really lies a lot of times.

This is the only thing Im going to add to this thread, becuase your "not both sides, one is worse than the other", and there "is no fear to show your views" is complete and utter bullshit. In my grandsparents town, Palafrugell, a pro independist group burned any spanish flag that was reacheable from street level from other people's balconies that had different views than them (oh, so open for democracy...). They all know who they are, the town is small enough, nothing is going to happen to them (apart from a fuck you shout), as this is normalised for all of them sadly. Nobody is burning the Estelada that hangs in the roundabout at the entrance of the town put there by the city hall, even if its illegal for it to be there.

If you havent experience it, good for you, but it exists.

And as I say at the top of my post, I would have let them vote in a heart beat a long time ago.

 

[Ferr986]

People have the right to be wrong. Let them vote for independence, let them deal with the consequences. What it's not acceptable is what is happening today.

To be fair, Im catalan and I dont want to deal with those consequences. Not my fault some indepes are dumb and follow catalan gov lies like sheeps.

(Not agreeing with this police violence, PP should fuck off).

 

[Javier23]

How do Catalans see the EU and their membership? They must be aware that they'd crash out of it with their independance and that it will be very difficult, maybe even impossible if Spain chooses to block it, to get back in again.

Most of my nationalist friends aren't really factoring in that kind of practical considerations. It's a purely emotional issue, even when it's obvious at least to me that becoming independent is gonna wreck their short-term plans to study and work elsewhere in the EU. Their families are all also pretty well off. Haven't really thought much about how it would annihilate their income. I find it somewhat understandable but I can't help but think that me myself in that situation and not feeling Spanish at all but being the most Catalonian of all I still would personally care more about those close to me. I come from a big working class family in a much more humble environment in an impoverished region of Spain that has seen much belittling from Catalonia for supposedly not contributing as much to the national economy and I've had to work my ass off to get where I am.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

He's the one that posted a very accurate comparison. The moment he was shat on without any specific arguments, he asked for them. I'd say he's doing more than enough.

lol yeah right. His responses are childish.

 

[Metroxed]

Belgian PM:

@CharlesMichel: Violence can never be the answer! We condemn all forms of violence and reaffirm our call for political dialogue #CatalanReferendum #Spain

https://twitter.com/CharlesMichel/status/914455311553040384

Tension between the Catalan police and the Spanish Guardia Civil:

https://twitter.com/CBalear/status/914461721875685376

 

[Tiamant]

337 injured so far

http://www.ccma.cat/324/38-ferits-p...a-policia-espanyola-per-l1-o/noticia/2812108/

Democracy at its best!

 

[Javier23]

337 injured so far

http://www.ccma.cat/324/38-ferits-p...a-policia-espanyola-per-l1-o/noticia/2812108/

Democracy at its best!

TV3, lmao, yeah, try again next time.

 

[Vanpastel]

https://twitter.com/CBalear/status/914461721875685376 Confrontation now between Spanish and Catalonian police forces

 

[nekkid]

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish PM) has spoken about the events happening now:

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/914434753423708160

Of course she has.

 

[llehuty]

Getting hit for voting in a democratic country... So embarrased of my country and its complete misshandling of this.

So I guess we are only allowed to express our opinions (not really) only and exclusively once ever four years?

 

[nitronite]

TV3, lmao, yeah, try again next time.

Would you say that it's Fake News by any chance?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I just voted, ppl clapping and crying after voting. I almost cried when I saw a very old man crying and saying "I always wanted to be able to do this vote, and finally I did it before dying"

 

[Tiamant]

TV3, lmao, yeah, try again next time.

Have you even bothered to read? They are reporting numbers from Catsalut, the same other agencies started reporting this morning when the number was 38.

 

[KingSnake]

I just voted, ppl clapping and crying after voting. I almost cried when I saw a very old man crying and saying "I always wanted to be able to do this vote, and finally I did it before dying"

This is sad on so many levels. Cynical politicians playing with people's emotions.

 

[Javier23]

Would you say that it's Fake News by any chance?

Have you even bothered to read? They are reporting numbers from Catsalut, the same other agencies started reporting this morning when the number was 38.

No, I didn't bother to read. Not disputing the numbers or the data. I don't know about that. If true it's just horrific and despicable. But I'm just not gonna bother clicking on links of certain very biased outlets when it comes to such loaded matters.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This is sad on so many levels. Cynical politicians playing with people's emotions.

I think he knew it was more of a symbolic act, that something with a real effect. He was just glad he could do it.

He lived during Franco era, he knows what is having a censorship on what he truly believe his national identity.

Ppl need to realize that independentism is rooted in our society from a very long time.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Of course she has.

Why shouldn't she?
Every EU leader should be commenting on it.

 

[His Majesty]

Of course she has.

I hope every self respecting democracy in the world follows with a condemnation of the aggression and violence perpetrated by the Spanish government today.

 

[llehuty]

Reports that tonight's Barça - Las Palmas football match has been cancelled. Probably a good call with the current state of things...

 

[Metroxed]

Jeremy Corbyn (Labour Party, UK):

@jeremycorbyn
Police violence against citizens in #Catalonia is shocking. The Spanish government must act to end it now.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/914468254986448899

 

[Uzzy]

Looks like Barca aren't going to play today's match against Las Palmas, presumably in protest against what's going on.

 

[Business]

TV3, lmao, yeah, try again next time.

Have you seen the videos going around, some of them posted in this very thread?

There’s people with serious injuries, a man will probably lose an eye.

 

[shiyrley]

Has this been posted?

Look what they need to do so that the police can't take away the urns.

 

[KingSnake]

Looks like Barca aren't going to play today's match against Las Palmas, presumably in protest against what's going on.

Do they lose the game 0-3 if that's the case?

 

[Orbis]

Do they lose the game 0-3 if that's the case?

Unless it was officially agreed to postpone for safety reasons, I guess so.

 

[Uzzy]

Do they lose the game 0-3 if that's the case?

Looks that way. I think that had the Catalan Police advised the suspension on security grounds, that wouldn't be the case, but they haven't, so Barca have asked for it to be suspended, meaning they'll lose the game 0-3.

 

[legacyzero]

Holy shit, this is hitting my Twitter feed HARD. And I'm just now finding out about this. Somebody give me a bullet point TLDR? I'd like to know more about it.

 

[His Majesty]

An example of why Catalonia wants more autonomy.

One year ago: Spanish court overturns Catalonia bullfighting ban.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espa...ter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ECFDManual


Guardias Civiles being assaulted and being throwed stones.

Such democrats!

 

[Javier23]

Have you seen the videos going around, some of them posted in this very thread?

There’s people with serious injuries, a man will probably lose an eye.

I have seen them. I don't know why you think I am denying that people are getting beaten and hurt, very possibly brutally so.

 

[Pluto]

Has this been posted?

Look what they need to do so that the police can't take away the urns.

As if that weak ass chain is going to stop someone. Alternatively they could just cut open the urn (aka plastic box) and take everything out.

But what's the point? It's very likely that in a few days Catalonia will no longer have a government or parliament.

 

[Monty Mole]

I can't believe what I'm seeing. I thought better of Spain.

I didn't agree with the Brexit result, but I'm still proud to live in a democratic nation.

 

[Lagamorph]

They're totally becoming EU members. Since day one. Europe is secretly waiting for them with open arms and they won't have to go through the burocracy to become a state member at all.

Bullshit. Catalonia will have to go through the full joining process the same as anyone else. There are plenty of countries already waiting to join that would cry foul if Catalonia was given special treatment and exemptions to bypass the queue and entry requirements.
Will Catalonia re-join the EU eventually? Most likely, but it'll be 3-4 years at a minimum, and that's assuming that they can meet all of the criteria right out of the gate.

 

[locke_21183]

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish PM) has spoken about the events happening now:

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/914434753423708160

She wishes she were Scottish PM

 

[KingSnake]

Bullshit. Catalonia will have to go through the full joining process the same as anyone else. There are plenty of countries already waiting to join that would cry foul if Catalonia was given special treatment and exemptions to bypass the queue and entry requirements.

I'm pretty sure that the post was sarcastic. But I can see how it was not obvious given that this is practically the false theory that the supporters of independence throw around.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Amazing how stupid that arsehole Rajoy is.
If they do nothing and the vote is no, then there's nothing to do. If the vote is yes then establish dialogue.
This despicable behaviour will convert many, many people to being pro independence, a complete and utter shitshow.
The spirit of Franco is alive and well

 

[pa22word]

Bullshit. Catalonia will have to go through the full joining process the same as anyone else. There are plenty of countries already waiting to join that would cry foul if Catalonia was given special treatment and exemptions to bypass the queue and entry requirements.
Will Catalonia re-join the EU eventually? Most likely, but it'll be 3-4 years at a minimum, and that's assuming that they can meet all of the criteria right out of the gate.

Pretty sure that was sarcasm man.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Bullshit. Catalonia will have to go through the full joining process the same as anyone else. There are plenty of countries already waiting to join that would cry foul if Catalonia was given special treatment and exemptions to bypass the queue and entry requirements.
Will Catalonia re-join the EU eventually? Most likely, but it'll be 3-4 years at a minimum, and that's assuming that they can meet all of the criteria right out of the gate.

You are responding to a sarcastic post saying what pro-independence people think.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Bullshit. Catalonia will have to go through the full joining process the same as anyone else. There are plenty of countries already waiting to join that would cry foul if Catalonia was given special treatment and exemptions to bypass the queue and entry requirements.
Will Catalonia re-join the EU eventually? Most likely, but it'll be 3-4 years at a minimum, and that's assuming that they can meet all of the criteria right out of the gate.

Just as with Scotland, that's never been clear. Catalans are EU citizens, those in the queue are not.

 

[psychowave]

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espa...ter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ECFDManual


Guardias Civiles being assaulted and being throwed stones.

Such democrats!

Do you expect people to just sit there and let the police beat them? Those guys are wearing riot gear. They'll be fine.

 

[Dierce]

I can't believe what I'm seeing. I thought better of Spain.

I didn't agree with the Brexit result, but I'm still proud to live in a democratic nation.

PP is fascist, corrupt and stupid. I disagree with secessionists but they have a right to choose. The federal government should have made a binding agreement requiring 2/3 of the vote for independence and made it clear that it would lead to an immediate annulment of Spanish citizenship and all the benefits that come from it.

If they did that the secessionists, who are in the minority would be overwhelmed by those who want to remain. As things stand now their numbers will only grow.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Just as with Scotland, that's never been clear. Catalans are EU citizens, those in the queue are not.

It is 100% clear. The EU has always said these countries need to go through the regular process. Catalonia, or any other region that splits off into its own country, will need to join the EU through the process all the other countries have to take.

The only difference might be some speed, since a lot of regulations already line up.

 

[KingSnake]

Just as with Scotland, that's never been clear. Catalans are EU citizens, those in the queue are not.

Only on individual level and only if they retain the Spanish citizenship. The Catalans who are Spanish citizens are EU citizens, Catalonia as an independent country is not an EU member.