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[Deleted member 17706]

I'll be very honest. I had no hopes about my country but I expected the US to do much better. Pop culture really portrays you all much better than you guys are. The politicization of a disease, that's just petty politics. Many of your politicians in power spread lies about vaccines and masks, that's just disgusting even moreso considering they are the first ones getting the vaccines now. I thought US would be like NZ. Those guys are roaming mask free now. Who knew wearing masks and following guidelines rather than bitching about them would keep the virus in control? NZ, and now look at them.

Very different country. First, it's a secluded remote island with a population of under 5 million and a population density of 18 people per square kilometer. Basically comparable to Colorado if Colorado were an island with its own border controls out somewhere in the Pacific. Not saying their efforts shouldn't be recognized, but it's a very different game they're playing.

 

[borborygmus]

ER visits

ER visits always increase massively on holidays. Your conflation of increased ER visits in 1 hospital as being a sign of the pandemic's severity is a much bigger ass pull than what the skeptics are being criticized for.

 

[theclaw135]

The arbitrary and authoritarian handling of the pandemic has resulted in more collateral damage to the country, than the actual bodily harm to those who contract the infection.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That is with no one taking any precautions. Imagine if no one from the start of pandemic was taking precautions then the deaths and cases would have been higher. Comparing apples to oranges over here. You can't even account for the loss to patients of other diseases, my friend's mum has cancer but the doctor advised to skip treatments due to the precautions and how the hospitals are full, I imagine similar case in US and that too with other diseases too.

Yeah, I have a hunch there are far more increased deaths from stuff like overdose and untreated illnesses than from COVID itself. The whole thing is a fucking disaster.

 

[-Arcadia-]

Going to be interesting to see where the total all cause death numbers pans out after everything is said and done. Here's the current data from the US CDC (population number if pulled from elsewhere).

Year: Total All Cause Deaths / Total Population

2020: 2,913,144 / 331,000,000
2019: 2,854,838 / 328,000,000
2018: 2,839,205 / 327,000,000
2017: 2,813,503 / 325,000,000
2016: 2,744,248 / 323,000,000
2015: 2,712,630 / 320,000,000
2014: 2,626,418 / 318,000,000
2013: 2,596,993 / 316,000,000

So far, the increase is nigh-on identical to 2016 and 2017, which is fascinating. There’s even a bigger jump between 2014 and 2015.

If the figures are incomplete, that could change, but if you showed me that data out of the blue, and told me one of the years was a deadly pandemic that the world locked down for, I’d give you a funny look.

 

[Jethalal]

Yeah, I have a hunch there are far more increased deaths from stuff like overdose and untreated illnesses than from COVID itself. The whole thing is a fucking disaster.

Those are a major part too but COVID is definitely very real I assure you. I was just telling you how you can't compare the last year deaths with this year's. People are not going to offices, atleast not all. If everyone was going then COVID would be much worse and more deaths too. The figure is lower too as much fewer automobile accidents, shootings, etc. Please don't downplay it. Let us downplay it when all is said and done and we have defeated it

 

[Romulus]

I think alot of is false vaccine hopes. Not saying it wont help at all.

 

[Weiji]

Going to be interesting to see where the total all cause death numbers pans out after everything is said and done. Here's the current data from the US CDC (population numbers are pulled from elsewhere).

Year: Total All Cause Deaths / Total Population

2020: 2,913,144 / 331,000,000
2019: 2,854,838 / 328,000,000
2018: 2,839,205 / 327,000,000
2017: 2,813,503 / 325,000,000
2016: 2,744,248 / 323,000,000
2015: 2,712,630 / 320,000,000
2014: 2,626,418 / 318,000,000
2013: 2,596,993 / 316,000,000

The death numbers for 2020 will end quite a bit higher, there’s a lag in their reporting methodology. Even so ~3.2 million will probably be the cap which means covid deaths will be somewhere around 250k-300k. Hardly insignificant, maybe 6 times the flu’s death rate, targeting mostly the elderly and the infirm.

Anyway in hindsight I think the obvious answer here would have been to lockdown the in-danger population and let the virus run its course through the healthy population.

