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[Zen_Arcade]

Huh!? We just talked about this earlier how the good books aren't being bought.

Mid nighter, omega men, and ect. Funny thing is it is not just a DC thing but a marvel thing as well.

Vision is one of the best books right now but has the lowest sales :/

Also I think people are holding off on buying some DC books since the rebirth is coming.

Marvel has a lot more good books than DC in general though. Marvel is just putting good people on both huge and smaller characters. Of course part of it has to do with overstuffing the shelves with content, but it's pretty clear why even a lot of Marvels midtier stuff is doing better than DC's.

So by this logic Image is even more mediocre since they have like a third of DC's marketshare.

No, because Image doesnt have a ton of decades old characters that people come to their publishing house for in the first place.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Lol he won't listen only bring up more irrelevant stuff.

I've brought up no irrelevant stuff, but you knew that already. I literally posted last month's best sellers and showed you that DC puts out a LOT of specials and #1s that outsell their regular line.

We're arguing gradients, but you seem to think a snarky, dismissive reply makes your point. It doesn't, FYI.

 

[TheFlow]

I've brought up no irrelevant stuff, but you knew that already. I literally posted last month's best sellers and showed you that DC puts out a LOT of specials and #1s that outsell their regular line.

We're arguing gradients, but you seem to think a snarky, dismissive reply makes your point. It doesn't, FYI.

This thread is about rebirth but looks like you didn't know that.

 

[TheFlow]

Marvel has a lot more good books than DC in general though. Marvel is just putting good people on both huge and smaller characters. Of course part of it has to do with overstuffing the shelves with content, but it's pretty clear why even a lot of Marvels midtier stuff is doing better than DC's.

No, because Image doesnt have a ton of decades old characters that people come to their publishing house for in the first place.

Marvel has more books in general though so your whole post is pointless.

Coming to this thread to claim marvel>DC is dumb because this thread is a celebration of new teams and books from DC. :3 but carry on this mad rant

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Like hell they don't, lol. Midnighter and The Omega Men barely scraping by, despite being two of the best books on shelves, and the latter having Kyle Rayner as a protag!

I know zero people who care about Midnighter in the first place. His longest series before this one was like what, 20 some issues? I would say the problem with that title is that the character has so few fans in the first place.

Marvel has more books in general though so your whole post is pointless.

Coming to this thread to claim marvel>DC is dumb because this thread is a celebration of new teams and books from DC. :3 but carry on this mad rant

I'm not claiming Marvel is better than DC. I like DC a lot, it's just that a lot of their characters have not been given interesting creative teams the past few years.

Trying to paint this as some fanboy argument is just asinine. DC is obviously losing mindshare for a reason. It's not just random coincidence. Part of it is because of Marvels movie presence, but I think it's pretty obvious that Marvel has also eaten up a lot of the best artists/writers in the business at the moment.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Marvel has a lot more good books than DC in general though. Marvel is just putting good people on both huge and smaller characters. Of course part of it has to do with overstuffing the shelves with content, but it's pretty clear why even a lot of Marvels midtier stuff is doing better than DC's.

No, because Image doesnt have a ton of decades old characters that people come to their publishing house for in the first place.

A lot of their midtier stuff isn't doing all that much better, and the stuff that is is rarely distinguished by its quality.

I mean, look at the rankings: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html

Vision at 19k, Spider-Gwen at 61k.

 

[Tragicomedy]

This thread is about rebirth but looks like you didn't know that.

I'll help you avoid substituting your bias for what I actually wrote. I've been talking about DC. You know, DC, the publisher doing Rebirth. You can do a search for my posts in this thread, it's quite easy.

Then today, Poodle responds to someone saying they don't like the new logo with this:

Repeated and unnecessary #1s is a Marvel play.

Which I thought was silly, since that's exactly how I think Rebirth will play out. So I wrote this:

Poodle, even as the resident DC apologist, come on! This is exactly what is happening with all the Rebirth books.

That logo is trash. Not that it has anything to do with the actual books. I'm hoping those are good.

