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[perineumlick]

Exactly, if we want bosses that dont have 20,000 HP bars, then Gallahorn has to go and they need to tone down all rocket launchers which makes such fights trivial.

A nice boss fight is a few minutes, sponge is > 10 minutes and trivial is < 1 minute.

Gally made too much trivial, and it was homing and wolfpack = no effort or skill other than using a synth. May as well just give players a nuke..whats the point in playing ?

People keep saying that Ghorn makes things trivial...aside from burns how is it making end content trivial? It still takes some groups hours to beat Skolas, even when he had a burn. Raids aren't being completed in 5 minutes. The high level stuff still takes communication and team work to complete. I'm just not seeing the need for a Ghorn nerf; the mechanics of the boss fights should be the focus. Players will always find ways to cheese hard fights regardless, so just nerfing guns is not always the answer. The raids are a great example of mechanics making encounters interesting regardless of weapons.

 

[Ken]

Basically the only exotics worth a damn have been nerfed and depending on how ghorn and Ice breaker end up they may be entirely pointless.

Black hammer is now not even worth getting.

Eh, Ice Breaker is fine IMO? It was never a burst damage weapon after the initial salvo. Feels like they made it so if you really wanted to play the slow burns/camp you'll need a bit more patience than before?

 

[Ragged Gloves]

Oh... I must be misunderstanding why everyone was losing their shit over trying to get to Mercury for the new Trials Weapons.

I assumed it was for the crazy good weapons.

Or Hopscotch Pilgrime.
Or The Ash Factory.
Or BTRD-345.
Or Matador 64.
Or Party Crasher +1

You want me to keep going?

I do. What about upcoming subclasses and new gear like the Ram? Seeing a huge amount of Warlocks in pvp and what little I saw of their Omnigal like skill coming in TTk, look out.

 

[TsuWave]

These changes are excellent, and long overdue. I don't think the point of the game was to have two or three guns that you "must" use to be successful (Thorn, Ice Breaker, Horn) or be underpowered without them.

Just a shame I won't be using them much as TTK is so expensive.

i think people are falsely equating a weapon making tedious/long drawn encounters shorter, with "must" use to succeed weapons. there is no activity in destiny where a weapon is an absolute must. the pve nerfs are bad and come off as a shortcut taken by bungie.

also can't wait til 2 or 3 months after TTK is out for people to complain about "x pulse rifle" needing a nerf in pvp. this seems like it is going to be the never ending cycle of this game.

 

[border]

This is what happens when weapon balancing affects PVP. They should be separate weapon pools.

Destiny keeps making mistakes WoW did like fucking 10 years ago. Did any of the devs even play an MMO before?

Other than the handcannons/shotguns though, none of the most contentious nerfs have much of anything to do with PVP.

And if you went and played WoW today, I imagine their PVP still has all kinds of balance problems and flavor-of-the-month builds/classes. There's really no way to have permanent balance when every expansion has all kinds of new weapons and abilities. Even when the weapons and abilities remain static it's difficult for developers to get PVP balance locked down.

 

[NullPointer]

Other than the handcannons/shotguns though, none of the most contentious nerfs have much of anything to do with PVP.

That's one hell of a qualifier there.

 

[SoapNickTavish]

Instead of designing better enemy and boss encounters, they nerf the guns that alleviated some of the grinding and monotony that this game is very guilty of.

Cool.

 

[geordiemp]

People keep saying that Ghorn makes things trivial...aside from burns how is it making end content trivial? It still takes some groups hours to beat Skolas, even when he had a burn. Raids aren't being completed in 5 minutes. The high level stuff still takes communication and team work to complete. I'm just not seeing the need for a Ghorn nerf; the mechanics of the boss fights should be the focus. Players will always find ways to cheese hard fights regardless, so just nerfing guns is not always the answer. The raids are a great example of mechanics making encounters interesting regardless of weapons.

