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[Wickerbasket]

There are quite a few people posting images of police brutality, and as far as I have seen only me posting pictures of irregularities.

I think that's because one is more outrageous than the other.

It's not surprising that there are voting irregularities considering the effort the Spanish government have went through to suppress the vote. It was in their interest to make the vote look illegitimate, so they closed down the avenues to authenticate votes.

What is surprising is the unprovoked violence from the Spanish police, especially against other police.

 

[Tempus fugit]

The US became independent for economic reasons first. That's irrelevant. People have a right to vote. The government can then chose not to recognize the result, negotiate, whatever.

The US was a fucking colony.

Jesus Christ, the manipulation is unbearable.

 

[PdotMichael]

Why is the EU so quiet about all this violence? If this was happening in Russia they would be falling over themselves to condemn it. Just goes to show how toxic politics can be regardless of where it is in the world.

EU rates this referendum as not legally binding, the same way the Crimea nonsense wasn't legally binding.
There isn't anything to discuss.

 

[trembli0s]

how much more can you lie? I'm pretty amazed by your posts.

He's entirely right. This will make Spain poorer, jettison the one place in the country that really makes PP weak in Spain, and foment nationalism in the rest of the country.

It will also bankrupt Catalonia in the long run when the EU cuts off access to the single market and they can no longer trade in Spain without customs/tariffs involved. That's to say nothing of the Spanish multinats who want nothing to do with another Brexit situation in Barcelona.

 

[Kiraly]

20:15 CET Public address by Prime Minister Rajoy

New page.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Why is the EU so quiet about all this violence? If this was happening in Russia they would be falling over themselves to condemn it. Just goes to show how toxic politics can be regardless of where it is in the world.

Yep, I'm massively disappointed in them.

 

[jakonovski]

EU rates this referendum as not legally binding, the same way the Crimea nonsense wasn't legally binding.
There isn't anything to discuss.

Brutal violence is something to discuss.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Edit: not touching this with a 10 foot pole

 

[DukeLongfellow]

Watching our local Newshour.

The reporter is currently in a public building, one of the last where the referendum is taking place. The police are going to attempt to get in but they are blocked by a wall of Catalan firemen.

 

[Nekster]

He's entirely right. This will make Spain poorer, jettison the one place in the country that really makes PP weak in Spain, and foment nationalism in the rest of the country.

No, he said the people who wants to vote and to vote YES is a xenophobic movement. Disgusting. And if you think he is right about that then you obvioulsy know nothing about it.

https://twitter.com/Elba_Celo/status/914535066927292417

"Neus Catalá voting today (101 years). Member of the JSU and survivor of the Nazi camp of Ravensbrük."

There is only one truth: One side wants to VOTE, the other side wants to prevent it. Stop lying the people from outside Spain.

 

[Tempus fugit]

I think that's because one is more outrageous than the other.

It's not surprising that there are voting irregularities considering the effort the Spanish government have went through to suppress the vote. It was in their interest to make the vote look illegitimate, so they closed down the avenues to authenticate votes.

What is surprising is the unprovoked violence from the Spanish police, especially against other police.

I get you point entirely, really. We have come to this situation because of the irresponsability of both sides, the catalan secessionist movement didn't have enough legitimacy even in its own regional Parliament to pass the referendum law, and the national Goverment efforts have been poor and violent. I understand that the images of police attacking people who wants to vote are shameful. There's no right side.

Lets see how the catalan goverment manages the situation now, but I think that negotiations should be done within the Constitution and the international law.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Curiously my local radio news station didn't mention anything about the referendum at all today (Germany). Speaking of the EU not addressing the violence...

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Curiously my local radio news station didn't mention anything about the referendum at all today (Germany). Speaking of the EU not addressing the violence...

If this was Turkey it would be on the news for weeks.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZtvNt5DUI4/

The republicans face the fascists in Sol, police makes a barricade
It seems police are kicking out the fascists.

 

[Ac30]

If this was Turkey it would be on the news for weeks.

Headline news on the BBC website is showing a video of the police tackling voters and pushing them down stairs so I don't think it's fair to say it's being ignored internationally. This will probably be front page news tomorrow.