Now read with me here. I wrote that DC is also rerolling their books into #1s to spur sales. You can argue that you don't think it's unnecessary, opinions and all that. I think it is. Then I wrote that I think the new logo is trash, but I still have hopes the books are good.

But you knew all that already, before you launched into DC Defense Force mode. I...didn't attack DC?

And then my very next post:

I'm aware and fault Marvel for the #1 BOOK SALES HYPE stuff all the time. Just saying that this could easily be construed as an unnecessary reset to #1s.

DC sales are in the toilet month after month, so I'm all for anything that will help them out. I'll be in line to pick up the first volley of Rebirth books.

Critical of the marvel #1 game. Critical of the Rebirth #1 game. Hyped for the books. The fact that you are on the defensive, or saying I'm posting irrelevant stuff is...irrelevant.

 

[TheFlow]

Haven't read DC book in 2 years currently reading 10 marvel books, made 3 marvel threads, and rocking a black panther avy yes I am the DC defense force.

Just calling out the bs of tragic and other shitposting that spewed from a logo change and is now a marvel vs DC debate.

Which wouldn't be a big deal if all of the discussion before the logo change pic was stuff actually related to Rebirth.

But carry on angry old man rants about DC grasping for air lol

 

[Ross61]

I really hope we get a new writer on Justice League after the first arc or so. With a the crack Geoff Johns is sprinkling on it, going the Bryan Hitch is just terrible.

I wonder what will come out of that DC Writers Workshop. Vita Ayala, a black women, is going to work on 2 Suicide Squad focusing on Amanda Waller. Micheal Moreci and Chris Sebela will be writing issues focusing on Boomerang and Killer Croc respectively.

If DC really tries to actively diversify their book with great creative teams behind them, then I think they can increase their sales in the long run. Marketing will also be key.

 

[TheFlow]

I really hope we get a new writer on Justice League after the first arc or so. With a the crack Geoff Johns is sprinkling on it, going the Bryan Hitch is just terrible.

I wonder what will come out of that DC Writers Workshop. Vita Ayala, a black women, is going to work on 2 Suicide Squad focusing on Amanda Waller. Micheal Moreci and Chris Sebela will be writing issues focusing on Boomerang and Killer Croc respectively.

If DC really tries to actively diversify their book with great creative teams behind them, then I think they can increase their sales in the long run. Marketing will also be key.

Amen. I think marketing is key. They have the talent, and relaunch. Just gotta make sure the mainstream knows about it

 

[Poodlestrike]

I'll help you avoid substituting your bias for what I actually wrote. I've been talking about DC. You know, DC, the publisher doing Rebirth. You can do a search for my posts in this thread, it's quite easy.

Then today, Poodle responds to someone saying they don't like the new logo with this:



Which I thought was silly, since that's exactly how I think Rebirth will play out. So I wrote this:



Now read with me here. I wrote that DC is also rerolling their books into #1s to spur sales. You can argue that you don't think it's unnecessary, opinions and all that. I think it is. Then I wrote that I think the new logo is trash, but I still have hopes the books are good.

But you knew all that already, before you launched into DC Defense Force mode. I...didn't attack DC?

Bro, c'mon. This is the post I responded to:

Better than their last logo, still bad.

DC just reeks of insecurity and lack of vision. Try random shit see if it works then restart everything because people buy #1 issues.

Sad.

Talking about how the logo (the logo!) represents how, amongst other things, that DC just keeps on restarting everything at #1. That's what started this thing. Now we're talking about past sales and how clearly Marvel making bank means that DC is doomed and they're panicking and how this is just one more example of panic and ye gods this is dumb.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

A lot of their midtier stuff isn't doing all that much better, and the stuff that is is rarely distinguished by its quality.

I mean, look at the rankings: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html

Vision at 19k, Spider-Gwen at 61k.

I must be crazy, because that looks a lot more like the Marvel mid tier books are doing pretty well comparatively.

Black Widow is like three spots behind Flash.
Mockingbird is doing better than Green Lantern. A Karnak book is doing better than Teen Titans and Aquaman. I can't even count how many of those titles I'm surprised to see over a Catwoman book.

 

[TheFlow]

I must be crazy, because that looks a lot more like the Marvel mid tier books are doing pretty well comparatively.