Your right, people can speed run solo CROTA in 16 minutes....That is absolute hours...

I wonder how he did it....? Gally perhaps...it needs to go and people need to deal with it.

Instead of designing better enemy and boss encounters, they nerf the guns that alleviated some of the grinding and monotony that this game is very guilty of.

Cool.

Destiny trolls are cooler...

 

[NullPointer]

Instead of designing better enemy and boss encounters, they nerf the guns that alleviated some of the grinding and monotony that this game is very guilty of.

Cool.

Its possible they're doing both. Haven't Bungie talked abut changing some existing encounters when TTK hits?

 

[border]

Instead of designing better enemy and boss encounters, they nerf the guns that alleviated some of the grinding and monotony that this game is very guilty of.

Cool.

I think it's more that they do not want to have to design fights around the assumption that everyone has a Gjallarhorn, because that means everyone who does not have one gets hosed. And if they design fights that ignore the existence of the Gjally, then Gjally users can steamroll them.

This pretty effectively solves the issue, though at a significant cost of player goodwill. The only other option would be to introduce a more powerful heavy weapon, or to sunset the Gjallarhorn by making it impossible to upgrade.

 

[Meffer]

I agree that bosses have too much HP. Crota had a interesting design to fighting him. They need to design bosses that are fun not frustrating.

 

[SoapNickTavish]

Destiny trolls are cooler...

I have 3 max level characters, all the content released so far, all the guns mentioned in the nerf as well (except for Fatebringer which I never got and Hawkmoon since I'm on the Xbox One), along with close to a thousand hours logged into the game.

You do realize that you can like a game and still criticize it, right?

But ok, sure, I'm a troll.

 

[Ophelion]

I agree that bosses have too much HP. Crota had a interesting design to fighting him. They need to design bosses that are fun not frustrating.

I don't mind the raid boss fights, but I feel this very strongly about the PoE bosses. Not one of them I've fought have been any fun. All of them are frustrating. PoE is probably my least favorite content they've ever added to Destiny.

Which is unfortunate because otherwise, HoW is excellent.

 

[Mindlog]

People keep saying that Ghorn makes things trivial...aside from burns how is it making end content trivial? It still takes some groups hours to beat Skolas, even when he had a burn. Raids aren't being completed in 5 minutes. The high level stuff still takes communication and team work to complete. I'm just not seeing the need for a Ghorn nerf; the mechanics of the boss fights should be the focus. Players will always find ways to cheese hard fights regardless, so just nerfing guns is not always the answer. The raids are a great example of mechanics making encounters interesting regardless of weapons.

Skolas could still use a health reduction. The problem with old Skolas was that Solar and Arc burns broke the encounter. Unless you wanted a very prolonged tedious fight you had to Alpha Skolas. Now the fight is still too long, but getting one-shotted isn't as big a problem. DUMP LIGHTSWITCH!

For a very long time many Hard Crota groups would want a minimum number of Gjallarhorns. If Gjallarhorn wasn't in the game more groups would set up a proper pre-fire/chip damage system for taking down his shields. Since Gjallarhorn delivers so much DPS most didn't bother with any of that and just ignored players trying to get by with whatever heavy they could manage.

also can't wait til 2 or 3 months after TTK is out for people to complain about "x pulse rifle" needing a nerf in pvp. this seems like it is going to be the never ending cycle of this game.

It's a never ending cycle in every game that a large percentage of the player base will complain about changes that actually improve the overall experience.

 

[border]

I don't mind the raid boss fights, but I feel this very strongly about the PoE bosses. Not one of them I've fought have been any fun..

I think Urox was a very fun fight, and one of the most balanced in a long time. They need more bosses that have a sort of distraction mechanic, where the team has to slow/stop DPS to avoid being killed.

Up until now the only way they could slow down a fight was to put an impenetrable shield on the boss, or overwhelm you with so many adds that you cannot even hope to do damage to the boss.

Most of the PoE encounters that had problems were only a few tweaks away from being really pretty decent.....all most of them really only need a reduction in add spawns (Quodron, Valus Trau'ug, Skolas).

 

[perineumlick]

Your right, people can speed run solo CROTA in 16 minutes....That is absolute hours...

I wonder how he did it....? Gally perhaps...it needs to go and people need to deal with it.




Destiny trolls are cooler...

Is that the exception or the norm? Can you do it? If it's so simple why are there so many people looking for Raid partners on here and other forums? Come on, son!

 

[perineumlick]

Skolas could still use a health reduction. The problem with old Skolas was that Solar and Arc burns broke the encounter. Unless you wanted a very prolonged tedious fight you had to Alpha Skolas. Now the fight is still too long, but getting one-shotted isn't as big a problem. DUMP LIGHTSWITCH!

For a very long time many Hard Crota groups would want a minimum number of Gjallarhorns. If Gjallarhorn wasn't in the game more groups would set up a proper pre-fire/chip damage system for taking down his shields. Since Gjallarhorn delivers so much DPS most didn't bother with any of that and just ignored players trying to get by with whatever heavy they could manage.

It's a never ending cycle in every game that a large percentage of the player base will complain about changes that actually improve the overall experience.

Yeah Lightswitch and Skolas should never be mixed together. I find myself passing on it altogether when it's on. To be fair once they took burns away more people played it the "legit" way, and it became more manageable without the Gjally and a Titan bubble.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

It's a never ending cycle in every game that a large percentage of the player base will complain about changes that actually improve the overall experience.

This. I'm getting Reach 2.0 vibes now.

 

[RetroMG]

The nerfs make me sad. Not sad enough to quit, but I'm at the point where if Taken King doesn't really deliver, I'm done.

 

[Liquidsnake]

So they take away Ghorn, yet Skolas is the biggest bullet sponge ever.

 

[Glendemonium]

What's going to happen once the changes take place, is when a few people are going to find the next "big thing" as far as weapons are concerned. Praise it to hell and back and watch the playerbase bandwagon the crap out of it.

Bungie will take notice and nerf it eventually. And the cycle continues.

Gjallahorn was broken mainly because no other rocketlauncer could match the kind of damage + utility it does. Thus, it became the bandwagon (sadly mandatory for bad groups) whereas other RL were considered unusable by the community who don't know any better.

Truth, Dragon's Breath, and Hunger should of had something more unique to make them just as attractive. Wolfpack creates a second rocket in the form of tracking clusters... which made it perfect for Crota and Atheon. Dragon's Breath, the little fireball should of been made to stick to the target and cause damage overtime for a few seconds. The Truth should allow a 1-2 second stun on contact, allowing other players to focus fire. Hunger of Crota's little clusters could act similar to wolfpack rounds but do smaller damage.

Each suggestion there would of given each RL some kind of uniqueness to it, and valuable just as much as Gjallahorn. It's a shame the dev team probably didn't consider that.

 

[Mutagenic]

You know the internet community is pretty powerful. I have seen it get things done that I thought were impossible.

Id like to see it rally together to let Bungie know what a disgrace this is. Can we do that?

A disgrace? Are you kidding me?

 

[border]

Isn't anyone happy about the Thorn DoT?

I've always wanted it to stack, and now it's going to stack 5 times. That's almost too generous.....I thought they would allow 3 stacks at most. Should be pretty great for PVE.

In PVP I think the stacking will be pretty nasty too, since that means it will take even longer to start your shield regen. Sure they just nerfed a handcannon's ability to get easy headshots at range.....but why even bother with headshots if you can pop off 3 quick body shots and have the DoT burn for nearly twice as much damage as it used to?

 

[Gurrry]

Man.. just when I thought I would get back into Destiny.. they do something to keep me out.

 

[Liquidsnake]

A disgrace? Are you kidding me?

