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[Vermillion]

Dating-age threads used to be so beautiful

When?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

When?

Before PUA.

 

[Raiden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU

Great, now you got me watching the entire show again.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

->





Huh?

Well okay, you got me there! I'll be in the corner shutting up now

My friends think I'm overanalyzing and putting her on a pedestal, but I can't help but think this prospect has been ruined. :|

I'm not seeing the 'problem' here.....
Her coincidentally being a friend-of-a-friend should be an advantage surely?
Why would seeing more of her instantly friend zone you? It should've just provided more opportunity to go after her.

 

[soundahfekz]

Interesting development. Turns out a girl I hit it off with a few weeks ago out on the town is actually a childhood friend of my roommate. And she comes by all the time.

constant exposure immediately threw me into the friend-zone.

Since when did constant exposure to someone make you friend zoned? This isn't true at all man unless you're making yourself way too available for her schedule.

Another is that she goes to parties and clubs all the time. She's a couple years younger than me, and she likes bad boys, so that's a strike too.

How is this a strike? Simply change the intent in which you have to enjoying a good time and a little more if it goes down. You don't need to fall in love with every women you're attracted to, you just need to get out there and experience she doesn't need to be a relationship candidate.

On the other hand, every time I've been out with her at a club or party, she has rebuffed all other guys hitting on her. She also knows from our first meeting that I am definitely interested, though the flirting has toned down. She also knows for a fact that she's safe when I'm around.

This is the only thing I see that's not good. It's good that she feels safe around you, but I'm picking up that you're more of a support friend (be with me while I'm drunk) based on your over analysis of the situation.

My friends think I'm overanalyzing and putting her on a pedestal, but I can't help but think this prospect has been ruined. :|

The friendzone only exists because the mentality it takes to rise above it for some guys can be like climbing out of a well. It's usually better to abort and start fresh but it's all about what you do to start making that distinction that you are not just a tag along guy friend.

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

Interesting development. Turns out a girl I hit it off with a few weeks ago out on the town is actually a childhood friend of my roommate. And she comes by all the time.

A couple of challenges are present. One is that this constant exposure immediately threw me into the friend-zone. Another is that she goes to parties and clubs all the time. She's a couple years younger than me, and she likes bad boys, so that's a strike too.

On the other hand, every time I've been out with her at a club or party, she has rebuffed all other guys hitting on her. She also knows from our first meeting that I am definitely interested, though the flirting has toned down. She also knows for a fact that she's safe when I'm around.

My friends think I'm overanalyzing and putting her on a pedestal, but I can't help but think this prospect has been ruined. :|

Not really ruined. As it was already pointed out you already have an advantage over other guys it's up to you to take initiative and seize the opportunity

 

[grumble]

Interesting development. Turns out a girl I hit it off with a few weeks ago out on the town is actually a childhood friend of my roommate. And she comes by all the time.

A couple of challenges are present. One is that this constant exposure immediately threw me into the friend-zone. Another is that she goes to parties and clubs all the time. She's a couple years younger than me, and she likes bad boys, so that's a strike too.

On the other hand, every time I've been out with her at a club or party, she has rebuffed all other guys hitting on her. She also knows from our first meeting that I am definitely interested, though the flirting has toned down. She also knows for a fact that she's safe when I'm around.

My friends think I'm overanalyzing and putting her on a pedestal, but I can't help but think this prospect has been ruined. :|

You've probably waited too long, but be assertive and ask her out. Otherwise move on.

 

[Vermillion]

Before PUA.

Then there was Combine, so not really.

 

[bluemax]

Then there was Combine, so not really.

This thread and its predecessors have always been terrible.

 

[Raiden]

Anyway, to get this topic a bit back on thread i have a little situation here myself. Was not planning on posting it, but it bothered me more than i thought it would. I'll keep it short.

Last saturday i met this girl at a bar and we took off pretty well, basically spended 4 hours or so talking to just each other, i introduced her to my friends etcetera etcetera, took her with me outside. Finally my friends left and it was just me, her and her friend left. Talked some more and then finally drove her home on her bike(apparantly she lives just around the corner where i live hah!). Talked for over an hour at her doorstep before we said goodbye. Got her number.

Felt things were really good, so the next day or so i text her, and i dont know how to describe it but her texting just seems weird. Like she's not that interested. But she texted me out of the blue to ask how i was doing a couple of days later so i thought well okay perhaps she just "texts" this way.

So yeah i ask her if she wanted to come see a movie at my place(she loves movies and series). She says sure yeah and tells me that she might make it on thursday.

Well thursday comes up and she texts me just plain "Hey Raiden, im not going to be able to make it tonight"


No explanation or nothing. I texted her back something like "Alright thats okay, but hey if you dont want to meet thats fine by me, no worries " Got no response back.

Note: I forgot to mention i already texted her if she wants to she can come by at my place earlier in the week. Perhaps i was a bit too pushy dont know, i guess i liked her.

Anyway, anyone had something like this happen? Where a girl seems really interested in you but texting just seems off? Its hard to tell with those stupid messages.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Anyway, to get this topic a bit back on thread i have a little situation here myself. Was not planning on posting it, but it bothered me more than i thought it would. I'll keep it short.

Last saturday i met this girl at a bar and we took off pretty well, basically spended 4 hours or so talking to just each other, i introduced her to my friends etcetera etcetera, took her with me outside. Finally my friends left and it was just me and her friend left. Talked some more and then finally drove her home on her bike(apparantly she lives just around the corner where i live hah!). Talked for over an hour at her doorstep before we said goodbye. Got her number.

Felt things were really good, so the next day or so i text her, and i dont know how to describe it but her texting just seems weird. Like she's not that interested. But she texted me out of the blue to ask how i was doing a couple of days later so i thought well okay perhaps she just "texts" this way.

So yeah i ask her if she wanted to come see a movie at my place(she loves movies and series). She says sure yeah and tells me that she might make it on thursday.

Well thursday comes up and she texts me just plain "Hey Raiden, im not going to be able to make it tonight"


No explanation or nothing. I texted her back something like "Alright thats okay, but hey if you dont want to meet thats fine by me, no worries " Got no response back.

Note: I forgot to mention i already texted her if she wants to she can come by at my place earlier in the week. Perhaps i was a bit too pushy dont know, i guess i liked her.

Anyway, anyone had something like this happen? Where a girl seems really interested in you but texting just seems off? Its hard to tell with those stupid messages.

#1 leave the smiley's behind
#2 All you had to say was 'Alright, no problem'. You didn't need to say 'If you don't want to meet, thats fine'. Again, not saying you meant anything by it, but it can come across weird.
#3 Let her contact you next and let HER initiate the hang out. Don't ask her to hang out if she does contact you.

 

[Mumei]

You're really gonna play the "when did I call men in here rapists?" card? You've done everything here but look to make men look like complete imbeciles, quoting feminist sites and ranting about women being raped because they didn't verbally commit without one peep about how many men, by your own (and your site's) definition have been "raped" as well. I'm waiting to see your research on that one.

You're allowing your disdain for Devolution color how you read her posts here. She is not saying that "no verbal consent = rape" without exception. She is saying that it is dangerous to assume that because she is "cooperating" she is necessarily "consenting" (e.g. she wants to have sex with you) because sometimes women can be intimidated into sex even if the man is not intending it because she worries about the consequences of saying no.

I am sure if you asked her - because I have - she would be able to think of times during the course of her previous relationship in which she initiated sex and did not ask for verbal consent or vice versa; in the context of a long-term relationship one learns to be able to read the other person. The danger is more particular to the early stages of dating and one night stands, which should be salient in a topic like this. And it is also true that some men are capable of reading signs and tell the difference between a girl who is just going along with it and a girl who is actually wanting to do it. But there are enough men who either cannot tell the difference or who do not care about the difference that women do get raped in this manner. So if you are not certain: Ask.

So again:

She is not saying that sex without verbal consent is rape, she is saying that it can be rape, and so it is worth both asking and worth making clear that you are okay with hearing no. I think part of the reason for the controversy in this topic is that a lot of people are in here not because of their dating success but because they are looking for advice, and the last thing they want to hear about is another barrier. But she was not assuming the worst of men by thinking that they would want to know that cooperation does not necessarily imply consent and would want to be having sex with someone who is doing it because they want to and not because they are feeling intimidated.

And I have far too much of a splitting headache to continue this now, but I'd be happy to talk about it later if you want.

->

Huh?

CrushDance's post elicited a response in which someone said "Should have fucked her. Stop asking permission for every single touch" and another in which someone argued essentially the same thing and that if she's cooperating, she's consenting. These things started a discussion on consent, and it originated with CrushDance's post.

The posts you happened to quote were not particularly salient to how the topic became about that.

 

[soundahfekz]

#1 leave the smiley's behind
#2 All you had to say was 'Alright, no problem'. You didn't need to say 'If you don't want to meet, thats fine'. Again, not saying you meant anything by it, but it can come across weird.
#3 Let her contact you next and let HER initiate the hang out. Don't ask her to hang out if she does contact you.

I disagree with leaving smileys behind as a "rule". They aren't necessary and in some cases you def SHOULDN'T (like this one being passive aggressive) so in that respect i agree, but it's all about how you interact with a woman when you're with her. A smiley can convey how you would say something and smile in person if she knows you enough. I think that's all down to personal style though

You're allowing your disdain for Devolution color how you read her posts here. She is not saying that "no verbal consent = rape" without exception. She is saying that it is dangerous to assume that because she is "cooperating" she is necessarily "consenting" (e.g. she wants to have sex with you) because sometimes women can be intimidated into sex even if the man is not intending it because she worries about the consequences of saying no.

I am sure if you asked her - because I have - she would be able to think of times during the course of her previous relationship in which she initiated sex and did not ask for verbal consent or vice versa; in the context of a long-term relationship one learns to be able to read the other person. The danger is more particular to the early stages of dating and one night stands, which should be salient in a topic like this. And it is also true that some men are capable of reading signs and tell the difference between a girl who is just going along with it and a girl who is actually wanting to do it. But there are enough men who either cannot tell the difference or who do not care about the difference that women do get raped in this manner. So if you are not certain: Ask.

So again:

She is not saying that sex without verbal consent is rape, she is saying that it can be rape, and so it is worth both asking and worth making clear that you are okay with hearing no. I think part of the reason for the controversy in this topic is that a lot of people are in here not because of their dating success but because they are looking for advice, and the last thing they want to hear about is another barrier. But she was not assuming the worst of men by thinking that they would want to know that cooperation does not necessarily imply consent and would want to be having sex with someone who is doing it because they want to and not because they are feeling intimidated.

And I have far too much of a splitting headache to continue this now, but I'd be happy to talk about it later if you want.



CrushDance's post elicited a response in which someone said "Should have fucked her. Stop asking permission for every single touch" and another in which someone argued essentially the same thing and that if she's cooperating, she's consenting. These things started a discussion on consent, and it originated with CrushDance's post.

The posts you happened to quote were not particularly salient to how the topic became about that.

I like Devo overall and have nothing but respect for her and the majority of posters on the board. I do feel that in some ways she's let the desire to educate gaffers about women consume her to the point of being too slanted to compensate for being the gender minority on GAF. People don't even want to post in heated topics involving women and Devo because people are more apt to be banned when a mod sees the discussion, like they'll refrain here now. Let's just be real.

I'm not sure why it's necessary to come to Devo's defense when she's more than capable of responding to my post own her own. Some of the guys in here will barely touch a woman when its desired, so it's extremely unlikely that they're going to be in a situation of a woman claiming rape because they didn't ask her specifically if she "wanted this dick". I understand the idea, it's the execution of said idea that doesn't sit right.

 

[AdventureRacing]

You're allowing your disdain for Devolution color how you read her posts here. She is not saying that "no verbal consent = rape" without exception. She is saying that it is dangerous to assume that because she is "cooperating" she is necessarily "consenting" (e.g. she wants to have sex with you) because sometimes women can be intimidated into sex even if the man is not intending it because she worries about the consequences of saying no.

If a woman is so intimidated that she is willing to have sex despite not wanting to and not consenting to it what makes you think that asking her will change anything? If you say "do you want to have sex?" she still has to say no.

Again, plenty of men don't feel it necessary, yet go ahead and rape someone anyway.

Because they either can't read body language properly or because they simply don't care. Either way i don't see why that means i should ask permission any time i have sex. I've never done it, i don't know of anyone who does it and honestly before reading this thread i had no idea people actually did it.

Sure if it makes you feel comfortable than you should go ahead and do it but it absolutely isn't necessary.

 

[Gaborn]

Because they either can't read body language properly or because they simply don't care. Either way i don't see why that means i should ask permission any time i have sex. I've never done it, i don't know of anyone who does it and honestly before reading this thread i had no idea people actually did it.

Sure if it makes you feel comfortable than you should go ahead and do it but it absolutely isn't necessary.

So you're saying all your sexual partners were asking for it?

 

[AdventureRacing]

So you're saying all your sexual partners were asking for it?

I'm saying that it was pretty obvious that we both wanted sex and it would be completely unnecessary to ask.

 

[CrushDance]

Okay. Let me answer and explain some of the things said since I posted yesterday. I'm sorry it took so long for a reply, but I had to work this morning too and have been all day til now.

When we were fooling around in my bed, I did not ask to do anything out of the "ordinary". General touchy feely things I did, but my hands never went anywhere sensitive unless I askes or she did it on her own. I didn't just start grasping at her wildly, even though I wanted too.

And here is the issue. It doesn't matter who you are or your beliefs when you're aroused. You'll do things that you may not have thought possible or "noble" simply because that's what we are. You don't need to read a manual or something to know how to have sex with the opposite sex. It just comes naturally. So it took damn near everything I had and more, to not let my hands go wild or "be a man" like some of you are saying. Why?
Because we talked beofre about our sexual experiences, or lack thereof and had a very candid conversation about it, and where we both wanted to go regarding intimacy. So the thought of suddenly overpowering her and "making her say yes" as some people are implying; is not only wrong because I personally promised her that I did not want a relationship or wait this long just for sex. And also for the simple fact that if she said no to something and I persisted, THAT'D BE RAPE./

It would be a totally different thing if we were not on the same page about sex and she was experienced. But I still wouldn't have had sex with her! Because [b/I do not *want* sex from someone right away. Do I want sex? Of course! Everything in my body was storming yesterday to go further, to have sex. I've never felt so heated before about anything. But there is a clear difference between a desire and what's right. So it's kind of baffling to me, hearing some of you say that I was being weak(When it took tremendous willpower to hold myself back) or that her no's were for fun. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to betray my own word on such an intimate matter.
//
She texted me last night simply saying "goodnight". Which really helped in me being able to sleep. This morning as I was heading to work she texted me agai and simply said: "Uh oh". I wanted to text her back and ask what the uh oh was for, but I'm still reeling from her response. It's been nearly a whole day now with no contact and I'm just thinking of how to explain how I feel/felt when she said that to me while making it clear that I do not want to continue things. It's only been two weeks total really, but I'm just annoyed that I "wasted my time" on her and still angry moreso that she accused me of something so horrible.

Edit:I only asked for permission because we'd talked about this type of thing before and she told me that I SHOULD ASK BEFORE DOING ANYTHING SERIOUS. ALWAYS. Just wtf@ some of you trying to say "You should have pushed it". Remember that she is a virgin just like me and the last thing I'd want is for someone to force me to have sex when I didn't want too.

A few things to consider Crush-

1) I'd recommend either being in a relationship with her or getting far away. If you're going to help, you probably have to do it as a boyfriend. Otherwise one of you is going to develop feelings for the other. If it's her and then you get a new gf, she'll REALLY have trust issues with guys. If it's you and she gets used/abused by a new guy... well that'll definitely hurt you too.

This is what's bothering me the most. I don't want her to never trust guys, but it really seems like some ass attempted to force her once and so she's so reactionary when my hand wanders. I do not want to put it on my plate to deal with, but I feel for her.

Hardly (and certainly no more than others here). Think about this: this girl initiated physical intimacy, was led on and teased for two hours. She wanted sex, but was then ultimately rejected. This is hard for a guy to handle, IMAGINE A WOMAN. She feels completely unnattractive and ridiculous and wanted to get back to crushdance for making her feel this way. This perfectly explains her childish irrational accusation. She felt like shit.

Of course I am not defending her, and in the spirit of crushdance I suppose he does want someone who can handle his arcane courtship rituals, but I am not that surprised by this (it used to happen to me back in my late teens when I had an idealistic view of this stuff).

If you have the opportunity to have sex with the girl you like, outright TURNING HER DOWN THE FIRST TIME is likely a huge mistake, it can downright kill everything you had going.

What the hell? How was she lead on?! She started it! She put my hands on her breasts! We discussed this shit before and we BOTH said we wanted to take our time before going that far!

 

[soundahfekz]

Okay. Let me answer and explain some of the things said since I posted yesterday. I'm sorry it took so long for a reply, but I had to work this morning too and have been all day til now.

When we were fooling around in my bed, I did not ask to do anything out of the "ordinary". General touchy feely things I did, but my hands never went anywhere sensitive unless I askes or she did it on her own. I didn't just start grasping at her wildly, even though I wanted too.

And here is the issue. It doesn't matter who you are or your beliefs when you're aroused. You'll do things that you may not have thought possible or "noble" simply because that's what we are. You don't need to read a manual or something to know how to have sex with the opposite sex. It just comes naturally. So it took damn near everything I had and more, to not let my hands go wild or "be a man" like some of you are saying. Why?
Because we talked beofre about our sexual experiences, or lack thereof and had a very candid conversation about it, and where we both wanted to go regarding intimacy. So the thought of suddenly overpowering her and "making her say yes" as some people are implying; is not only wrong because I personally promised her that I did not want a relationship or wait this long just for sex. And also for the simple fact that if she said no to something and I persisted, THAT'D BE RAPE./

It would be a totally different thing if we were not on the same page about sex and she was experienced. But I still wouldn't have had sex with her! Because [b/I do not *want* sex from someone right away. Do I want sex? Of course! Everything in my body was storming yesterday to go further, to have sex. I've never felt so heated before about anything. But there is a clear difference between a desire and what's right. So it's kind of baffling to me, hearing some of you say that I was being weak(When it took tremendous willpower to hold myself back) or that her no's were for fun. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to betray my own word on such an intimate matter.
//
She texted me last night simply saying "goodnight". Which really helped in me being able to sleep. This morning as I was heading to work she texted me agai and simply said: "Uh oh". I wanted to text her back and ask what the uh oh was for, but I'm still reeling from her response. It's been nearly a whole day now with no contact and I'm just thinking of how to explain how I feel/felt when she said that to me while making it clear that I do not want to continue things. It's only been two weeks total really, but I'm just annoyed that I "wasted my time" on her and still angry moreso that she accused me of something so horrible.

Edit:I only asked for permission because we'd talked about this type of thing before and she told me that I SHOULD ASK BEFORE DOING ANYTHING SERIOUS. ALWAYS. Just wtf@ some of you trying to say "You should have pushed it". Remember that she is a virgin just like me and the last thing I'd want is for someone to force me to have sex when I didn't want too.

You did the right thing in respecting her verbal and body language. You also did the right thing in cutting contact as her reaction sounded entirely ridiculous unless there's previous trauma there. I wouldn't say anything else and just leave it as is, she'll get the hint.

 

[Gaborn]

If a woman is so intimidated that she is willing to have sex despite not wanting to and not consenting to it what makes you think that asking her will change anything? If you say "do you want to have sex?" she still has to say no.

It sounds like you're 1. looking for reasons to not ask when the standard should be that you always ask except in extreme cases. 2. Assuming that a woman that is intimidated by the experience into NOT saying something after the fact will not object prior to. This seems like poor form to me.

I'm saying that it was pretty obvious that we both wanted sex and it would be completely unnecessary to ask.

