Thank God, get that dingus out of there.
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Catalonia to split from Spain within 48 hours of secession vote
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
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Thank God, get that dingus out of there.
Wafflecakes
Member
I agree that this would have been a far better path.
This whole turn of events has been frankly terrifying. The EU and UN silence is really off-putting. Considering they respect the right to self determination they should do something to prevent violence from happening. It's simply people trying to vote. But I guess they are deeply scared that if another vote like this pass that the Europe will be in trouble. So let's beat people up and scare them so they don't vote right.
Barajas_201
Member
The right to self determination of the people overwrites the law you shield yourself around. Sorry amigo, you're on the wrong side of history, on the fascist side of history to be precise.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Dude, we had 40 years of a dictatorship with a strong repression on Catalonia language and culture. You could be arrested for speaking Catalan.
Unionism in this country has been one of their trademarks since centuries...
The fuck you are talking about?
Tempus fugit
Banned
Well if I wanted to push the fact that this is a charade I could have put this image again
Or this
Or...
I think you get my point
As someone from Northern Ireland who considers it part of the UK, the idea of a paramilitary force attempting to stop a referendum vote in my country is horrifying. Regardless of the referendums "legitimacy"
It's like Holocaust denial, the brand is tainted so gotta downplay it until a new one comes along
Business
Member
Saw the video of her injured hand earlier where she said they broke her fingers, one by one, intentionally. I'm glad somebody could actually film how it happened. Fucking animals.
Yeah sure, both sides eh?
Ether_Snake
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Well if I wanted to push the fact that this is a charade I could have put this image again
Or this
Or...
I think you get my point
Your point being that the referendum has been stopped by the police, so any of those images are entirely irrelevant.
badcrumble
Member
"look, if she was doing anything illegal, that's okay"
psychowave
Member
Well if I wanted to push the fact that this is a charade I could have put this image again
Or this
Or...
I think you get my point
There are pictures and videos of cops kicking and dragging people around and this is what you care about. Disgusting.
My French is not what it used to be and I'm not 100% confident on Google Translate but I think this means British observers are going to put a complain on the International Penal Court?
http://www.liberation.fr/planete/20...nols-et-catalans_1600074#link_time=1506870701
http://www.liberation.fr/planete/20...nols-et-catalans_1600074#link_time=1506870701
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Surely the Madrid government can see this approach is only gonna further exacerbate the nationalist sentyeah they are not thinking that far are they
Source?
Tempus fugit
Banned
"There are cops kicking people and you are only worried about the guarantees of a referendum that's supposed to affect millions more"
Which by the way is false I have the extraordinary ability to be worried about both things and find both things disgusting stop victimism when you dont have arguments
Relaxed Muscle
Member
They are only thinking on the votes they will get on the rest of spain.
User123456
Member
At first I sided with the police/spanish govt because I have family and friends who either serve or have served in these forces. I just didn't, couldn't believe that people who serve would be capable of this even if given the order. But after speaking to many friends who went to vote here in Barcelona, I can no longer support the current Spanish government.
I heard many, many first hand accounts from people I've known for long who have seen unprovoked violence in front of them and some who have suffered it themselves. I insist, unprovoked violence. In case any of you had doubts even after seeing the pics and videos... Yeah, it's real.
I'm sorry but this is fucking horrifying and shameful. It has no place in a democratic, western first world nation. I expect some sort of international sanction. If the EU does nothing in response that'll be fucking shameful as well. Those of you who think this event has made thousands of fence-sitters lean in favor of independence, you're right.
I heard many, many first hand accounts from people I've known for long who have seen unprovoked violence in front of them and some who have suffered it themselves. I insist, unprovoked violence. In case any of you had doubts even after seeing the pics and videos... Yeah, it's real.
I'm sorry but this is fucking horrifying and shameful. It has no place in a democratic, western first world nation. I expect some sort of international sanction. If the EU does nothing in response that'll be fucking shameful as well. Those of you who think this event has made thousands of fence-sitters lean in favor of independence, you're right.
That's what it says, yes.
I removed it, saw it posted on Euro reddit but I couldn't find a source there either after I went looking. Guess we wait.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZtryXjDB1C/
This is Plaza del Sol in Madrid right now, Republicans+Basque+Support for Cataluña.
I see Rajoy getting impeached. There's lots of riot police, mainly containing a small group of fascists on the other side. All is peaceful for now.
This is Plaza del Sol in Madrid right now, Republicans+Basque+Support for Cataluña.
I see Rajoy getting impeached. There's lots of riot police, mainly containing a small group of fascists on the other side. All is peaceful for now.
Business
Member
Thats sadly the general tone on Spanish newspapers comments. Unbelieveable.
Oh, on the videos I've watched it's all been completely unprovoked. Actually very distressing to watch such behaviour by police in Europe
psychowave
Member
"There are cops kicking people and you are only worried about the guarantees of a referendum that's supposed to affect millions more"
Which by the way is false I have the extraordinary ability to be worried about both things and find both things disgusting stop victimism when you dont have arguments
Everyone knows the referendum is useless. It doesn't matter if people vote twice or whatever because it wasn't valid in the first place and the result barely matters. You've been posting about the validity of the referendum all thread long so yeah, I think you don't care much about the government-approved police violence against the citizens of Catalonia.
Also I'm not "victimism" as I'm not even Catalonian, lmao.
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
I would have gone with the images of police hitting other police, firemen, old people, women, breaking fingers, hitting the injured, and then adding the label Democracia. I think that would have captured it better.
If we had an independence vote for Flanders and Brussels cracked down like this I'd vote for independence and I don't even want an independent Flanders.
deathkiller
Member
If they didn't do that before they won't do it right now, now if there is an independence declaration then it is likely that the a155 will be triggered.
Now the question is, are the catalonians angry enough to try open rebellion against the state? The only other way for independence would be convincing PSOE to try to change the constitution to make it legal. In the past that would had been impossible but right now it might be.
Kiraly
Member
Saw tens of people with Spanish flags draped across their back walk towards Sol five minutes ago on my walk home, it could turn ugly. This referendum is an awful situation all around.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Nothing really to add that what is happening is terrible and my heart goes out to the people of Catalonia. The right to self-determination is fundamental.
You're looking at the dumpster fire that is Brexit and thinking, yeah this is a good idea?
Brexit is a prime example of why direct referenda on issues of such constitutional magnitude require supermajorities so the decision and "will of the people" argument is beyond any reasonable doubt.
It's very clear that the majority of Catalan's aren't fucking cretins who would vote to make themselves poorer, otherwise a supermajority would have existed long ago.
Unfortunately Rajoy's dipshit response to all of this is likely to fuel an emotional blowback which will just fuck up Catalonia for a long time.
"There are cops kicking people and you are only worried about the guarantees of a referendum that's supposed to affect millions more"
Which by the way is false I have the extraordinary ability to be worried about both things and find both things disgusting stop victimism when you dont have arguments
The only fucking reason there is no resources to guarantee legitimacy of the votes is because of Spain's supression to begin with. How dense are you?
Tempus fugit
Banned
I can repeat the same message I posted to the other user but I hope you understand that both things can be treated separately and that trying to avoid talking abouth either of them using the other as a smoke courtain is quite stupid.
Unless you can only focus in a single topic, which is kind of sad.
psychowave
Member
This has been pointed out to him in this thread before but he conveniently chooses to ignore that too.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
Lol they were making a human train and I heard someone say "They're making the Spanish Human Centipede"
Tempus fugit
Banned
You can tell me that when even knowing that it lacks legitimacy the secessionist movement declares unilaterally the independence using the result of the referendum and are subsequently reduced by the Spanish State.
You're basically giving your support to an antiglobalisation nationalistic and xenophobic movement thats going to cause a civil war in my country (and revive a nationalistic Spanish movement that has been dead since Franco)
Im sure you love the Confederation secessionist movement also.
It's hard to organize a legitimate vote (legitimate in the sense of getting any substantial representation) when your vote is actively being criminalized. I'd take the results of today with a truckload of salt... The Spanish government probably should have been more open to the vote, not accepting its results, but trying to negotiate with the Catalan government for that bit of more self government. But I realize that also could lead to more "spanish" independence movements.
While some would argue that the vote is about Catalonia having it own culture, it's hard to not see some (a lot) of economic reasoning by the instigators of the vote. Wether or not you agree with those sentiments should have been proven today, but it's hard to see the Spanish government, turning this already volatile vote in a total shitstorm.
To be totally clear, I'm not that well versed in Spanish politics.
While some would argue that the vote is about Catalonia having it own culture, it's hard to not see some (a lot) of economic reasoning by the instigators of the vote. Wether or not you agree with those sentiments should have been proven today, but it's hard to see the Spanish government, turning this already volatile vote in a total shitstorm.
To be totally clear, I'm not that well versed in Spanish politics.
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
Its fine mate. By prioritising one aet of images and a narrative over another, in the limited time you get to comment on affairs/suffering, you clearly set out what is more important for you.
Ether_Snake
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The US became independent for economic reasons first. That's irrelevant. People have a right to vote. The government can then chose not to recognize the result, negotiate, whatever.
Tempus fugit
Banned
There are quite a few people posting images of police brutality, and as far as I have seen only me posting pictures of irregularities.
how much more can you lie? I'm pretty amazed by your posts.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Edit: not touching this
Oh I'm not arguing against that, but I've seen multiple posters argue against the relevance of a more self contained economic stature in regards to this vote claiming it's about culture foremost. I don't think that is fair,but still with the caveat that I'm not following Spanish politics to the tee.
I'd totally agree with you that the Spanish government should have allowed the vote, then see what it should do with it.
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