Failed and partial lockdowns have put the elderly MORE at risk by letting the virus burn slower then it otherwise would have.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Those are a major part too but COVID is definitely very real I assure you. I was just telling you how you can't compare the last year deaths with this year's. People are not going to offices, atleast not all. If everyone was going then COVID would be much worse and more deaths too. The figure is lower too as much fewer automobile accidents, shootings, etc. Please don't downplay it. Let us downplay it when all is said and done and we have defeated it

I never said COVID wasn't real, but please don't try to act like your speculation is any better than mine when it comes down to how many deaths there might have been in a hypothetical scenario. Vehicle accidents account for 30,000 ~ 40,000 deaths per year and were actually down just 2% for the first 6 months of the year: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34240145/2019-2020-traffic-deaths-coronavirus/. Gun deaths appear to have actually been UP in 2020 and possibly the highest on record since 1981. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/12/18/gun-violence-deaths-americans-2020/3906428001/

 

[cryptoadam]

Those are a major part too but COVID is definitely very real I assure you. I was just telling you how you can't compare the last year deaths with this year's. People are not going to offices, atleast not all. If everyone was going then COVID would be much worse and more deaths too. The figure is lower too as much fewer automobile accidents, shootings, etc. Please don't downplay it. Let us downplay it when all is said and done and we have defeated it

But isnt that a contradiction?

No one is goinf to office etc but then in this thread posters are saying no one in US follows lockdowns.

So which is it because of lockdowns no one was dying from other causes. Or no one in US listens to lockdowns so COVID is raging?

You cant say both are true. That lockdowns lowered the deaths foe for other causes but no one wears masks or does lockdown so cases are going crazy in the US.

 

[Jethalal]

I never said COVID wasn't real, but please don't try to act like your speculation is any better than mine when it comes down to how many deaths there might have been in a hypothetical scenario. Vehicle accidents account for 30,000 ~ 40,000 deaths per year. Gun deaths appear to have actually been UP in 2020 and possibly the highest on record since 1981. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/12/18/gun-violence-deaths-americans-2020/3906428001/

It isn't bro , sorry for labeling you as a denier. It's just that we won't get rid of it if certain people don't stop spreading lies for self-gains.

I thought you were saying it's just like flu while it isn't. The flu accounts for similar deaths as covid with everything open but if everything was open in covid times, our situation would have been much worse.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It isn't bro , sorry for labeling you as a denier. It's just that we won't get rid of it if certain people don't stop spreading lies for self-gains.

I thought you were saying it's just like flu while it isn't. The flu accounts for similar deaths as covid with everything open but if everything was open in covid times, our situation would have been much worse.

I could see that being the case, but I can't be sure it is true, either.

Sweden is probably the best country to look at when it comes to a rather unmitigated approach (at least in regards to not shutting down businesses and overly restricting people's movements as well as not requiring masks). They frontloaded their deaths with their approach and got a lot of heat for it. Their deaths per 100 million population is now at 861. This used to look really bad, but now it's actually quite a bit lower than nations that have implemented heavy-handed restrictions and severe lockdowns such as the UK (1,102), Spain (1,087), Italy (1,247), Belgium (1,691), France (993), and the USA (1,081).

Again, it's a very different country, so perhaps not a fair comparison, but I think it's also hard to argue that their approach was a complete disaster.

 

[Jethalal]

But isnt that a contradiction?

No one is goinf to office etc but then in this thread posters are saying no one in US follows lockdowns.

So which is it because of lockdowns no one was dying from other causes. Or no one in US listens to lockdowns so COVID is raging?

You cant say both are true. That lockdowns lowered the deaths foe for other causes but no one wears masks or does lockdown so cases are going crazy in the US.

Not really a contradiction in my view.
People aren't going to theaters nor offices. Many offices are closed and most places which are likely to be superspreading hotspots are closed so ofcourse people can't go this nipping the chances of spreading in the bud.
Now if people party and go to shopping without social distancing and masks then that's upto them and their negligence in play.
Chances of spreading places and events with restrictions are less, not gone but it's upto the populace to make sure to follow guidelines in other cases.

 

[Cycom]

Gave up a long time ago. Where I live, the restaurants, bars, and supermarkets are full of people not wearing masks or following any guidelines whatsoever.

I still wear my mask everywhere I go. Not joining these fools.

You should probably not go to the supermarket anymore then, since you’ll be exposed.

 

[Jethalal]

I could see that being the case, but I can't be sure it is true, either.

Sweden is probably the best country to look at when it comes to a rather unmitigated approach (at least in regards to not shutting down businesses and overly restricting people's movements as well as not requiring masks). They frontloaded their deaths with their approach and got a lot of heat for it. Their deaths per 100 million population is now at 861. This used to look really bad, but now it's actually quite a bit lower than nations that have implemented heavy-handed restrictions and severe lockdowns such as the UK (1,102), Spain (1,087), Italy (1,247), Belgium (1,691), France (993), and the USA (1,081).

Again, it's a very different country, so perhaps not a fair comparison, but I think it's also hard to argue that their approach was a complete disaster.

It's tough to call them a success too.

Covid-19: Sweden considers tougher restrictions as ICU beds near capacity

Health officials in Sweden have warned that intensive care units (ICUs) in and around Stockholm are under severe pressure and close to capacity for the first time during the pandemic. Although the city’s hospitals could increase the number of beds allocated to ICUs, there are insufficient...

www.bmj.com

There are not just deaths to consider. If hospitals are full then other diseases can be left unchecked and minor cases can be aggravated

 

[Virt McPolygon]

Americans were too selfish and comfortable to adapt to the conditions that came with a viral pandemic.

 

[Romulus]

I read that 20,000 died last wk in the US alone. That's pretty insane if true if you think about the deaths and how long it took to accumulate in something like the Veitnam war. I think, what 60,000 total dead and it was considered a bloodbath over the course of...years? We're literally losing more than that per month if that keeps up.

 

[Punished Miku]

But isnt that a contradiction?

No one is goinf to office etc but then in this thread posters are saying no one in US follows lockdowns.

So which is it because of lockdowns no one was dying from other causes. Or no one in US listens to lockdowns so COVID is raging?

You cant say both are true. That lockdowns lowered the deaths foe for other causes but no one wears masks or does lockdown so cases are going crazy in the US.

It is both. Lots of people are not following the mask mandates. Lockdown severity varies by region, but even with lots of people ignoring it - there's still a ton of people that remote work now, don't have kids in school, don't go to concerts, don't go to sporting events, don't go to theaters, don't socialize as much or get together with extended family, etc. If absolutely nothing was done, COVID would have spread more thoroughly. But that doesn't mean people are following it completely.

It's commonly called the worst of all worlds approach, where we straddled the line halfway. Severe economic damage, while not actually doing enough to contain the virus.

 

[Cycom]

What dumbfuck country does OP live in? Earth to moron the whole world has to deal with this bullshit. Go fuck off dipshit. I’m sorry you want to troll about dumb movies or whatever go ahead but this is peoples lives you asshole.

Ask yourself if you would have given this response last year, for the myriad of reasons that people die. Did you lose your shit last flu season when tens of thousands died of the flu?

 

[Lionel Richie]

The arbitrary and authoritarian handling of the pandemic has resulted in more collateral damage to the country, than the actual bodily harm to those who contract the infection.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

I read that 20,000 died last wk in the US alone. That's pretty insane if true if you think about the deaths and how long it took to accumulate in something like the Veitnam war. I think, what 60,000 total dead and it was considered a bloodbath over the course of...years? We're literally losing more than that per month if that keeps up.

January is going to be absolutely horrible, the US “response” is a catastrophe:

COVID-19 model predicts 150,000 more US deaths within the next month

A top COVID-19 model predicts 150,000 more deaths in the U.S. in the next month as the country heads into what is anticipated to be the worst phase of the pandemic.

www.google.com

I remember people shit talking because I called out Trump’s comment about the flu killing 100k a year...the last time it came close to that was 50 years ago. Here we are at 75k in December alone and could double it this month.