Suppose that I accept what you're saying. Suppose that is always true for you and your sexual partners. Do you honestly think this is a good general rule of thumb to have? I'm a guy, I get it, guys LOVE sex. We absolutely love it. We'd be tapping dat ass every night if we could. The problem is that for some men justifications slip in, short cuts if you will. And then assumptions start. Your view of sexual situations may or may no be working for you in fact but I think it'd actually be downright dangerous if men were taught that more broadly. Many men will make a lot of assumptions if it means they can have sex, whether those assumptions are warranted or not.

And that is why you should as a general rule ALWAYS ask just in case you happen to be seeing what you want to see when you evaluate a situation like that. I fully believe most men are not rapists. I also believe a lot of men don't always have a crystal clear idea of what rape is and that lends itself to many men who wouldn't rape doing so out of their own ignorance and horniness.

 

[Devolution]

I like Devo overall and have nothing but respect for her and the majority of posters on the board. I do feel that in some ways she's let the desire to educate gaffers about women consume her to the point of being too slanted to compensate for being the gender minority on GAF. People don't even want to post in heated topics involving women and Devo because people are more apt to be banned when a mod sees the discussion, like they'll refrain here now. Let's just be real.

I'm not sure why it's necessary to come to Devo's defense when she's more than capable of responding to my post own her own. Some of the guys in here will barely touch a woman when its desired, so it's extremely unlikely that they're going to be in a situation of a woman claiming rape because they didn't ask her specifically if she "wanted this dick". I understand the idea, it's the execution of said idea that doesn't sit right.

I don't particularly like the insinuations that I hate men, that I think all men are rapists when all I'm doing is telling the truth and the reality of the situations that surround sex. Many women are raped simply because they aren't not truly engaged about how they feel enough during their sexual encounters. Do you think we should keep on saying "just go with the flow" given the numbers or that more men should be actively seeking consent?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Okay. Let me answer and explain some of the things said since I posted yesterday. I'm sorry it took so long for a reply, but I had to work this morning too and have been all day til now.

When we were fooling around in my bed, I did not ask to do anything out of the "ordinary". General touchy feely things I did, but my hands never went anywhere sensitive unless I askes or she did it on her own. I didn't just start grasping at her wildly, even though I wanted too.

And here is the issue. It doesn't matter who you are or your beliefs when you're aroused. You'll do things that you may not have thought possible or "noble" simply because that's what we are. You don't need to read a manual or something to know how to have sex with the opposite sex. It just comes naturally. So it took damn near everything I had and more, to not let my hands go wild or "be a man" like some of you are saying. Why?
Because we talked beofre about our sexual experiences, or lack thereof and had a very candid conversation about it, and where we both wanted to go regarding intimacy. So the thought of suddenly overpowering her and "making her say yes" as some people are implying; is not only wrong because I personally promised her that I did not want a relationship or wait this long just for sex. And also for the simple fact that if she said no to something and I persisted, THAT'D BE RAPE./

It would be a totally different thing if we were not on the same page about sex and she was experienced. But I still wouldn't have had sex with her! Because [b/I do not *want* sex from someone right away. Do I want sex? Of course! Everything in my body was storming yesterday to go further, to have sex. I've never felt so heated before about anything. But there is a clear difference between a desire and what's right. So it's kind of baffling to me, hearing some of you say that I was being weak(When it took tremendous willpower to hold myself back) or that her no's were for fun. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to betray my own word on such an intimate matter.
//
She texted me last night simply saying "goodnight". Which really helped in me being able to sleep. This morning as I was heading to work she texted me agai and simply said: "Uh oh". I wanted to text her back and ask what the uh oh was for, but I'm still reeling from her response. It's been nearly a whole day now with no contact and I'm just thinking of how to explain how I feel/felt when she said that to me while making it clear that I do not want to continue things. It's only been two weeks total really, but I'm just annoyed that I "wasted my time" on her and still angry moreso that she accused me of something so horrible.

Edit:I only asked for permission because we'd talked about this type of thing before and she told me that I SHOULD ASK BEFORE DOING ANYTHING SERIOUS. ALWAYS. Just wtf@ some of you trying to say "You should have pushed it". Remember that she is a virgin just like me and the last thing I'd want is for someone to force me to have sex when I didn't want too.


This is what's bothering me the most. I don't want her to never trust guys, but it really seems like some ass attempted to force her once and so she's so reactionary when my hand wanders. I do not want to put it on my plate to deal with, but I feel for her.


What the hell? How was she lead on?! She started it! She put my hands on her breasts! We discussed this shit before and we BOTH said we wanted to take our time before going that far!

But you are still not realizing that you made her feel rejected. Many of us have told you to not call her or continue the relationship but we're trying to help you realize the things you should do differently next time. It doesnt have anything to do with pushing a woman or being a man. Its about using forsight to realize that

1. Having a woman watch a movie with you in your room is a good way to create an opportunity for somethig sexual.
2. Dont schedule a date like that when you have work a few hours later.
3. Understand that she did feel rejected and id bet it doesnt have anything to do with you not having sex with her.

 

[CrushDance]

Why would I let her have sex with me? I'm confused by this reocurring statement. Not all guys want sex, all the time! Just switch that around for a second and think what that'd mean if this were a long term relationship and I said or acted in a way to show that I wanted sex and she aid No. Would I then have to "be a man" and force myself on her? What the fuck?

So how can a woman say she wants sex and just force her way too? What the hell am I reading?

But you are still not realizing that you made her feel rejected. Many of us have told you to not call her or continue the relationship but we're trying to help you realize the things you should do differently next time. It doesnt have anything to do with pushing a woman or being a man. Its about using forsight to realize that

1. Having a woman watch a movie with you in your room is a good way to create an opportunity for somethig sexual.
2. Dont schedule a date like that when you have work a few hours later.
3. Understand that she did feel rejected and id bet it doesnt have anything to do with you not having sex with her.

1. SHE was the one who suggested the movie and my place. I wanted to go for a walk/icecream or something outdoors.
2. I was not expecting anything to happen beyond some hand-holding/kissing maybe. We had boundaries.
3. I can understand that.

He handled the situation wrong by letting it get to the point it did. Again, don't have her watch a movie in your room. If she is scratching, biting, stop it THERE. Don't have a 2 HOUR MAKE OUT SESSION where she is getting EXTREMELY aroused and then not even help HER get off. He could have said, 'I'm not reading to have sex yet BUT I really want to make you cum'. He didn't, she felt rejected and EMPTY.

