Kor of Memory
Member
Then the thing that makes it exotic no longer makes it exotic.
Destiny - Weapon Tuning 2.0
- Thread starter bombshell
- Start date
Then the thing that makes it exotic no longer makes it exotic.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Nobody is suggesting making everything a one hit kill weapon. The method bungie is using makes weapons like auto rifles completely useless. It hasn't worked and they've "balanced" weapons several times already
The more you nerf the more those standout weapons become powerful relative to everything else. This is exactly what has happened
Twilight Gap
Member
I have been cautiously optimistic about The Taken King since its reveal, but I'm probably going to be signing off as well (due only in part to this update).
First of all, I don't find much fault in any of these changes except for the Hand Cannon hip fire and magazine change. (Well, Icebreaker's change is pointless, but it's been obsolete for a while.) I definitely think the exotic Hand Cannons needed nerfing, but a global magazine size on top of that is too much. It didn't make sense for Hand Cannons to have an unusual amount of rounds in their chamber like 4, 5 or 7 to begin with. They should pick a number for each archetype and stick with it.
Like another poster said, I don't like using anything else in PvP. I've largely moved over to a Scout Rifle/Shotgun combo for PvE content, but nothing in the game lets you fight as freely and mobile as a Hand Cannon in PvP (The Last Word in particular). Without that freedom, the game loses vertical depth in favor of spray weapons like Pulse Rifles and Auto Rifles. Staying on the ground means being more susceptible to grenades, supers, rockets and people with the spray weapons. That was fine in the beta, but everything now is too lethal - especially at the high levels - to play otherwise. I was saying as far back as the alpha that the game needed a stronger focus on hip firing and vertical gameplay, and now they have naively gone and nerfed the little it had.
It stings especially because it looks like they will even be tuning class stuff like Blink. I've long waited for the day it'd be balanced, and that along with some of the new stuff I've seen like the Bannerfall map have had me very excited about the future as far as Destiny's gameplay goes. It looked like they had finally began to channel their Halo roots.
Again, most of these are good changes, but the one that appears to hit hardest comes at a time when the last thing I need out of this game is bad news. I'm literally signing off anyway because my PSN account has been suspended for disputing a charge. Sony wants me to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to have access to my account again. There is no way that I am throwing money down the drain like that.
I'm not going to deny that Destiny had me hooked. It's a flawed game for sure, but it was a blast to play with friends and simply fun to shoot stuff in even when there was nothing left to do. That alone has made it more interesting to me for a longer period than any other game I've played - including Bungie's previous games. Nevertheless, I've reached a point where I've had enough of the bullshit, whether it's in the game or out of it. Between all of the controversy and the mismanagement of the game itself, being a fan of Destiny isn't worthwhile anymore.
First of all, I don't find much fault in any of these changes except for the Hand Cannon hip fire and magazine change. (Well, Icebreaker's change is pointless, but it's been obsolete for a while.) I definitely think the exotic Hand Cannons needed nerfing, but a global magazine size on top of that is too much. It didn't make sense for Hand Cannons to have an unusual amount of rounds in their chamber like 4, 5 or 7 to begin with. They should pick a number for each archetype and stick with it.
Like another poster said, I don't like using anything else in PvP. I've largely moved over to a Scout Rifle/Shotgun combo for PvE content, but nothing in the game lets you fight as freely and mobile as a Hand Cannon in PvP (The Last Word in particular). Without that freedom, the game loses vertical depth in favor of spray weapons like Pulse Rifles and Auto Rifles. Staying on the ground means being more susceptible to grenades, supers, rockets and people with the spray weapons. That was fine in the beta, but everything now is too lethal - especially at the high levels - to play otherwise. I was saying as far back as the alpha that the game needed a stronger focus on hip firing and vertical gameplay, and now they have naively gone and nerfed the little it had.
