lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
agree we should go for good resolution with 60fps, instead of these "advanced" tech, leave that to PC.
Some devs is doing way too much for the console version.
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Digital Foundry: Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake - PS5/XSX/S Tech Review - UE5 Nanite/Lumen Come at a Heavy Cost
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Some devs is doing way too much for the console version.
MALpractice311
Member
UE5, Nanite, and Lumen fuck with resolution and framerates? I, for one, am shocked. Shocked, I say. Who could have seen this coming?
Kerotan
Member
MS were a fucking disgrace releasing that console.454p on Series S. We're back to the N64 era boys. I know people love remakes but we didn't ask to remake the resolutions too.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just bought it. I was never a fan of Brothers, but I adore It Takes Two. It's good to go back and see Joseph Fares plant the seeds for what was to come. I am appreciating the little details controlling the two brothers a lot more now than i did ten years ago. go figure.
DF wasnt lying. Game is very heavy on the GPU. CPU usage is non-existent but my 3080 runs this game between 30-50 fps maxed out at 4k dlss quality. i just capped it to 30 fps. i dont know why people say vrr or gsync hides frame drops, i can notice every fucking frame drop on my LGCX even with gysnc engaged. just capped it to 30 fps because its much smoother that way.
Not surprised consoles are running it at 1440p 30 fps. Game is beautiful and very pleasing to look at but im not seeing why its so expensive on the GPU. other ue5 games ive played arent this heavy.
DF wasnt lying. Game is very heavy on the GPU. CPU usage is non-existent but my 3080 runs this game between 30-50 fps maxed out at 4k dlss quality. i just capped it to 30 fps. i dont know why people say vrr or gsync hides frame drops, i can notice every fucking frame drop on my LGCX even with gysnc engaged. just capped it to 30 fps because its much smoother that way.
Not surprised consoles are running it at 1440p 30 fps. Game is beautiful and very pleasing to look at but im not seeing why its so expensive on the GPU. other ue5 games ive played arent this heavy.
ABnormal
Member
This. UE5 is simply a new version of UE and it usesvarious techs which will need some beefier hardware to run completely, but it makes possible things that never have been, from a realtime rendering standpoint and data management also. Next gen will be probably have it as a new UE standard.
ABnormal
Member
We are still talking of an advantage that is only perceptible to analisys tools. In this gen there will be never a significant difference to the eye.
kazuyamishima
Member
The PS5 can't come soon enough.
Elysium44
Banned
But not the devs for forcing expensive techniques in a performance mode?
nvidia are to blame for not making the 4090 more powerful I guess. Nothing to do with the stupid devs of this game.
You can't blame the Series S on this occasion. It would be like if Capcom had forced RT and hair strands on the Series S performance mode for Resident Evil 4 - it would be stupid, which is why they didn't do it. If they had, performance and/or resolution would have suffered dramatically - just like it does in this game.
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SKYF@ll
Member
It seems that even 1080p is heavy(GPU) and PCs are also struggling.
I'm starting to worry about future UE5 games.
Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake Benchmarks & PC Performance Analysis
Powered by Unreal Engine 5, it's time now to benchmark Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake and examine its performance on PC.
www.dsogaming.com
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
If Lumen is what is so taxing then you cant expect devs to just take it out. If they are taking it out then they need to provide a baked lighting solution which means shipping the game with lighting textures. probably a completely different workflow.But not the devs for forcing expensive techniques in a performance mode?
nvidia are to blame for not making the 4090 more powerful I guess. Nothing to do with the stupid devs of this game.
You can't blame the Series S on this occasion. It would be like if Capcom had forced RT and hair strands on the Series S performance mode for Resident Evil 4 - it would be stupid, which is why they didn't do it. If they had, performance and/or resolution would have suffered dramatically - just like it does in this game.
Lumen and other realtime lighting techniques help devs ship games faster and more efficiently. A lot of the games we have gotten this gen are basically baked in with RT slapped on top. Its possible that this game was designed from the ground up using lumen and there is simply no fallback.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
whats frustrating is that Epic keeps touting how they have improved performance at every GDC presentation. They were saying how they can run the matrix demo at 2x the framerate now with the latest UE5 build. Said the same for the very first UE5 demo. Whatever they are doing is just not translating into ingame performance.It seems that even 1080p is heavy(GPU) and PCs are also struggling.
I'm starting to worry about future UE5 games.
Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake Benchmarks & PC Performance Analysis
Powered by Unreal Engine 5, it's time now to benchmark Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake and examine its performance on PC.
Elysium44
Banned
I see what you mean. So they can't be blamed at this stage for not just taking it out perhaps, but they can certainly be blamed for designing it to require an excessively expensive method in the first place, if that is the case.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Two Bro Remake looks like shit. Crap res too.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
if it made developing the game quicker and cheaper I will give it a bit more leway in my criticism. My 4070 huffs and puffs but I did not have to dial any visuals back.
Elysium44
Banned
It seems that even 1080p is heavy(GPU) and PCs are also struggling.
I'm starting to worry about future UE5 games.
Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake Benchmarks & PC Performance Analysis
Powered by Unreal Engine 5, it's time now to benchmark Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons Remake and examine its performance on PC.
You have to wonder how the 'recommended' GPU is an RTX 2060 Super, when even an RTX 3080 can't maintain 60fps minimums at 1080p.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
dont look at the minimum framerate. thats just a 1% low which could be a stutter or something rare. the average is well over 60 fps.
this is also ultra settings which are very taxing compared to even high. 2060 should run this at 1080p 30 fps using some kind of dlss upscaling and medium settings.
Elysium44
Banned
You'd hope a PC version especially would use a 'recommended' card which can average 60fps at 1080p though, and preferably without upscaling.
How competent are these devs? I notice the Steam page cites the minimum GPU as a GTX 1650 8GB. You can't get that card with 8GB to my knowledge, so this is a lazy mistake.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Fuck that’s heavy on the GPU.Just bought it. I was never a fan of Brothers, but I adore It Takes Two. It's good to go back and see Joseph Fares plant the seeds for what was to come. I am appreciating the little details controlling the two brothers a lot more now than i did ten years ago. go figure.
DF wasnt lying. Game is very heavy on the GPU. CPU usage is non-existent but my 3080 runs this game between 30-50 fps maxed out at 4k dlss quality. i just capped it to 30 fps. i dont know why people say vrr or gsync hides frame drops, i can notice every fucking frame drop on my LGCX even with gysnc engaged. just capped it to 30 fps because its much smoother that way.
Not surprised consoles are running it at 1440p 30 fps. Game is beautiful and very pleasing to look at but im not seeing why its so expensive on the GPU. other ue5 games ive played arent this heavy.
Kataploom
Gold Member
This is what I've been saying for a while. Those consoles get limited by themselves way before Series S is even a factor.
Hell we even have developers testimony on how the Serie S version actually helped them so better optimizations for the others so it's existence had just benefited them, with the exception of BG3 on XSX which is the outlier, but iirc big consoles wouldn't even have performance mode in AW2 if not for the XSS
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
There's a lot of console bashing here but let's not forget Steam hardware survey. Most PCs do not a 4070 or higher.
JackMcGunns
Member
454p on Series S. We're back to the N64 era boys. I know people love remakes but we didn't ask to remake the resolutions too.
But did it affect the other platforms? Imagine PC gamers with an RTX 4090 making fun of framerate and performance of RTX 4060 users, you can’t imagine it because it’s dumb and pointless. People who bought a Series S paid less and are still having fun. That’s Jordan laughing at your pettiness
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Bojji
Gold Member
On consoles devs should choose between:
-lumen
-nanite
-virtual shadow maps
Using 3 of them together is too taxing. They should evaluate what they need the most.
For example in this game with this camera angle nanite and VSM are IMO not needed, you won't see many benefits but lumen is essential without baked lighting. At the same time they could have used nothing with good baked lighting but that requires more manual work.
JackMcGunns
Member
Got caught lying and now you’re crying? He said the “Majority of the time the dynamic resolution rests at 720p” but you disingenuously tried to say 454p was somehow the norm.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Got caught lying and now you’re crying? He said the “Majority of the time the dynamic resolution rests at 720p” but you disingenuously tried to say 454p was somehow the norm.
That’s what I said. Now quit crying with your, "Leave the Series S alone", nonsense. We’re taking the piss.
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JackMcGunns
Member
It’s not about me saying “Leave the Series S alone” it’s about me calling out you’re console warring.
Get that nonesense out of here
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
There’s no console warring. You got upset and cried foul because I laughed at the low resolution. Imagine being this triggered over this.
JackMcGunns
Member
So you didn’t single out a specific console and laugh at it for its lack of performance? You were also making fun of PS5 and Series X performance. My mistake then.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
A poster blamed the weak Series S and I said no, this isn’t on the console, this is on the dev and then pointed out that the PS5’s performance also tanks to the low 30s at 1080p too.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
if you sit sufficiently far enough away with a small tv it will look exactly the same. I don't see the problem.
Bojji
Gold Member
I think lumen is overrated, it's not "one size fits all" and can't be used in all environments. Disco lights, when I first saw this I thought my GPU was broken lol:
Even hardware accelerated version in Layers of Fear has this artifacts. RTXGI is cleaner in Metro for sure.
In the end nothing beats good baked lighting and lumen and other techniques should be used only in open world games with dynamic TOD.
Even hardware accelerated version in Layers of Fear has this artifacts. RTXGI is cleaner in Metro for sure.
In the end nothing beats good baked lighting and lumen and other techniques should be used only in open world games with dynamic TOD.
Astray
Member
Better visuals for much less work?
UE is pitched at devs, not gamers, if it were up to us then things would still be in UE3 or whatever because we don't know how the sausage is actually made.
crackajack
Member
I would have thought UE5 was designed specifially with current gen in mind. And vice versa current gen was desigend with UE5 in mind.
So why does it kinda kill consoles while also making top PC gear sweat? Shouldn't there be some lower/consolespecific settings and workflow proposals like with RT (or like softshadows after Doom3 and Fear pushed that stuff, or the several AA techniques...). I understand that you can't just turn it off, since that would require an entire different approach, but if the used methods are too taxing, it has to have some slider values to crank up the framerate and be less costly for resolution. What's the point in some barely visible effects, if the resolution is going back to PS3 era? Is this tech just more convenient for the dev, so not using it, doing it with old PS4 pipeline, is out of the question, and they can really not change anything in UE5 to make it run better, find a better compromise? It's either on, using UE5 fully or off, which means they could just use UE4 for the practically same results?
So why does it kinda kill consoles while also making top PC gear sweat? Shouldn't there be some lower/consolespecific settings and workflow proposals like with RT (or like softshadows after Doom3 and Fear pushed that stuff, or the several AA techniques...). I understand that you can't just turn it off, since that would require an entire different approach, but if the used methods are too taxing, it has to have some slider values to crank up the framerate and be less costly for resolution. What's the point in some barely visible effects, if the resolution is going back to PS3 era? Is this tech just more convenient for the dev, so not using it, doing it with old PS4 pipeline, is out of the question, and they can really not change anything in UE5 to make it run better, find a better compromise? It's either on, using UE5 fully or off, which means they could just use UE4 for the practically same results?
xrnzaaas
Member
You mean less work when using UE5? (fyi I'm a noob when it comes to technical stuff)
I think it's a double-edged sword, because if you release a game that runs like ass or has high base requirements on PC more people will avoid it or buy later at a discounted price.
Astray
Member
Yep, less work = less time spent building the game = less costs in most cases.
If you have less costs then you might be able to get profitable with less sales.
yamaci17
Member
rtx case is different
you have dlaa, which makes native 1080p look decent
you have dlss, which makes 900-1200p look amazing on 1440ps screens
and with 1200-1400p input, dlss simply looks stellar
and almost all RTX line up can take advantage of DLSS. the reason these games look so awful in terms of clarity is becaus how awful regular upscalers are
dlss at 480p input can match fsr at 960p input.
now imagine a game that upscales from 1200p to 4k with regular old upscalers
and then a game that upscales from 960p to 1440p or 1080p to 4K with DLSS
it just looks leagues different. the experience is simply different. as long as you're within 800-1080p with DLSS, games look great. with regular upscalers, it just leaves a bad taste
since dlss can match 960p-1080p input of other upscalers at 480p, you can kind of understand how good it is at 900p and above
if consoles had decent, dedicated, hardware based upscaling like DLSS, most of these concerns wouldn't even be concerns
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Fake
Member
midnightAI
Member
Nanite and Lumen arent the only issue (they are heavy, but that comes down to implementation), other devs can use it without much issue and for much more complex games. Its easy to blame Nanite and Lumen but its the devs choice to use those or not. UE5 is certainly not to blame here.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
JackMcGunns
Member
Ok, maybe the energy was misdirected towards you, but there is Series S hating in this thread
Case in point:
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Only if the thot has more than 2 legs. Listen to your little brother.
Kerotan
Member
That console shouldn't exist. It's a disgrace.Ok, maybe the energy was misdirected towards you, but there is Series S hating in this thread
Case in point: