I had no idea it showed a number, holy shit!
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Diablo III: Reaper of Souls |OT| Once again! The Sound of HAMMERS is GLORIOUS!
- Thread starter Yoshichan
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I had no idea it showed a number, holy shit!
neurosisxeno
Member
Got this today, but I have a feeling thorns is pretty difficult for monks to use.
Save the reroll for a barb or crusader?
Depends on what the chance to proc is, but you have to consider how much Fire Damage you do, and that the thorns Affix on that item alone gives it a chance to proc 15k damage, which isn't a ton but if you could get that up it wouldn't be terrible.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
The main reason to use a Crusader shield over a normal shield is due to the insane legendary effects.
Such as:
Every successful block has a 2025% chance to reduce all cooldowns by 1 second.
Heavenly Strength no longer reduces your movement speed.
Blessed Shield ricochets to 46 additional enemies.
Shield Glare now hits all enemies around you.
SlenderBeans
Member
Any tips on how to increase the DPS for my Monk? I see people with nearly all Rare gear, but they have nearly 700k Damage or so, and that's not taking the bonus elemental damage or bonus skill damage into effect.
I get about 400k I believe, but are there any tips I'm missing? I can easily solo Torment 1, but I don't know what I should be trying to focus on. Any other monks got any tips?
Here's my current build.
OF course, the Mystic stuff isn't showing up, like the STR on my Hallowed Breach was replaced by the socket. ( I originally built it on my Crusader.)
Also, what would be better to focus on for trying to grab some better gear? Bounty runs or Rift runs?
I also haven't been able to Mystic too much stuff. Running super low on Veiled Crystals and money.
I get about 400k I believe, but are there any tips I'm missing? I can easily solo Torment 1, but I don't know what I should be trying to focus on. Any other monks got any tips?
Here's my current build.
OF course, the Mystic stuff isn't showing up, like the STR on my Hallowed Breach was replaced by the socket. ( I originally built it on my Crusader.)
Also, what would be better to focus on for trying to grab some better gear? Bounty runs or Rift runs?
I also haven't been able to Mystic too much stuff. Running super low on Veiled Crystals and money.
Well, yeah. And that they have the possibility of Wrath Regen and Skill Damage% rolls. I know that.
You can do without, but it's a piece that rolls up to 10% CC and there are lots of synergies with passives that make a shield worth using.
hallowed barricade being bugged right now and the absurdly low drop rate on ascended shields to craft them is bumming me super hard. i really need to craft a few to make one that isn't straight shit to replace the awesome roll on my hallowed bulwark that i'm not making use of the passive on.
Or do it because you can totally still be viable even without one. Let's be real here
You can be viable as any stupid spec in the game, but it's still pointless unles sit's just 'because I want to do it" as noted
You can be viable as any stupid spec in the game, but it's still pointless unles sit's just 'because I want to do it" as noted
The thing that bothers me is I am not sure if there is actually a passive skill that would make up the toughness and dps loss of not having a shield (since in this situation I assume we're not taking the 2h/shield passive because we want the 4th slot for something else). I'm honestly not the biggest min/maxer, but, I try to at least do the fairly obvious things for character power.
I'll admit: going without a shield is not for everyone but the bravest souls.
It's similar in regard to the Order of the Lion, probably more a subsect of it, Crusader style anyway.
In the melee DH build, it had strengths because yes, you were tanky as well as trying to up your damage, which created an interesting build to go for - you could wade into melee and not worry about being killed.
The Crusader 2H spec is much the opposite - you have much less survivability stats wise (and yea, without passives to back you up), but I believe the extra movement speed and focus on more damaging and/or utility talents can make for an interesting (and FUN!) build.
It all depends on what you roll with and what you roll around. There was a build I was playing early on in my Torment career with a Magefist based entirely around Fire damage; it was absolutely brutal with Blazing Sweep on Sweep attack. Scores of enemies running away in flames and burning up intensely.
I'm still vying for a sick Holy damage build, and much like earlier posts in the thread echoing, the wrath spenders for a Crusader are considerably lacking, as Fires of Heaven is pretty much the only one worth using, and even then, it's a huge Wrath eater.
With the 2H build I'm shooting for, the Crusader will move fast, attack fast to build Wrath, and spend it fast to kill enemies. All the while looking cool with a 2H and NO SHIELD.
This is what I do with classes in games; I break their established rules and make them viable without them.
The popularity of the melee DH in the clan can attest to my findings and uniqueness: players enjoy seeing things turned on their heads and new ways to look at things.
So I encourage you to play the way the class is played. Go on using a shield. Find awesome shields and use them!
I'm playing with the idea of Wrathful being a perfect way to keep yourself alive without a shield - if you can roll +health globe bonus on most of your gear as a secondary (or hope to get it) I think that skill scales insanely well.
It's similar in regard to the Order of the Lion, probably more a subsect of it, Crusader style anyway.
In the melee DH build, it had strengths because yes, you were tanky as well as trying to up your damage, which created an interesting build to go for - you could wade into melee and not worry about being killed.
The Crusader 2H spec is much the opposite - you have much less survivability stats wise (and yea, without passives to back you up), but I believe the extra movement speed and focus on more damaging and/or utility talents can make for an interesting (and FUN!) build.
It all depends on what you roll with and what you roll around. There was a build I was playing early on in my Torment career with a Magefist based entirely around Fire damage; it was absolutely brutal with Blazing Sweep on Sweep attack. Scores of enemies running away in flames and burning up intensely.
I'm still vying for a sick Holy damage build, and much like earlier posts in the thread echoing, the wrath spenders for a Crusader are considerably lacking, as Fires of Heaven is pretty much the only one worth using, and even then, it's a huge Wrath eater.
With the 2H build I'm shooting for, the Crusader will move fast, attack fast to build Wrath, and spend it fast to kill enemies. All the while looking cool with a 2H and NO SHIELD.
This is what I do with classes in games; I break their established rules and make them viable without them.
The popularity of the melee DH in the clan can attest to my findings and uniqueness: players enjoy seeing things turned on their heads and new ways to look at things.
So I encourage you to play the way the class is played. Go on using a shield. Find awesome shields and use them!
I'm playing with the idea of Wrathful being a perfect way to keep yourself alive without a shield - if you can roll +health globe bonus on most of your gear as a secondary (or hope to get it) I think that skill scales insanely well.
Yeah, that +fire% doesn't quite mesh well if a thorns build AFAIK, but then I need to read up on barb and crusader skills.
However they've changed the thorns mechanic and it now scales with your main stat. The formula is thorns on gear x (main stat / 400 + 1). Assuming you have 8000 str on a barb, you would do 324030 damage per proc just from the bracers alone (1543 x 21 x 10). Definitely not insignificant. But yeah, need to determine the proc %.
Plus the other benefit is that thorns take up your secondary affixes, not the primary affixes. That means you could potentially gear up a lot more. On the other hand, thorns has never seemed like a particularly fun way to play the game.
There is a big difference between a different melee DH build and a crusader 'build' that has only one skill different (Heavenly Strength) and has to make up for a TON of defense because of that loss of a single skill. It might as well be baked into the class tbh, while I'm sure there will be builds without it, it's not a game or playstyle changer. Literally you're just getting another passive, but sacrificing a shitload of defense and offense to do it. So in other words, for it to open a new build, you need to have something that CRITICALLY NEEDS three passives to even function. And be decent enough for that to offset now needing a shitload of defense on the rest of your gear.
A DH using Fan of Knives is significantly different here.
tl;dr: You lose both offensive and defensive stats by not taking heavenly strength, at only the gain of movement speed. You then need to make up for this loss by massively altering your stats everywhere else, and gaining less hotkey skill options rather than more.
Actually, the only passive I need to use is Wrathful - the extreme expenditure of Fires of Heaven makes it so that I go back to full health in the middle of hard battles - that skill is incredibly good. I don't have to take any other defensive passives, and the stacking of STR gives me enough armor to keep myself alive. The only other defensive stat I go for is All Resist.
I disagree :x The class is based around using the shield much like the DH is based around ranged weapons. I'm going against what the class was intended for. That I can do that and still make it work is awesome indeed.
I got 5 Legendary belts in a row. Two of the same belt in a row too. (Second one was slightly worse.)
Legendary drops are super frustrating for me in RoS so far.
Is the guaranteed legendary at Diablo after a reset still there? Any other guaranteed legendaries?
I use a Shield but it's just a stat stick. Most Crusaders don't use the actual Shield scaling skills since they're bad.
Edit: In fact, it sounds entirely like your build is precisely how I play except I have a Shield for 10% Crit.
It's at Mathael now.
Sorry, I meant one-handing a two-hander. And yes, I got your PM. I'm still working on it.
Before I respond back with my others questions, I just want to say thanks for spending the time to write it up. I appreciate it.
Yeah your build and mine are similar: my goal is to get attack speed as high as possible (while using a 2H sword, the fastest of the 2Hs) to generate wrath with Zeal to spam FoH. Using Wrathful, doing those SHOULD keep me alive without ever having to use a shield. I'd really like a Holy damage weapon to try out Holy Cause tho.
There was a point lower level where I could really see the build come together: I had a lot of AS in the beginning, and swinging the 2H sword came really fast and was amazing to see it work.
Awesome! I use Falling Sword as a placement skill (I could use Steed, but something about it bothers me - it feels unwieldy at times, and Falling Sword is a good chunk of damage to eliminate lesser enemies around elites).
I wish Falling Sword had a Holy damage variant. I've been also thinking about Judgment.
You're not even understanding here Ash.
You say a melee DH is cool and people agree with you. A melee DH is fundamentally a different playstyle and build than any other DH though.
A crusader without a shield is....a crusader without a shield. It's 10% crit and a shitload of defense and strength that you're losing for: nothing at all. A passive slot that you don't need (Which is why I mentioned mandatory passives which you didn't get. Unless you have a build that has four OTHER passives that it absolutely 100% needs, then you're simply making yourself shittier by not taking heavenly strength).
This is NOT the same thing, and recommending people do it is nothing special or edgy, it's the same as doing a 'no equipment FF7 run!' or something like that. It is EXACTLY the same as simply taking a piece of gear off of any other character. Hey guys, I'm a 1h Barb that doesn't use an offhand or shield! same thing. It literally has no effect on your play, it just makes you worse.
You're not breaking the game, you're just gimping yourself because you think it's fun, despite the moment to moment gameplay being 100% identical.
I appreciate what you've said.
I don't see it as a "no equipment run" or anything of the sort. It is a different playstyle because of the way you select other various abilities and passives to fit the playstyle. It's never meant to be "cool or edgy", but to be a valid way to play the class without fitting the tropes of the class. I also don't think it makes you worse - I can do Torment just fine without Heavenly Strength or a shield, and the fact that I can at all means to me more than building the build itself.
I'm not trying to break the game or gimp myself because it's fun either. It's an entirely different experience altogether, and it's worth it.
That's fine if that's what you want to do, the main thing is that yeah, you might use some different skills, but you can use your exact same build WITH heavenly strength and a shield and be better off for it. It's not 'different' in the way that your DH is. Which was originally why this came up - someone wondering if it was beneficial not to use HS, and the answer is that no, it's really not. Not unless you deathly are unable to play your build without 4 specific other passives (which to my knowledge nboody has a build like that yet). IE: I take a dps passive instead, it had better be stronger than both the offensive stats of the shield, AND the offensive stats I lose on other gear making up for the defensive stats of the shield. There aren't any passives that do that. Vice versa for defensive passives you might take.
I think potentially Finery may be in that realm. At Level 70, with gems in your rings, three each in your pants and chest, your neck, your hat, your weapon, you can get 770 strength out of them, which is 770 more armor, but then there's still the problem of lost block chance.
Finery's stats aren't that noticeable at 8000-ish STR.
And, again, it's not really a different way to play. It's a pretty standard melee Crusader build. Just without a Shield. That's literally it.
I found a Thunderfury earlier today.
While powerleveling a friend.
Hooray, Level 40 item.
And, again, it's not really a different way to play. It's a pretty standard melee Crusader build. Just without a Shield. That's literally it.
I found a Thunderfury earlier today.
While powerleveling a friend.
Hooray, Level 40 item.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Shields have much more than 770 armor though. You are also losing the other stats that are present on shields, crit chance, wrath generation, etc. Not to mention losing legendary effects (which can completely offset Heavenly Str).