 

[Tempus fugit]

No, he said the people who wants to vote and to vote YES is a xenophobic movement. Disgusting. And if you think he is right about that then you obvioulsy know nothing about it.

https://twitter.com/Elba_Celo/status/914535066927292417

"Neus Catalá voting today (101 years). Member of the JSU and survivor of the Nazi camp of Ravensbrük."

There is only one truth: One side wants to VOTE, the other side wants to prevent it. Stop lying the people from outside Spain.

Secessionist movement is a nationalistic xenophobic movement as FN is, difference being that one directs its hate against muslim people and the other against Spanish people; its the same thing that la Lega Nord calling southern italian" terrones", because they are a richer region.

Disgusting, yes.

 

[KingSnake]

So many people have the impression that EU is kind of a superstate that can act somehow as an independent authority.

EU will first try to address this issue internally (Merkel is said to already have spoken on the phone with Rajoy) and try to solve it like this (some might even ask Rajoy to resign behind closed doors) before going public against one of the member states.

 

[Metroxed]

Secessionist movement is a nationalistic xenophobic movement as FN is, difference being that one directs its hate against muslim people and the other against Spanish people; its the same thing that la Lega Nord calling southern italian" terrones", because they are a richer region.

Disgusting, yes.

lol, and then people like you talk about brainwashing and indoctrination, and then absolutely nothing of the things you've said is true. Not remotely.

 

[barber]

So many people have the impression that EU is kind of a superstate that can act somehow as an independent authority.

EU will first try to address this issue internally (Merkel is said to already have spoken on the phone with Rajoy) and try to solve it like this (some might even ask Rajoy to resign behind closed doors) before going public against one of the member states.

The day Rajoy resigns would be a happy day for me. That guy has survived so many fucking scandals and problems by just waiting it is kind of impressive, he basically became president by being the only guy in the PP that was meh enough to survive as a leader (and being chosen by Aznar as someone who would never outshine him ha).

 

[Jasup]

Why is the EU so quiet about all this violence? If this was happening in Russia they would be falling over themselves to condemn it. Just goes to show how toxic politics can be regardless of where it is in the world.

The real answer to your question is: Because the EU that you think of doesn't really exist, not in that form at least.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Secessionist movement is a nationalistic xenophobic movement as FN is, difference being that one directs its hate against muslim people and the other against Spanish people; its the same thing that la Lega Nord calling southern italian" terrones", because they are a richer region.

Disgusting, yes.

Can anyone else say whether this is true or if it’s the kind of nonsense some were peddling during the Scottish independence referendum avout yes voters all just hating the English?

 

[MUnited83]

You can tell me that when even knowing that it lacks legitimacy the secessionist movement declares unilaterally the independence using the result of the referendum and are subsequently reduced by the Spanish State.

You're basically giving your support to an antiglobalisation nationalistic and xenophobic movement thats going to cause a civil war in my country (and revive a nationalistic Spanish movement that has been dead since Franco)

Im sure you love the Confederation secessionist movement also.

Lmao, not even a single one of your points make any sense.
The Spanish nationalistic and xenophobic movements don't want Catalonia to go away. In fact it's the very opposite.
Confederation? Do you even fucking read what you write? The Confederates tried to secede BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO OWN SLAVES. Does Catalonia have a slave situation I'm no aware off.
If anything, a proper comparison would be the US seceding from England.

 

[tirant]

This is not anymore about an illegal referendum, or about independence. It's about a corrupt government sending police against its own citizens.

The people voting there are our neighbours, our friends, our work colleagues and our relatives.

No one in Spain should tolerate this. There is no fucking excuse.

I hate Rajoy I hate PP and anyone supporting this violence.

 

[Chittagong]

Phew, luckily police caught this guy in time before he managed to get wheelchaired to vote illegally

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Can anyone else say whether this is true or if it’s the kind of nonsense some were peddling during the Scottish independence referendum avout yes voters all just hating the English?

The second.

It's true that some independents may hold such ideas, but the major part of the movement is not like that.

 

[trembli0s]

Lmao, not even a single one of your points make any sense.
The Spanish nationalistic and xenophobic movements don't want Catalonia to go away. In fact it's the very opposite.
Confederation? Do you even fucking read what you write? The Confederates tried to secede BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO OWN SLAVES. Does Catalonia have a slave situation I'm no aware off.
If anything, a proper comparison would be the US seceding from England.