Black Widow is like three spots behind Flash.
Mockingbird is doing better than Green Lantern. A Karnak book is doing better than Teen Titans and Aquaman. I can't even count how many of those titles I'm surprised to see over a Catwoman book.

Context is key here. for example flash, green lantern, and teen titans are super meh(that is me putting it lightly). Second who is going to be rushing to be buying these books when the relaunch was announced a month before.

I am not sure how much you actually know about what books are hot right now outside of a sales chart bit comic-gaf will bless you with wisdom my child :3

 

[Poodlestrike]

I must be crazy, because that looks a lot more like the Marvel mid tier books are doing pretty well comparatively.

Black Widow is like three spots behind Flash.
Mockingbird is doing better than Green Lantern. A Karnak book is doing better than Teen Titans and Aquaman. I can't even count how many of those titles I'm surprised to see over a Catwoman book.

I mean...

Look, my point here is not that DC doesn't have some dud books, and that those dud books are selling poorly. But on the other hand, claiming that there's a clear correlation between sales and quality is just nuts, because holy shit look at all the incredible books hanging out in near-cancellation territory!

 

[jph139]

I mean, you gotta feel for DC. Call them unfocused, but when Marvel is dominating mindshare in pretty much every medium (except possibly TV and... console gaming, I guess?) while DC's every attempt to reinvigorate has flopped.

I give them credit for sticking with the New 52 for so long - I remember a lot of negativity around its launch and that's more or less clung to that universe to this day. DCYou played all the right notes and still flopped.

At the end of the day, though, I think it is mostly quality. If you ask for DC recommendations for the past few years, the list is pretty short. Other than Snyder Batman I struggle to think of anything that's truly "must read."

Rebirth has a lot of buzz and some solid writers, though, so this one might stick. Who knows. But honestly, I've already forgotten 90% of the new books launching. Outside of the Trinity things are still a bit dire.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Haven't read DC book in 2 years currently reading 10 marvel books, made 3 marvel threads, and rocking a black panther avy yes I am the DC defense force.

Just calling out the bs of tragic and other shitposting that spewed from a logo change and is now a marvel vs DC debate.

Which wouldn't be a big deal if all of the discussion before the logo change pic was stuff actually related to Rebirth.

But carry on angry old man rants about DC grasping for air lol

Except I just pointed out very clearly that I didn't shit post. Not one time. And zero angry rants.

I mean, at this point you're literally just ignoring what I've written and working off some fictional conversation in your head. It's rather sad.

Bro, c'mon. This is the post I responded to:

Talking about how the logo (the logo!) represents how, amongst other things, that DC just keeps on restarting everything at #1. That's what started this thing. Now we're talking about past sales and how clearly Marvel making bank means that DC is doomed and they're panicking and how this is just one more example of panic and ye gods this is dumb.

I agree with you, that post seems very reactionary. I think the logo sucks, too, but it's whatever. The books being quality is all that matters.

 

[TheFlow]

Except I just pointed out very clearly that I didn't shit post. Not one time. And zero angry rants.

I mean, at this point you're literally just ignoring what I've written and working off some fictional conversation in your head. It's rather sad.



I agree with you, that post seems very reactionary. I think the logo sucks, too, but it's whatever. The books being quality is all that matters.

Context is key here. Saying your not shit posting doesn't mean you aren't . You are trying to have a serious discussion about marvel vs DC sales and adding fuel to the fire of this weird " DC is struggling" agenda when this is not what the thread is about. We asked several times for you guys to get back on topic but instead you play dumb :3

 

[Lashley]

Can we please not get this thread closed before Rebirth even launches?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I mean...

Look, my point here is not that DC doesn't have some dud books, and that those dud books are selling poorly. But on the other hand, claiming that there's a clear correlation between sales and quality is just nuts, because holy shit look at all the incredible books hanging out in near-cancellation territory!

For the biggest names I think it's pretty clear that that's the issue. I didnt say it was just an issue of quality. It's a mixture of quality and them not placing it on their biggest names. A lot of Marvels B-Tier characters have bigger sales than some of the biggest DC characters out there. Than you have people arguing with me admitting that the books for those big name characters aren't very good. Which kind of just proves exactly what I'm saying.

