ecosse_011172
Junior Member
I think the media will step up their game, we'll see, won't be for a while.
I can't imagine a government much worse than May's but Rajoy has managed to be a lot more hateable .
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Catalonia to split from Spain within 48 hours of secession vote
- Thread starter LordOfLore
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I think the media will step up their game, we'll see, won't be for a while.
I can't imagine a government much worse than May's but Rajoy has managed to be a lot more hateable .
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
Non violent protest is not anarchy
Liar.
We dont feel superior, we never did.
The Spanish constitution was already violated by Pp itself. Also democracy should never under the law. What we are living in Catalonia is repression by a facist state.
False, 80% of Catalonians wants to vote.
More videos:
https://twitter.com/gonzalocortizo/status/914426218874843139
https://twitter.com/HistoricalPics/status/914492012728070145
https://twitter.com/Jaumeasens/status/914409436944453632
https://twitter.com/HistoricalPics/status/914493054551252992
https://twitter.com/agarzon/status/914395358981222400
https://twitter.com/HistoricalPics/status/914493054551252992
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLCOW8YWsAEgdBX.jpg:large
This is the answer of the spanish government against people who ONLY wants to vote. Against normal people of all ages, women, elders... Spain is not anymore a democracy.
Tempus fugit
Banned
Valle de Aran is a really small region, are you going to allow Barcelona, the capital of Catalonia, to stay within Spain??
Because, you know, most people in Barcelona dont want independece according to polls.
Or, basically no major catalan city besides Girona wants independence, is more of a rural thing.
By your logic, stealing 1 dollar and murdering a man are equivalent because they're both against the law.
Wafflecakes
Member
I am personally fine with an independence vote.
...but the measure for independence should not be 50%, it should be 60 or 2/3. Also, sub regions should be able to vote to stay.
As I understand it they are significant areas of Catalonia that don't want to succeed. How is it any less tyrannical to force them out of Spain than what the Spanish government is doing to suppress this vote?
30yearsofhurt
Member
Wasn't PP founded by Francoists?
The taxes is what I was in about. Catalan should have the right to vote for independence it is as simple as that. Do it legally and see what happens.
Don't call me boyo, it's a racist term. You are the dude who seems to be against Catalans so badly.
Tempus fugit
Banned
They are not equivalent, but they both should be punishable by the law, as they are.
jakonovski
Member
The logical end point is for a few people here to come out as sovereign citizens.
It was known beforehand what would happen. It's not the victim's fault, I feel for all the people who are injured in this. But the organizers, the pro-independence politicians knew that this would happen.
They also knew that such violent acts would increase support for Catalan independence not only regionally but worldwide.
Yes, PP started as Alianza Popular (Popular Alliance), founded by former Francoist authorities.
KonradLaw
Member
The problem is there's no way to do it legally unfortunatelly. So it's going to be a shit storm either way.
Its funny the illegal argument. People against referendum is using it as a shield but at the same time are choosing a goverment that is known because they dont care about legality and has been punished already.
Catalan people doesn't feel superior btw, only different to the rest of Spain.
Tempus fugit
Banned
My mother is catalan, you know. Half my family is, and also my girlfriend.
Im against a civil conflict enforced by a nationalistic movement, you know, the same nationalism thah killed millions in the XXth century.
This is a slipperly slope.
If the referendum was meaningless from the start, Spain should have sat back and let the Catalans have their little democracy play moment and nothing would change, but what did they do? They rolled an army of police into town that were dressed up like they belonged in the bomb squad and violently confiscated ballot boxes and beat anyone who resisted. What are they trying to hide?
I just rebutted the exact scenario you described. Stop moving goalposts when it's more than evident you don't like catalans very much.
ferrasvansen
Member
Thankfully paper media is being replaced in the hearts and minds of the young by tv and social media. Theresa May is a monster in my eyes, and those voting for her are complicit in the brutality shown vs the disabled here in the last 5 years. I hate to think what the likes of Rees Mogg would do.
Wafflecakes
Member
Different as in less poors.