It stings especially because it looks like they will even be tuning class stuff like Blink. I've long waited for the day it'd be balanced, and that along with some of the new stuff I've seen like the Bannerfall map have had me very excited about the future as far as Destiny's gameplay goes. It looked like they had finally began to channel their Halo roots.
Again, most of these are good changes, but the one that appears to hit hardest comes at a time when the last thing I need out of this game is bad news. I'm literally signing off anyway because my PSN account has been suspended for disputing a charge. Sony wants me to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to have access to my account again. There is no way that I am throwing money down the drain like that.
I'm not going to deny that Destiny had me hooked. It's a flawed game for sure, but it was a blast to play with friends and simply fun to shoot stuff in even when there was nothing left to do. That alone has made it more interesting to me for a longer period than any other game I've played - including Bungie's previous games. Nevertheless, I've reached a point where I've had enough of the bullshit, whether it's in the game or out of it. Between all of the controversy and the mismanagement of the game itself, being a fan of Destiny isn't worthwhile anymore.
I've already said that I think the nerf is unnecessary and I wish they hadn't done it, so I'm not going to argue in its favor until I'm blue in the face. It's a bad decision, not an "ok" one.
I just don't get why people think the gun is suddenly useless. I feel like its main utility is still there, at least as far as my playstyle is concerned. Outside of Oracles/Bridge cheese I don't see the increased regen time being a significant hamstring. Most of your time with the IB you're just sitting around with the clip at maximum capacity waiting for a suitable target.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
We need to raise enough hell over the next 2 months to stop these egregious changes from taking place. Every gun that actually made worthless grinding tolerable is being reduced to average garbage.
The weapons that make playing the same boring strike for the 500th time go faster are being reduced so that it becomes more time consuming.
The weapons that make playing the same boring strike for the 500th time go faster are being reduced so that it becomes more time consuming.
Kor of Memory
Member
Except some of us are happy with the changes.
Mechanized
Member
This is what happens when weapon balancing affects PVP. They should be separate weapon pools.
Destiny keeps making mistakes WoW did like fucking 10 years ago. Did any of the devs even play an MMO before?
Destiny keeps making mistakes WoW did like fucking 10 years ago. Did any of the devs even play an MMO before?
NullPointer
Member
Why even play the game at all if you find the core gameplay tolerable at best?
There are other games.
Sword Of Doom
Member
This is not true
I have used ice breaker plenty of times and regen time has always been an issue
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
This is the #1 reason I quit Destiny long ago.
Luke Smith, who is directing TTK, is/was a huge WoW player.
To give him credit though, he worked on VoG, which remains the best single piece of content in the game.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Is this some kind of dozens of us gif response joke?
For that sweet payout. Like getting an icebreaker or ghorn.
Replace Ice Breaker with Hopscotch Pilgrim nowadays.
There is no replacement for Ghorn, even post tuning. Instead of one I'll shoot 2 rockets then. No biggie.
The only positives are Thorn nerf for pvp and scout rifles only getting better. Auto rifles are TBD, everything else is just blah.
Kor of Memory
Member
Are you serious?
This thread alone seems to be about a 40-60 split of for and against. With a handful of the against not actually having read the full update info.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I imagine there's gotta be a poll somewhere that would settle this.
Thorn/Ghorn nerfs were inevitable.
But I don't get why Thorn is actually nerfed less than TLW. I get that the range on TLW needed adjusting, but why remove the stability as well? Combined with the overall HC nerf, it might become so bad that ADS'ing in say the hallways of Firebase map near the B flag won't even be good, which reduces to a hipfire weapon completely. If they would implement these stuff early, so we can actually see how they will work...
Funny how Fusion rifles will still not compare to shotguns.
Yes, which makes this nerf to IB stupid and most pointless thing ever. People who were using it all the time to cheap stuff will keep on using it, but taking longer time overall. It serves to annoy anyone using it legitimately more or less.
It is the same with Black Hammer. People will still keep on using it until they are out of ammo. Then, they wil use a special ammo synth or pick up ammo until they are out again.