People bring up characters like Midnighter, which would have been a failure to me no matter the quality by just looking at the history of Midnighter books. They never last. He's simply not a character that can carry a book on his own, especially in today's market where the sheer amount of books is huge. Same thing with the Vision. I love the Vision, but he's never been a character that carries a book on his own. The closest to a solo success that he's been is his book with SW.

So yeah, it's obviously not JUST the quality of the books that's a factor, but it's pretty clear that it's a huge factor.

 

[TheFlow]

Can we please not get this thread closed before Rebirth even launches?

Ok. I am done discussing anything that doesn't pertain to rebirth here

 

[Poodlestrike]

Can we please not get this thread closed before Rebirth even launches?

Agreed. Let's all try and keep the sales-talk to a minimum, yeah?

Flow, apologize to Zen

 

[TheFlow]

Agreed. Let's all try and keep the sales-talk to a minimum, yeah?

Flow, apologize to Zen

Lol fine.

 

[Rooster12]

At the end of the day, though, I think it is mostly quality. If you ask for DC recommendations for the past few years, the list is pretty short. Other than Snyder Batman I struggle to think of anything that's truly "must read."

Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Animal Man, Justice League, Dial H for Hero, Lemire's Green Arrow, Batman Incorporated etc..

There's quite a few

 

[Father_Brain]

Because I clearly have no life: for comparison, looking at the last few full years of sales:

2013
Top 20: 7 Marvel, 12 DC (6 Marvel, 3 DC in top 10)
Top 100: 48 Marvel, 49 DC

2014
Top 20: 14 Marvel, 5 DC (all Batman; no DC books in top 10)
Top 100: 53 Marvel, 43 DC

2015, ignoring all Marvel Star Wars books:


Top 20: 16 Marvel, 2 DC (both DKIII, only one in top 10)
Top 100: 61 Marvel, 32 DC

I'm not going to take the time to see what market share would look like for last year with all Star Wars books removed, so this is an incomplete picture, but it looks like things were significantly more lopsided in Marvel's favor compared to 2014 or 2013 even without the Star Wars books.

 

[TheFlow]

Because I clearly have no life: for comparison, looking at the last few full years of sales:

2013
Top 20: 7 Marvel, 12 DC (6 Marvel, 3 DC in top 10)
Top 100: 48 Marvel, 49 DC

2014
Top 20: 14 Marvel, 5 DC (all Batman; no DC books in top 10)
Top 100: 53 Marvel, 43 DC

2015, ignoring all Marvel Star Wars books:


Top 20: 16 Marvel, 2 DC (both DKIII, only one in top 10)
Top 100: 61 Marvel, 32 DC

I'm not going to take the time to see what market share would look like for last year with all Star Wars books removed, so this is an incomplete picture, but it looks like things were significantly more lopsided in Marvel's favor compared to 2014 or 2013 even without the Star Wars books.

Dude what are you doing. We finally got back on topic and here you come with this stuff.

 

[Lashley]

Because I clearly have no life: for comparison, looking at the last few full years of sales:

2013
Top 20: 7 Marvel, 12 DC (6 Marvel, 3 DC in top 10)
Top 100: 48 Marvel, 49 DC

2014
Top 20: 14 Marvel, 5 DC (all Batman; no DC books in top 10)
Top 100: 53 Marvel, 43 DC

2015, ignoring all Marvel Star Wars books:


Top 20: 16 Marvel, 2 DC (both DKIII, only one in top 10)
Top 100: 61 Marvel, 32 DC

I'm not going to take the time to see what market share would look like for last year with all Star Wars books removed, so this is an incomplete picture, but it looks like things were significantly more lopsided in Marvel's favor compared to 2014 or 2013 even without the Star Wars books.

 

[tim1138]

It'd be cool if all the sales talk and fanboy wars went back to the ComicsGAF OT, and this could stay a thread about Rebirth.

 

[jph139]

Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Animal Man, Justice League, Dial H for Hero, Lemire's Green Arrow, Batman Incorporated etc..

