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[Rocco Schiavone]

Is this a Bugaga Video where he shits on the PS5 pro and compares It with a 4090??

 

[Mister Wolf]

Is this a Bugaga Video where he shits on the PS5 pro and compares It with a 4090??

He compared it to a 4070 and it still came up short by a lot.

 

[mckmas8808]

Cost of PSSR on PS5 Pro is same as RTX 2060 Super costing to run DLSS. 2ms to 3ms. It will not magically improve like some fanboys are applying as it is hardware based so it will only improve when AMD improves it hardware
otherwise, Sony will have to approach Nvidia hardware if they are really serious in AI and RT.

Sony is never moving to Nvidia. Mark Cerny and others at Sony will need to make AI and RT better on AMD processors. It's the only way.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I Play at 30 as its a slow game and stable enough on my tv. Feel bas for oled users.

I played it at 4k60 on my OLED tv. Feel bad for 30fps users.

 

[adamsapple]

It actually performs worse with slightly lower resolution.

Cost of PSSR and higher settings probably. On base PS5 game reconstructs to 1440p from that ~800p, on Pro it's to 4k so cost is higher.

It's also safe to assume that Pro can't reach 6800 or 7700XT performance, it's bandwidth limited to that 30-35% better than PS5.

3 way split using previous DF coverage:

 

[mansoor1980]

3 way split using previous DF coverage:

damn the series x is a beast . beats the ps5 pro

 

[Topher]

Did they though? They tried to keep input resolution the same in Performance mode and bring the raster settings up to the original Quality mode (i dont even know if they fully matched them) and it still performs worse than base Performance. Seems to me either PSSR is too heavy or the raster jump in power is not materializing in this game, or both.

Yes they did. Remedy increased the effects rather than increase the resolution. So instead of going from render resolution of 864p to an output of 1440p in base PS5, PSSR has to upscale 864p to 4k. As Bojji and others have pointed out many times, that isn't ideal. I think it clear that the game right now would look much better if Remedy had focused on getting the render resolution higher than 1080p.

 

[mckmas8808]

damn the series x is a beast . beats the ps5 pro

Are you looking at the image or just the framerate counter?

 

[mansoor1980]

Are you looking at the image or just the framerate counter?

framerate ,remedy just hates playstation , this is a terrible patch

 

[sachos]

Looking at these benchmark it is not surprising why the Pro is struggling. RX6800 is also extremely slow compared to 4070, 7700XT not much better as well in 1080P RT.

But that benchamark is running Max Raster settings on top of Max RT, it actually shows how the Pro seems to be underperforming compared to the 7700XT when the Pro is running some settings on lower than lowest on PC.

 

[TintoConCasera]

3 way split using previous DF coverage:

What a disaster. Game's patched for the Pro should, imo, always aim at 60fps as the bare minimum, and once they've achieved it start adding more visual flare.

Who cares about extra visual stuff if the game runs like shit?

 

[Kangx]

Kangx for $800 though please tell me it’s running at 120 fps, 60 fps to me is low end hardware.

Huh? I am not sure where you going with this question? I thought you have a genuine question so i answer you, but this seems like a troll post?

Jesus fucking christ, have you seen this game run on the ps5? sorry mod, I have curse. You asked all those questions I thought you know how hardware work and being genuine, but you end up with the question asking a $700 by the way machine run UE5 with this level of quality at 120fps.

The pro seriously damage too many brain cells on here and the internet.

 

[mckmas8808]

framerate ,remedy just hates playstation , this is a terrible patch

Now look at the image and tell me which one looks better.

 

[Gaiff]

But that benchamark is running Max Raster settings on top of Max RT, it actually shows how the Pro seems to be underperforming compared to the 7700XT when the Pro is running some settings on lower than lowest on PC.

That Pro benchmark is running in the heaviest area in the game. That forest part is a GPU killer. You can’t just take a benchmark that tests a different area and draw conclusions.

 

[mansoor1980]

Now look at the image and tell me which one looks better.

i want everything to look better on the ps5pro goddammit , not just the image quality......................

 

[Nex240]

PSSR isn't as good as DLSS at low resolutions and PS5 Pro isn't RDNA4 with RT that matches a 4070. This shouldn't be a surprise but people really get over hyped on Sony products.
Some comments were saying PS5 Pro should do better than a 7900 XT, cmon that card is HUGE.

 

[mrcroket]

So PSSR is worse than DLSS and PS5 Pro GPU worse than a 4070

pikachuface.jpg

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

He compared it to a 4070 and it still came up short by a lot.

Thanks for the info but I don't watch Bugaga videos as a matter of principle.

 

[Antony1992]

Now look at the image and tell me which one looks better.

From a performance mode I expect higher framerate. That's the goal of such a mode.

Hence, Series X performance is better.

 

[shamoomoo]

I don't think you can call a game that got this amount of changes to the way it handles raytracing done, specifically for this one port, a "quick port"

a lot of care and thought went into the way they adjusted the raytracing here. a "quick port" would have been to just dial everything down until it runs stable.
but that's not what they did. they deliberately adjusted things in a way that makes it run faster but also still look cohesive.

like the way they adjusted the distant mountains. a quick and dirty port would have just reduced the BVH distance and left it there (see Watch Dogs Legion). but they hand adjust what gets included in the BVH so that, while the trees get culled, the underlying geometry of the hills still gets traced against, even tho these mountains are far further away than their general BVH distance is set up.

they also hand adjust the BVH update rate for specific objects. so that important characters like Alan and Saga update every frame, while other less important objects update at half or even lower rates as their importance goes down.

the PC version didn't have any of these adjustments in place, so all of this had to be specifically implemented for the Pro version.
in the video Alex even explains why they couldn't just implement these settings easily on PC as it would clash with some RT settings, so if implemented in the PC version it would basically need to be a completely separate RT mode that, when toggled on, would need to lock you out from the more granular settings you have.

Yes,you can. We don't know the strengths or weaknesses of RDNA4 Ray tracing vs Nvidia's, so some effects could be "free" vs other type of RT.

 

[bundylove]

I played it at 4k60 on my OLED tv. Feel bad for 30fps users.

I am playing it at 30 . Performance looks like ass and i do like the rt fearures. Night and day difference .

Its my preference for this game

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Huh? I am not sure where you going with this question? I thought you have a genuine question so i answer you, but this seems like a troll post?

Jesus fucking christ, have you seen this game run on the ps5? sorry mod, I have curse. You asked all those questions I thought you know how hardware work and being genuine, but you end up with the question asking a $700 by the way machine run UE5 with this level of quality at 120fps.

The pro seriously damage too many brain cells on here and the internet.

If it’s not running at 120fps then why should I buy a pro for $800? It would be a better buy for me to pickup a mid end card for almost half the cost.

 

[sachos]

Yes they did. Remedy increased the effects rather than increase the resolution. So instead of going from render resolution of 864p to an output of 1440p in base PS5, PSSR has to upscale 864p to 4k. As Bojji and others have pointed out many times, that isn't ideal. I think it clear that the game right now would look much better if Remedy had focused on getting the render resolution higher than 1080p.

I know, but you said you were "Expecting what Cerny said. Quality mode with a 60fps target."
Im saying that they in fact tried to do what you are asking for by getting the raster settings closer to original Quality mode (i dont think they actually matched them) but even at a lower input resolution they still failed to achieve 60.
So it is not a case of "Remedy trying to do more than that".

 

[Horseganador]

PSSR works perfectly when used well like in FF7 Rebirth, using the botched job Remedy did as an example is just nonsense.

 

[Kangx]

If it’s not running at 120fps then why should I buy a pro for $800? It would be a better buy for me to pickup a mid end card for almost half the cost.

Yea, go ahead and fucking do that, and stop responding to me. You wasted my time for nothing. What a freaking troll.

