spindoctor
Member
This one in particular was horrifying to see. Such a sad state of affairs.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Catalonia to split from Spain within 48 hours of secession vote
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
- Status
This one in particular was horrifying to see. Such a sad state of affairs.
Wafflecakes
Member
No, it really hasn't.
Plenty of Constitutions require more than a 50% majority to amend. Hell, the US requires approval from 3/4th of states (which imo is too high).
If 50% is your threshold then EVERY sub-region should vote as well and should be able to stay if more than 50% want to. However, the movement is too cowardly to let Barcelona say whether it wants to stay or go.
You might want to actually research your stuff, because anarchy isn't "ignoring every law"
Wafflecakes
Member
Lie to yourself all you want to justify your reasoning.
America has a shitton of problems. Widespread corruption hasn't been among the biggest problems as of yet, though Trump is working hard to change that.
Wafflecakes
Member
Nice strawman since the orange areas just happen to be the most densely populated.
Tempus fugit
Banned
A coalition of all secessionist movements against dozens of different unionist movements is obviously going to be the most voted party (which doesn't imply that secessionist is majority there) You know perfectly that most big cities in Catalonia dont have a secessionist majority, and that the secessionist movement only received 48% of votes in last elections, against 52% of the unionist; what you're doing is called agitprop.
I have no hate, I dont want to be separated from part of my family, my friends, I think that in today's world we should unite to be stronger, not separate; make bridges, not build new walls and borders.
And_Gignac
Member
Podemos is half way there supporting but not just so much to avoid pissing off spaniards. The AntiCapitalistas faction of Podemos is full on supporting the referendum since always.
I hate to break it to you, but Globalism hasn't exactly been that popular lately
Tempus fugit
Banned
Yeah, I dont care what's popular or which kind of Orange buffon there's in Washington right now (which also happen to like borders).
Verhofstadt posted a statement:
https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/914524846670958600/
Nothing from the EU itself yet, though. I suspect they'll put something out Monday.
https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/914524846670958600/
Nothing from the EU itself yet, though. I suspect they'll put something out Monday.
This is such a great opportunity for Spanish left organizations to expose the brutality of liberalism and I feel like they're really dropping the ball.
Spanish police aren't beating Catalonians because Spaniards are inherently mean, but because the interests of the Spanish bourgeoisie are threatened by this movement. You can bet your ass that if independence happens, agents of the Catalonian state will behave just as brutally if Catalonian bourgeois interests are similarly threatened.
Classic "both sides" statement if ever I've seen one
Barajas_201
Member
Just woke up and seeing on Twitter all the repression in a supposedly first world country is shameful. Even in the Venezuelan "dictatorship" the opposition is allowed to vote, but Spain? Nah amigo, te jodes. Spain showing their true fascist origin.
That's odd, last time I checked the pro-independence parties had more votes than the unionists and everything hanged on CatSíqueesPot, which were pro-referendum without a particular stance.
If only we could celebrate a referendum to know what society thinks nowadays...
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Very disappointing and weak from a politician that I have plenty of respect for.
jakonovski
Member
A cop out from Verhofstadt. Also the bizarre notion that being against an issue correlates directly to being against a vote on said issue. I'm staunchly anti-Nato but I don't see an issue with doing a referendum on it in Finland.
O__O
Considering how passively militant Russia have been lately, I would advise revisiting that view.
Yes, they got to vote for their parliament, which was then promptly stripped of all its powers. They also had their recall referendum denied. Not much free voting there either.
So Spain following in the footsteps of Venezuela, gee that's comforting for Europe
I should have clarified, my question was supposed to be sarcastic since any debate about the referendum just seems to circle back to "the referendum is illegal" as if that argument shuts the entire issue down.
If the Spanish government and constitution refuse any flexibility whatsoever, refuse to engage and there is literally no legal avenue to independence at all then not only is that incredibly stupid, but this is the only available route for the regional government to take. In that context, the legality of the referendum and this particular route to independence is irrelevant, so just saying "it's illegal" is completely meaningless.
If the Spanish government and constitution refuse any flexibility whatsoever, refuse to engage and there is literally no legal avenue to independence at all then not only is that incredibly stupid, but this is the only available route for the regional government to take. In that context, the legality of the referendum and this particular route to independence is irrelevant, so just saying "it's illegal" is completely meaningless.
NATO is an imperialist org through-and-through that exists to secure the dominance of the US and Western Europe over the rest of the world. We can criticize Russian aggression while also recognizing that NATO is a chauvinistic and repressive institution.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Ugh what a mess 
jakonovski
Member
Uhh, this is maybe not the thread for that?