All this serve is to make shit take longer time, and annoy anyone using them. What are these two sniper rifles will be less appealing to now? Still nothing in sniper rifles if you think about it besides when burns are in.
Oh and it looks like Autos might be actually useful again while Scouts are hitting the right spot of balance especially low rate/high impact ones now.
But I don't get why Thorn is actually nerfed less than TLW. I get that the range on TLW needed adjusting, but why remove the stability as well? Combined with the overall HC nerf, it might become so bad that ADS'ing in say the hallways of Firebase map near the B flag won't even be good, which reduces to a hipfire weapon completely. If they would implement these stuff early, so we can actually see how they will work...
Funny how Fusion rifles will still not compare to shotguns.
Yes, which makes this nerf to IB stupid and most pointless thing ever. People who were using it all the time to cheap stuff will keep on using it, but taking longer time overall. It serves to annoy anyone using it legitimately more or less.
It is the same with Black Hammer. People will still keep on using it until they are out of ammo. Then, they wil use a special ammo synth or pick up ammo until they are out again.
All this serve is to make shit take longer time, and annoy anyone using them. What are these two sniper rifles will be less appealing to now? Still nothing in sniper rifles if you think about it besides when burns are in.
Oh and it looks like Autos might be actually useful again while Scouts are hitting the right spot of balance especially low rate/high impact ones now.
VincentMatts
Member
Well, if its true and fireteams didnt play with people who didnt have them, thats just stupid of those fireteams.
NullPointer
Member
Which you'll then use to... grind for more gear, while not having fun? Its OK, I don't have to understand it. Its just a sentiment I see a lot with loot games and make me scratch my head every time.
And if we're voting in this thread, put me in the pro camp, because while I don't think the game will ever be decently balanced, its a good thing to keep the game from revolving around a tiny list of exotics.
Kor of Memory
Member
Who needs a poll? Just look at the other pages. It's pretty clear that there are people happy about this.
I'm sure the idea is to encourage people who hold on to their IBs so tightly to try something else.
A lot of average players feel like the IB is the only option.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
sturgboski
Member
You'd think what with Blizzard being part of Activision, Bungie can just walk down the hall and ask for advice on what to do with splitting the pools, better strike/dungeon and raid content, etc.
Yes, I know, they arent physically located in the same building, but same sort of concept.
You would think Activision would want their 10 year investment to flourish and would sort of be a bridge for Bungie to seek advice from Blizzard. Sadly, Bungie seems to spend a lot of time with their head in the sand (or up their ass, whatever). As I mentioned before, rather than looking at how to force people into using your new terrible weapons OR eliminate cheese in strikes and raids, they should have looked at WHY people are relying on these weapons. Could it be that new rewards arent that great? Could it be that Bungie can only design challenging PVE content by creating bullet sponges and having enemies be at LVL CAP+1 so that they deal more damage to players and players deal less damage to the enemies? Instead of fixing those fundamental design problems, I guess this is the easier approach.
geordiemp
Member
It is not broken...it just makes many enemies a non starter such as fallen and some POE bosses. Broken is lazy way of saying it makes many parts of the game TRIVIAL...and it certainly does that
They want players to do team work and move around as a unit and play...
Not sit in one spot and snipe...icebreaker and Crota sniper does this...
Its still the best sniper against hive with solar and extra hive damage...they should replace the perk though with something like aim assist or whatever or make the mag bigger to compensate...
...it just means after 18 sniper shots you have to move to get some ammo as they upped the black hammer ammo...GOOD call bungie but dont forget the 3 round mag !
Liquidsnake
Banned
Well I am not surprised.
As usual, extremely disappointed. Extremely. This just might be the end of playing for me.
As usual, extremely disappointed. Extremely. This just might be the end of playing for me.
JetBlackPanda
Member
at first I was really angry.. now im just whatever.. give me new shit to do and I will be there. If TKK is a stinker im really done with Destiny.
geordiemp
Member
Never use it in POE, so many better snipers, POE 35 Icebreaker is crap, I use an Arc Eflreet with extended mag 6 rounds and firefly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Icebreaker.