This is not true. At one point I was really gunning and DID ask her if I could go lower. She said no, that it'd take too long. And I told her that not for me, but for her. As in that I wasn't intending to have straight up sex with her, but to, you know. Fuck. I'm not writing the details out on here. I'm sorry but some of the things said/don are too much.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

So I have a bit of an, er, embarassing problem that I could do with some advice with. Last week while having sex with my girl (kind of rough sex actually) I seemed to have cut the inside of my foreskin and its just slowly healing up now. Usually this wouldn't be too much of a problem but this weekend is her birthday and she's the type of girl that loves sex (she seriously told me that lots of sex is very important to her) and I'm a bit worried about if it's going to be possible for us to have sex this weekend as obviously I want to and I know that she'll be very pissed if its not possible.

How does that happen? Isnt inside a vagina soft?

EDIT- And this is the second time i caught this thread go to shit. The first was that pick up artist BS.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Why would I let her have sex with me? I'm confused by this reocurring statement. Not all guys want sex, all the time! Just switch that around for a second and think what that'd mean if this were a long term relationship and I said or acted in a way to show that I wanted sex and she aid No. Would I then have to "be a man" and force myself on her? What the fuck?

So how can a woman say she wants sex and just force her way too? What the hell am I reading?


1. SHE was the one who suggested the movie and my place. I wanted to go for a walk/icecream or something outdoors.
2. I was not expecting anything to happen beyond some hand-holding/kissing maybe. We had boundaries.
3. I can understand that.

Interesting. Well you had the right idea so thats good. Are you sure shes a virgin btw?

 

[CrushDance]

Interesting. Well you had the right idea so thats good. Are you sure shes a virgin btw?

Well like I said, when I mentioned going lower; she said "No. It'd take too long." and honestly, I just took her word for it about being a virgin. There's really no reason to lie about that or brag I suppose.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Posting from phone; please ignore incoherencies.

This is the only thing I see that's not good. It's good that she feels safe around you, but I'm picking up that you're more of a support friend (be with me while I'm drunk) based on your over analysis of the situation.

Not quite. She's normally the one watching over her friends and staying sober; it just happens that I've been there to lend a hand. If anything, she seems reluctant to solicit my help for fear of being a burden.

The friendzone only exists because the mentality it takes to rise above it for some guys can be like climbing out of a well. It's usually better to abort and start fresh but it's all about what you do to start making that distinction that you are not just a tag along guy friend.

Agreed... I'm pretty sure she's aware the dynamic between the two of us is a little different than the rest of our friends. I think I can still pull this one off. Come to think of it, she did tease me the first night we met that she would be a challenge for me, so I guess I gotta play the game.

You've probably waited too long, but be assertive and ask her out. Otherwise move on.

I actually did hit her up the week we met, but she wasn't available. She has been giving me some new signs though so she may well have really been busy.

As usual I'm probably sweating the small stuff.

 

[CrushDance]

I am just going to say this Crush,

You need to change your perception and view of women. To look at a woman who you find attractive on the street isn't MISTREATING them. Women aren't these goddess that need to be treated like delicate nuclear weapons. This is one reason why you acted the way you did in the bedroom. Women want sex just like men do. Women are sexual creatures. You don't need to think about every single thing you're going to do with a woman. Be natural. Don't treat her as if she isn't really sure what she is doing.

I know. It's something that I think about a lot. I just feel "wrong" when getting physical because I always feel that they're going to freak out or that I might do something "bad".

Edit: And something obvious that people are probably not thinking about: We had no condoms or anything! This was supposed to be a simple hang out. Can't really have sex without a condom.

 

[AdventureRacing]

It sounds like you're 1. looking for reasons to not ask when the standard should be that you always ask except in extreme cases.

I'm not looking for reasons not to ask, i've just never seen any reason to ask.

2. Assuming that a woman that is intimidated by the experience into NOT saying something after the fact will not object prior to. This seems like poor form to me.

Where did i say that? I said that if a woman is so intimidated that she is willing to have sex despite not wanting to and not consenting to it that simply saying "do you want to?" won't really have much effect. She is still going to be intimidated into just saying yes.

Suppose that I accept what you're saying. Suppose that is always true for you and your sexual partners. Do you honestly think this is a good general rule of thumb to have? I'm a guy, I get it, guys LOVE sex. We absolutely love it. We'd be tapping dat ass every night if we could.

I'm not really into sex that much at all. I mean sure i enjoy it but it isn't anywhere near as high on my priority list as most guys.

The thing is the only time i end up in a situation to have sex is when we are both really wanting it otherwise i wouldn't go there at all.

The problem is that for some men justifications slip in, short cuts if you will. And then assumptions start. Your view of sexual situations may or may no be working for you in fact but I think it'd actually be downright dangerous if men were taught that more broadly. Many men will make a lot of assumptions if it means they can have sex, whether those assumptions are warranted or not.

And that is why you should as a general rule ALWAYS ask just in case you happen to be seeing what you want to see when you evaluate a situation like that. I fully believe most men are not rapists. I also believe a lot of men don't always have a crystal clear idea of what rape is and that lends itself to many men who wouldn't rape doing so out of their own ignorance and horniness.

I have no doubt this is true and i see what you're saying but that doesn't mean i personally am going to start asking before i have sex.

I think i do have a crystal clear idea of what rape is and i need to as my current GF has a history of abuse/sexual abuse. I still don't really have to ask because it is incredibly obvious when she doesn't want sex (in which case in that situation i either just stop or will ask her and she says no).

However when we're both into i never stop to ask because it simply doesn't seem necessary.

Edit: This has nothing to do with just wanting sex. If that was my priority there is no way i would be with my current GF.

 

[soundahfekz]

I don't particularly like the insinuations that I hate men, that I think all men are rapists when all I'm doing is telling the truth and the reality of the situations that surround sex. Many women are raped simply because they aren't not truly engaged about how they feel enough during their sexual encounters. Do you think we should keep on saying "just go with the flow" given the numbers or that more men should be actively seeking consent?

I'm just calling it like I see it Devo. You date Timedog or whatever, so it's fairly obvious you don't hate men.

No one is that dumb, or ignorant enough to cross that line unless intending to do so regardless of the justification they provide after the fact. Sex is instinctual and consent is provided through body language and cues every second of every day without verbal consent, without established relationship, without it being rape.

Furthermore, this continues to be about MEN. Why? I've yet to see one acknowledgement or post encouraging women to be asking for the same consent.

Guys are just in here trying to get meaningful advice and the last few pages have turned into boogeymaning the shit out of them with a scenario they're highly unlikely to be in.

 

[GOLD5]

There's this one girl who I met in college a year or two ago. Got her numbers but nothing more than that. A few weeks ago I saw her at the store, said hi, and smiled.

Now she keeps texting me and asking me generic questions about how or what I'm doing. I always say hey lets get together on so-and-so or hey are you free on so-and-so and I always get a "I'll let you know if I can!" She never can. I swear this has happened four or five times.