There's quite a few

Could honestly just be ignorance on my part, but of those, what I've heard:

Animal Man - really good
Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Justice League - pretty decent, okay-to-solid
Dial H for Hero, Green Arrow - literally have not heard mentioned

Also isn't Batman Incorporated pre-reboot? Or was that one of those weird books that carried over from the reboot?

I guess what I'm saying is, even if there were some great books there, most of what was circulated was "Nu52 sux," and that clung a lot tighter than "hey there's actually some good stuff there." If Rebirth can stick the landing with a bunch of books that are good-to-great on Day One - not even necessarily a majority if the rest are just okay - I think they'll be in a pretty good place.

With King, Snyder, and Rucka headlining some big name books, I've personally got a good feeling. But who knows at this point.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Could honestly just be ignorance on my part, but of those, what I've heard:

Animal Man - really good
Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Justice League - pretty decent, okay-to-solid
Dial H for Hero, Green Arrow - literally have not heard mentioned

Also isn't Batman Incorporated pre-reboot? Or was that one of those weird books that carried over from the reboot?

I guess what I'm saying is, even if there were some great books there, most of what was circulated was "Nu52 sux," and that clung a lot tighter than "hey there's actually some good stuff there." If Rebirth can stick the landing with a bunch of books that are good-to-great on Day One - not even necessarily a majority if the rest are just okay - I think they'll be in a pretty good place.

With King, Snyder, and Rucka headlining some big name books, I've personally got a good feeling. But who knows at this point.

GA is pretty widely acclaimed. It's worth checking out if for no other reason than the astonishing job Sorrentino does on art.

Dial H is... weird. Really, really, really weird. Like, allllllllll the way weird. But quite good.

Batman Inc. carried over, yeah.

The problem is less that DC hasn't had good books, it's that other than Batman, their big names haven't had what people generally think of as great runs. Flash hasn't done well since the New 52, GL's been weak since Johns started taking on editing duties and abysmal since he left, Superman hasn't really had anything to point to other than maybe early Morrison AC. Azzarello's Wondy is well-regarded, but not really what you'd think of as remotely conventional, and the character hasn't really had much going for them since (other than Legend of Wonder Woman, which is fantastic, but digital first). That's most of their non-Batman big names right there. But they absolutely have had amazing runs in their smaller properties.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Its amazing how many people on the internet just can not accept anyone holding a positive viewpoint on DC comics. No one here bashed Marvel, or any other company. But DC puts out a new, terrible logo (A LOGO!) and a dozen people feel the need to beat their chests about their superior comic fandom. Couldn't this be done in the OT thread, or one of the dozens of Marvel threads?

 

[thehypocrite]

Humans with their fucking tribes, like what you like and live on.

 

[shingi70]

Don't forget some of the best books.

 

[TheFlow]

Animal man and swamp thing were my favorites. So good

 

[Poodlestrike]

Don't forget some of the best books.

Holy shit, I'd forgotten that they gave Penguin a title. Trippy.

I, Vampire was great, OMAC was mediocre.gif.

 

[shingi70]

Holy shit, I'd forgotten that they gave Penguin a title. Trippy.

I, Vampire was great, OMAC was mediocre.gif.

Poodle man, look down into your heart of hearts.

It was Kirbyesque awesomness.

\
It was too good for this beautiful world.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Not that I want to get swept up in the argument, I dont really care about the financial successes of either publisher as long as they can both stay relatively heathy and keep doing what they do, but... It seems pretty obvious to me that the main drive for Marvels success recently has been the reach of the movies. Those things are practically giant commercials. They bring in new readers, and bring back old ones, like nothing else ever has. Not just for Marvel but Star Wars as well. You can throw Darkhorse into the comparison too if you want but you cant ignore that the new movies and the offical canon label play a big role in those comics success. Warner Bros fumbling the ball on their DCCU hasnt been helping DC much. So you could practically sum it up and say that Marvel have had a massive advertising campaign while DC havent advertising shit.

Anyways, each of us have preferences, but if we let them, they can make us fall into meaningless "my team is better" arguments where all kinds of logic fly. And those argument usually warp into a debate on how important financial success is in defining who is better.

Who is better is wholly subjective to the individual. Im a DC guy primarily (and Image) but im not gonna pretend they arent getting their butts kicked financially by Marvel right now, nor am I bitter about it. DC characters are what I care about. DC are making some great comics and continuity directions for me to enjoy, and some bad ones for me to criticize, but the mistakes seem to be teaching them some valuable lessons that Rebirth looks hopeful to right. Thats all that Im focused on. Thats the point of this thread. I feel no need to compare the two companies, they have very different approaches to their characters and continuity. Apples and Oranges.

 

[NeonZ]

I must be crazy, because that looks a lot more like the Marvel mid tier books are doing pretty well comparatively.

Black Widow is like three spots behind Flash.
Mockingbird is doing better than Green Lantern. A Karnak book is doing better than Teen Titans and Aquaman. I can't even count how many of those titles I'm surprised to see over a Catwoman book.

Mockingbird is also in issue #2, which generally still has big drops and isn't a stable number. You also seem to be overlooking the failure of the DCYou initiative. The problem wasn't only the new books failing - several mid tier books came out of it with lower sales than before - like Grayson, which in month 2 was already bellow its pre-Convergence numbers. And that was a book that had no direction changes related to DCYou, it just continued like before. The two month break seemingly resulted in many people dropping DC books and most didn't seem to pick replacements.

That's why you see now DC already going with a new rebranding. DCYou not only failed to attract new readers, it was basically poisonous to their overall line up if the book wasn't Batman or Harley.

 

[Mudcrab]

If there's one thing I learned from reading this thread it's that I fucked up by not reading Omega Men.

Do we have a date for a trade yet?

 

[tim1138]

OMAC was a lot of fun, Didio and Giffen did a great job channeling Kirby, much better than they did with the Forever People.

My N52 top ten in no particular order:

Animal Man
The first 40 issues of Aquaman
The first 20 issues of Green Lantern
Justice League
Batman Incorporated
Demon Knights
Vibe
Justice League 3000
Lemire/Sorrentino Green Arrow
Multiversity

I didn't include the DCYou books or else Midnighter and Omega Men would be in there

 

[Poodlestrike]

If there's one thing I learned from reading this thread it's that I fucked up by not reading Omega Men.

Do we have a date for a trade yet?

Probably not before the Fall. It's not quite over yet, and DC's trade turnaround is loooooong.

 

[tim1138]

If there's one thing I learned from reading this thread it's that I fucked up by not reading Omega Men.

Do we have a date for a trade yet?

Probably not before the Fall. It's not quite over yet, and DC's trade turnaround is loooooong.

August 30th on Amazon, so a week earlier in IST and in comic shops

 

[Rooster12]

Damn, completely forgot about Multiversity.

Also heard Snyder's Batman Eternal was good, haven't read any of it though.

Superman Unchained was pretty good too.

Winnick's Catwoman was superb before Noncenti sucked the life out of everything.

I guess what I'm saying is, even if there were some great books there, most of what was circulated was "Nu52 sux," and that clung a lot tighter than "hey there's actually some good stuff there."

You can thank Scott Lobdell and Ann Noncenti for that.

They single-handedly destroyed 3 or 4 DC properties. Only Green Arrow recovered.

 

[Poodlestrike]

August 30th on Amazon, so a week earlier in IST and in comic shops

2 days off!

 

[Poodlestrike]

Damn, completely forgot about Multiversity.

Also heard Snyder's Batman Eternal was good, haven't read any of it though.

Superman Unchained was pretty good too.

Winnick's Catwoman was superb before Noncenti sucked the life out of everything.

Batman Eternal was... I actually really enjoyed it for the most part, but towards the end the constant "but that's not the REALLLLLLLL villain" twists got a bit much. Still some very good stuff.

Batman & Robin Eternal doesn't hit its highs, but also doesn't drop the ball quite as hard.

Catwoman actually got good again for a minute because it took her new status quo from Eternal and ran with it, but then they dropped that and it went back to mediocrity, which is still a step up from Nocenti.

edit: fuck, meant to edit this back in

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Damn, completely forgot about Multiversity.

