Support NeoGAF

[Ashodin]

That's an entirely different skillset.

This is without an item.

I can literally do your build by unequipping my Shield.

Edit: Put another way, you gain absolutely nothing by opting to do this. You're not using certain skills in a different manner (or certain skills that are never used in the case of Fan of Knives). I'm not really sure what's there to argue about on this, really. More power to you for wanting to go without a shield if that's your choice on this but I wouldn't try saying that it's a new and different approach that changes how you play the class. You're just losing a stat slot.

Without an item, it opens up a totally different playstyle, and other options can be considered. Just because the current playstyle I'm particularly doing at this moment is near the same as yours is coincidence. Like I said before, I'm locked out of using shield primaries and secondaries - which makes me play the class differently than those who use a shield.

And your build is not just without a shield, you'd have to drop heavenly strength and use a 1H with a shield.

If you wanna play your crusader without a shield because you think it looks cool and you like your 15% MS then whatever, do what you like.

Arguing for several pages about how it's a revolutionary "BUILD" that breaks boundaries and saves kittens is just pretentious. In terms of gameplay, it's exactly like 1h+shield crusader, except gimped.

I've said time and again in this discussion that it's not about being "cool or edgy". It's about playing a different way. I can understand both you and scy resisting it because you're both about min/maxing, I understand that. More power to you, but that doesn't discount the fact that I'm making this work, and it is viable.

I would love to hear the rationale behind it then. I understand your Melee DH. You are changing the skill set, you are losing a quiver but gaining a shield (trading Offense for Defense).

What are you gaining by jettisoning the shield?

The loss of stats can be made up elsewhere and in some cases, made even stronger? What? Why? Couldn't a shield user gain those same stats. How are you gaining something over a shield user?

What am I gaining? The ability to choose another passive over Heavenly Strength, which allows me to choose a more offensive passive (currently using Finery), and allows me to choose more movement-orienting skills. I'm trading stats for skill. Something that is harder to quantify IMO. The "playstyle" that I have come up with allows me to move around the battlefield more and position myself easier than a slower heavenly strength'd Crusader. The loss of the shield is because the 2Hs hit harder and scale better with % damage attacks than a 1H and shield. Fires of Heaven will hit harder than a 1H and shield.

I appreciate all your guys' responses: it allows me to re-evaluate what I'm currently doing and concentrate on how to make the spec even more effective.

edit: holy shit dahbomb you can read me like a book haha

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Tonight was an interesting night for diablo 3, got 3 legendary patterns and possibly the worst string of ears I've ever seen. It had no vit or mainstat, it only had healing effects and life percent. Also found a really shitty nail biter, I was trying to consider giving it to my barb but it's worse than my handmedown skorn.

And then I got two back to back weapon upgrades. Rerolled some things to closer to perfect stats. Over all eeked out a 50k damage increase. Decided to stick with the zwiehander I found instead of the mortal drama, about a 10% damage difference and I really don't like bombardment all that much, that being said I'mma hang on to this thing just incase inspiration strikes.

Truth be told, it was incredibly hilarious seeing 2 huge meteors strike the land and insta gib champ packs with valor - critical up.

Messed around with a few passives but a lower block chance didn't jive with me so good, missing my 49% block, 34% is a bit woozy.

 

[Dahbomb]

No shield Crusader would probably have these passives (if I was to make it):

Righteousness
Nephalem Majesty
Lord Commander (if you run Bombardment/Phalanx) or Holy Cause
Vigilance or Indestructible or Wrathful for defense
Blunt
Long Arm of Law maybe if you rely on your Law activations


Any other skill would pretty much suck.

 

[Tunesmith]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/AnathemicOne-1625/hero/7620124

Of course it doesn't show rerolled stats but I generally aimed for crit chance on most of my items.



What made you stop? I've yet to test it out via act bosses, I'm hoping Ray of Frost will supplement in a scenario where melee sin't possible. Debating on whether to change that though as I've stated previously.

Thunderfury dropped, so I went to a more long distance lightning/frost spec instead.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

What am I gaining? The ability to choose another passive over Heavenly Strength, which allows me to choose a more offensive passive (currently using Finery), and allows me to choose more movement-orienting skills. I'm trading stats for skill. Something that is harder to quantify IMO. The "playstyle" that I have come up with allows me to move around the battlefield more and position myself easier than a slower heavenly strength'd Crusader. The loss of the shield is because the 2Hs hit harder and scale better with % damage attacks than a 1H and shield. Fires of Heaven will hit harder than a 1H and shield.

I appreciate all your guys' responses: it allows me to re-evaluate what I'm currently doing and concentrate on how to make the spec even more effective.

edit: holy shit dahbomb you can read me like a book haha

Ash, first and foremost, please do not take this as a personal attack or anything of the sort. I love our clan, and I enjoy seeing you log on; each time you do so with gusto and happiness. I never see you complain, which I do frequently.

The thing is I just do not see the gain. You are currently gaining Finery and MS, so that you can become a more mobile Crusader. The fact is though, all you are truly gaining is mobility. Finery will never offset the stats that a shield brings. At most you are gaining what, 750-800 strength? That is not worth it man, it just isn't. You are losing Wrath, Armor, Block chance, secondary legendary effects, etc.

All you are gaining is mobility, that is all. Period. Which again, can be negated completely with the proper shield.

*edit* I really need to stop reading this, I have a five page "scholarly" review due tomorrow; one page in.

 

[scy]

Without an item, it opens up a totally different playstyle, and other options can be considered. Just because the current playstyle I'm particularly doing at this moment is near the same as yours is coincidence. Like I said before, I'm locked out of using shield primaries and secondaries - which makes me play the class differently than those who use a shield.

And your build is not just without a shield, you'd have to drop heavenly strength and use a 1H with a shield.

No, I can just drop the Shield and replace Shield Glare / work without it. I'm not relying on using a Shield. Nothing in the overall playstyle will change.

I can understand both you and scy resisting it because you're both about min/maxing, I understand that. More power to you, but that doesn't discount the fact that I'm making this work, and it is viable.

The original comment was asking for a reason to go without a Shield. There really isn't any. None of the passives yield the same stat gain. Hence my original comment. I don't care if you're making it work or whatever. I never argued anything of the sort. If that's what you want to do, go for it. I'm more just here to point out that there's not a real, tangible reason in the game right now for it. Maybe in the future there will be.

Ultimately, I think you're reaching on how it's "different" in the end. That's all.

Edit: I'm in Mumble and/or you can message me in-game (scy#1745) so we're not further shitting up this thread with a random tangent though~~~

No shield Crusader would probably have these passives (if I was to make it):

Righteousness
Nephalem Majesty
Lord Commander (if you run Bombardment/Phalanx) or Holy Cause
Vigilance or Indestructible or Wrathful for defense
Blunt
Long Arm of Law maybe if you rely on your Law activations


Any other skill would pretty much suck.

Lord Commander / Blunt have the problem of being tied to currently bad skills :x Nephalem Majesty isn't that great, really, as you'll still probably need Answered Prayer to keep the 100% 3-stack uptime.

 

[Ashodin]

Ash, first and foremost, please do not take this as a personal attack or anything of the sort. I love our clan, and I enjoy seeing you log on; each time you do so with gusto and happiness. I never see you complain, which I do frequently.

The thing is I just do not see the gain. You are currently gaining Finery and MS, so that you can become a more mobile Crusader. The fact is though, all you are truly gaining is mobility. Finery will never offset the stats that a shield brings. At most you are gaining what, 750-800 strength? That is not worth it man, it just isn't. You are losing Wrath, Armor, Block chance, secondary legendary effects, etc.

All you are gaining is mobility, that is all. Period. Which again, can be negated completely with the proper shield.

I agree with you! You're entirely right that it's uncertain whether or not what I'm gaining can outweigh the loss of a shield. In fact, I'm certain that Finery as it currently is will not be enough. My concerns and focus on the build at large is thus: whether or not it will work and still be enough without the shield. Thus far, it works. With the right weapons and gear, it will work even better. Crusaders are notoriously dependent on gear, and this is no different.

And I think you're awesome too man! I don't take it as a personal attack; I just enjoy what I do so much that I have total FERVORRRRR to defend it because I honestly believe it works. And that I can run in torment without any issues makes me feel amazing.

This is how I get my enjoyment out of the game.

 

[Vodh]

I've said time and again in this discussion that it's not about being "cool or edgy". It's about playing a different way. I can understand both you and scy resisting it because you're both about min/maxing, I understand that. More power to you, but that doesn't discount the fact that I'm making this work, and it is viable.

Well, people have said time and time again that it's not a build, it's just lack of shield. And it is indeed viable, but whatever you want to do with your build, there's a better alternative in either 2H+S or 1H+S. Wanna hit harder? 2H. Wanna hit faster? 1H+S.

What am I gaining? The ability to choose another passive over Heavenly Strength, which allows me to choose a more offensive passive (currently using Finery), and allows me to choose more movement-orienting skills. I'm trading stats for skill. Something that is harder to quantify IMO.

Trading a 600 STR on a shield for Finery? Sounds like a great fucking deal... Also, number of gems times 70 STR isn't exactly what I'd classify as 'hard to quantify'.

Anyway, all this "build" is is training wheels for when you find yourself a http://www.diablohub.com/database/item/hellskull/information/. Beyond that, it changes absolutely nothing about the play style and just gimps your stats a little bit.

Is playing with your stats a little gimped still viable? Sure. Does it make it a build? Nope, it doesn't.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I think the real question here is, what are the benefits of mobility over a shield anyways? Finery will never come close to outdoing 10% crit chance on a shield and 600 strength, especially when you could also have a socket in the shield. Mobility affects one thing directly, efficiency at farming. So unless you've got this super efficient farming route that you believe you can do in 20 minutes instead of 28 by going full mobile then I don't really see the point.

I'd argue mobility isn't even necessary in combat for a Crusader to function, the only time I want to be more mobile is when doing bounties. But even then you can just swap out for steed and a lesser 1 hander if you're jut gonna be doing them on normal anyways, and keep a spare set of prowlers or something.

If I took off my shield right now I'd lose a bit over 100k dps. No build or passives would appear to make up for that difference. If such a build exists that can match it then you've got the awkward situation where it would be better by using a shield.

Unless I'm missing some major mechanic or ability (in fact not using a shield locks you out of 3 of my favorite skills) that benefits 2 handed without a shield then all I am seeing is that you're playing a wizard with a wand and no source.

 

[A Serious Man]

The 2H/Shield passive should be baked into Crusader and Heavenly Strength should buff 1H builds somehow. I groan every time I see a 1H leg drop, there just isn't any reason to not be using a 2H as a Crusader right now.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

The 2H/Shield passive should be baked into Crusader and Heavenly Strength should buff 1H builds somehow. I groan every time I see a 1H leg drop, there just isn't any reason to not be using a 2H as a Crusader right now.

Yeah this seems to be the common consensus amomg crusaders. A passive should give us more options not less when it comes to gear.

 

[scy]

The 2H/Shield passive should be baked into Crusader and Heavenly Strength should buff 1H builds somehow. I groan every time I see a 1H leg drop, there just isn't any reason to not be using a 2H as a Crusader right now.

I would love for this, really. It really should just be a part of the class.

But maybe that's the greedy part of me talking.

 

[Ashodin]

I'd actually like for a passive that gives more tradeoffs to not using a shield IMO. But that'll never happen.

 

[scy]

I'd actually like for a passive that gives more tradeoffs to not using a shield IMO. But that'll never happen.

That'd be neat too. A lot of our passives are pretty meh in general.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Mobility is about efficiency and that is about it. I'm sure you could fathom an argument centered around how having the mobility allows you to escape arcane beams, poison pools, desecration, etc. slightly faster; but, at the end of the day it is really moot. Mobility allows for faster farming, that is really all there is to it. IF you are dying to the aforementioned effects, mobility isn't the problem.

There is a very specific reason why I'm currently using Storm Armor: Scramble and I assure you it has nothing to do with allowing me to evade/get out of negative effects. It's so I can farm exceedingly efficiently. Scramble and Bracers allow me to travel constantly at 50% MS. Elites take all of five seconds max, white mobs are a AE one shot.

What I am trying to get at here is this: Mobility is about efficiency, nothing more. Trading the efficiency of a shield for 10% MS and another passive is a bad trade. IF you want to make that trade go for it. Numerous builds are workable, if you want to argue that this makes them 'viable', be my guest. Walking to work is viable, I can do it...I'm just not going to do it.

The 2H/Shield passive should be baked into Crusader and Heavenly Strength should buff 1H builds somehow. I groan every time I see a 1H leg drop, there just isn't any reason to not be using a 2H as a Crusader right now.

Bingo.

 

[TheYanger]

DH core farming is stupid. 35 so far today. Another 14 on a friend's account I dual boxed.
http://www.twitch.tv/theyanger for a bit longer

 

[Ashodin]

Mobility is about efficiency and that is about it. I'm sure you could fathom an argument centered around how having the mobility allows you to escape arcane beams, poison pools, desecration, etc. slightly faster; but, at the end of the day it is really moot. Mobility allows for faster farming, that is really all there is to it. IF you are dying to the aforementioned effects, mobility isn't the problem.

There is a very specific reason why I'm currently using Storm Armor: Scramble and I assure you it has nothing to do with allowing me to evade/get out of negative effects. It's so I can farm exceedingly efficiently. Scramble and Bracers allow me to travel constantly at 50% MS. Elites take all of five seconds max, white mobs are a AE one shot.

What I am trying to get at here is this: Mobility is about efficiency, nothing more. Trading the efficiency of a shield for 10% MS and another passive is a bad trade. IF you want to make that trade go for it. Numerous builds are workable, if you want to argue that this makes them 'viable', be my guest. Walking to work is viable, I can do it...I'm just not going to do it..

This is the last I'll say on this because we're getting into the mindset of "efficiency" and I'd rather not go down that path - what I'm trying to do is not about efficiency at all, and never came into the equation in the first place. I'm not trying to min/max my time farming gear. I'm trying to min/max my fun.

 

[Nokterian]

I think I found the ugliest chest piece in the game...

It's ugly all right i have it also but enchanted to 3 sockets.

 

[Atlantis]

Yay, level 70 get.

Would it be the most efficient to just stick to farming Normal at this point?

 

[TheYanger]

Yay, level 70 get.

Would it be the most efficient to just stick to farming Normal at this point?

Unless you can handle torment, yeah.

 

[Zemm]

There needs to be god like drops that are only available in T6 (or perhaps even T4-T6). In D2 there were amazing items/ilvl's that you could only get in Hell difficulty (Tal's armor, etc). It gave you a real incentive to keep pushing forward. That feel when you saw a purple texted Lacquered Plate drop was orgasmic. The D3 team is on the right track, but still have some work/research to do. I don't think many of the Irvine D3 team even played the first two Diablo's, until this expansion went into production.

I liked the idea where the ranges of the potential rolls on items shrunk so the higher the difficulty the more chance of getting an item with great rolls.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

This is the last I'll say on this because we're getting into the mindset of "efficiency" and I'd rather not go down that path - what I'm trying to do is not about efficiency at all, and never came into the equation in the first place. I'm not trying to min/max my time farming gear. I'm trying to min/max my fun.

Fair enough. In no way was I trying to shit on your notion of what is fun or not. I think the only reason why I even reacted was because of the use of 'viable'. I know it is rather pedantic and honestly damned silly; it is just a term that has been tossed around in one avenue or another for years. It is something I heard first when I played Everquest; viable carries a connotation with it, it means to me that something is just as optimal as something else. X build is just as viable as Y build, etc. IF by viable someone means hey I can do something, then screw it. Yep, you can walk to work everyday, you can use the Sun to cook your dinner. Neither of the aforementioned methods are what I would consider 'viable', they are doable, they are feasible. Viability and do-ability are two separate things for me. Sorry for thread shitting, enjoy the blessed Crusader in all his might; shield bearer or not.

 

[Nymerio]

I keep finding 2H weapons with my monk. I just want my damn Thunderfury

 

[Diprosalic]

Do people like this game now?

 

[Yoshichan]

Do people like this game now?

Yes, it is god damned amazing. The thing thats stopping me from playing is the sudden urge for picking up my studies again. When I become a teacher, I am going to teach Diablo to all the kids !

 

[J-Rzez]

Yay, level 70 get.

Would it be the most efficient to just stick to farming Normal at this point?

Just do bounties non-stop on normal, you'll get legendaries plus loot from bags and shards. You'll gear up quickly that way. Only thing that you'll miss on are like set pieces, which you'll have more than enough time to bang your head against a wall trying to get them later on.

So yes, do that. Or, if you can, cheese it out and do whatever flavor of boring farming like chest farming runs. Whatever works for you.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

If Crusaders didn't have Heavenly Strength they would be kinda bad IMO. The passive makes them good but still not broken. They still aren't clearing content as fast as Wizards or DHs.

As far as your solutions go:

A) If wielding 2Hs dual wield style resulted in a damage penalty then what would be the point in using them? Like say if they reduced the damage to the value where it would be the same as 1H weapons... why not just use two 1H weapons and just save up a passive slot? If you don't reduce the damage enough then just like the Crusader everyone would use the passive. Some of the stats on 2H weapons are insane. I predict that it would be a Crusader type situation where it would be mandatory on Barbs if it's good and if it's not good then no one would waste a passive on it.

I didn't say it necessarily had to be a passive you pick. Could be baked in. If a passive, you'd definitely have to balance it properly, I'll give you that. And the reason people would pick it is sheer playstyle preference. Dual wielding 2Hers would hit slower, but harder, whereas 2 1Hers hit faster but for less each swing - build diversity would come out of that. Besides opening up avenues for new builds (and general awesomeness) around having 2 2H legendary abilities

B) 2H with sockets would be kinda broken. Remember 2 socket Manticore? Made every other Bow look like a joke.

But this would be every 2H rolling 2 sockets. Manticore was an outlier.

C) I don't see the point in buffing 1H usage with HS... if that's the case then everyone would just use 1H with Heavenly Strength if 2H Heavenly Strength had lower damage.

You're implying it would be inherently imbalanced. Assuming it wasn't, where's the problem? Making 1Hers viable with Heavenly Strength opens up a whole new range of legendary affixes (biggest offender right now being flails) as well.

D) More 2Hs have good damage the problem is that they can't compete with double sockets or 1H weapon + Source. The inherent problem is simply that Crit gems are too good.

You're right here - Crit gems are too good. Perhaps nerf them and/or (at least) buff rubies. But would it be so bad if 2Hers were brought to the current level of 2 1Hers or 1H + OH across the board? Assuming everything else stayed the same.

E) If Crusader shields rolled with + damage then they would just be Sources... but better. Think about it... they would give you + damage, blocking, crit chance plus other Crusader specific buffs. It would basically be like having HS.. but without the MS penalty and the passive slot taken up.

Is just being a better source so bad though? It might be the buff crusaders need (since it would only apply to crusader shields, not regular ones). Otherwise you tie block to more skills as a damage modifier (currently only shield bash and blessed shield), but that'd require a overview of every crusader skill, fundamentally redesigning the hero (stats-wise), which I doubt Blizzard would do at this point.

The core of the problem is simply that Dual wield or 1H + Source/Quiver option beats 2H solo. DHs don't have to worry about 2H vs 1H, for them 2Hs are better for the most part because they can carry a Quiver (so technically they always have Heavenly Strength). If you nerf the crit gems then that makes 1H + Source the best option in the game making Wizards even more powerful. If you nerf Sources/Mojos then that makes dual wielders better.

In order to make 2Hs better while not messing up the HS balance they would probably have to nerf Source/Mojo damage and the CHD gem to the point where carrying a 2H weapon matches those combinations. If after these changes Crusader ends up being the new Wizard then slightly nerf HS if you have to.

Another option might be to just allow shield sockets to provide their own unique and powerful bonuses (which could bring shield using barbs, monks, and yes, melee DHs back into the mix).

That's besides my comment at the end of my post which is probably the most straightforward:

There's also the option of just baking the Heavenly Strength bonus into the class rather than having it as pretty much a mandatory passive.

No matter what, it's an open-ended problem with multiple solutions, so I'm curious to see how it will be addressed.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Yes, it is god damned amazing. The thing thats stopping me from playing is the sudden urge for picking up my studies again. When I become a teacher, I am going to teach Diablo to all the kids !

I'm having to take a night and potentially the next few weeks off. D3 landed at the worst time possible, I'm in my last semester of graduate courses and it is wrecking my studies. Arrogant Bastard, hopefully teaching at a Jr./Community college near you this fall.

 

[V_Arnold]

Yes, it is god damned amazing. The thing thats stopping me from playing is the sudden urge for picking up my studies again. When I become a teacher, I am going to teach Diablo to all the kids !

Teach them how to optimize their farming routes by the power of ma** - oh, do not use THAT word.

 

[KuroNeeko]

Wish I could play... But stuck with parental visits.

One day you'll appreciate how much unconditional love your parents poured into you. Diablo can wait - show them a good time!

 

[Ashodin]

One day you'll appreciate how much unconditional love your parents poured into you. Diablo can wait - show them a good time!

I'm already done with that lol!

 

[Trickster]

Do people like this game now?

It's fun as long as you need upgrades for the character(s) you want to play. Once it starts getting hard to find upgrades however, the lack of trading really start to hurt the game. My wizard reached that point 2 days ago, and I just stopped playing due to lack of incentive to continue really.

Also, if you disliked the stats on items like str/int/dex/vit/all res/crit chance/crit dmg and so on. You will find that those are all still there, and as important as ever, unfortunately. Only difference is that now legendary items tend to have an additional legendary affix on them. Some of which such utter ass, and others being incredibly strong.

 

[V_Arnold]

It's fun as long as you need upgrades for the character(s) you want to play. Once it starts getting hard to find upgrades however, the lack of trading really start to hurt the game. My wizard reached that point 2 days ago, and I just stopped playing due to lack of incentive to continue really.

Also, if you disliked the stats on items like str/int/dex/vit/all res/crit chance/crit dmg and so on. You will find that those are all still there, and as important as ever, unfortunately. Only difference is that now legendary items tend to have an additional legendary affix on them. Some of which such utter ass, and others being incredibly strong.

While I agree with you that there is not much to do other than being able to farm Torment 4-5-6, in Vanilla, the same thing persisted, only with MP levels. But of course, the situation is better in RoS's case. You play if you have fun, that is the main incentive. The gameplay is supposed to be fun. It is for me, but PoE's grip is still harder on my soul.

 

[fedexpeon]

One day you'll appreciate how much unconditional love your parents poured into you. Diablo can wait - show them a good time!

This.
Eff Diablo if your parents are in town.
I drive 2hrs each weekend to visit my parents.

 

[MattPeters]

Has anyone crafted the Wall of Man shield? I was looking at it on the blacksmith, and the block amount seems really fuckin low. It's like a 3rd of what my lvl 70 rare shield is. It is a tooltip error, or is it just a crappy shield to begin with?

 

[scy]

Has anyone crafted the Wall of Man shield? I was looking at it on the blacksmith, and the block amount seems really fuckin low. It's like a 3rd of what my lvl 70 rare shield is. It is a tooltip error, or is it just a crappy shield to begin with?

It's a bug.

The shield's proc also does not work.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

It's fun as long as you need upgrades for the character(s) you want to play. Once it starts getting hard to find upgrades however, the lack of trading really start to hurt the game. My wizard reached that point 2 days ago, and I just stopped playing due to lack of incentive to continue really.

Also, if you disliked the stats on items like str/int/dex/vit/all res/crit chance/crit dmg and so on. You will find that those are all still there, and as important as ever, unfortunately. Only difference is that now legendary items tend to have an additional legendary affix on them. Some of which such utter ass, and others being incredibly strong.

So basically it is an ARPG?

Look, D3 is in the best state that it has ever been in. Additionally, it is without any doubt the most polished ARPG on the market currently. As a game type, ARPG's are inherently difficult to garner long term support. You are talking about a massive balance game between giving players upgrades and trying to keep them playing. Give players upgrades too quickly, and they quit due to boredom. Give players upgrades too slowly, and they quit due to a lack of progression. Out of all the games out there, ARPG's are one of the hardest to get right. D3 fucked it hard prior to 2.0, there is really no doubt about this. The game was a complete shit fest (technical term), regardless Blizzard has made an attempt to re-invent the wheel. As a game, as an ARPG, it is without any doubt the best out there.

In the end the biggest problem within the ARPG genre...happens to be the players. OMG, do not stone me. It is true, hurts doesn't it? Players today want instant gratification, they want quick progression, etc. Guess what kiddos, ARPG's are not about instant gratification or quick progression. You aren't getting a new map pack in four months, you aren't getting another DLC drop in six months, grinding is THE game. ARPG's do not mesh well with today's gamer's. Sad, but true.

Figure out what you want out of D3. If you want to level each class to 70, farm up some gear, and hit T1 for a bit; do so. You will be able to do that with relative ease, far easier than ever before. If you are wanting to farm Torment 6, then you are looking at the long haul.

TLR; D3 is the most polished ARPG on the market. It is in the best state that it has ever been in, this is how the game should have launched. Regardless, it is still an ARPG, if you do not want to grind at all then GTFO.

 

[KuroNeeko]

I played a wizard in vanilla D3 mostly because my main in D2 was a tri-elemental sorceress. The class is fun, and definitely powerful, but I've branched out since other people are flocking to the class.

Monk has been a lot of fun. They're so mobile! Teleport, nuke, teleport, nuke feels bad arse. Still only level 15 or so though, so I don't know how viable that will be down the road. (Hardcore)

A few questions -

1) Demon Hunter. My main in Diablo was a Archer. I like ranged classes. I've played one up to about level 16 or now in Hardcore and she seems lacklaster. I don't mean damage-wise - more like she doesn't seem very deep. I like Vault. I like Caltrops. The primary attacks, as well as the secondary attacks don't seem very interesting. I use Entangling Shot for control and Rapid Fire for single-target damage.

Does it get more interesting? Does she fun skills coming down the road? Why would anyone choose DH over Wizard?

2) Witch Doctor. I really enjoy WD. I play a petless build mostly using Spirit Barrage, Acid Rain, and Haunt. Recently I've been playing around with Poison and Bad Medicine. Are petless builds going to be viable late-game?

3) Crusader. I don't like shields. I don't like how they look. I like that they keep me alive but that's it. I like Smite. My crusader is about level 11 right now. I want to make her like a Holy Paladin in WoW where I play a mid-range spell caster. Can I do that at the later levels? I'm not concerned with damage, rather if the class has the tools or not.

- I play Hardcore exclusively so please keep that in mind!

Thanks!

I'm already done with that lol!

Just saw that. Still catching up in the thread!

Not hounding you or anything, but you'll see what I mean if you decide to have kids one day. Now, back to CRUSADERING!

In the end the biggest problem within the ARPG genre...happens to be the players. OMG, do not stone me. It is true, hurts doesn't it? Players today want instant gratification, they want quick progression, etc. Guess what kiddos, ARPG's are not about instant gratification or quick progression. You aren't getting a new map pack in four months, you aren't getting another DLC drop in six months, grinding is THE game. ARPG's do not mesh well with today's gamer's. Sad, but true.

Figure out what you want out of D3. If you want to level each class to 70, farm up some gear, and hit T1 for a bit; do so. You will be able to do that with relative ease, far easier than ever before. If you are wanting to farm Torment 6, then you are looking at the long haul.

TLR; D3 is the most polished ARPG on the market. It is in the best state that it has ever been in, this is how the game should have launched. Regardless, it is still an ARPG, if you do not want to grind at all then GTFO.

Yeah, I can get behind this. The challenge is adapting the ARPG genre to fit today's player. I think it's possible. I don't think DIII:RoS is as that point yet, nor is Path of Exile. I play hardcore exclusively because of the threat of losing it all. Part of it is OC-ego driven. If my character IS supposed to save the world, what she doing getting ganked by some Fallen scrub? Plus, you really get attached to your hardcore characters. Each near-death is that much more intense and you play differently than softcore because you're not just throwing yourself balls-to-the-wall at bosses.

That's just me though.
I think Ladders will help for people who like the game and genre.

Casuals will probably hang around for another month or so.

 

[TheYanger]

I played a wizard in vanilla D3 mostly because my main in D2 was a tri-elemental sorceress. The class is fun, and definitely powerful, but I've branched out since other people are flocking to the class.

Monk has been a lot of fun. They're so mobile! Teleport, nuke, teleport, nuke feels bad arse. Still only level 15 or so though, so I don't know how viable that will be down the road. (Hardcore)

A few questions -

1) Demon Hunter. My main in Diablo was a Archer. I like ranged classes. I've played one up to about level 16 or now in Hardcore and she seems lacklaster. I don't mean damage-wise - more like she doesn't seem very deep. I like Vault. I like Caltrops. The primary attacks, as well as the secondary attacks don't seem very interesting. I use Entangling Shot for control and Rapid Fire for single-target damage.

Demon Hunters are much more about skillful movement around the battlefield than wizards, To avoid damage on a DH you really need to utilize vault and their other skills, which is fun. I wouldn't say there's a ton fo complexity in actually using their builders and spenders though.

 

[Solid Amit]

Finally! After dropping like 15 souls to get that crit chance. Was starting to think it being on the list was incorrect. Never thought I'd be running sacrifice in a full on summon build like mine, but this makes that oh so amazing/viable. Honestly this is probably a best in slot item for me until the next expansion.

Where did that drop from?! Gotta get it!

 

[ZenaxPure]

3) Crusader. I don't like shields. I don't like how they look. I like that they keep me alive but that's it. I like Smite. My crusader is about level 11 right now. I want to make her like a Holy Paladin in WoW where I play a mid-range spell caster. Can I do that at the later levels? I'm not concerned with damage, rather if the class has the tools or not.

My friend is rolling with a mid range build and it works fine for him. When we do coop he is actually nearly exclusively ranged because most enemies just gravitate toward me anyway (since I am a melee barbarian). He uses hammers instead of smite (though smite is probably fine) and his wrath spender is fist of the heavens with fissure, basically he tosses a few around the area and uses judgement to trap them inside where the various fists/fissures kills them. For elite packs/bosses he just uses bombardment because it's strong. He has been having a lot of fun with it.

 

[Boombloxer]

800k+ dps and 6.5m toughness.

I wanted to hit 1M dps before doing Torment runs, but I just tried it and its pretty easy.

Wizard forever.

 

[Acidote]

About to break the million dps and 9M toughness. Yesterday I finally had interesting drops:

So I'm trying a Ray of frost build now. If I can get some more +arcane power for crits I'll set Ray of frost as the main hability and frozen orb as the secondary. I'm wishing for a good Azurewrath now.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Where did that drop from?! Gotta get it!

It does not matter what it dropped from, you cannot farm items in this manner. RNG, RNG, RNG. You could just as easily get this item from a pack of elite mobs in Act 1 as Act 3, or a boss mob, or a chest, or a floor tile.

 

[Solid Amit]

It does not matter what it dropped from, you cannot farm items in this manner. RNG, RNG, RNG. You could just as easily get this item from a pack of elite mobs in Act 1 as Act 3, or a boss mob, or a chest, or a floor tile.

What's RNG? The npc who you gamble shards in?

 

[Boogalogist]

RNG is Lady Luck's mood swings...

 

[jersoc]

rnjesus finally blessed me this day. 2 nice upgrades. got a pretty good roll on board walkers with almost top int.

the hunt for a thunderfuy, however, continues.

 

[Pepto]

Where did that drop from?! Gotta get it!

If you want it you have to do Core of Arreat chest runs over and over and over again. If you are doing full 8 hours per day it will drop the fourth day.

 

[Ashodin]

So after our conversation earlier, I realized I was playing near zero Diablo from it haha. Was kinda sad that I'd be finding no legs tonight! Then three dropped into my lap. A Neck to draw in enemies, the 50% dmg reduction shield (gave to DH) and Shi Mizu's which also dropped on Melee DH.

 

[Solid Amit]

For all of you Witch Doctors, I've seen some build and most of the Witch Doctors uses FireBats-Vampire Batsand not Soul Barrage-Well of Souls?
Whys that?