Only if its solar burn, but prefer solar Elfreet or black hammer or her benevolence >>> Icebreaker
The Lamonster
Member
Nerfing the iconic Gjallarhorn.
smh, Bungie. I guess the mantra is "if it's fun, nerf it."
smh, Bungie. I guess the mantra is "if it's fun, nerf it."
Iconic for being OP and trivializing content, yes.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Iconic for being worth the time it takes to get one. Now it's just Truth with solar, where's the content that makes you feel like what you did was worth it?
Anybody that still does this is an asshole, pure and simple.
This is what I believe they should do. I call it the Syndrome approach. When every gun's super, no gun is.
The Lamonster
Member
Content that we have to play over and over, and over again.
So what if people that have earned rare, powerful weapons were able to take down Omnigul a little faster than others? What's even the point of having multiple weapons in the game if Bungie wants everything to be a pea shooter?
The time it takes? It's random, lol. You could get one the first time you run a strike, or a year into the game.
I've put more time into this game than probably 90% of this forum, and just recently got a Hawkmoon. I knew HM being capable of one shotting people was bullshit, fun as it may be, so to be shocked, or outraged at it getting nerfed is silly. The same applies to a RL that could melt boss encounters in a minute, completely bypassing the mechanics of the fight.
As I said yesterday in the Destiny community thread, saying Gajllerhorn is needed to combat bullet sponge bosses has no merit moving forward, because I don't believe they will repeat the same mistakes of those strikes. So to leave the weapon as it is for the new content could have made it even more broken than it already is. You have to look at the broader picture of this update, it isn't even hitting until TTK, and these changes have been made with that game's balance in mind.
The knee jerk reactions without even seeing how it will truly play in the next content is stupid.
Does someone have a gun to your head making you play this content over and over that you don't seem to have fun with?
The game needed a weapon balance patch badly, the loadouts have been stale for quite a while. The game will continue to get patched and balanced, there will always be an evolving meta, and if you have a problem with that, then you're going to spend a lot of time mad at the game.
ReignofSparrows
Member
The reactions to this have been pretty strong considering we don't have any idea how most of this stuff will play out. There are enough variables at play to muddy the picture without complete unknowns out there in new guns and the design of the new PvE content.
On the PvE side, this could allow Bungie to implement better designed content by not having to account for straight DPS-burst strategies, and on the PvP side, absolutely nobody can say with a certainty what the new meta will be. Educated guesses, sure, but that's it at this point.
I know one of the common responses to my reasoning centers on the concept of 'benefit of the doubt,' but that's just silly. If you don't know how something will play out, assuming worst case beforehand is not in any way validated if the worst case does come to pass. And saying 'I don't know,' is not the same as 'guys, it's probably going to be good.' It just means I don't know, but at least I know enough to know that I don't know.
I am not saying people should give it a shot. By all means, don't purchase. But let's not pretend like anyone here has a clear understanding of what most of this means. Nerfs have been negligible in Destiny in the past, buffs have been negligible in the past. I mean, the actual designers probably don't have a clear picture of how this will all play out, yet, and they are testing the game.
On the PvE side, this could allow Bungie to implement better designed content by not having to account for straight DPS-burst strategies, and on the PvP side, absolutely nobody can say with a certainty what the new meta will be. Educated guesses, sure, but that's it at this point.
I know one of the common responses to my reasoning centers on the concept of 'benefit of the doubt,' but that's just silly. If you don't know how something will play out, assuming worst case beforehand is not in any way validated if the worst case does come to pass. And saying 'I don't know,' is not the same as 'guys, it's probably going to be good.' It just means I don't know, but at least I know enough to know that I don't know.