She's always the one to text me first.

You're her back up activity, sounds like.. Hope that one day her first choice persons for hanging out will be busy and maybe she'll go out with you then..

 

[Devolution]

I'm just calling it like I see it Devo. You date Timedog or whatever, so it's fairly obvious you don't hate men.

No one is that dumb, or ignorant enough to cross that line unless intending to do so regardless of the justification they provide after the fact. Sex is instinctual and consent is provided through body language and cues every second of every day without verbal consent, without established relationship, without it being rape.

Furthermore, this continues to be about MEN. Why? I've yet to see one acknowledgement or post encouraging women to be asking for the same consent.

Guys are just in here trying to get meaningful advice and the last few pages have turned into boogeymaning the shit out of them with a scenario they're highly unlikely to be in.

How many women actively posting in this thread need to be explained to them what consent means?

 

[heidern]

2. I was not expecting anything to happen beyond some hand-holding/kissing maybe. We had boundaries.

You set the boundaries and you didn't really stick to them. She may have initiated but you should have been more assertive in standing up for your boundaries. As it is, you ended up giving her mixed signals.

 

[CrushDance]

You set the boundaries and you didn't really stick to them. She may have initiated but you should have been more assertive in standing up for your boundaries. As it is, you ended up giving her mixed signals.

That's true I suppose. It's like I said though. Being in a situation like that is totally different from the way once imagines it in their head. I didn't want or was able to say "No. We discussed this." because I didn't want to push her away, but I guess I did that with the way I acted according to you guys.

W/e. I'm not going to follow up on her with this. I'll call her tomorrow morning and explain myself as best as I can and go our separate ways. This week has been too draining for me.

 

[soundahfekz]

How many women actively posting in this thread need to be explained to them what consent means?

You're implying that you seem to a ballpark figure. You tell me? In fact, tell me how many men need consent explained to them in this thread? That shit comes off as extra condescending.


Let's break it down a bit more:

How many men care, or want to hear shit from a feminist blog citing a reddit thread full of anonymous idiots?

Have you read any of the stories from the article you're citing? None of it applies here, and if it did, people would be banned because those ARE legit cases of rape and there's no way it would be conscionable to pass those scenarios off as ignorance.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

I don't particularly like the insinuations that I hate men, that I think all men are rapists when all I'm doing is telling the truth and the reality of the situations that surround sex. Many women are raped simply because they aren't not truly engaged about how they feel enough during their sexual encounters. Do you think we should keep on saying "just go with the flow" given the numbers or that more men should be actively seeking consent?

Why is it the man's responsibility to ask for consent from a woman who's perfectly capable of telling her partner her intentions? I don't see why it's the guy's fault when the girl isn't very clear. If a girl's scared of the consequences, she's going to say yes regardless. Even if she says yes, is that still considered consent? No, and it shouldn't be. So then you're left with a complete bastardization of the situation where the guy asks for consent, receives it, and still gets labeled a rapist.

I'm all for reducing rapes, but I think too much energy is invested in this "receive verbal consent" argument. If a woman is putting sexual advances on you and is willing to lie about it in a court of law, then wouldn't she lie about whether she said yes or no? I'm only assuming the lying part because I don't possibly see how someone can be (for example) grinding on you, helping you take off your clothes, not say anything when you're about to fuck her, and then not say "no" even after you penetrate her.

That's where the confusion lies. Everyone knows that if the girl's unconscious or obviously not into it, you shouldn't press the issue. Everyone knows that if she's kinda into it but obviously not 100% (like she's heavily making out with you but you get touchy and she pushes your hands away), you're playing with fire. The big question is whether you need to verbally ask for consent when she's definitely into it (i.e. when any reasonable person could expect sex to occur next like if she helps put on your condom). Would it help clarify things? Sure. Could it help cool things down? Definitely (although I'm not saying you shouldn't do it because it might cool things down). Is it necessary? It shouldn't be. Women can speak for themselves. If they're damaged and/or afraid, they're going to not be very aggressive. If they say no, stop. I'm not sure what world we live in where women are incapable of saying no.

 

[CrushDance]

You guys are confusing me. Aren't we(I say we as in both sexes) always supposed to ask for consent before going further? Or are you guys saying that if you're making out with someone that you just go with whatever you want? Honestly, this was my first time being "intimate" with someone and I was quite nervous since she kept dictating where my hands were.

The way I view it and still do is: If you're making out, just read the other persons body language and go with that. What one person does is okay and vice-versa.

 

[DY_nasty]

You're implying that you seem to a ballpark figure. You tell me? In fact, tell me how many men need consent explained to them in this thread? That shit comes off as extra condescending.


Let's break it down a bit more:

How many men care, or want to hear shit from a feminist blog citing a reddit thread full of anonymous idiots?

Have you read any of the stories from the article you're citing? None of it applies here, and if it did, people would be banned because those ARE legit cases of rape and there's no way it would be conscionable to pass those scenarios off as ignorance.

Did you just miss the last three pages? lmao

Why is it the man's responsibility to ask for consent from a woman who's perfectly capable of telling her partner her intentions? I don't see why it's the guy's fault when the girl isn't very clear. If a girl's scared of the consequences, she's going to say yes regardless. Even if she says yes, is that still considered consent? No, and it shouldn't be. So then you're left with a complete bastardization of the situation where the guy asks for consent, receives it, and still gets labeled a rapist.

I'm all for reducing rapes, but I think too much energy is invested in this "receive verbal consent" argument. If a woman is putting sexual advances on you and is willing to lie about it in a court of law, then wouldn't she lie about whether she said yes or no? I'm only assuming the lying part because I don't possibly see how someone can be (for example) grinding on you, helping you take off your clothes, not say anything when you're about to fuck her, and then not say "no" even after you penetrate her.

That's where the confusion lies. Everyone knows that if the girl's unconscious or obviously not into it, you shouldn't press the issue. Everyone knows that if she's kinda into it but obviously not 100% (like she's heavily making out with you but you get touchy and she pushes your hands away), you're playing with fire. The big question is whether you need to verbally ask for consent when she's definitely into it (i.e. when any reasonable person could expect sex to occur next like if she helps put on your condom). Would it help clarify things? Sure. Could it help cool things down? Definitely (although I'm not saying you shouldn't do it because it might cool things down). Is it necessary? It shouldn't be. Women can speak for themselves. If they're damaged and/or afraid, they're going to not be very aggressive. If they say no, stop. I'm not sure what world we live in where women are incapable of saying no.

consult the list. confusion is hard yo

 

[Mumei]

I like Devo overall and have nothing but respect for her and the majority of posters on the board. I do feel that in some ways she's let the desire to educate gaffers about women consume her to the point of being too slanted to compensate for being the gender minority on GAF. People don't even want to post in heated topics involving women and Devo because people are more apt to be banned when a mod sees the discussion, like they'll refrain here now. Let's just be real.