 

[kevboard]

Yes,you can. We don't know the strengths or weaknesses of RDNA4 Ray tracing vs Nvidia's, so some effects could be "free" vs other type of RT.

RDNA4 Raytracing will probably still be behind Nvidia in basic all aspects. it will just not be as bad as before. maybe RDNA4 will be roughly on par with RTX40, but by the time it's on the market, RTX50 will frogleap it again.

 

[Ironman_Bad]

Was planning to buy this soon will wait now good job remedy

 

[shamoomoo]

framerate ,remedy just hates playstation , this is a terrible patch

The Pro's performance mode is similar to the quality to mode on the PS5 base,the comparison is a bit nonsensical because the Pro's version of Alan Wake is a bit heavier vs the original console game.

 

[proandrad]

The Pro Performance mode is really low effort here. They should have delayed the patch to get it right.

 

[skyfinch]

Series S Pro is a beast! They should be bundle this game with this monster of a machine and say with the catchphrase "Best Place to play with Alan".

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Yea, go ahead and fucking do that, and stop responding to me. You wasted my time for nothing. What a freaking troll.

Kangx, I probably own more Playstation products than you entirely. You almost made me justify why I should consider buying the pro for $800, but for 60 fps in that First Descendant title that is not good enough for me at all, that is low end performance.

 

[kevboard]

PSSR works perfectly when used well like in FF7 Rebirth, using the botched job Remedy did as an example is just nonsense.

FF7 is a way simpler game in terms of rendering. it doesn't do anything modern. it still runs at such an old version of UE4 that it doesn't even support TAAU. this is the sole reason it looked as blurry as it does on base PS5 in the first place.

FF7 didn't use any form of intelligent upscaling whatsoever, while the base PS5 version of Alan Wake 2 did already use upsampling.

also, the simpler the effects and materials, the easier it is for a reconstruction algorithm to add convincing detail.


so you are comparing a game running on a super old Unreal Engine 4 version that simply output a nearest neighbour 1080p to 2160p scale,
to a cutting edge Northlight game that already used FSR2 to reconstruct the image, which simply has been replaced by a slightly more sophisticated reconstruction method.

if Alan Wake 2 just ran at a native 836p on base PS5 with no reconstruction, the difference with PSSR added would be enormous. and that would be the only fair comparison to make.

 

[powder]

I played through this on the base PS5 when it released and I'm now on my second playthrough with the Pro – while the raytracing inclusion is a nice addition they clearly need to sort out some optimization issues with their engine. I don't think the PS5 Pro is at fault here, but rather Remedy dropping the ball. Really strange move considering Sony was touting this as a banner "PS5 Pro enhanced" title when it honestly looks worse than the base game at points. I also ran into a bug with the camera that essentially broke the game for me about halfway through.

I'm hopeful for a patch but now that they've effectively moved on from Alan Wake 2 internally I'm not optimistic that this will get the attention it needs.

 

[bundylove]

PSSR works perfectly when used well like in FF7 Rebirth, using the botched job Remedy did as an example is just nonsense.

This is just a poor launch of the system and games are nkt ready.
There are several games advertised as pro patched but even gt7 and others that they demod are still not ready for public.

So, we cant blame remedy and we cant blame the pro when every other dev is behind and remedy rushed something out by just changing the settings.

I think we will see much better results soon and this goes back to what i said before. Wait 4 to 6 months and then get the pro. By then we will have better examples what the pro can actually do.

 

[Topher]

I know, but you said you were "Expecting what Cerny said. Quality mode with a 60fps target."
Im saying that they in fact tried to do what you are asking for by getting the raster settings closer to original Quality mode (i dont think they actually matched them) but even at a lower input resolution they still failed to achieve 60.
So it is not a case of "Remedy trying to do more than that".

Remedy matched quality mode and then went further and added more visual effects. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[K' Dash]

PSSR isn't as good as DLSS at low resolutions and PS5 Pro isn't RDNA4 with RT that matches a 4070. This shouldn't be a surprise but people really get over hyped on Sony products.
Some comments were saying PS5 Pro should do better than a 7900 XT, cmon that card is HUGE.

Don't worry, the PS5 Pro Pro is coming. Without a controller, HDMI and power cables.

 

[Salty Pickle]

Cost of PSSR on PS5 Pro is same as RTX 2060 Super costing to run DLSS. 2ms to 3ms. It will not magically improve like some fanboys are applying as it is hardware based so it will only improve when AMD improves it hardware
otherwise, Sony will have to approach Nvidia hardware if they are really serious in AI and RT.

What is the amount of tops on 2060 super? I do believe the ps5 pro has more..

Cost of pssr will get lower over time on the ps5 pro (like the leaks stated) as the model and implementation of it improves. Only a die hard pcmr nvidia fanboy would deny that.

 

[Venom Snake]

From what i've seen so far, AW2 is the exception rather than general rule. I don't know if it's fair to ask more from Remedy, honestly.

Yea, go ahead and fucking do that, and stop responding to me. You wasted my time for nothing. What a freaking troll.

Give it up, you're wasting your time. It's not worth risking a ban for people who are already on a collision course with a brick wall, let them finish the journey.

 

[bundylove]

PoorShitSonyResolution. PSSR

 

[Skitso]

What the fuck Remedy?! If there's two modes available for your game on a Pro console, you make sure the performance mode is 60fps locked. When you achieve that, then consider adding more resolution and/or detail.

Offering worse performance for people who has a Pro console is an insult and a slap in the face. I've been a Remedy fan since Death Rally, but this patch really soured my opinion of the company! Fix this shit Remedy!

 

[Fbh]

I just don't think raytracing is worth the performance hit on console. Resolution and frame rate should be the priorty.

Yeah Raytracing is great but it's not for this console gen. I think that's also true for stuff like nanite and lumen on UE5.
On PC ,where you can add them without murdering the performance and image quality in the process, they are great. But on console they aren't worth the trade off.

Personally I think the approach we've seen in several games, including many first party ones, of boosting what Ps5 is good at doing instead of adding tech it can't really handle, has been much more appealing. Forbidden West is still the best looking console game to me because every game with technically better graphics asks you to either give up 60fps or destroy the IQ, and none of them offer a visual experience that is worth the trade off IMO.

 

[bundylove]

Yeah Raytracing is great but it's not for this console gen. I think that's also true for stuff like nanite and lumen on UE5.
On PC ,where you can add them without murdering the performance and image quality in the process, they are great. But on console they aren't worth the trade off.

Personally I think the approach we've seen in several games, including many first party ones, of boosting what Ps5 is good at doing instead of adding tech it can't really handle, has been much more appealing. Forbidden West is still the best looking console game to me because every game with technically better graphics asks you to either give up 60fps or destroy the IQ, and none of them offer a visual experience that is worth the trade off IMO.

I dont think thats entirely true.

I remember all those tech demos like the infiltrator or the first rt demos on the 2080ti and i bet even with the pro you can never replicate the same though the hardware for sure is more powerfull than the 2080 ti.

So maybe we could have great decent rt in games but either its an after thought or its not just hardware issue but maybe software/driver related on a system level.

 

[DenchDeckard]

PSSR works perfectly when used well like in FF7 Rebirth, using the botched job Remedy did as an example is just nonsense.

Ffviir only looks so good because the original ps5 version was so bad. It was horrific.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lots of dumb decisions here. Shouldve never increased graphics settings in the performance mode. Shouldve never tried to upscale from 864p to 4k. there is a reason why people on PC only upscale from 864p to 1440p. It's a waste of bandwidth and performance. the cost of reconstruction in this game is already extremely high. It was around 35% on PC when going from 1080p to 4k. God knows what it is for 864p. Just use the extra 30% gpu you have on improving resolution instead of increasing settings then reconstruct to 1440p from 900p or 960p. Would look much cleaner.

