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[RoninChaos]

Yeah, I think it's too heavy handed as well. It kind of makes sense as a temporary solution as the AH shuts down, just to sort of calm the waters or whatever, but having absolutely no way to trade anything meaningful is a pretty bad choice for this type of game. It's sadly yet another way one could look at Path of the Exile and see them doing something interesting and effective while D3 is still struggling to get it right. And this is coming from someone who only liked PoE enough to put a couple of hours into it.

I think you'll see people fall away after a few months of the expansion. You're a wow player, so you know how fucking awful RNG can be. I can't see a reason why to use the wow BoA or soulbound model in a game like this. It seems like it was a choice made to try and artificially extend playtime. They did the same thing with the AH when the drops were tuned so badly so the only way to get what you wanted was to keep playing or go to the AH. If you kept playing, great, or if you went to the AH it was even better because it made blizz cash. Switching all the pieces worth a shit to only account bound doesn't make much sense as a mechanism to keep people playing because Diablo isn't an MMO. There aren't exactly tons of other things to do in this game. It's all about killing shit and getting loot. If you can't get the loot you want, eventually people will leave since there's no other means to get good loot besides kills.

 

[MrDaravon]

100% sure that the current lack of trading is a technical limitation on their end.

The game is able to flag a leg for the players in the party when it actually dropped because those players are actually in the game, which is why/how they have the current timer trade window. I'd bet anything that they have no way of flagging an item to allow it to be traded to anyone on your friends list or clan only (which was my idea/solution), probably too much on the backend for them to do with the game as-is.

So to have any trading beyond the current restrictions would have to be completely wide-open, and they very clearly don't want this since once there can be any sort of open trading you immediately introduce the gray/black market and 3rd parties which they are very openly against.

 

[Anoregon]

100% sure that the current lack of trading is a technical limitation on their end.

The game is able to flag a leg for the players in the party when it actually dropped because those players are actually in the game, which is why/how they have the current timer trade window. I'd bet anything that they have no way of flagging an item to allow it to be traded to anyone on your friends list or clan only (which was my idea/solution), probably too much on the backend for them to do with the game as-is.

So to have any trading beyond the current restrictions would have to be completely wide-open, and they very clearly don't want this since once there can be any sort of open trading you immediately introduce the gray/black market and 3rd parties which they are very openly against.

I think they just need to bite the bullet and get over their "if there's no blizzard profit off item sales, NO ONE CAN!" mentality. The fact alone that there isn't an official method to easily sell/buy items with the removal of the AH is significant enough. The AH was a huge deal beacause it was a central game feature. Forcing people who want to sell/buy items for RL cash to go to third party sites will deter a majority of players from attempting to sell items just by virtue of being third party sites.

 

[Sciz]

Yeah, I think it's too heavy handed as well. It kind of makes sense as a temporary solution as the AH shuts down, just to sort of calm the waters or whatever, but having absolutely no way to trade anything meaningful is a pretty bad choice for this type of game. It's sadly yet another way one could look at Path of the Exile and see them doing something interesting and effective while D3 is still struggling to get it right. And this is coming from someone who only liked PoE enough to put a couple of hours into it.

PoE's convergence of currency and crafting material is an interesting idea, but the good stuff's so rare that in practice everyone just hoards it to trade for items of value instead of risking it on the preposterous RNG, and the whole thing doesn't end up being any different from any other ARPG economy.

 

[Anoregon]

PoE's convergence of currency and crafting material is an interesting idea, but the good stuff's so rare that in practice everyone just hoards it to trade for items of value instead of risking it on the preposterous RNG, and the whole thing doesn't end up being any different from any other ARPG economy.

It's a functional economy, though. D3 literally has no economy at this point.

 

[Granadier]

Has anyone thought of the idea that Blizzard may just be testing the waters to see how the playstyle changes with the AH gone?

Things can always change in the future. Hell, the freaking AH is gone, one of the central pieces of the game from launch, so there can always be things added or removed in patches after the expansion.

This time period before release is all just temporary. Everything is going to change after launch in regards to how you play and what you want.

"if there's no blizzard profit off item sales, NO ONE CAN!"

I don't think they have this mentality at all, and I think you are overreacting.

 

[MrDaravon]

I think they just need to bite the bullet and get over their "if there's no blizzard profit off item sales, NO ONE CAN!" mentality. The fact alone that there isn't an official method to easily sell/buy items with the removal of the AH is significant enough. The AH was a huge deal beacause it was a central game feature. Forcing people who want to sell/buy items for RL cash to go to third party sites will deter a majority of players from attempting to sell items just by virtue of being third party sites.

There's no trading now though. Everything is account bound in RoS. The new gems, mats, gold, everything. With the way they've set this up, the only possible market for trading would be on really really good rare quality items, which is obviously a very limited market. They are very intentionally completely eliminating the 3rd party market here.

In regards to the philosophy behind it, I'm sure there's some element of them not making any money from it, but they have a history of being unhappy with black market sites and whatnot (which I don't blame them for). In this case I literally can't think of any reason why they however wouldn't allow trading to people who were on your friends list or clan when the item dropped to be tradeable, which just leads me to believe that it would have to be all or nothing due to tech issues, and their desire to eliminate the 3rd party black market is overriding users being able to trade a bit more openly.

 

[dk_]

When will the preorder wings unlock?

 

[Sciz]

It's a functional economy, though. D3 literally has no economy at this point.

Yeah, I'll give you that. They seem hellbent on tuning the game such that it doesn't need one, though, which I think is ultimately an attainable goal, even if they're not there quite yet. Curious to see how the RoS features we're still missing impact the overall experience.

 

[Granadier]

In this case I literally can't think of any reason why they however wouldn't allow trading to people who were on your friends list or clan when the item dropped to be tradeable, which just leads me to believe that it would have to be all or nothing due to tech issues, and their desire to eliminate the 3rd party black market is overriding users being able to trade a bit more openly.

I think that commodities could work for trading between clan members or Bnet friends, but any trading of legendary/set pieces could negatively impact their rarity and prestige.

Similar to how WoW binds gear to your account / character, if legendary/set items started to become commonplace through trading they would become much less valuable.

Currently having a specific, sought after legendary, (Kridershot for example), brings with it the prestige for your character that you would get by having say Thunderfury on your WoW character. And that makes players happy.

Keep in mind, we are not dealing with Diablo 2 anymore. Diablo 3 is a much more open and connected game, so it requires different solutions to problems then Diablo 2 did.

When will the preorder wings unlock?

Tomorrow, 3/20/14, but I'm not sure at what time.

 

[inky]

Has anyone thought of the idea that Blizzard may just be testing the waters to see how the playstyle changes with the AH gone?

Things can always change in the future. Hell, the freaking AH is gone, one of the central pieces of the game from launch, so there can always be things added or removed in patches after the expansion.

Considering the time it takes them to make significant changes. No.

I feel they now want a game where there is 0 time spent looking for loot anywhere but during killing monsters (and crafting obviously, which implies many monsters have been killed to acquire the needed materials).

 

[Nokterian]

Whyyyyyy does it take sooo long! Man been a longtime that i was really excited. RoS does what it should have 2 years ago but i am glad that it happend.

 

[RoninChaos]

Has anyone thought of the idea that Blizzard may just be testing the waters to see how the playstyle changes with the AH gone?

Things can always change in the future. Hell, the freaking AH is gone, one of the central pieces of the game from launch, so there can always be things added or removed in patches after the expansion.

This time period before release is all just temporary. Everything is going to change after launch in regards to how you play and what you want.



I don't think they have this mentality at all, and I think you are overreacting.

No, they really do. The AH was a direct reaction to what happened to D2 and to WoW, but instead of creating it to facilitate what players wanted to do (trade) they wanted their cut too. Which is a huge reason why vanilla diablo sucked so bad. It punished the players and pushed them towards a model that makes blizz money.

Blizz made over 200 MILLION on micro transactions from WoW. They're going to have these kinds of things in most games going forward. Diablo 3 was really the first game where they kind of put that front and center. Removing the AH completely from the game after the retune really does seem like "If blizz can't make something off the trade, there won't be any trading" when it comes to high end items.

 

[BolognaOni]

I think it's more about the killing mobs being fun or not than just the loot. If getting the loot is the only point, then people are going to quit once they trade for the loot, and adding trading doesn't really help much.

Really, getting enough "build changing" loot is what keeps the game fun for me. If you're dead set on putting together a best-in-slot set, the BoA only system is probably going to drive you nuts. If you just roll with it and have fun, it probably won't bother you as much.

 

[MrDaravon]

I think that commodities could work for trading between clan members or Bnet friends, but any trading of legendary/set pieces could negatively impact their rarity and prestige.

Similar to how WoW binds gear to your account / character, if legendary/set items started to become commonplace through trading they would become much less valuable.

Currently having a specific, sought after legendary, (Kridershot for example), brings with it the prestige for your character that you would get by having say Thunderfury on your WoW character. And that makes players happy.

Keep in mind, we are not dealing with Diablo 2 anymore. Diablo 3 is a much more open and connected game, so it requires different solutions to problems then Diablo 2 did.



Tomorrow, 3/20/14, but I'm not sure at what time.

If they allowed commodity trading freely between friends/clanmates it would still immediately re-introduce the black market though, so I dunno. I have mixed feelings about it because I hated the fact that in vanilla if you look at the top players you could usually find out how much they paid for each piece of their gear. On the other hand, it's bullshit that if I'm playing 2 hours before my friend gets on and I find something fucking awesome I can't give it to them. I'm hoping they reach a middle ground at some point, but I'm thinking it's not gonna happen, at least any time soon.

Also I have a Kridershot AND a Thunderfury in Diablo now, what do I get?

 

[neoism]

Can't remember if I ever posted this in the other thread, so gonna repost here.

Testing a bunch of +CS and +lightning dmg gear on my monk.

Sheet dps of ~115k which clears things faster than my ~250k dps set. Shows exactly why sheet dps means NOTHING in terms of actual dps, at least for monks anyway.

Vid of a T3 run

Armory Link

Yep, I changed my Shenlong socketed + crit gem for a fulminator (Using Thunderfury with Fulminator) and while I lost like 50K DPS things are melting faster than ever, go figure...

This loot 2.0 is no joke, I went from struggling with my monk in expert difficulty to fight comfortably in Torment 3 in two days.

I'm so addicted to this game. Loot, give me the loooooooots.

ok WTF do I do then I can't even do T1 without dying to like every other elite???


my monk

 

[br3wnor]

Considering the time it takes them to make significant changes. No.

I feel they now want a game where there is 0 time spent looking for loot anywhere but during killing monsters (and crafting obviously, which implies many monsters have been killed to acquire the needed materials).

That's fine with me. The whole point of the loot is to get stronger to kill more monsters, the whole point of the game is the combat leading into loot grind.

 

[RoninChaos]

I think that commodities could work for trading between clan members or Bnet friends, but any trading of legendary/set pieces could negatively impact their rarity and prestige.

Similar to how WoW binds gear to your account / character, if legendary/set items started to become commonplace through trading they would become much less valuable.

That legendary example doesn't really work since a ton of people in wow have legendaries now. I suspect it isn't about prestige, it's because blizz saw the negative reaction to the AH and the game in general and that was the only way they could see setting up trading in this game. And since that was met with such negative reaction they're removing it entirely. The extra step is making everything account bound, which seems like a strong reaction to the trading that happend in d2. In d2 powerful weapons were trade currency and people went to websites to facilitate those trades. With blizz making everything account bound, that market won't even have a chance to exist.

And btw, GREAT avatar.

 

[MrDaravon]

ok WTF do I do then I can't even do T1 without dying to like every other elite???


my monk

I'm not the best Monk player to ask, but at a glance your toughness is real low; my Monk has like triple your Toughness at about the same DPS. Also we can't see how any paragon points you have are distributed, but you could really use some sustain. First thing I pump on all my characters with their points are Life on Hit and Life Regen. Basically you need to get your survivability way up.

 

[scy]

I eagerly await in ~1.5 years when the AH gets added back to the game due to Community feedback.

Edit:

ok WTF do I do then I can't even do T1 without dying to like every other elite???


my monk

Erm, why Fleet Footed over Seize the Initiative?

 

[itllgrobak]

ok WTF do I do then I can't even do T1 without dying to like every other elite???


my monk

I'm no expert but your Toughness looks very low, I think my monks is over a Million and I can handle T2 fine.
Edit: beaten

 

[Granadier]

If they allowed commodity trading freely between friends/clanmates it would still immediately re-introduce the black market though, so I dunno. I have mixed feelings about it because I hated the fact that in vanilla if you look at the top players you could usually find out how much they paid for each piece of their gear. On the other hand, it's bullshit that if I'm playing 2 hours before my friend gets on and I find something fucking awesome I can't give it to them. I'm hoping they reach a middle ground at some point, but I'm thinking it's not gonna happen, at least any time soon.

This is a very valid point. I have personally experienced the feeling of getting an awesome item that would work great for my friend, but they weren't online at the time or just simply weren't in my game.
If they introduce the trading between clan/friends then there will be black market abuse by people joining clans or friending others just to trade.

One way that they could get around this is by implementing trade lockouts for friends and clans. Players could be prevented from trading if they newly joined a clan, or if they recently added a friend. Something like 1-2 day or up to a week would significantly impact people trying to sell goods on the black market.

Also I have a Kridershot AND a Thunderfury in Diablo now, what do I get?

And btw, GREAT avatar.

Thank you. My sister actually made it for me, so I will pass along your praise.

 

[MrDaravon]

One way that they could get around this is by implementing trade lockouts for friends and clans. Players could be prevented from trading if they newly joined a clan, or if they recently added a friend. Something like 1-2 day or up to a week would significantly impact people trying to sell goods on the black market.

This was exactly my idea as a solution, but like I said if they could do this I see literally no reason why they wouldn't have already done this, so that's why I feel like it's a tech issue with the way the game is built.

 

[Granadier]

This was exactly my idea as a solution, but like I said if they could do this I see literally no reason why they wouldn't have already done this, so that's why I feel like it's a tech issue with the way the game is built.

That could be. They may be holding off on implementing it until RoS is out and stable.
Doing a full switchover + taking the AH down + lauching a massive expansion seems like an recipe for an enormous amount of bugs and a lot of angry players.

 

[Ashodin]

I'm a.... Melee DH!

I bestow upon you the badge of our order

 

[RoninChaos]

Also I have a Kridershot AND a Thunderfury in Diablo now, what do I get?

Nothing, cause you can't trade shit! lol

 

[Granadier]

I bestow upon you the badge of our order

omg

did you just make that?

 

[Shifty76]

ok WTF do I do then I can't even do T1 without dying to like every other elite???


my monk

Can't check bnet links, but it sounds like your toughness is a little low

Resists: For T1 I'd try to be around 500 all resist absolute minimum. Add another ~75 per torment level.

Armour: You really want StI to boost armour. Even with the nerf it's still a free ~800+ armour.

HP and dodge really aren't good indicators of toughness. Dodge is unreliable, and doesn't even work on most ground effects.

Not sure what your sustain is, but for T1 I'd think you could get away with ~500 LoH and 500 LpS - my baby monk with 2.0 gear only is sitting at around 80k dps / 1.6m toughness (resists @ 700, armour @ 4.8k) and is running T3 in a group with no issue

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I want to try melee DH.

...but Krindershot

 

[MrDaravon]

Ash is insane, but I really like how hard he's leaning into this.

 

[Ashodin]

omg

did you just make that?

hell yeah son

you got to be brave to be in the order. real brave. you are going in without 30% melee reduction, and all you got is your tricks and your shield. The demons will be afraid as they have no idea that demon hunters will be in their faces like this.

 

[BolognaOni]

So clan trading- do you really think it's possible to tune drop rates so that an "average" player can get acceptably geared on their own, while maintaining a similar curve for a player in a large clan? I'd imagine they'd need to turn drop rates down at least somewhat, and then risk returning to a situation where trading becomes mandatory.

I dunno, as nice as it would be to share drops, having individual loot just seems like the best overall option to me.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I'm going to try and make a stunlock Barb. Stomp and leap and hammer every encounter into a 1 sided affair. Must stack up on Paragon points and cooldown reduction gear.

 

[Giggzy]

I crafted the Hallowed Defenders, but you'll be needing to look for a sick 1H weapon that has Dex, +% damage, and a socket. Those are your stats you want for more damage.

Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ÜberErik-1461/hero/41759441

I crafted that 1H yesterday, not great obviously but it's been a decent starting point

 

[Dahbomb]

Mobs have CC resistance that adds up if you keep stunning them.

Otherwise every class could perma stun mobs.

 

[Granadier]

hell yeah son

you got to be brave to be in the order. real brave. you are going in without 30% melee reduction, and all you got is your tricks and your shield. The demons will be afraid as they have no idea that demon hunters will be in their faces like this.

I'm going to convert my DH this weekend simply because of your emblem

Spoiler

even though the h isn't capitalized

If only we could emblazon that emblem onto our shields.

I'm going to try and make a stunlock Barb. Stomp and leap and hammer every encounter into a 1 sided affair. Must stack up on Paragon points and cooldown reduction gear.

This is precisely why 2.0 made this game so much better.

The "I think I'm going to try out this build..." mentality is back!!

 

[neoism]

I eagerly await in ~1.5 years when the AH gets added back to the game due to Community feedback.

Edit:



Erm, why Fleet Footed over Seize the Initiative?

is it just me or does adding paragon points in movement speed not up it at all. is it capped at 25% that is too fucking slow I have 32% which is still to slow I want 60+% always :/

 

[Giggzy]

I'm going to convert my DH this weekend simply because of your emblem

Spoiler

even though the h isn't capitalized

If only we could emblazon that emblem onto our shields.

Petition needs to be started so we can at least put them on our banners!

 

[Granadier]

Petition needs to be started so we can at least put them on our banners!

Didn't think of that, but clan emblems on banners seems like a necessity.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Mobs have CC resistance that adds up if you keep stunning them.

Otherwise every class could perma stun mobs.

Don't shit in my cereal DH. I'm gonna build it and you can't stop me.

 

[RS4-]

I'm at 156k and 2.4m toughness.

Sadly I only have one socket throughout my whole setup, and that's an emerald on one of my weapons. RNG crafting for my chest is just brutal. No sockets on my inna's.

 

[neoism]

Can't check bnet links, but it sounds like your toughness is a little low

Resists: For T1 I'd try to be around 500 all resist absolute minimum. Add another ~75 per torment level.

Armour: You really want StI to boost armour. Even with the nerf it's still a free ~800+ armour.

HP and dodge really aren't good indicators of toughness. Dodge is unreliable, and doesn't even work on most ground effects.

Not sure what your sustain is, but for T1 I'd think you could get away with ~500 LoH and 500 LpS - my baby monk with 2.0 gear only is sitting at around 80k dps / 1.6m toughness (resists @ 700, armour @ 4.8k) and is running T3 in a group with no issue

k will do thanks fo all the replys I have a lot of stored gear I will experiment with to see if I can get meh toughness up without losing to much dps

 

[Giggzy]

I'm always discovering nuances of the Melee DH, for example:

• Fan of Knives can be used IN THE MIDDLE OF Vault's animation. Meaning, you can deal damage while invincible.
• Using sentries, you can hang out of melee if it's too harsh while they fire away and then Vault back into the fray
• Vaulting as an opener is satisfying as fuck. You vault in, drop FOK, and things explode. Drop more if necessary.
• With Shuriken Cloud, Andariel's Visage, and any more AOE you can collect that deals damage right next to you in melee, you can keep the damage flowing like wine.

You can also fan of knives while using grenades at the same time. Gain hatred while spending it

 

[MartyStu]

Yea it doesn't mean much for Monks when you have +% skill and +% element mods on your gear. It's similar with Wizards too although they have a bugged skill so it's hard to say how well they actually are doing.

ESPECIALLY when Monks have a skill like Exploding Palm. If you have the Fist of Aztarask then you can clear mobs faster than people who have 300K DPS at around 100K "sheet" DPS.

This is one of the better things that D3 has done now... going for e peen DPS numbers is not the end all to improve your character.

Which skill is this?

 

[Ashodin]

You can also fan of knives while using grenades at the same time. Gain hatred while spending it

This is exactly what I do! Huzzah!

Also your 1H is great but needs a socket. Adds HUGE DPS to our sheets. Be on the lookout for a better shield too, you've got some good stats on that one, but needs Dex, and needs Crit. Also you don't want Fear on your gear at all. Stun, Slow, Chill is awesome.

 

[Shifty76]

Mobs have CC resistance that adds up if you keep stunning them.

Otherwise every class could perma stun mobs.

Supposedly, but my stun monk can perma-stun anything provided I can feed the spirit needed to keep up the bell spam.

Ran some people through Act 4 the other day and shadow diablo couldn't even summon the shadow clones as he/she was stunned the entire time.

 

[Dahbomb]

Which skill is this?

Frozen Orb, the one that every Wizard is using right now. It hits like 3 times. Reminds me of Nether Tentacles back in pre nerf Inferno days.

Edit: Shifty don't you have a stun fist Legendary? Now that shit definitely perma stuns. I can normally keep bosses stunned for a really long time with LTK though.

 

[Shifty76]

Frozen Orb, the one that every Wizard is using right now. It hits like 3 times. Reminds me of Nether Tentacles back in pre nerf Inferno days.

Edit: Shifty don't you have a stun fist Legendary? Now that shit definitely perma stuns. I can normally keep bosses stunned for a really long time with LTK though.

I do, but haven't used it for a while as I didn't find the stuns to be all that reliable, especially vs elites. Stun via bells however...that shit locks down EVERYTHING. It's pretty silly really - it's just as effective, if not moreso due to not being a glass cannon, than pre 2.0 CM Wiz freeze locks.

 

[scy]

also probably easier on the skill spamming

 

[ShinNL]

So a pal of mine is streaming and he says he prefers high quality over efficient bandwidth.

My connection can't watch it properly, so I think it's a bad idea. Do you think it's a good idea if he wants more viewers? (newbie streamers don't get quality options in their streams)

If you wanna take a look yourself:
http://www.twitch.tv/suepahfly