Colonies seceding from a country is much different than mostly autonomous regions seceding. I can guarantee you if California or Texas tried to secede the Ntional guard would be mobilized.

 

[barber]

Can anyone else say whether this is true or if it’s the kind of nonsense some were peddling during the Scottish independence referendum avout yes voters all just hating the English?

There is a reaaaally small minority of catalonian that may act as superior of spaniards and laugh at the rest of us, but it is a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally small percentage that is always peddled as a huge percentage by some wings. So like in every country.
There might be some extra stuff in the way of the governing that irritates people (as in a lot of emphasis in their language and some cuestionable investment in "historical research" or embassies) but otherwise, same as every part of spain where everyone just thinks the rest of the spaniards are ____ (introduce here the regional variant of lazy / stupid / etc).

 

[Tiamant]

Can anyone else say whether this is true or if it’s the kind of nonsense some were peddling during the Scottish independence referendum avout yes voters all just hating the English?

Utter rubbish.

 

[Tempus fugit]

Lmao, not even a single one of your points make any sense.
The Spanish nationalistic and xenophobic movements don't want Catalonia to go away. In fact it's the very opposite.
Confederation? Do you even fucking read what you write? The Confederates tried to secede BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO OWN SLAVES. Does Catalonia have a slave situation I'm no aware off.
If anything, a proper comparison would be the US seceding from England.

-There are nationalistic movements in both sides, Catalonian and Spanish, both getting benefited by this situation of tension, try to read me.

- The reason they wanted to separate doesn't matter, if they wanted to separate because of any other reason would have Lincoln allowed it?

- Your "proper comparison" is with a colony that couldn't vote in the XVIIIth century?

Pathetic.

 

[Palette Swap]

Rajoy’s handling of the situation looks like a colossal failure. “Don’t beat people who want to vote” shouldn’t have to be spelled out.

Curiously my local radio news station didn't mention anything about the referendum at all today (Germany). Speaking of the EU not addressing the violence...

It looks like it’s everywhere in French news, so YMMV.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

This is not anymore about an illegal referendum, or about independence. It's about a corrupt government sending police against its own citizens.

The people voting there are our neighbours, our friends, our work colleagues and our relatives.

No one in Spain should tolerate this. There is no fucking excuse.

I hate Rajoy I hate PP and anyone supporting this violence.

People still revere Franco as a stabilizing agent...even my own family.
It's like MAGA bullshit from Trump.

 

[Frankfurter]

Curiously my local radio news station didn't mention anything about the referendum at all today (Germany). Speaking of the EU not addressing the violence...

It's top news on tons of online sites in Germany... tagesschau.de, spiegel.de, focus.de, süddeutsche.de, zeit.de to just name a few.

 

[Tempus fugit]

The second.

It's true that some independents may hold such ideas, but the major part of the movement is not like that.

I quote Jordi Pujol, one of the most prominent catalonian separatist leaders: "El hombre andaluz (...) vive en un estado de ignorancia y de miseria cultural, mental y espiritual. Es un hombre desarraigado, incapaz de tener un sentido un poco amplio de comunidad" which roughly translates as "the andalusian (people from the south of Spain) live in an state of ignorance an spiritual, cultural and mental misery, they have no roots, no sense of community"

In fact he's basically tha father of the modern catalan nationalistic movement.

 

[Beefy]

Sure.....

 

[MistakenMobius]

Can anyone else say whether this is true or if it’s the kind of nonsense some were peddling during the Scottish independence referendum avout yes voters all just hating the English?

Well usual euro football racism it seems at the minimum:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jan/09/espanyol-president-racism-daniel-alves
Throwing banana and making monkey noise toward black people at th minimum.

 

[barber]

People still revere Franco as a stabilizing agent...even my own family.
It's like MAGA bullshit from Trump.

UGyL (ugggh)
Spain really needed that opening of communal tombs and fucking exposing the rot of our history in the early 2000s, but here you have the fucking PP not allowing that either even when the law has been passed. We still had streets named after sublevated generals in my city until last year.

