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[Coolwhhip]

From the look of things - either due to notion of liberty, freedom, or something else - the US has decided from the beginning to make a simple calculation: what is more important? Maintaining the economic growth a much as possible and with it the quality of life of the population at large or sacrifice one group of individuals for the benefit of others.

Obviously people, depending on their situation will have very different responses. Here in France I read an interesting mention that this is the first time you are asking the adults and the young people to sacrifice themselves for the old, people that vast majority of cases do not work (so they are not concerned with the loss of their jobs), are well-off compared to the average citizen (since they predominantly own their housing, which is a source of close to 50% of wealth for the French), and also who are going to die soon anyway - the problem with being old is even if Grandpa/Grandma are super healthy (and most of the time that's not the case due to lack of healthy life choices over the past 30-40 years) they can still die the next week due to a flu - that's just how it works when you are 80-years old.
Another example mentioned a few months ago by the Economist was equally older population in the UK that voted overwhelmingly for Brexit - once again they are much better off than the average citizen (property + retirement is adjusted at a minimum by 2.5% per year), and they will not be the once suffering the consequences of UK being outside the EU and economic loss that it entails.

So we did make the choice - GDP fell by 10%, unemployment exploded and due to government handling the situation first lock-down didn't help, second one didn't help, now the vaccination campaign is going so slowly (we are vaccinating 50 - FIFTY - people per day in the whole country) third wave and subsequent restrictions are very probable.

As terrible as is sounds - sometimes you need to know when to cut your losses. Now the whole generation is probably fucked up for at least 3-5 years, maybe more depending on the sector. The image for 2020 will be forever for me a picture of a restaurant's owner at the corner sitting in his empty restaurant every night looking at the news. I cannot imagine what he must be going through right now.

And we wouldn't be fucked if we just let the virus spiral out of control ending in a massacre? I prefer some economic damage then, you can recover from that. You can't dig up the people that would have died.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

And we wouldn't be fucked if we just let the virus spiral out of control ending in a massacre? I prefer some economic damage then, you can recover from that. You can't dig up the people that would have died.

Sweden is doing fine, in fact it's their best year in a while for number of deaths total. Also according to the MSM more than 4 million jobs lost are gone for good. 7.5 million small businesses are closed or at risk of closing.

 

[Coolwhhip]

Sweden is doing fine, in fact it's their best year in a while for number of deaths total. Also according to the MSM more than 4 million jobs lost are gone for good. 7.5 million small businesses are closed or at risk of closing.

Is it? Last I heard they did a lot worse than countries around them. And Sweden is a very low population country, so not sure if you can draw conclusions from that. But eh, I'm sure we both can find articles that prove our point.

 

[Outrunner]

Where I live everyone complies (at least with masks in public) and we're still infecting at a pretty high rate. It really doesn't appear to be making a difference, like at all.

It's important to understand infections are happening at home, work, public indoor places where people aren't distancing and wearing masks.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

And we wouldn't be fucked if we just let the virus spiral out of control ending in a massacre? I prefer some economic damage then, you can recover from that. You can't dig up the people that would have died.

Massacre of who? I like to say Covid is literally a virus that got a D- in Virus 101 class - it's not extremely contagious, nor extremely deadly, majority of people do not develop severe symptoms and if they do they do not die fast enough to relieve the pressure on the hospital system.

You prefer economic damage because you are not a restaurant owner, you are not a small business owner, you do not have kids you need to keep at home because childcare is closed or schools are closed. Have you tried to work-from-home while having kids? Every parent will tell you it's impossible. But your employer does not care, and why should he/she? There are other employees that works just fine since they do not have kids.
There are already studies being made how much the current young generation will suffer e.g. due to education inequalities. Rich parents can have computers at home, they can hire tutors to help their kids catch up on the time lost due to school being closed. Poor parents cannot do that, which means their kids will fall even more behind their peers. Which means they will get worse-paying jobs in the future, or be stuck in poverty. There are thousands of articles on this subject.

To counter all this you are saying you 'prefer economic damage'. Ok, I prefer the opposite - we meet in the middle? Why is your opinion more valid than mine?

Once again - as bad as it sounds the old people will die soon anyway, if not to Covid then to other disease like diabetes, cardiovascular issues, cancer.

 

[Outrunner]

Sweden is doing fine, in fact it's their best year in a while for number of deaths total. Also according to the MSM more than 4 million jobs lost are gone for good. 7.5 million small businesses are closed or at risk of closing.

'doing fine'


As Covid death toll soars ever higher, Sweden wonders who to blame

Sweden recorded its highest daily death rate from Covid-19 at the start of December

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Is it? Last I heard they did a lot worse than countries around them. And Sweden is a very low population country, so not sure if you can draw conclusions from that. But eh, I'm sure we both can find articles that prove our point.

If someone told you only one of these years was a year Sweden was hit with a deadly pandemic, without knowing, what would you guess??

Sweden excess deaths 2023 | Statista

Sweden saw a period of excess deaths in 2022, caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.statista.com

 

[Coolwhhip]

Massacre of who? I like to say Covid is literally a virus that got a D- in Virus 101 class - it's not extremely contagious, nor extremely deadly, majority of people do not develop severe symptoms and if they do they do not die fast enough to relieve the pressure on the hospital system.

You prefer economic damage because you are not a restaurant owner, you are not a small business owner, you do not have kids you need to keep at home because childcare is closed or schools are closed. Have you tried to work-from-home while having kids? Every parent will tell you it's impossible. But your employer does not care, and why should he/she? There are other employees that works just fine since they do not have kids.
There are already studies being made how much the current young generation will suffer e.g. due to education inequalities. Rich parents can have computers at home, they can hire tutors to help their kids catch up on the time lost due to school being closed. Poor parents cannot do that, which means their kids will fall even more behind their peers. Which means they will get worse-paying jobs in the future, or be stuck in poverty. There are thousands of articles on this subject.

Once again - as bad as it sounds the old people will die soon anyway, if not to Covid then to other disease like diabetes, cardiovascular issues, cancer.

We wont agree if the last sentence is your stance. "Oh well, older people will die soon anyway" Then you might as well stop giving anyone over 50 any medical treatment whatsoever, think of the money we can save for the economy! And no one is disagreeing this situation sucks, it's a global pandemic. In my country in the first wave we were very close to the point where people couldn't be treated at all in the hospital, and would be left to die. Without lock downs and economy damaging measures, that would have been a massacre.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

We wont agree if the last sentence is your stance. "Oh well, older people will die soon anyway" Then you might as well stop giving anyone over 50 any medical treatment whatsoever, think of the money we can save for the economy! And no one is disagreeing this situation sucks, it's a global pandemic. In my country in the first wave we were very close to the point where people couldn't be treated at all in the hospital, and would be left to die. Without lock downs and economy damaging measures, that would have been a massacre.

First of all over 50, over 65 and over 75 and completely different scenarios. Second, in normal situation there is no issue with dispensing care to everyone that needs it but we are not in a normal situation. This is exactly the same philosophy that makes France vaccinate 50 people per day. Here is how it usually works regarding any vaccine, but it is even more strict for Covid:

1. You book an appointment with your doctor
2. He will tell you about the vaccine, known and potential risks, and give you time to 'think about it'
3. If you are ok you will then get the prescription
4. You will buy the vaccine at the pharmacy
5. You will book another appointment with the nurse to get a shot

For some reason a whole bunch of well-paid people thought the same rules that exist for other vaccines need to apply to a vaccine to combat the GLOBAL PANDEMIC. Which is why we are in this situation and the government is - rightfully - getting shit thrown at them from all sides for fucking it up.

 

[sol_bad]

What do you mean by mistakes? This is their policy on purpose.

The video doesn't make it sound intentional to me. She says that they actively remove the non Covid19 deaths. It doesn't make sense to intentional include them and then remove them later.
Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The video doesn't make it sound intentional to me. She says that they actively remove the non Covid19 deaths. It doesn't make sense to intentional include them and then remove them later.
Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

She basically only admits to removing 7 deaths from the counts while admitting they have plenty of people who didn't die of COVID counted. Their policy is to include anyone who dies within 60 days of a COVID diagnosis classified as a COVID death and to only later on comb through and find the most egregious examples (like someone died in a car accident) and remove those but that's it. This is also ignoring that this is just one county. The thing is, if the flu were handled like this what do you think flu deaths would look like?

 

[Outrunner]

Maybe this thread on twitter answers OP's question.

"it's the fucking flu"

"people die, your father isn't special"

"this ins't china"

"i'm american"

 

[TindalosPup]

It's important to understand infections are happening at home, work, public indoor places where people aren't distancing and wearing masks.

It's important to remember, that where I live (which you have no real reference for) has walked back loosening lockdowns 3 times already. There are no indoor public places where you're allowed in without a mask, everyone working here has to wear a mask, and there's no way to stop in home spread, if you expect families to social distance at home you're kind of heartless.

Please don't speak to me like I'm special needs and I don't understand how these things work. I used to be a housekeeper at a nursing home and dealt with contact, droplet, and air precautions (infectious fungi, bacteria, and viruses) and also discharged (deep cleaned and disinfected) the rooms when the person left or died.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Where I live everyone complies (at least with masks in public) and we're still infecting at a pretty high rate. It really doesn't appear to be making a difference, like at all.

And this is what people don’t seem willing to admit. It doesn’t seem like any of the restrictions are really doing much. Places with less and places with more seem to be having the same issues. I’m sure they’re making some difference, but I’m not sure they’re making enough of a difference to justify their damage.

 

[raduque]

It's all fine until you're the one pulling the trigger on those 340 thousand.

I'M not pulling the trigger on any of those people. I'm healthy, and asymptomatic spread doesn't exist (numbers are so low as to be zero).

 

[Outrunner]

It's important to remember, that where I live (which you have no real reference for) has walked back loosening lockdowns 3 times already. There are no indoor public places where you're allowed in without a mask, everyone working here has to wear a mask, and there's no way to stop in home spread, if you expect families to social distance at home you're kind of heartless.

Please don't speak to me like I'm special needs and I don't understand how these things work. I used to be a housekeeper at a nursing home and dealt with contact, droplet, and air precautions (infectious fungi, bacteria, and viruses) and also discharged (deep cleaned and disinfected) the rooms when the person left or died.

I didn't talk to you like you were special needs nor did I made any judgement on your intellectual competences, if you took it that way I apologize. I don't know where you live, but there seems to be a misunderstanding in the forum where people assume the measures at place don't reduce infection when they do, infection rate always rises when lock-down measures are softened. Contact tracing is failing in a lot of places but data (in this case from Germany) indicates that infection happens in environments where masks and social distancing aren't applied (because regardless of all the measures in place people still take breaks at work where masks are off, kids still fail to social distance at school, and families still gather, and people who live in institutions live in communities where spread is much easier).

 

[TindalosPup]

I didn't talk to you like you were special needs nor did I made any judgement on your intellectual competences, if you took it that way I apologize. I don't know where you live, but there seems to be a misunderstanding in the forum where people assume the measures at place don't reduce infection when they do, infection rate always rises when lock-down measures are softened. Contact tracing is failing in a lot of places but data (in this case from Germany) indicates that infection happens in environments where masks and social distancing aren't applied (because regardless of all the measures in place people still take breaks at work where masks are off, kids still fail to social distance at school, and families still gather, and people who live in institutions live in communities where spread is much easier).

You should watch your wording if you don't wish to insult people, because you came off very condescending.

I'm in a Democrat stronghold, everyone is following the instructions, painstakingly so. Most recently there were 40 cases contracted at an event WITH masks and social distancing REQUIRED. It doesn't help.

 

[NahaNago]

I think most folks now are just burnt out on it and stopped caring. Now don't get me wrong like 98% percent of the folks I see wear masks and correctly whenever I go shopping. The thing is we aren't locked down so folks are still visiting friends and going to work.

 

[levyjl1988]

The US is fucked. There's a lot of fucked up people in the US apparently the world has to, unfortunately, deal with them.
Stores should have a sign to reinforce masks users, no mask, no getting into the property, otherwise, it is trespassing, simple as that.

 

[diablos991]

If you are not high risk there should be no restrictions. There should be no restrictions on going to work and getting back to normal.
If you are high risk, there should be measures put in-place to help protect you only if you wish to utilize those measures.

We cannot live in fear for multiple years over this. The data simply doesn't show this virus presents enough risk to be upending our lives and economies this way.

 

[Outrunner]

You should watch your wording if you don't wish to insult people, because you came off very condescending.

I'm in a Democrat stronghold, everyone is following the instructions, painstakingly so. Most recently there were 40 cases contracted at an event WITH masks and social distancing REQUIRED. It doesn't help.

You should just take the apology and leave it there. There is nothing condescending on that text, if you wanna get upset about it that's on you. An anecdotal example doesn't prove these measures don't help, it most likely is proof that people fail at respecting the required measures (that are put in place to reduce the risk of infection).

 

[Super Mario]

 

[TindalosPup]

You should just take the apology and leave it there. There is nothing condescending on that text, if you wanna get upset about it that's on you. An anecdotal example doesn't prove these measures don't help, it most likely is proof that people fail at respecting the required measures (that are put in place to reduce the risk of infection).

You realize you don't get to decide when people feel they being talked down to because of the manner in which you're speaking to them, right?

I won't "just accept" anything, and you have no authority to tell me to do so. Keep your apology, and perhaps your words to yourself (I'll lead by example: I won't be responding to you any further)

Considering this wasn't the first time it's happened in my state, I think my "anecdotal" example is pretty telling. I can't tell you how many times the supermarkets have been shut down for sanitization in my county because dozens of people all got infected in them while they're wearing masks and social distancing.

 

[Birgitte2004-2]

I wish at my job I could say "My plan is perfect, if only the assholes would follow it" and be completely forgiven for everything wrong with the plan.

 

[Greasy Caveman]

I've been fighting the Chinese plague with offensive counter measures

 

[Virt McPolygon]

 

[Batiman]

Just read the covid con thread and you’ll understand. It’ll get you some laughs as well.

 

[CrankyJay™]

The US is fucked. There's a lot of fucked up people in the US apparently the world has to, unfortunately, deal with them.
Stores should have a sign to reinforce masks users, no mask, no getting into the property, otherwise, it is trespassing, simple as that.

What other comparable countries have really significantly stamped this out though?

 

[Bolivar687]

The US is fucked. There's a lot of fucked up people in the US apparently the world has to, unfortunately, deal with them.
Stores should have a sign to reinforce masks users, no mask, no getting into the property, otherwise, it is trespassing, simple as that.

Literally every store I go into here has your sign.

 

[Spokker]

Don't get me wrong. If I caught COVID I would probably die a slow and painful death, but otherwise I don't care that much about it. I'll wear a mask but I'd rather go back to normal and let nature take its course.

 

[oagboghi2]

The US is fucked. There's a lot of fucked up people in the US apparently the world has to, unfortunately, deal with them.
Stores should have a sign to reinforce masks users, no mask, no getting into the property, otherwise, it is trespassing, simple as that.

Do you live in America? Every single fucking store in my city does exactly what you recommend?

So what is your fucking point? So tired of people speaking absolute nonsense about places they have clearly never gone to.

 

[carlosrox]

The War on COVID is just like the War on Terror:

Bullshit.

 

[Raven117]

The US is fucked. There's a lot of fucked up people in the US apparently the world has to, unfortunately, deal with them.
Stores should have a sign to reinforce masks users, no mask, no getting into the property, otherwise, it is trespassing, simple as that.

Enjoy writing that? Because most of the country does exactly this.

 

[levyjl1988]

It's amazing how many people are downplaying Covid-19 and its deaths. It's just the flu until it kills you.
Then people say Covid-19 is an excuse to shut down small companies and limit freedom of expression and such bullshit.

Do you really think governments enjoy giving away free money to get the economy going, fuck no.

 

[DESTROYA]

They aren’t letting COVID take them out of their routine and 2021 they are focusing in on the virus, I look at numbers and see dangerous highs yes but I disagree I think you got the COVID message out there.

Say what bot?

 

[Aesius]

And this is what people don’t seem willing to admit. It doesn’t seem like any of the restrictions are really doing much. Places with less and places with more seem to be having the same issues. I’m sure they’re making some difference, but I’m not sure they’re making enough of a difference to justify their damage.

People just keep blaming hypothetical non-mask-wearing Trump supporters. Or they think that a single viral picture of a bar where 20 people aren't wearing masks is responsible for the entire spread of the virus in their city.

 

[showernota]

All the elderly cashiers and baggers at my Publix are somehow still kicking.

inb4 that doesn't matter

 

[cryptoadam]

People just keep blaming hypothetical non-mask-wearing Trump supporters. Or they think that a single viral picture of a bar where 20 people aren't wearing masks is responsible for the entire spread of the virus in their city.

Dont forget all the Trump supporters going to old age homes and coughing on old people.

Seeing the median age of death is 80 years old with 1 or 2 underlying conditions, i sure as hell don't see those people at the gym, bar, or restaurants unless its 5AM at Country Kitchen Buffet.

 

[Bolivar687]

It's amazing how many people are downplaying Covid-19 and its deaths. It's just the flu until it kills you.
Then people say Covid-19 is an excuse to shut down small companies and limit freedom of expression and such bullshit.

Do you really think governments enjoy giving away free money to get the economy going, fuck no.

We're still waiting for you to explain the reason why your store sign hasn't saved us.

 

[highrider]

I was just looking at the numbers and was blown away. You’re getting hundreds of thousands of people infected each day. And this is with lockdowns and masks? Wat

It’s almost like extensive testing just started

 

[Outrunner]

It's amazing how many people are downplaying Covid-19 and its deaths. It's just the flu until it kills you.
Then people say Covid-19 is an excuse to shut down small companies and limit freedom of expression and such bullshit.

Do you really think governments enjoy giving away free money to get the economy going, fuck no.

It's pathetic. Never thought people could be so dumb.

 

[Valonquar]

Was the US ever actually fighting COVID-19?

 

[Mohonky]

The US was always going to get smashed, same as Europe etc. We (Australia) are lucky enough to be an island and we just locked the fuck down. We have smaller cities, a less dense population and far better access to healthcare and social services. Not that we didnt get a hit, but when you compare us to the US and Europe we are in a way better position.

Look at the US; shit tonne of homeless people who have access to next to nothing. A lack of a strong underlying social welfare system meant even if people did want to isolate they couldnt afford time away from work, large density populations in cities make avoiding anyone next to impossible, general apathy and mistrust in politicians and government in general, a number of large scale protests and riots.

Noone was stopping that covid train

 

[Birgitte2004-2]

The US was always going to get smashed, same as Europe etc. We (Australia) are lucky enough to be an island and we just locked the fuck down. We have smaller cities, a less dense population and far better access to healthcare and social services. Not that we didnt get a hit, but when you compare us to the US and Europe we are in a way better position.

Look at the US; shit tonne of homeless people who have access to next to nothing. A lack of a strong underlying social welfare system meant even if people did want to isolate they couldnt afford time away from work, large density populations in cities make avoiding anyone next to impossible, general apathy and mistrust in politicians and government in general, a number of large scale protests and riots.

Noone was stopping that covid train

I'm tired of Australians talking like they have things beat, now, in their "off" flu season. Let's see just how beat you have it in 4-5 months when your flu season starts up again.

 

[Mohonky]

I'm tired of Australians talking like they have things beat, now, in their "off" flu season. Let's see just how beat you have it in 4-5 months when your flu season starts up again.

We had a very large downturn in people with the flu last season because of lock downs....

....but regardless, Australia is scrambling to isolate and lock down when we see less than a dozen cases. What makes you think 6 months from now will be any different?

 

[Hulk_Smash]

The US was always going to get smashed, same as Europe etc. We (Australia) are lucky enough to be an island and we just locked the fuck down. We have smaller cities, a less dense population and far better access to healthcare and social services. Not that we didnt get a hit, but when you compare us to the US and Europe we are in a way better position.

Look at the US; shit tonne of homeless people who have access to next to nothing. A lack of a strong underlying social welfare system meant even if people did want to isolate they couldnt afford time away from work, large density populations in cities make avoiding anyone next to impossible, general apathy and mistrust in politicians and government in general, a number of large scale protests and riots.

Noone was stopping that covid train

“Lack of a strong underlying social welfare system”. Fuck off with this outright fucking lie. Our homeless have exactly the same access to healthcare as the rest of us. Medicare, Medicaid, and even Obamacare all contribute to this.

Yeah y’all locked the fuck by throwing violators in jail like the assholes you are.

You are no better than us.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

Certainly. Cultures with fewer individual freedoms deal better with lockdown protocols. Asia has been dealing with this sort of problem first hand for a lot longer than Europe or the Americas too, at least in modern times. They're already familiar with masking for the general public.

They also like to fucking lie about their numbers.

 

[Woo-Fu]

They also like to fucking lie about their numbers.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with how acceptable lockdown protocols are to their people.

 

[levyjl1988]

Enjoy writing that? Because most of the country does exactly this.

We're still waiting for you to explain the reason why your store sign hasn't saved us.

Yet people are still ignoring store signs? Jeez, people are fucked, store owners should just arm themselves with a fucking shotgun to ACTUALLY enforce these store laws, no mask, gtfo then.
At least in Canada our cases aren't bad as the USA, but still fucking people are just stretching this pandemic. This shit is not going to resolve itself over night unless an asteroid hits, then bye-bye covid and humanity.

People are fucked and many people are going to fucking continue to die. At this point why bother saving people who refuse to obey the signs.
Nature does not give a fuck about your beliefs and human rights it will straight up fuck you up. That's what covid-19 does.

People are just fucked. Humanity is fucked, 3x the cases every day. Fuck!.

 

[Raven117]

Yet people are still ignoring store signs? Jeez, people are fucked, store owners should just arm themselves with a fucking shotgun to ACTUALLY enforce these store laws, no mask, gtfo then.
At least in Canada our cases aren't bad as the USA, but still fucking people are just stretching this pandemic. This shit is not going to resolve itself over night unless an asteroid hits, then bye-bye covid and humanity.

People are fucked and many people are going to fucking continue to die. At this point why bother saving people who refuse to obey the signs.
Nature does not give a fuck about your beliefs and human rights it will straight up fuck you up. That's what covid-19 does.

People are just fucked. Humanity is fucked, 3x the cases every day. Fuck!.

Ummmm breathe dude. The death rate is incredibly low. Further, it seems that spread is more likely to occur at home rather than at a store.

Nothing is fucked.