Ah, then I have misjudged why you were misreading her argument.

I think people fundamentally misjudge what happens in these topics. She comes to topics which are inherently controversial and in which people often say offensive things which could get themselves banned. They are not banned because she happens to be posting in it; they are banned because they happen to say things which are offensive enough (or break the ToS in some other way) that they are banned for it. These things would happen (and did happen) in these threads for years before she ever became a poster here. The most you could say for her presence is that she will occasionally engage with a poster who posts something mildly offensive, but not really ban worthy, and in the course of arguing reveals much more toxic and ugly beliefs - but that could have happened with anyone who took the time to engage that person.

People may stop posting because I have posted, though, yes. But I was reading it before I posted, so the only difference is that now people are aware.

I'm not sure why it's necessary to come to Devo's defense when she's more than capable of responding to my post own her own. Some of the guys in here will barely touch a woman when its desired, so it's extremely unlikely that they're going to be in a situation of a woman claiming rape because they didn't ask her specifically if she "wanted this dick". I understand the idea, it's the execution of said idea that doesn't sit right.

I was reading the thread, and you were misinterpreting what she was saying. Sometimes a different person can explain things in a different way that can make something click; that's all it was. I am not sure whether my attempt actually succeeded, mind you, because I don't think you mentioned that part of my post, but that was my intent in making the post.

Furthermore, this continues to be about MEN. Why? I've yet to see one acknowledgement or post encouraging women to be asking for the same consent.

While it is true that men also report having sex that they did not want to (for a variety of reasons, including overestimating how much sex other men are getting and a keeping up with the Joneses mentality), one thing that is not of particular concern is men being too physically intimidated to say no. This is why the discussion is about men and not women; women rarely have this level of physical advantage combined with a man who worries that she might become violent if he says no.

I would not suggest that this is impossible that such a scenario might arise, but it is such a vanishingly small proportion of what actually happens that it seems like nitpicking to demand to know why we aren't talking about the potential for women to rape men in this manner when the answer should be obvious: The vast majority of women simply couldn't expect to do that.

You're implying that you seem to a ballpark figure. You tell me? In fact, tell me how many men need consent explained to them in this thread? That shit comes off as extra condescending.

I really don't understand your hostility to having this discussion about consent. It is not condescending to have it when it is not true, as SmokeMaxX has it, that everyone knows that if she is unconscious or obviously not into it (or presumably drunk) or not into a 100% that you don't have consent. It is enough of a problem that in the UK there was PSA advertisement about the issue. It is unfortunate that we do not do more to teach young men about consent in the United States as well, but it is because of it that a significant portion of young men do not understand that forcing a woman to have sex is the same as raping a woman and a significant number do not realize that pressuring or intimidating a woman into having sex can be rape.

And again, I wish you would not see this discussion as an attack on men. When we have men in this topic explicitly saying, "Cooperation = consent," evidently there are men who do not understand the distinction between the two. I am unsure as to how you can decry the necessity of having the discussion while reading posts of people who do not understand this and knowing full well the likelihood that there are posters with similar views who are not posting.

I'm not sure what world we live in where women are incapable of saying no.

No one is suggesting that women are incapable of saying no, and indeed I would suspect in most cases a woman will feel comfortable saying no. And I also agree with you that there are men who possess the ability to read people and interpersonal skills to tell when someone is genuinely into it and when someone is just going through the motions. And I think as one becomes more experienced, perhaps it becomes less necessary even for the initially bumbling.

But I think that most men never consider the possibility of a person reacting to unwanted sexual advances by quietly acquiescing to it. Most men would probably imagine themselves forcefully saying no and at least making an attempt to fight off their assailant and cannot understand that reaction, because most men are not used to being in the sort of situation where they would be afraid to assert themselves or physically defend themselves for fear of sexual assault. This is simply a fact of differences in the perspectives of men and women due to differences in sexual politics and the relative size and strength of men and women, and these differences in perspective can be observed in children as early as third grade.

So the fact that the mere fact of her cooperation does not necessarily imply her consent is brought up merely to make men who might not have considered this reaction to unwanted advances, because it is assumed that these men are genuinely good people who do not want to inadvertently force someone to do something that they did not want to.

I really don't get the reaction from some posters that this implies some sort of low or base view of men. It takes an observable fact: At least some rapes happen because of this lack of awareness. It takes a positive assumption about men: Most men would not want to think they are doing this. And assumes that by telling them, men will be more likely to be proactive in making sure this doesn't happen, because it assumes that men are basically good. What is condescending or anti-male about this?

 

[AdventureRacing]

I don't see this as a man vs women issue and i never really picked up on that at all. I just think for the most part it's completely unnecessary.

 

[NeOak]

W/e. I'm not going to follow up on her with this. I'll call her tomorrow morning and explain myself as best as I can and go our separate ways. This week has been too draining for me.

Woah there buddy. Give it a few more days if you can so she come back on her own. Don't rush shit because people here actually derailed the thread.

 

[jimi_dini]

This is why the discussion is about men and not women; women rarely have this level of physical advantage combined with a man who worries that she might become violent if he says no.

Stupid question I guess, but how would then even be "yes" a clear consent. Maybe she is afraid to say no, so asking directly may also not be enough either.

 

[CrushDance]

Just got off the phone with her.

I told her that what happened in my room the other day shouldn't have ever happened and that we went too fast, too quick. She asked me what I was talking about and I told her that the way she reacted after we were done left me feeling guilty and that I'd done something wrong. I explained in detail that the way I/she behaved was perfectly fine and natural. That I did not do anything horrible by acting out my feelings for her and did not mean to hurt her by touching. My only intentions were to make her feel good and explore, if anything out of curiosity. She agreed on that and asked what I wanted to do. I told her that I couldn't view her ever again in the same way and touch her without that feeling of touch=bad lingering in my mind. That'd I'd never be fully comfortable touching her.

Then she said(Like most of us had guessed by her reaction) that she'd "dated" someone before and the guy had tried to force himself on her on their first date. She'd refused and he just groped her all over before leaving her to find a way home herself. I really felt bad for her and for a split second almost said that I wanted to take things slow. But then she dropped this bombshell on me:

"I know guys just want sex. The things we did yesterday, I didn't mind. You were very gentle, but I've always felt that I should speak for myself..."

"Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. And I don't want you to ever feel that I can do or say anything to you without your consent."

"This is not a reinforcement of that..."<---What.The.Fuck?!