Also heard Snyder's Batman Eternal was good, haven't read any of it though.

Superman Unchained was pretty good too.

Winnick's Catwoman was superb before Noncenti sucked the life out of everything.



You can thank Scott Lobdell and Ann Noncenti for that.

They single-handedly destroyed 3 or 4 DC properties. Only Green Arrow recovered.

Superman and Teen Titans were already a mess before Lobdell. Red Hood got an upgrade. That ain't his fault writers before couldn't pick up the pace. Editors shouldn't have been fuckin with his stuff.

 

[Poodlestrike]

It's still so weird to me that when they had Tynion take over Red Hood for a minute, the book got SUBSTANTIALLY worse. Like, I actually like Lobdell RH, but I'll freely admit he's not a particularly good writer, and Tynion's probably better. But holy shiat, that was a disastrous couple of issues, and not from like a plotting issue, but it's just straight up poorly written.

 

[Ross61]

Rebirth One Shot next week, I'm excited!

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It's still so weird to me that when they had Tynion take over Red Hood for a minute, the book got SUBSTANTIALLY worse. Like, I actually like Lobdell RH, but I'll freely admit he's not a particularly good writer, and Tynion's probably better. But holy shiat, that was a disastrous couple of issues, and not from like a plotting issue, but it's just straight up poorly written.

I remember people thought he was gonna be the next Snyder, and then his 15 minutes of fame slowly went away when he was writing Talon. Now he's just alright.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Not that I want to get swept up in the argument, I dont really care about the financial successes of either publisher as long as they can both stay relatively heathy and keep doing what they do, but... It seems pretty obvious to me that the main drive for Marvels success recently has been the reach of the movies. Those things are practically giant commercials. They bring in new readers, and bring back old ones, like nothing else ever has. Not just for Marvel but Star Wars as well. You can throw Darkhorse into the comparison too if you want but you cant ignore that the new movies and the offical canon label play a big role in those comics success. Warner Bros fumbling the ball on their DCCU hasnt been helping DC much. So you could practically sum it up and say that Marvel have had a massive advertising campaign while DC havent advertising shit.

Anyways, each of us have preferences, but if we let them, they can make us fall into meaningless "my team is better" arguments where all kinds of logic fly. And those argument usually warp into a debate on how important financial success is in defining who is better.

Who is better is wholly subjective to the individual. Im a DC guy primarily (and Image) but im not gonna pretend they arent getting their butts kicked financially by Marvel right now, nor am I bitter about it. DC characters are what I care about. DC are making some great comics and continuity directions for me to enjoy, and some bad ones for me to criticize, but the mistakes seem to be teaching them some valuable lessons that Rebirth looks hopeful to right. Thats all that Im focused on. Thats the point of this thread. I feel no need to compare the two companies, they have very different approaches to their characters and continuity. Apples and Oranges.

I think you're right to emphasize the importance of the movies. Mid-tier books are a success with 60,000 sales and a failure with <30,000, which tells us that most comics must be very marginally profitable. I suspect that a successful comic book movie nets Marvel or DC more than 20 30,000 sellers will over the course of a year. It will be interesting to see whether that begins to influence their decision making regarding what to make, what to keep running, etc...

If, for example, DC has a long term plan for Starfire or Bumblebee would they keep a book running if the sales would otherwise not support it? I don't know the answer to that, but it's got to be part of the decision making process. A good comic, particularly one that helps build lesser known characters, can help lead to movies or shows which is where the real money is now.

More on topic - I can't wait for Blue Beetle. Love me some Ted Kord and I've grown to like Jaime thanks to Young Justice (an amazing show) which I watched recently. Keith Giffen, while not as good as he used to be, is one of my all time favorites as well.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I remember people thought he was gonna be the next Snyder, and then his 15 minutes of fame slowly went away when he was writing Talon. Now he's just alright.

I'm hopeful for his Detective run but Tynion seems like a writer who is more comfortable with creator owned stuff. The characters in The Woods feel much more 'real' than in his work for hire stuff. Like he owns them and isn't playing with someone else's toys.