You can pretend that isn't a factor, but there is a reason why Catalonia started pushing for a referendum in this age after a major financial crisis in their country, and not when times were good.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
https://twitter.com/alexandrecamps/status/914513744268529664
They broke her three fingers, one by one.
They broke her three fingers, one by one.
Civil conflict was the police beating down voters. I believe any region, you notice I don't just say Catalonia should have the right to be independent.
So being fed up with corrupt governance isn't a noble cause for secession?
Tempus fugit
Banned
Lol.
Rebutt it again, I dind't read it.
Oh, the independence decision is going to be city by city, region by region, town by town???
Where's the limit exactly, my fellow Spanish?
Wrestlemania
Banned
She won't be doing any more illegal votes now! Great job.
Indeed, PP are the political heirs of dictator Franco.
This is one of the main reasons Catalans (republican majority) wants to vote, since in spain PP has the majority of votes.
Wafflecakes
Member
Stop supporting the tyranny of a slim majority trying to force regions of Catalonia who don't want to succeed to come with them.
jakonovski
Member
I'll say I'm sorry when the Catalan Hitler invades the world, but for now I'm content in saying you're talking nonsense.
Wafflecakes
Member
So abandoning your countrymen to a "corrupt" government is a noble cause now?
If they keep voting for them, let them lie in their beds? What else are they meant to do?
By the constitution of Spain, it is not legal. The awkward moment comes when Catalonia rejects their obligation to the constitution and attempts a democratic vote on their obligation, only to be forcibly prevented from doing so, like they're some naughty puppy that is having their noses rubbed in the piss on the carpet
Relaxed Muscle
Member
If 6 million of people do a voting, all 6 million of people should accept the result.
That's how democracy works.
Same as brexit, same as other many democratic votes around the world.
Tempus fugit
Banned
Yeah, sure, typical Spanish mafia.
Actual footage of that would be nice, though.
I will burn in hell before voting to PP, for everybody that's saying that's either PP or separatism; there are many other big political groups in Spain; PSOE has ruled the country the more years since democracy.
gutter_trash
Banned
Rajoy makes David Cameron look like a democracy Jesus.
Going hard-line created the opposite intended reaction
Cameron just asked for a clearer question than the first subjective one and agreed to the terms. And Scotland voted without a bar fight.
Rajoy? Totally used the worst play from the playbook now has turned Madrid into the villains
Going hard-line created the opposite intended reaction
Cameron just asked for a clearer question than the first subjective one and agreed to the terms. And Scotland voted without a bar fight.
Rajoy? Totally used the worst play from the playbook now has turned Madrid into the villains
Wafflecakes
Member
Not all decisions should be able to be made with a 50.00000001% majority.
Tempus fugit
Banned
The supreme court in Spain said it was illegal.
Also, the UN declaration only allows secession movements in collonies, which Catalonia is obviously not.
Should be 52%
And yet that's how democratic majority has worked since the time of the Greeks
Spanish left-wing is supporting the referendum and critizing repression.
jakonovski
Member
Wafflecakes
Member
Of course there is corruption in the Spanish government. However, it is far from an exceptional amount
The "corruption" line is a just a smokescreen to hide that many just don't want to pay for poor people, no matter how much you pretend otherwise. As I said previously, the timing of this movement speaks volumes.
Worldwide corruption index:
democracy, how does it work?
If we look at the last election results that doesnt look much of an issue:
But anyway, feel free to keep moving the goalposts. By the way you speak it's obvious you are either a troll or someone with lots of hate in its life.
That is not feeling superior anyways.
Worldwide corruption index:
America isn't dark orange, so hardly an accurate map
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
Questions of legality are where we have transitioned from democracy to bureaucracy.
Everyone has the right to a vote. Thats Democracy. The state doesnt have a monopoly on individual voices. Whether that vote counts is a different story. But you should have the right to express your view by way of vote. I mean, you can vote for your favourite fucking pop star on X factor, but you get beaten for expressing a voice.
In my view, if you are told you cant vote before, and beaten up for trying to vote, then I know where the illegality lies here.
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