I played 880 hours to get a Horn. They just told me I wasted my time. I killed myself to get a Black Hammer. For what?

Sitting at 1100 hours nowI feel so stupid.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Oh... I must be misunderstanding why everyone was losing their shit over trying to get to Mercury for the new Trials Weapons.

I assumed it was for the crazy good weapons.

Or Hopscotch Pilgrime.
Or The Ash Factory.
Or BTRD-345.
Or Matador 64.
Or Party Crasher +1

You want me to keep going?

lol, ironcially none are exotic and could easily be substituted with the exception of Pilgrim (how long until that's nerfed too?). Ash Factory? How about Hezen Vengeance or Hunger of Crota. BTRD? How about Corrective Measure. Matador and Party Crasher? How about Found Verdict, Swordbreaker, and Felwinter.

Besides, your list is comprised of weapons that are not creative or unique like an ice breaker or ghorn or thorn or black hammer, they just do damage better than other weaker weapons. Way to miss the point.

 

[mcfrank]

I played 880 hours to get a Horn. They just told me I wasted my time. I killed myself to get a Black Hammer. For what?

Sitting at 1100 hours nowI feel so stupid.

You didn't have any fun during that time? Holy shit the entitlement is overwhelming. It is a RNG loot based game. Stats are adjusted all the time in every game in this genre when something is over performing. Get used to it.

 

[robertlebrone]

I played 880 hours to get a Horn. They just told me I wasted my time. I killed myself to get a Black Hammer. For what?

Sitting at 1100 hours nowI feel so stupid.

This is Destiny in a nutshell. I was thinking about coming back to the game, (I actually reinstalled the game today) but then I read in detail what they are doing to Ghorn, BH and IB and changed my mind. I deleted it again and I'm going on about my business because it's inevitable whatever becomes the most used weapon/weapon class will just get nerfed because it's the most used. There is almost no point in trying to get the top tier weapons they will be castrated when people start having fun with them.

 

[Bucca]

Good. Fuck all you Thorn users.

Spoiler

/salt

 

[NullPointer]

You didn't have any fun during that time? Holy shit the entitlement is overwhelming. It is a RNG loot based game. Stats are adjusted all the time in every game in this genre when something is over performing. Get used to it.

In Warframe there were some big nerfs made in the past where the devs compensated the playerbase (those who had the changed items) by giving them special materials and upgrades to make up for the nerfs. I always thought that was an interesting way to deal with changes that'd make a lot of players think they've wasted a lot of time for nothing.

Its something that's maybe worth considering with Destiny since the game also revolves around that long and arduous hunt for rare items. Maybe something where they remove all the XP/materials invested in a nerfed item in a way that let you re-spend those points towards other weapons and gear.

 

[Mattdaddy]

Lol how did Ice breaker get sucked into the crosshairs?

 

[Mutagenic]

I played 880 hours to get a Horn. They just told me I wasted my time. I killed myself to get a Black Hammer. For what?

Sitting at 1100 hours nowI feel so stupid.

I feel their reasoning was sound, and this is coming from someone who thinks Bungie rarely has been sound with its past decision making. Besides, we don't know what the damage drop off is yet. They've shown stats for many of the other changes, but of course omit the numbers when mentioning the wolfpack rounds. I agree about the BH nerf, it sucks.

 

[traveler]

So they take away Ghorn, yet Skolas is the biggest bullet sponge ever.

Skolas is the biggest bullet sponge ever BECAUSE of Ghorn. As long as Ghorn exists as is, bullet sponges are required. (In fact, one could argue he wasn't bullet spongey enough given some of the clear times with Gjallar groups, although I guess that was just as much due to the solar burn)

All of you that keep complaining about bullet sponge bosses should rejoice at this- the point is that they no longer have to exist. They've stated in the Vidoc that strike bosses will have less health and more mechanics driven focus- this is the means of enabling that. Old bullet sponges are still around, yes, but that content will pass into the past by the time this patch actually hits.

 

[Exploratory]

The only bad nerf is the Icebreaker nerf. The fusion rifle and Pulse nerfs I'm going to wait and see what they're doing but the Icebreaker might as well not exist as far as PvP. It's ridiculous.

 

[Zocano]

Besides, your list is comprised of weapons that are not creative or unique like an ice breaker or ghorn or thorn or black hammer, they just do damage better than other weaker weapons. Way to miss the point.

The irony of this hurts me so much.

Let's see, what do those four you listed have in common...

Oh right, they do the most damage and are the most useful in their respective situations and do nothing more than that. Weird! There is maybe one exotic in the game that does anything "interesting" or changes how you might approach an encounter: Lord of Wolves. There is nothing unique or creative about Gjallarhorn. It just does twice a normal rockets amount of damage.

Thorn has a dot but this change finally makes the dot more interesting and emphasizes what's unique about it rather than how it is treated now.

Nearly every exotic in Destiny is just a different flavor of doing damage. Aside from Lord of Wolves, none of them make you reconsider your strategy or role in a fight.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Its possible they're doing both. Haven't Bungie talked abut changing some existing encounters when TTK hits?

At least two of the strikes are getting alternate "Taken-ified" versions (the two exclusive to PSN) when TTK releases. I don't know about updating existing strikes or bosses, though.

The two strike bosses we've seen from TTK both have more interesting mechanics than any in the game right now, so I'm hopeful they've moved away from bullet sponges.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

At least two of the strikes are getting alternate "Taken-ified" versions (the two exclusive to PSN) when TTK releases. I don't know about updating existing strikes or bosses, though.

The two strike bosses we've seen from TTK both have more interesting mechanics than any in the game right now, so I'm hopeful they've moved away from bullet sponges.

I hope so.

I mean, some of the arena bosses were egregious bullet sponges(The Servitor/Qodron come to mind). Like, even though they had mechanics, they just had a shitload of health/a mechanic that gave them a shitload of health.

 

[gioGAF]

Seems like a timely update, just in time to make the weapons that are part of the new expansion more relevant. The long time players will need to get the new DLC to remain at the top of their game and new players will have to worry less about acquiring the old outdated BiS items. Everyone wins, I mean Bungie wins, actually it is Activision who wins, lol.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I hope so.

I mean, some of the arena bosses were egregious bullet sponges(The Servitor/Qodron come to mind). Like, even though they had mechanics, they just had a shitload of health/a mechanic that gave them a shitload of health.

The level 32/34 servitor boss burns down really fast, it's the one without the ether mechanic that's a pure sponge; it's got ridiculous amounts of health, at pre-nerf Tarus levels. And yeah, the gatelords as well. They really stand apart from the other bosses which can be dropped much faster.

Have you seen the video of the new strike on Venus? Boss area starts at 5:50. I really hope it's an indication of where bosses are going.

 

[veloxStrix]

Part of the issue is that these aren't balance changes, they're nerfs. They aren't balancing the meta, they're simply creating a new one by making existing guns borderline useless.

It's the Riot strategy. Nerf a champion into the ground for awhile to get people to try new champions (and better yet, the newest one that costs more RP) and then bring it back months later (maybe.) Works for champions that you can get without relying on RNG. For guns that people put hours upon hours into getting from random chance, not so much.

by making existing guns borderline useless.

borderline useless

There is that hyperbole. I don't see any existing guns becoming borderline useless based on what I read. Thorn DoT gets dropped, Hawkmoon can't get cheap one shot kills, and TLW is now a much better close range weapon and much worse mid-long range weapon. None of these seem worthless. Efrideet's Spear might be worthless now, yeah, but there are plenty of other options. That gun was a fucking menace to society. The exact impact on Gjallrhorn is hard to tell, but it might very well still be a contender.

The only weapon that really lost was Ice Breaker.