Duplicated votes are FAKE news.
https://twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/status/914526879582998528
https://twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/status/914526879582998528
ferrasvansen
Member
Sad indeed, it's not surprise that faith in the EU and such institutions is falling when you see such an awful statement. Picking random numbers, making assumptions the replies in twitter even from non Catalonian Spanish people says it all.
Tempus fugit
Banned
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Faith in the EU isn't falling, only in the imagination of idiot Brexiteers.
I would avoid using this comparison - while it's shameful that Catalonia hasn't been given a referendum and the Spanish government is violently repressing dissent, Spain isn't run by a President you can't remove from power.
Anyways this is distracting from the topic at hand - the police need to be disciplined once the vote ends.
Barajas_201
Member
Yeah.
Yeah sure, mi amigo.
That's an outdated map by today amigo.
ferrasvansen
Member
I'm not a brexiteer, I voted to remain.
Wafflecakes
Member
As I said, produce evidence to the contrary.
So many cowards willing to shit on evidence while providing none of their own.
Transparency International is a well respected non-profit and calling them wrong just because it doesn't fit your own personal narrative is the height of pathetic. Trump-like in fact.
Not yet anyway. I'm pretty sure the Turks considered Erdogan the same at one stage or another, but you're right that it's a distraction
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
In my view, the metropolitan elite and liberals in any country arent there yet. They like to consume radicalism (ie watch a documentary about black lives matter or the financial collapse or Palestine or any other cause and feel sad, or post a tweet about how sad they are about global affairs). but they wont give a shit until their own interests are threatened. We consume sympathy and anger. Its something to be observed and commented upon, because it makes the person seem more empathic or knowledgeable. But it isnt acted on. Because that would require real effort. If you arent affected personally, you dont give a shit, other than commenting about it on Facebook.
Thats the real curse of contemporary capitalism. Even radicalism and brutality is a consumer choice. A spectacle to be consumed.
Tempus fugit
Banned
B-b-but if there's no way I can decide to make my house an independent state, why should I follow those stupid basic laws and the UN declaration? fuck rule of law.
Oh, and there are legal ways, in which all the Spanish people decide about their country.
Anyway my fellow americans have some experience with secessionist movements, am I wrong?
Right, which is why I think this current crisis in Catalonia could really go two ways.
- Catalan becomes independent, and radical anarchist and communist trends within their politics create the most radical state in Western Europe. Spaniards, no longer benefiting from stolen Catalonian wealth, become more critical of capitalism and many demand a more humane alternative.
- Catalan becomes independent, and snooty chauvinists like Jordi Pujol determine the course of the nation. Left-wing groups in Catalonia lose their thunder. Meanwhile, Spaniards become more angry and revanchist and elect an authoritarian right-wing government which spends decades threatening to reconquer its lost eastern provinces.
I think Spain's behaving a lot worse than Venezuela, because the Spanish opposition isn't burning down hospitals or murdering their opponents!
Wafflecakes
Member
Then step up to the plate and provide an updated one.
Tempus fugit
Banned
Relaxed Muscle
Member
This is wrong, Spanish are beating Catalonians, because of their unionist repressive ideas that survived during our fascist era. And well, since basically forever.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
My apologies. All recent EU pools have been going up, not down.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
2016 amiguito.
Looks like Spain must be updated in 2017!
Tempus fugit
Banned
Oh, good old democracy, take that Spanish people and Constitution!!!!!11!!
Not that it matters anyway--it's pretty clear what the outcome is going to be already.
Wafflecakes
Member
Ah. When the evidence proves you wrong, ignore the evidence!
Channeling your inner Donald?
Barajas_201
Member
So in your fantasy land, today is not happening right?
ferrasvansen
Member
Yeah was thinking more here amongst my social group, we all voted remain but my younger friends, family really don't have much faith in EU, NATO and UN things like that. As for me I was just a bit annoyed at EU lack of speaking out over violence, I've pretty much calmed down but those twitter replies really surprise me given how many are non Spanish. No need for apologies my earlier statement led you to believe I was anti EU I was just angry at the silence.
Oh, good old democracy, take that Spanish people and Constitution!!!!!11!!
And all this shit wouldn't happen if they were allowed a legal vote
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Oh, good old democracy, take that Spanish people and Constitution!!!!!11!!
Several times I went and voted in my life I saw parents letting their children put the vote inside the ballot...so, what?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
So if a military junta took over Brazil in 2017, you would post a map of 2016 to show it's a democracy?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked