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Diablo III: Reaper of Souls |OT2| Enchantress: Look! More hidden loot!
- Thread starter Yoshichan
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And Shard of Hate.
Yeah, a possibility is to have spenders be buffed based on generator usage, like Rogue combo points in WoW.
I mean, you may feel that way but it's not the reality of how the game was designed. The 4 classes at their very core all have 1 page of "primary" resource generators followed by various resource dumps. I don't really see a reason monks primary attacks should be buffed up while the other 3 classes have to have useless abilities they need to get away from because they are so bad. I'm not really arguing against any such change obviously, all I'm saying is that at the core monk isn't any different than the other 3 from a design standpoint so if they made the generate -> dump loop work for monk there is no realistic reason it shouldn't work for the other classes as well.
As for it feeling un-fun I agree, that is why I think they should all give much more resource. I don't think the solution is to make those abilities hit harder because then you are still spending like 2x the amount of time generating as you are spending, the real answer is to make it so the primary attacks are actually competitive with stuff like provoke and prep: punishment in terms of speed it takes to fill up your resource. If something like punish generated 20 wrath per hit you could fill up your entire bar in like 2 seconds then spend equal or more time doing other stuff. It wouldn't be an utterly wasted ability.
I understand where you are coming from but the game for those 4 classes is already designed around the generate -> spend loop so they need to actually fix it so it works or redesign all of those abilities so they behave differently.
The problem with just making the spenders better is it reinforces just using spenders. You start to steer away from the loop entirely. That's why I wanted the set bonus to be tied with generating spirit and then one bonus that is tied with spending spirit. Get both sides of it and it still allows for flexibility in removing set slots for other gear options later.
This. I remember being most interested in the Monk going into D3 because of how much I liked the idea of the generator / spender loop. Unfortunately, I ended up playing other classes instead and most my Monk time was spent on TR builds.
At their core, they're not different but I would say Monk is given more design around their generators. They already have Mythic Rhythm, for instance. I'm saying to take that idea and make it bigger and better, basically. Keep in mind that Monks also don't have any base regen or other ways to generate it natively (e.g., not from dealing / taking damage, no active skill to pop to restore it) so they're already designed more around using their generator. Combined with their original design being closer in terms of generator / spender damage and their itemization at release, it comes together. I can't speak for fenderputty but my view was just that Monk's should keep to sticking to the generator -> spender loop with their set as opposed to most other end-game sets that completely remove it (e.g., Crusader).
That said, none of this really goes against fixing other classes on their generator -> spender loop. But I don't know if there really is a way to fix them. Like, you can make generators compare to Provoke but it'll still come down to there being a best item for generating resource in the shortest amount of time. Really, Provoke will most likely always win since it lacks an animation. Unless the generators are so much better at it that you'd deal more damage and generate faster using them, I guess.
And making the generator generate more still wouldn't fix the problem, really, though it would be a good start in making some builds less annoying. You'd still have a generator you try to use as little as possible, increasing the amount just means you're spending less time using it. I feel like the best fix to it is to make the generator more integral to things if the goal is to actually reward the generator / spender loop. The current state of the game is to just not use the generator because you can get away from it entirely / use other skills that do other things while generating.
And, just in case, do note this was about a set bonus and not a base class change. If we were talking about overall changes to the game, this would be a different conversation. I was just saying about what I was hoping the Raiment set change would have been. I agree that in general the whole generator -> spender loop needs some looking at for the classes that use them.
Well, I do realize that which was the basis for everything I said. To me it seems insanely obvious that redesigning the set would just be some gimmicky thing instead of having anything to do with generators because as far as Blizzard is concerned generators are working as intended. Or have we all forgotten one of the first RoS patches where they said "Hey these generators suck so to fix it we are going to increase the base damage of them all!" That is really my main point here. The way Blizz sees it these abilities serve the same purpose across the 4 classes (which sure, they do technically) and they working perfectly so the obvious solution is to design the set around something like dashing strike. And I just see them doing this even more as the game goes on with new items. It's the easiest and most balanced way of introducing new builds.
I also agree that I think making the loop more interesting would be making it because the skills interact with each other (you want to do X so you can achieve Y) but in the current game they are supposed to function as a primary resource generator (hence why they are flawed).
Also for the record Monks do have multiple buttons to pop that gives them spirit, that is the core of the no generator LTK build. It behaves in a way almost exactly like T6 crusader builds and pre-nerf MoTE builds.
Which, while unfortunate, is probably the case. They'll just put more gimmicks and such on future items/sets instead until some other rework comes along. If another rework comes along.
Originally, no. These were 2.0 changes, weren't they? I assume you're talking about Air Ally, anyway. Outside of that and post-2.0 / RoS item affixes, the closest was getting passive regen off a Mantra and Strong Spirit. Though, on re-reading, I see that I removed the time context on that comment anyway so :|
But, yes, the no-gen LTK build is basically the same as perma-AC Crusader in regards to how it generates resource: Through a cooldown gated skill that restores it.
I reworded it a bunch of times and must have removed the bit noting from launch design :| Crusader was basically another class that was similar to Monk in terms of generator -> spender (same color ball!) but it had innate regen and innate skills for it.
Really though, I doubt we'll get any real changes to the generator and spender dynamic. Which is a shame as it really needs some reworking. Though, as you point out, they're probably just fine with the situation anyway. Oh well.
Really though, I doubt we'll get any real changes to the generator and spender dynamic. Which is a shame as it really needs some reworking. Though, as you point out, they're probably just fine with the situation anyway. Oh well.
I'm just watching the Theorycraft Thursday livestream archive and there are some real gems in there.
http://www.twitch.tv/diablo/b/537881134 - starts at 18:50.
24:40 "This is what I do when I 4-box, because I just aim in a general direction and things die" -Travis, talking about using a shield throw build
Ha, I had a suspicion some of the devs were multiboxers. It totally explains Wormhole which is a nightmare for them and not a big deal otherwise.
Here's a thread about it with a link to a summary on d3 somepage.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/280fq1/travis_day_on_theorycraft_thursday_stream_patch/
http://www.twitch.tv/diablo/b/537881134 - starts at 18:50.
24:40 "This is what I do when I 4-box, because I just aim in a general direction and things die" -Travis, talking about using a shield throw build
Ha, I had a suspicion some of the devs were multiboxers. It totally explains Wormhole which is a nightmare for them and not a big deal otherwise.
Here's a thread about it with a link to a summary on d3 somepage.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/280fq1/travis_day_on_theorycraft_thursday_stream_patch/
Speeding up attack speed would be nice too. Spirit generation is kind of a bitch right now for no good reason.
A spender loop building up in damage like how firebats cloud of bats works would be really neat. As long as you build up the flow you'd end up dealing a shitload of damage up to some cap or something. IDK.
omg that hellfire amulet sounds awesome
time to go farm keys brb
for someone who doesn't want to dig for the info... hellfire amulet has a proc which grants you one of your class passives
so it's going to be an absolute nightmare crafting it as you have so many passives... but 5 passives is incredible.
time to go farm keys brb
for someone who doesn't want to dig for the info... hellfire amulet has a proc which grants you one of your class passives
so it's going to be an absolute nightmare crafting it as you have so many passives... but 5 passives is incredible.
Yeah... That's actually pretty interesting. Obviously you'll want to strive for a specific passive but really there is no downside to having any of your passives for free.
Also glad they realize mobs dropping loot in tiered rifts is a bad idea. Just having the boss drop a shit load of loot instead makes much more sense.
there's a 5/18 chance you get the passive you want, so instead of striving for a specific passive, best to strive for a passive you already have.
Well, for sure.
Also glad to see them say the double unity thing is intentional. Makes a lot of sense IMO considering you can only really use it effectively solo and generally co-op games have a bunch of CC and targets attacking different people anyway.
Good point, you only really need one of the five you would run. It wasn't described as a proc, it just rolls an affix that grants a random passive for your class - so 100% uptime on it. If it was a proc, the passive you rolled on it would matter since that specific one would only be up part of the time.
Monk buff! Now they can run STI + OWE and 3 offensive passives!
What offensive passives? =P
Momentum, mythic rhythm, and unity!
Rend has an OP bug right now where it's getting crit stats applied twice. It's probably as a result of the bug fix to have the %rend skill affix work with it again, like Nubtro said.
It gets boosted by the average effect of your crit stats, and the bugged part is it can have a normal crit on top of that. It all multiplies together for exponential benefit.
More discussion and videos here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/13088049258
It gets boosted by the average effect of your crit stats, and the bugged part is it can have a normal crit on top of that. It all multiplies together for exponential benefit.
More discussion and videos here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/13088049258
Just messing around with stuff I put rend into my EQ build last night to see what would happen and suddenly with just my leap quake build and rend I was absolutely destroying stuff. Most blue packs were only taking 1 leap cycle + rend to kill (ignoring extra HP/shielding obviously), without WOTB at that. I was wondering why it was working so well, I guess that explains that. Seriously had no clue it was bugged lol.
It's been pretty strong so far, the longest rift I had (with absolute shit density that went on for 5 floors) was only 11 minutes with quite a few at 7 or 8 (was initially timing them to see how much time I was wasting using Rend, was instead shocked at how strong it was).
Was going to play some more tonight but I ran out of rift fragments and not really in the mood to farm some, ughhhhh.
Definitely. If they deliver on half of it, it might breathe a little life back into the game for me.
If they buff the Hellfire Ring to go along with that sick Hellfire Amulet actually making fighting Ubers worth it, it'll already be 10/10 patch.
That amulet sounds pretty sweet! What is the ring supposed to do?
I am seriously considering getting a PS4, just to play this game solo or local co-op of line.
Making it so we can have increased walk speed a la Diablo 2 would go a long way towards making this game more fun. I do not want slog along. I want to stack walk speed, and lightspeed shuffle past runners.
Making it so we can have increased walk speed a la Diablo 2 would go a long way towards making this game more fun. I do not want slog along. I want to stack walk speed, and lightspeed shuffle past runners.
Various Artists
Banned
Hi Guys, I came to you for help once before and it was great. I am trying to finish up my marauder set. I need one piece (one piece is not equipped right now) Here is my character. Any suggestions?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Jim-1880/hero/48294172
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Jim-1880/hero/48294172
EscapingJail
Member
So i got this today while playing my crusader
Isn't this super rare? what are the odds?
Isn't this super rare? what are the odds?
So i got this today while playing my crusader
Isn't this super rare? what are the odds?
That is horrible, and you should scrap it immediately to escape the shame of posting it.
You are one lucky guy.
So i got this today while playing my crusader
Isn't this super rare? what are the odds?
Roll for cooldown reduction instead of the 10% damage
Can you even begin to imagine the value of a Hellfire Amulet that rolled OWE, in an actual economy?
Yeah, for some reason I'm not optimistic about it staying, but, I hope it does. Because really it isn't OP (shit like jade doctor still stronger) but it turns rend into a viable ability and it has successfully opened up new builds for barbarian. I was running a classic WW/Rend build on my second barbarian last night and it was incredibly effective, even on T6. Yet at the same time it was not game breaking or anything, my clear speeds were basically on par with my leap quake barb.... Except this build is like 4x as fun.
Basically it's just shown that rend is not good enough on its own right now. Should probably buff it in general.
Nope, no luck. It was just added to the hotfix list.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/13087689086?page=1
The fun police said:
It would be worth at least 32 SoJ's.
Yeah, they should really buff the ability to compensate, it's not very good on its own.
Yeah, honestly they should just leave it how it is until 2.1 and then add some item for it or just straight up buff it. Reading through the rend thread on the official d3 forums it's cool how many interesting/viable builds came out of it while not really being that OP. Most fun I've had on my Barb the entire expansion ; ;
Liferebooted
Banned
What is the strongest class besides WD? I love my WD but I'm sick of my pets doing all my dmg and Jades won't even drop 1 piece of the set...
toastyToast
Member
Man I should have tried out rend while I had the chance. I don't really like hota but there's no other real choice for dumping fury
The strongest class is your rng luck.
As it stands right now probably crusader, but strong doesn't necessarily mean more exciting. For me personally, it's a draw for exciting gameplay. I share your opinion on non JH WD play, watching pets do everything isn't very engaging. But at the same time, spamming foth or foh ad nauseum isn't much more exciting.
It really honestly comes down to you being lucky enough to get drops that allow you to make a build you want to play.
Liferebooted
Banned
Thanks, I actually decided to start gearing my DH since it was the other class I used to love.
I've found it pretty boring as well, sadly. Loved summoner necros in D2, so I thought this would be my jam. But at this point I'll have a full Jade set without even playing WD thanks to Mumei.
I got my akkhan set and i feel dumb
I have my current gear here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DopeyFish-1362/hero/43867457
I have my fire stuff here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DopeyFish-1362/hero/48856130
I'm thinking... should i go firestarter, take all my gear from my fire build, reroll the lidless wall strength for cooldown (instead of using akarats awakening) and get a helmet with a socket... then replace some gems with diamonds? (maybe try for helm of akkhan and use hexing pants?)
I am so lost on this build tbh i feel like i'll have high damage output but be realllllly easy to kill
I have my current gear here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DopeyFish-1362/hero/43867457
I have my fire stuff here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DopeyFish-1362/hero/48856130
I'm thinking... should i go firestarter, take all my gear from my fire build, reroll the lidless wall strength for cooldown (instead of using akarats awakening) and get a helmet with a socket... then replace some gems with diamonds? (maybe try for helm of akkhan and use hexing pants?)
I am so lost on this build tbh i feel like i'll have high damage output but be realllllly easy to kill
Another satisfied customer!
So... you have magical second-hand rng, yes? Might I have some?
Yeah, I feel I'd rather be playing a Pet Doctor, but because RNG and Kadala are fickle as hell with Taskers, I ended up getting a whole Jade set completed first.
Still kinda wonky getting used to playing Jade.
It's definitely very powerful though with the proper setup.
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