Absolutely horrible

 

[Tesseract]

Just?
Florida has been full steam ahead. Nothing is stopping us

 

[Tesseract]

 

[Punished Miku]

January is going to be absolutely horrible, the US “response” is a catastrophe:

COVID-19 model predicts 150,000 more US deaths within the next month

A top COVID-19 model predicts 150,000 more deaths in the U.S. in the next month as the country heads into what is anticipated to be the worst phase of the pandemic.

www.google.com

I remember people shit talking because I called out Trump’s comment about the flu killing 100k a year...the last time it came close to that was 50 years ago. Here we are at 75k in December alone and could double it this month.

Absolutely horrible

Everyone travels during Thanksgiving to different states. Then around the time the virus is done incubating from that spread, they travel again for Christmas and spread it again. Then top it off with a New Years party. All during peak winter months when everyone is inside. Everyone called it for months.

Glad I'm getting my 2nd shot in 5 days I guess. It's not even close to slowing down.

I wonder if people think hospitals will be able to handle a doubling of severe cases within 4 weeks when many are at peak capacity now? And I'm not sure if the models account for a spike in deaths from people that just literally receive zero treatment when hospitals are finally full. The current death rate is based on most everyone getting treated.

And throw in a more infectious strain that just got confirmed in Colorado right at the worst possible time.

 

[CertifiedKiwi]

Very different country. First, it's a secluded remote island with a population of under 5 million and a population density of 18 people per square kilometer. Basically comparable to Colorado if Colorado were an island with its own border controls out somewhere in the Pacific. Not saying their efforts shouldn't be recognized, but it's a very different game they're playing.

NZ Society as a whole was united in their Govt's approach to Covid. I think unity was the key to their success. More so than its geographical advantages.

 

[Joe T.]

That is with no one taking any precautions. Imagine if no one from the start of pandemic was taking precautions then the deaths and cases would have been higher.

Take a look at places like Sweden and Belarus that had very minimal restrictions by comparison through most of the past year.




They handled it better. The fear is what killed everyone else. The sensationalized coverage/propaganda has been insane, it's like the anti-Trump coverage taken to a whole new level. That succeeded at fooling people for years that he was guilty of Russian collusion and calling Neo Nazis very fine people, so fooling people about something invisible to the human eye and playing up the common strain on hospitals this time of year (northern hemisphere) wasn't difficult at all.

 

[CertifiedKiwi]

Sweden is probably the best country to look at when it comes to a rather unmitigated approach (at least in regards to not shutting down businesses and overly restricting people's movements as well as not requiring masks). They frontloaded their deaths with their approach and got a lot of heat for it. Their deaths per 100 million population is now at 861. This used to look really bad, but now it's actually quite a bit lower than nations that have implemented heavy-handed restrictions and severe lockdowns such as the UK (1,102), Spain (1,087), Italy (1,247), Belgium (1,691), France (993), and the USA (1,081).

I believe its higher if you compare it to its neighbours which have implemented lockdowns eg Norway and Denmark.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I believe its higher if you compare it to its neighbours which have implemented lockdowns eg Norway and Denmark.

Sure, but what did they give up? I don't know. I'd also love to see the total mortality statistics for all three nations. I doubt we'll be able to do a proper analysis on the effects of COVID and the various responses to it until a year or so from now.

NZ Society as a whole was united in their Govt's approach to Covid. I think unity was the key to their success. More so than its geographical advantages.

Most likely a big factor and also why Japan was most likely doing so well for so long.

Social unity and especially unity with government was never in the cards for the United States.

 

[OnionSnake]

A lot of people thought it was all over once the election was over, pretty embarrassing. Then you've got the same people still shouting how it's overblown, just a flu etc. Stupid people all around.

Sure, but what did they give up? I don't know. I'd also love to see the total mortality statistics for all three nations. I doubt we'll be able to do a proper analysis on the effects of COVID and the various responses to it until a year or so from now.



Most likely a big factor and also why Japan was most likely doing so well for so long.

Social unity and especially unity with government was never in the cards for the United States.

Last I read Sweden had more deaths and more negative financial impact than their neighbors who did lockdowns...

 

[cryptoadam]

I think you can pin point the exact date this happened.

Basically once the BLM riots broke out everyone stopped caring.

I mean when the experts media and leaders all go out and riot and say insane shit like racism is more dangerous than COVID or you need to go out and protests its more important than the pandemic it was over.

Ask a sane person to watch that and then tell then to stay home sacrifice everything. Of course they wont care anymore.

I remember back then US was down to a few hundred deaths a day cases had peaked and then BAM BLAMTIFA hit and it took off.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Last I read Sweden had more deaths and more negative financial impact than their neighbors who did lockdowns...

Definitely more COVID coded deaths. Got a source for higher "negative financial impact?" I'd love to hear an explanation for that.

 

[Airbus Jr]

The fear is what killed everyone else.The sensationalized coverage/propaganda has been insane, it's like the anti-Trump coverage taken to a whole new level. That succeeded at fooling people for years that he was guilty of Russian collusion and calling Neo Nazis very fine people, so fooling people about something invisible to the human eye and playing up the common strain on hospitals this time of year (northern hemisphere) wasn't difficult at all.

This virus is real and not a propaganda or fake news

Real people died because of it

Wake the f up samurai

Told you some Trump voters are batshit crazy and will bring politics into this and youre one of the prime examples what im talking about

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Americans were too selfish and comfortable to adapt to the conditions that came with a viral pandemic.

We out here

 

[Joe T.]

Last I read Sweden had more deaths and more negative financial impact than their neighbors who did lockdowns...

That's a disproportionate comparison for very obvious reasons. Take a look at Sweden's deaths below and rationalize to me why you would think they would need to implement draconian measures when previous years with similar or worse mortality rates did not.

 

[OnionSnake]

Definitely more COVID coded deaths. Got a source for higher "negative financial impact?" I'd love to hear an explanation for that.

Their Q2 dropped more than other Nordic countries:

Sweden's GDP slumped 8.6% in Q2, more sharply than its neighbors despite its no-lockdown policy

Denmark, Finland, and Norway all registered disruptions, as well as shielding their populations from COVID-19 with lockdowns.

www.businessinsider.com

They tried to spin it that they did better than other EU at large countries however:

Coronavirus: Sweden's economy hit less hard by pandemic

After avoiding a Covid-19 lockdown, the country sees its economy shrink less than in other EU nations.

www.bbc.com

But like that article says it was their largest drop in 40 years.

Although businesses have largely continued to operate in Sweden, the country's economy is highly dependent on exports, which were hit by lack of demand from abroad.

Basically even if you don't lockdown, people don't want Sweden's shit so they aren't buying. Maybe it's turned around since August no idea, but pointing to Sweden as a sign of success last I read was not a great idea.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Their Q2 dropped more than other Nordic countries:

Sweden's GDP slumped 8.6% in Q2, more sharply than its neighbors despite its no-lockdown policy

Denmark, Finland, and Norway all registered disruptions, as well as shielding their populations from COVID-19 with lockdowns.

www.businessinsider.com

They tried to spin it that they did better than other EU at large countries however:

Coronavirus: Sweden's economy hit less hard by pandemic

After avoiding a Covid-19 lockdown, the country sees its economy shrink less than in other EU nations.

www.bbc.com

But like that article says it was their largest drop in 40 years.



Basically even if you don't lockdown, people don't want Sweden's shit so they aren't buying. Maybe it's turned around since August no idea, but pointing to Sweden as a sign of success last I read was not a great idea.

Very incomplete picture, obviously, and I'm not going to go by GDP drop % to gauge the health of their economy, personally. It was basically every country's "largest drop."

I'd love to see some more meaningful stats like unemployment and business closures, etc. I'm sure it will be a while before we have enough data to really draw any conclusions.

 

[Woo-Fu]

American society isn't equipped to fight covid. We're equipped to live through it, most of us.

 

[deafmedal]

What exactly would you folk who say the US should have done something different have done differently? Realistically given the state of our society please, none of this "only essential workers..." nonsense.

 

[Joe T.]

This virus is real and not a propaganda or fake news

No fake news you say?

Where are all the collapsing people in the rest of the world?

You don't want to go down that fake news road.

 

[Airbus Jr]

No fake news you say?
Where are all the collapsing people in the rest of the world?

You don't want to go down that fake news road.

And this is coming from someone who called Covid 19 as nothing but an amalgamation of flu, cancer and tumours

Sorry but cant take your word seriously after that

 

[JaseMath]

What dumbfuck country does OP live in? Earth to moron the whole world has to deal with this bullshit. Go fuck off dipshit. I’m sorry you want to troll about dumb movies or whatever go ahead but this is peoples lives you asshole.

You seem like a really nice person.

 

[Joe T.]

Amd this is coming from someone who called Covid 19 as nothing but an amalgamation of flu, cancer and tumours

Sorry but cant take your word seriously after that

You're one of the most disingenuous posters on this board. You were shown this evidence en masse in the OT and ran with your tail between your legs, incapable of engaging in any sort of discussion.




"These account for things like trauma, car accidents, gun shot wounds and even drug overdoses."

Go ahead, explain how I'm wrong here since you couldn't there. What she is saying is exactly what I am saying, all deaths count as covid deaths should they test positive in the last 60 days. Do you think she lying? Do you think the UK government is lying? The Canadian government? I want to hear it.

 

[CertifiedKiwi]

Social unity and especially unity with government was never in the cards for the United States.

True. I guess to answer the OP, in my opinion the US is not giving up fighting rather they are doing the best the can with such a divided society

The virus is continuing to spread at alarming rate and at the same time their economy will continue to suffer. But it would at the very least prevent a much worse situation or worst a collapsed health system which would be a catastrophe to their economy

 

[jimmyd]

What exactly would you folk who say the US should have done something different have done differently? Realistically given the state of our society please, none of this "only essential workers..." nonsense.

At the very least, a mandatory mask policy backed by a president who didn't trivialise the situation.

 

[Moomalade74]

January is going to be absolutely horrible, the US “response” is a catastrophe:

COVID-19 model predicts 150,000 more US deaths within the next month

A top COVID-19 model predicts 150,000 more deaths in the U.S. in the next month as the country heads into what is anticipated to be the worst phase of the pandemic.

www.google.com

I remember people shit talking because I called out Trump’s comment about the flu killing 100k a year...the last time it came close to that was 50 years ago. Here we are at 75k in December alone and could double it this month.

Absolutely horrible

The worshipping at the altar of models is the thing I find most disturbing about all this. It's like our technocratic overlords come down from the mountain, holding the sacred models aloft over their heads. "The models have spoken!" they cry, whilst society kneels in servile awe, awaiting their new instructions.

 

[CertifiedKiwi]

American society isn't equipped to fight covid. We're equipped to live through it, most of us.

Maybe that is why China is doing much better at managing Covid because their system of gov and controlled society are equipped for managing pandemics. Well according to their stats amyways that they are doing better lol

 

[Decontamination Silo]

Shit's fake homie. Look at how they're partying in Wuhan.

 

[deafmedal]

At the very least, a mandatory mask policy backed by a president who didn't trivialise the situation.

On a Federal level? So just ignore the Constitution? And how exactly did Trump trivialize the situation?

 

[KiNeMz]

I'll be very honest. I had no hopes about my country but I expected the US to do much better. Pop culture really portrays you all much better than you guys are. The politicization of a disease, that's just petty politics. Many of your politicians in power spread lies about vaccines and masks, that's just disgusting even moreso considering they are the first ones getting the vaccines now. I thought US would be like NZ. Those guys are roaming mask free now. Who knew wearing masks and following guidelines rather than bitching about them would keep the virus in control? NZ, and now look at them.

Something to note about NZ. There is only 4 million people there. It's really not comparable to USA.

 

[AgentP]

I gave up a long time ago. My punishment was catching COVID last month and having a mild fever for 2 days and diminished smell for about a week. No regrets.

Which is the problem. Healthy people who don't give a shit about others. I wonder how many people you infected that infected others and how many will die?