I am not saying people should give it a shot. By all means, don't purchase. But let's not pretend like anyone here has a clear understanding of what most of this means. Nerfs have been negligible in Destiny in the past, buffs have been negligible in the past. I mean, the actual designers probably don't have a clear picture of how this will all play out, yet, and they are testing the game.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
All it says to me is that the new weapons are going to be generic and uninteresting to use. The last new weapon that had any kind of cool feature was Black Hammer and that was pretty much the only truly powerful weapon added with the Crota add-on. Everyone is still after the original exotics and original raid weapons for the most part. Or original Iron Banner drops like Felwinter or Efrideet.
HoW is just creatively bankrupt weapons with almost no distinguishing qualities. Lord of Wolves? Queenbreaker Bow? Dreg's Promise? It's just filler for people to collect. If these trends continue everything is going to be the same in TTK.
They're retroactively degrading the original weapons to make the new stuff seem less shitty in comparison.
ThirtyPlus
Member
The funny thing is, I actually quit Destiny last week after my play has dwindled week after week. So instead of being disappointed at all of these changes, a smile crept to my lips as I read the update.
By the end, I was chuckling.
Thanks Bungie for validating my decision!
By the end, I was chuckling.
Thanks Bungie for validating my decision!
geordiemp
Member
Exactly, if we want bosses that dont have 20,000 HP bars, then Gallahorn has to go and they need to tone down all rocket launchers which makes such fights trivial.
A nice boss fight is a few minutes, sponge is > 10 minutes and trivial is < 1 minute.
Gally made too much trivial, and it was homing and wolfpack = no effort or skill other than using a synth. May as well just give players a nuke..whats the point in playing ?
geordiemp
Member
No. Best snipers in game for trials are her benevolence, LDR and Longbow.
Fang is best arc scout and more than equal to Vision, with Fang having better range and stability. Word of crota is one of the best legendary hand cannons with superb range - try it in crucible you will be surprised.
Crota is one of the best rocket lauchers that is not Gally, and probably will be best after gally nerf.
Lord of wolves after shotty nerf will be very popular..I bet you.
VOG is good for fatebringer and vision of confluence and maybe found verdict.
Best machine gun is BTRD. The good legendary guns are nicely spread out.
Kor of Memory
Member
Oh... I must be misunderstanding why everyone was losing their shit over trying to get to Mercury for the new Trials Weapons.
I assumed it was for the crazy good weapons.
Or Hopscotch Pilgrime.
Or The Ash Factory.
Or BTRD-345.
Or Matador 64.
Or Party Crasher +1
You want me to keep going?
Liquidsnake
Banned
You know the internet community is pretty powerful. I have seen it get things done that I thought were impossible.
Id like to see it rally together to let Bungie know what a disgrace this is. Can we do that?
Id like to see it rally together to let Bungie know what a disgrace this is. Can we do that?
Kor of Memory
Member
Wolvesinthebathroom
Member
That Big Tasty, Real Dirty.
Kor of Memory
Member
My favorite was
TFWPKY 1969
A Hand Cannon
(The Fall Will Probably Kill You)
geordiemp
Member
Its funny how people just dont seem to know what is good. Agree....VOG after fatebringer, Vision and found verdict has not much more to offer that is not bettered by new stuff.
KiefbladeMaster
Member
Maybe you should just not play the game if you're that upset about meta changes. I solely play crucible every week to cap, then stop, and I can say that I think these changes were sorely needed. Loadouts are incredibly stale. Everyone is running Hawkmoon, Thorn, Red Death, etc. and that's it. It's no fun.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Basically the only exotics worth a damn have been nerfed and depending on how ghorn and Ice breaker end up they may be entirely pointless.
Black hammer is now not even worth getting.
Black hammer is now not even worth getting.
fully agree with you. really only thing i thought needed nerfing was thorn's and tlw's performance in pvp.
auto rifles needed a boost and the rest could've been sorted by designing more intricate pve encounters/enemies. for example, enemies were the crit spot is in constant rotation/moving, enemies that disable rocket launchers' tracking and/or are not tracked by wolfpack rounds, bosses that aren't just bullet sponges that stand around in the same spot.