Should've never shipped the game with motion blur on. The shimmering is piss poor and worse than anything ive ever seen. i had to enable high post processing which had a massive 25-30% hit to performance which led me to disable RT reflections altogether. had i known the issue was with motion blur on, i wouldve never done this. Retarded from so-called professionals.

Adding RT reflections was good in theory but again, the extra 30% GPU power just isnt enough. I wouldve thought the extra RT cores would double the GPU performance but thats not happening here. The console is performing very poorly and not upto specs. I saw the same thing in Spiderman 2 as soon as I would enable the higher RT effects, the resolution would tank form a pristine native 4k to really shimmery 1440p image. The new RDNA4 RT cores should be performing way better but just like standard rasterization, the console just isnt performing like a 16 tflops rdna 2 GPU with rdna 4 cores.

 

[DanielG165]

$900?!

Different territories exist.

 

[DanielG165]

Is this a Bugaga Video where he shits on the PS5 pro and compares It with a 4090??

No, he compared it to a 4070, the GPU that many were saying would be comparable to the PS5 Pro, and the 4070 was considerably ahead.

 

[Balducci30]

Wait so the shimmering is still there?

 

[Kangx]

Lots of dumb decisions here. Shouldve never increased graphics settings in the performance mode. Shouldve never tried to upscale from 864p to 4k. there is a reason why people on PC only upscale from 864p to 1440p. It's a waste of bandwidth and performance. the cost of reconstruction in this game is already extremely high. It was around 35% on PC when going from 1080p to 4k. God knows what it is for 864p. Just use the extra 30% gpu you have on improving resolution instead of increasing settings then reconstruct to 1440p from 900p or 960p. Would look much cleaner.

Should've never shipped the game with motion blur on. The shimmering is piss poor and worse than anything ive ever seen. i had to enable high post processing which had a massive 25-30% hit to performance which led me to disable RT reflections altogether. had i known the issue was with motion blur on, i wouldve never done this. Retarded from so-called professionals.

Adding RT reflections was good in theory but again, the extra 30% GPU power just isnt enough. I wouldve thought the extra RT cores would double the GPU performance but thats not happening here. The console is performing very poorly and not upto specs. I saw the same thing in Spiderman 2 as soon as I would enable the higher RT effects, the resolution would tank form a pristine native 4k to really shimmery 1440p image. The new RDNA4 RT cores should be performing way better but just like standard rasterization, the console just isnt performing like a 16 tflops rdna 2 GPU with rdna 4 cores.

Agree with everything you said.

It needs bandwidth though especially with RT. Not sure where they get this from AMD when infinity cache needed on AMD card. It's too expensive on the die for Sony.

This is the best they could do I think. Seems like any game that does not take a lot of bandwidth the pro will do reasonable well and it seems like kinda rare now but games like AW2 with be more in the future.

The pro is an OK stop gap right now for who prefer to play on consoles but the next generation consoles which already here on pc, I expect it to run at least 4k PSSR quality on most games with higher RT setting. It should doable because of CPU upgrade and alot more bandwidth. The price will sit somewhere around 1k though.

I expect the ps5, the pro still viable in 4 years when the ps6 arrive. Going from the ps5 to the Ps6 is like go from low setting 1080p to 4k max setting.

 

[SABRE220]

Personally just think it’s early versions of PSSR birthing pains

But wouldn't that just result in better image stability for pssr? Here and several games performance is no where near a 4070 and in rt it gets trounced by ampere let alone lovelace. Did you mean devs can lower pssr cost and get better performance closer to a 4070 in the future with better optimized ports or were we bamboozled by hype?

 

[TGO]

What a disaster. Game's patched for the Pro should, imo, always aim at 60fps as the bare minimum, and once they've achieved it start adding more visual flare.

Who cares about extra visual stuff if the game runs like shit?

Performance Mode doesn't have RT and looks worse.
The "Pro Patch" is straight up bad and incredibly inconsistent.
And RT is on the level The Callisto Protocol had at launch on Xbox before they fixed it.