On the other hand. Hard Light and No Land Beyond received huge buffs. Necrochasm received a buff (time will tell, but in conjunction with the changes to ARs in general we might finally see our widdle baby all grown up) . Each weapon class received changes that should further cement their individual place within Destiny.

Hardly the Riot strategy.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The level 32/34 servitor boss burns down really fast, it's the one without the ether mechanic that's a pure sponge; it's got ridiculous amounts of health, at pre-nerf Tarus levels. And yeah, the gatelords as well. They really stand apart from the other bosses which can be dropped much faster.

Have you seen the video of the new strike on Venus? Boss area starts at 5:50. I really hope it's an indication of where bosses are going.

Yeah, it looks very different and something out of WoW. I mean, both the bosses we've seen-The Cabal who has this big energy shield and has Wings/Electro-Pillars, and the huge puzzle/moving laser one.

If it's a new philosophy they have, then they're learning.

 

[CouchMaster]

Watching one DestinyGAF regular after another calling it quits is just hilarious.

I haven't touched it in over a month, have no desire to play any more, and given the shitty nerfs probably won't come back for TTK.

 

[Abylim]

I haven't touched it in over a month, have no desire to play any more, and given the shitty nerfs probably won't come back for TTK.

Its down right hilarious though that anyone would quit this game, apparently.

My dad keeps trying to get me to come back, but I'm done with it.
These "balances" just made me feel better about my decision. Enjoying ESO a hell of a lot more.

 

[geordiemp]

Is that the exception or the norm? Can you do it? If it's so simple why are there so many people looking for Raid partners on here and other forums? Come on, son!

I like been called son, its been allot of years and would make my kids laugh. I am probably allot older than you are my friend. Did you program ZX81's...do you know what one is...

My 13 year old son speed runs crota on normal yes, only with Gally.#

I dont bother, got all the guns anyway, all perfect 100 % intellect and discipline armour sets so I dont really need to do it, but sometimes jump in for a goof around as thats what coop is about.

Although in Crota Im lucky if I shoot 20 or 30 baddies start to finish, people can solo or duo it easy, except the liturgy bit on hard, which can still be 2 manned with 2 gallys.

 

[Deku Tree]

Wow! The GHorn nerf got an article on Business Insider.

 

[Nydius]

Lol how did Ice breaker get sucked into the crosshairs?

I can only think of two things, really:

1. Anytime there was something with solar burn, it became an Icebreaker fest; AND/OR:

2. They're planning a wider change to the Taken King game mechanics in order to devalue weapons that grant automatic ammo regen and this is the first step in making such a change.

That's really all I can think of. Would anyone be surprised if they removed ammo regen going forward, leaving it only on very specific exotics with very long regen times?

 

[Turdburger]

I played 880 hours to get a Horn. They just told me I wasted my time. I killed myself to get a Black Hammer. For what?

Sitting at 1100 hours nowI feel so stupid.

So basically you're just butthurt and thus refuse to look at the positive impact this will have on the overall game experience.

 

[Zocano]

So basically you're just butthurt and thus refuse to look at the positive impact this will have on the overall game experience.

Destiny criticism in a nutshell.

Spoiler

Not really, there are perfectly fair critiques, but a lot of these threads just turn into shittenings without hearing out any potential upsides (the good signs Taken King is putting out).

 

[Magwik]

Wow! The GHorn nerf got an article on Business Insider.

Must be the slowest news day ever then

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

If the GHorn nerd gives us lower health pools on bosses and more interesting mechanics to DPS bosses than I'm all for it. Give me something similar to Time's Vengeance for raids. Make fighting the boss cool and impactful, not a slow burn.

Black Hammer didn't need the nerf to white nail because at this point, Dragon strikes are a chore and a race to the end to hustle it along. We've done these strikes hundreds of times, lengthening it by weakening our weapons isn't a good change. It makes strikes even more dull!

Hopefully the PvP changes benefit the game though.