Crusaders are not truly viable without a shield. You are intentionally gimping yourself. Melee DH is different, there you actually trade X for Y. You trade damage for survivability. You aren't truly gaining damage over a shield bearer by removing it are you?
As it stands it seems like Crusaders were designed around everyone running Heavenly Strength. Personally, if that is the case, the passive needs a second look. It should be baked into the class and re-envisioned. "The weight of the shield decreases your strength by 10%, w/e." Something needs to change.
The speed decrease doesn't really matter much. The Heavenly Strength passive is a must for Crusader IMO (and pretty much every Crusader runs it).
Respectfully disagree. This is what people originally said about Melee DH. That the build wasn't different enough just because of playing without ranged weapons. This is the same difference. I'm locking myself out of shield skills just the same as locking myself out of ranged skills. And it still works.
Heavily disagree. The only differences I feel while playing is the loss of block. The loss of stats can be made up elsewhere and in some cases, made even stronger.
I got a lot of dissension when I was trying to make people see Melee DH could work in Vanilla, so I'm used to it.
What I really like about RoS is that I can play with a new 70 and constantly get upgrades relatively quickly. I played for 20-30 min today and made a whole new setup with my crusader. got 34% Phalanx damage boost, crit chance from 10% to 30%, went from like 4000 str to 6000 str, gained like 83K in damage.
I can actually pick a new class and get dem upgrades! It feels good! (Maybe this happened in 2.0 and I didn't notice since I barely played 2.0?)
I can actually pick a new class and get dem upgrades! It feels good! (Maybe this happened in 2.0 and I didn't notice since I barely played 2.0?)
That's an entirely different skillset.
This is without an item.
I can literally do your build by unequipping my Shield.
Edit: Put another way, you gain absolutely nothing by opting to do this. You're not using certain skills in a different manner (or certain skills that are never used in the case of Fan of Knives). I'm not really sure what's there to argue about on this, really. More power to you for wanting to go without a shield if that's your choice on this but I wouldn't try saying that it's a new and different approach that changes how you play the class. You're just losing a stat slot.
If you wanna play your crusader without a shield because you think it looks cool and you like your 15% MS then whatever, do what you like.
Arguing for several pages about how it's a revolutionary "BUILD" that breaks boundaries and saves kittens is just pretentious. In terms of gameplay, it's exactly like 1h+shield crusader, except gimped.
Arguing for several pages about how it's a revolutionary "BUILD" that breaks boundaries and saves kittens is just pretentious. In terms of gameplay, it's exactly like 1h+shield crusader, except gimped.
I would argue that 1H + Shield combo is still better than solo 2H. Unless the 2H weapon itself is some godly Legendary.
I don't think there's another passive of Crusader that trumps Heavenly Strength.
I wish that there was a passive that allowed Crusader to dual wield 1Hs and give him 30% mitigation. Hell give him 15% MS reduction on that too.
Edit: You are gaining something by going 2H Crusader... you get another passive slot. The argument is that the 4th passive does not outweigh having a shield + 2H.
I don't think there's another passive of Crusader that trumps Heavenly Strength.
I wish that there was a passive that allowed Crusader to dual wield 1Hs and give him 30% mitigation. Hell give him 15% MS reduction on that too.
Edit: You are gaining something by going 2H Crusader... you get another passive slot. The argument is that the 4th passive does not outweigh having a shield + 2H.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I would love to hear the rationale behind it then. I understand your Melee DH. You are changing the skill set, you are losing a quiver but gaining a shield (trading Offense for Defense).
What are you gaining by jettisoning the shield?
The loss of stats can be made up elsewhere and in some cases, made even stronger? What? Why? Couldn't a shield user gain those same stats. How are you gaining something over a shield user?
He's gaining a 4th passive slot and MS over someone using 2H + Shield.
Against someone who is using 1H + Shield and 4 passives he is gaining raw DPS of 2H.
So yes.. he is in fact trading something... but I would argue that he isn't trading up for it.
Finally! After dropping like 15 souls to get that crit chance. Was starting to think it being on the list was incorrect. Never thought I'd be running sacrifice in a full on summon build like mine, but this makes that oh so amazing/viable. Honestly this is probably a best in slot item for me until the next expansion.
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