 

[Daffy Duck]

I’m confused, is this an official thing?

I see the BBC are saying police are stopping people voting....what’s that all about?

 

[Syder]

When I see all these clips of police attacking voters all I see are a bunch of thugs enjoying hurting unarmed civilians.

Disgraceful.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I quote Jordi Pujol, one of the most prominent catalonian separatist leaders: "El hombre andaluz (...) vive en un estado de ignorancia y de miseria cultural, mental y espiritual. Es un hombre desarraigado, incapaz de tener un sentido un poco amplio de comunidad" which roughly translates as "the andalusian (people from the south of Spain) live in an state of ignorance an spiritual, cultural and mental misery, they have no roots, no sense of community"

In fact he's basically tha father of the modern catalan nationalistic movement.

Jordi Pujol is a pariah here.

The movement went beyond from the minds of CiU and the political sons of Francesc Cambó. There's a reason why CiU as it was dosn't exist anymore.

Also Jordi Pujol was never an independentist (except now, to save face), he was a defensor of the associate state inside Spain idea.

 

[ezodagrom]

Colonies seceding from a country is much different than mostly autonomous regions seceding. I can guarantee you if California or Texas tried to secede the Ntional guard would be mobilized.

Then a proper comparison would be Portugal seceding from Spain, twice (in the 1000s and 1600s).

 

[Metroxed]

Then a proper comparison would be Portugal seceding from Spain, twice (in the 1000s and 1600s).

Portugal seceded from León, Spain did not exist in the 1000s.

 

[Tempus fugit]

Jordi Pujol is a pariah here.

The movement went beyond from the minds of CiU and the political sons of Francesc Cambó. There's a reason why CiU as it was dosn't exist anymore.

Also Jordi Pujol was never an independentist (except now, to save face), he was a defensor of the associate state inside Spain idea.

Well, he governed Catalonia for more than twenty years and the current President de la Generalitat is from the same political party

 

[Nekster]

Secessionist movement is a nationalistic xenophobic movement as FN is, difference being that one directs its hate against muslim people and the other against Spanish people; its the same thing that la Lega Nord calling southern italian" terrones", because they are a richer region.

Disgusting, yes.

False, i'm Catalan, i know a lot of people who wants to vote yes and all of them (including me) have friends and family from spain outside of catalunya. We don't hate spanish people or Spain. How can we? We all have loved ones from outside catalunya. You're just a liar.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

I’m confused, is this an official thing?

I see the BBC are saying police are stopping people voting....what’s that all about?

It's a unilateral referendum, technically illegal and pretty surely without democratic guarantees.
The government is following its strategy for the past 5 years, a combination of ignoring the conversation and evading dialogue and using the judiciary as a tool, and now they are sendin the police to beat people up over what is effectively a protest with no legal significance. (Save for the fact everything is organized by the regional government, it's an ugly mess)
This is a minority government, and very unpopular, so there is a strong possibility there will be impeachment after this incompetent and violent reaction.

 

[Ac30]

Sure.....

They just keep digging that hole, Christ.

 

[trembli0s]

Then a proper comparison would be Portugal seceding from Spain, twice (in the 1000s and 1600s).

What a fantastic comparison, only going back 400+ years! Nothing has changed since those days!

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Well, he governed Catalonia for more than twenty years and the current President de la Generalitat is from the same political party

And they did their best to separate from his persona. Also, only half of the party CiU, (Convergencia i Unió) is broken, Unio side left (which is the part that was closer to Pujol nationalist ideals)

Jordi Pujol is no longer a respected face of the catalonian nationalist movement.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Secessionist movement is a nationalistic xenophobic movement as FN is, difference being that one directs its hate against muslim people and the other against Spanish people; its the same thing that la Lega Nord calling southern italian" terrones", because they are a richer region.

Disgusting, yes.

Is this a troll account? Your bullshit is so transparent, I don't think you're convincing anyone.

 

[psychowave]

Rajoy's words are fucking disgusting right now.

"Some have tried to steal the words away from people who think differently" you mean like your fucking cops who beat people up to prevent them from voting?

 

[Ac30]

Rajoy's words are fucking disgusting right now.

Is there a live translation anywhere?

EDIT: It's live on Euronews