So apparently this is now a real trip to guilt trip city or something. She went on to say that if there were a next time, that I can just do whatever I want to her since she really understands now that a guy will either leave her or attempt to force his way if she says no. I was just furious as hell but remained calm and reiterated that she should always speak up for herself and that not every guy wanted sex. She started crying, calling me a liar and saying that if all I wanted was sex, she would give it to me right now.

Oh.MY.GOD. I felt sick. I wanted to just insult the fuck out of her for pushing that angle on me when all I did was say that we went too fast and that it made me uncomfortable going forward with her based on her reaction. So I asked her this:

"Why are you crying? You started being physical first. Why did you bite me? The way you sat on me, bit me, everything you did; you never asked for permission. It just came naturally to you. We both talked about this and set what was off limits on our first date."

She kept sniffling and then just said: "You're really the most respectable and greatest guy that I've ever know. I'm sorry I ruined it...are you sure about this?"

"Yeah...I'm sorry"

"So...you don't want to see me any-more?"

"I can't. I wouldn't feel comfortable touching you. How can you be happy if I can't be physical with you honestly and from my very core? I shouldn't feel guilty touching you and showing affection."

"Okay. I'm sorry if I made you feel bad."

"You didn't do anything wrong. We just weren't ready. We both need more time to figure things out."

"Goodbye"

"Goodnight"

And that was it. I am so fucking glad this is over. Her insinuation that I just wanted to fuck her was absolutely maddening. After everything that I'd said to her and done(Or lack thereof). She truly felt that I wanted nothing but sex from her. I can't blame her though after reading some of the posts in this thread. A lot of guys are seriously fucked up in putting their balls over the girls feelings. I feel terribly bad knowing that she's probably sobbing her eyes out right now, but I really think this is for the best. Her comment about letting guys just use her though was a vicious thing to say and if it's any indication of what potential fights might be like with her, I don't want any part of it.

Woah there buddy. Give it a few more days if you can so she come back on her own. Don't rush shit because people here actually derailed the thread.

No. I can't deal with that shit. I'm still learning myself and having an attempted rape victim dumped at my feet is ludicrous. I care for her. I feel bad for her. But I can't feel bad for myself.

Edit: A good lesson from this though?: If she's over 20, very smart, very beautiful and has never had a boyfriend. Something is probably wrong. Now I'm going to go buy some doughnuts and sit in-front of my PC for a while :/

 

[NeOak]

No. I can't deal with that shit. I'm still learning myself and having an attempted rape victim of nothing else dumped at my feet is ludicrous. I care for her. I feel bad for her. But I can't feel bad for myself.

Fair enough. It's your choice man. That issue is something that she must deal with on her own.

 

[Kipe]

That girl is going to do something stupid.

Why didn't you tell her to see a psychiatrist?

 

[Devolution]

I'm sorry CD and I don't think it's on you to deal with it, so I think moving on would be best. The way she was talking and acting, I figured she'd been assaulted and wanted to assert some control, but got nervous and stressed out. She needs someone patient and experienced but first she needs to get some help about her trauma.

 

[Mumei]

Stupid question I guess, but how would then even be "yes" a clear consent. Maybe she is afraid to say no, so asking directly may also not be enough either.

I don't think it's a dumb question (and it was asked by other people); this is why I said that "making clear that you are okay with hearing no" is important. After all, if the reason that she might acquiesce out of fear is because she is worried that you will become violent if she resists or tries to stop you, wouldn't first asking her (thereby demonstrating that you are interested in her consent) and secondly communicating that you're okay with a no (even if you might be disappointed) should ameliorate most of that.

If she was still too intimidated in that situation to say no, I don't think you could be blamed for that.

And the revelation to CrushDance's story was a depressingly likely possibility from the beginning.

 

[NeOak]

Edit: A good lesson from this though?: If she's over 20, very smart, very beautiful and has never had a boyfriend. Something is probably wrong. Now I'm going to go buy some doughnuts and sit in-front of my PC for a while :/

She is just one of the most insecure girls on this quadrant of the milky way. That is what's really wrong.

Question: what will you do if she tries to contact you again?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Edit: A good lesson from this though?: If she's over 20, very smart, very beautiful and has never had a boyfriend. Something is probably wrong. Now I'm going to go buy some doughnuts and sit in-front of my PC for a while :/

This is the exact WRONG conclusion and lesson to take from this experience.

Lets flip it: 'If he's over 20, very smart, very nice, and has never had a girlfriend, something is PROBABLY wrong. '

Is that a fair statement to make due to your situation?

Also, try to stop analyzing and getting so deeply emotional. I realize this situation sucks and I realize that she is the first girl you have cared for a bit but bro, you come across like a dude who thinks he is sirsaveaho and you're not, and women don't want you to be.

She has issues, obviously. But again, you are way too emotionally invested in this situation imo.

 

[SpectreFire]

Am I wrong for not believing a single word CrushDance is saying?

 

[CrushDance]

She is just one of the most insecure girls on this quadrant of the milky way. That is what's really wrong.

Question: what will you do if she tries to contact you again?

I'll just politely tell her to stop.

This is the exact WRONG conclusion and lesson to take from this experience.

Lets flip it: 'If he's over 20, very smart, very nice, and has never had a girlfriend, something is PROBABLY wrong. '

Is that a fair statement to make due to your situation?

Also, try to stop analyzing and getting so deeply emotional. I realize this situation sucks and I realize that she is the first girl you have cared for a bit but bro, you come across like a dude who thinks he is sirsaveaho and you're not, and women don't want you to be.

She has issues, obviously. But again, you are way too emotionally invested in this situation imo.

Honestly I'm not feeling anything really at all apart from some anger and a little bit of boredom. This isn't the first time that I got close to a girl and things went crazy. It's just the farthest. I'm not sad or anything. I feel sorry for the girl.
Edit: But yes, I get what you're saying. I'm honestly kind of angry at myself for still being this "weak" and naive. I'm my own worst enemy ffs.

Am I wrong for not believing a single word CrushDance is saying?

I've been on GAF for quite a while now dude. I've read far worse.GAF literally saved my life once, so no. I could post screens from my phone of our texts or whatever but there are limits and I feel a lot of things I typed out are going far enough as it is. This thread specifically is for pure novices to get some help and move on.

If it's possible, an Admin can even check my login logs. I took a leave last year off GAF and the internet in general for 7 or 8 months and worked on myself after watching other people make great changes. Getting in shape especially was a big deal for me and I look great now as people often tell me. There's no need for someone to lie about failure anyway, that doesn't even make any sense. "I lost!"....good job?....Perhaps I am still a little naive and idealistic in the way I view people and more-so women, but I'm still making progress. Lots of people use the internet as a means to vent and to discuss things that they'd have trouble doing so in real life or simply because they have few people to turn to. I don't blame you for not believing, but I can only assure you that it is the truth.