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Digital Foundry: Starfield Tech Breakdown - 30FPS, Visuals, Rendering Tech + Game Impressions

Yeah and it doesn't look as good as this as an overall package.
I agree and disagree. So yes you're right. But you may be wrong. LOL Scam citizen allows a lot of things that Starfield does not. I wont poo poo the game because I am in day 1. I just think its shameful that NMS and SC allow you to fly anywhere and land your ship while it is reported that Starfield does not. So missing that sort of graphic heavy and cpu intense feature it better look better.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
Which is odd for Alex not to harp on the inconsistencies or inaccuracy of the RTGI shadow combo at the moment. Only because he used to go hard in the paint on his Dictator account back when HZD first came out on here, pointing out how inaccurate the RTGI lighting was compared to Star Citizen showing zoomed in screens and how the shadows don't fully accurately cast from the light source.

But he's always been pretty selective depending on where the games are coming from.

I will agree, however, I like the look of the lighting and atmosphere. Really digging the art direction that's reminding me of The Expanse in so many ways.

This truly is the best looking game so far that Bethesda will be putting out.
Exactly.


OMG, no proper reflections under the belly of a deer.... SOMEONE CALL THE POLICE!

Lol

Edit: I see you beat me to it DeepEnigma DeepEnigma
 
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darrylgorn

Member
It's running at 15 fps in the video on a 2070 super at 1080p...basically the system that is ps5 specs.

So Starfield would be running at 7.5 fps then.

Kevin Hart Ok GIF by NBA
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
As someone who games on pc, that dude is the most pc master race gamer ive ever seen. He always has to include that the pc version is better. Like it doesn’t even need to be said, everyone knows that. But on a podcast he was like scoffing at the idea of playing a game on switch.
He rarely does this at the expense of X series consoles. I almost never see him dog them vs the PC like he does PS5/Switch. Typical Windows/MS PCMR by proxy fan.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I'm no expert, that is for sure. But really? A first party game is too taxing for the reasonable expectations of people who own the flagship hardware? Really?

Perhaps I'm crazy. Just can't understand how it's possible. First party. Flagship console. But better off playing on a PC. Way too weird.
Pc should always be the best place to play of you have the hardware. Ain't no changing that here. Did you have this mentality every generation that first party ip was 30 fps on console?
I agree and disagree. So yes you're right. But you may be wrong. LOL Scam citizen allows a lot of things that Starfield does not. I wont poo poo the game because I am in day 1. I just think its shameful that NMS and SC allow you to fly anywhere and land your ship while it is reported that Starfield does not. So missing that sort of graphic heavy and cpu intense feature it better look better.
Totally valid points.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
I'm no expert, that is for sure. But really? A first party game is too taxing for the reasonable expectations of people who own the flagship hardware? Really?

Perhaps I'm crazy. Just can't understand how it's possible. First party. Flagship console. But better off playing on a PC. Way too weird.
I don't think it matters much if it is first or 3rd party, a taxing game is a taxing game. It's a matter of priorities in game design. Bethesda is not known for making the most performant games, but their games are technically impressive in terms of the world.
 

NickFire

Member
Pc should always be the best place to play of you have the hardware. Ain't no changing that here. Did you have this mentality every generation that first party ip was 30 fps on console?
Yes, everyone knows PC can push consoles around. But first party games should be focused on the consoles first and foremost IMO.

No clue what you are asking in last sentence.
 

Kvally

Member
He also recently said this game running at 30fps was not a hardware issue
Well, yeah that's PR for sure. I mean, that would be like saying the game can't run at 240fps, not because it's a hardware issue, but a creative choice. PC doesn't run games at 240fps because it's a hardware issue. That would mean it would never be a creative issue, but always a hardware issue.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
They show it in the video if you want to watch it?
I know what a maxed out Star Citizen looks like, and I know how massive the game is with colonies, cities, ship customizations, outposts, weaponry, planetary travel, etc., etc.. All will being fully persistence living multiplayer universe.

This is not the most ambitious game of all time, regardless if you're a huge fan or not. Most ambitious game to you, nothing more.
 



Sure doesn't look like people find 30 fps attractive to me.

If that's the best you can do. I wouldn't bother
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Yes, everyone knows PC can push consoles around. But first party games should be focused on the consoles first and foremost IMO.

No clue what you are asking in last sentence.

What Todd and Phil have said...is the game could absolutely be 60fps on console....but then it wouldn't be this game.

I advise to watch the video is gives you an idea of how CPU intensive this game is.

I'll put money that even some high end cpus struggle to keep this locked at 60fps in heavily cpu intensive scenes at launch.

Time will tell.
 

darrylgorn

Member
So now a resolution of only 1296p and 30 frames stable? It's acceptable and it's fine on next gen consoles...OK, good to know for the future.

I have a feeling the DF analysis after the game releases will reveal moments where it goes sub 30. The question will be how prevalent that will be.

I think the frame rate experience will be like Witcher 3 when it first launched on consoles.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
You are welcome to your opinion, but I think that is why. They are trying to create a "high-fidelity" universe with object persistence and physics just like in their previous open world games and it's too taxing for the CPU in these consoles to run at 16ms. 30fps is a must to maintain consistency not only in their world simulation but also frame rate. Visually they aren't doing anything amazing, it's all because of their world simulation systems.
This is not about opinions... it is just facts. Object persistence doesn't mean your CPU is doing more work.. that's just not how it works. It does however mean you end up with larger save files than a game that doesn't have it. For reference, the average game has a save file size of around 2MB or less. Skyrim can have save files as big as 40MB... and in some cases even as big as 100MB+.

There are lots of reasons this game can be legitimate CPU limited, especially including the overhead they have to allow for the kinda systems they are hugging... but object persistence...is not one of them. Now taking 500 sandwiches that hs no business being in one place and (assuming they have physics systems associated to the object) pushing them all over the place? Now that's a different matter.
He can be a tool sometimes. He was doing that with avatar the other day.





OMG, no proper reflections under the belly of a deer.... SOMEONE CALL THE POLICE!

I sincerely, really dislike that guy.

Gives me those, PC geeks with bad breath that thinks he knows everything and is unknowingly a shameless childish troll vibes. You know, that guy that when he's sitting next to you while you guys playing something keep talking about how oh look that shadow is this or that, or those reflections are this or that, my GPU can run this at 10fps more, the rag doll physics is not rag dolling...etc.
 
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Kvally

Member
What Todd and Phil have said...is the game could absolutely be 60fps on console....but then it wouldn't be this game.

I advise to watch the video is gives you an idea of how CPU intensive this game is.
That's the problem, people won't watch the video. They would rather stick with their own misconceptions.

I watched the video and agree with them, this is the best looking Bethesda game. The only thing ugly is the character faces but even that is amazing compared to what they usually produce. I really cannot wait already preordered on Steam.

Game looks awesome, but yeah...some of the characters are PS3 characters.

76xlooD.png
 

thief183

Member
I can't cope with the fact that even in this forum, with a lot of enthusiastic ppl about games, most of the users can't realise that what the creation engine does is never been done by engine else. Every single object will stay in the same spot where you left it, a table, the ground, someone else head, every single item has data stored and this data need to be streamed to the cpu and get placed every time you get closer to a location.

This type of behaviour is really, really taxing and takes away a lot of power from the cpu (not the gpu). It is also the major strong point of Bethesda rpgs.

Now imagine doing that for alla that space, I can see the save games become huge and the performance tank over time. Maybe you will manage a 60 fps the first 20 hours, but then it is going to be hard and no resolution will save it.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
What Todd and Phil have said...is the game could absolutely be 60fps on console....but then it wouldn't be this game.

I advise to watch the video is gives you an idea of how CPU intensive this game is.

I'll put money that even some high end cpus struggle to keep this locked at 60fps in heavily cpu intensive scenes at launch.

Time will tell.
This is just semantics to me. I don't know what the issues, or why the need for what for lack of a better description, justs seems like damage control. The game is locked to 30fps. That is all well and good. Not the end of the world as long as its stable and runs well. The CPU in the XS consoles simply cannot handle it running at a higher fps reliably.

But this talk about how the game could be 60fps but wouldn't be this game.....isnt that the most pretentious gaslighting bullshit out there... if it won't be this game if its 60fps? Then doesn't that just simply mean this game CANNOT be 60fps? Asassuchis locked to 30fps? Doesn't that mean the hardware is not able to allow them to make THIS game on these consoles run at 30fps? Is that not the case with very single game and every single devs working to hit performance targets?

It's like saying... I didn't lose the race I was just the last to finish.
 

GymWolf

Member
This is not true... the game may be taxing on the CPU, but that is not the reason why.
Then what it is?

Because i didn't saw any incredible destruction or physics or 500 npcs on screen at the same time or super advanced ia to justify how heavy the game is cpu wise.

Zero gravity shooting is not new, i think even killzone 4 had a section with zero gravity.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
If its 1296p then it can't just be a CPU bottleneck.

It's probably a mixture of both CPU and GPU being the limitation on consoles dependant on the scenario in game at any given time.
It's definitely both. I would assume the lighting, shadow maps and atmospheric fog effects are a GPU fillrate tax as well as all the simulations for the CPU.
 
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Tripolygon

Banned
This is not about opinions... it is just facts. Object persistence doesn't mean your CPU is doing more work.. that's just not how it works. It does however mean you end up with larger save files than a game that doesn't have it. For reference, the average game has a save file size of around 2MB or less. Skyrim can have save files as big as 40MB... and in some cases even as big as 100MB+.
You are saying a lot of nothing, what you are talking about is saves. I am talking about tracking the location of every item in the world with physics applied to all of them. The more objects that are being tracked and updated in the game world, the more CPU resources are required to keep track of them. This is true for large open world games and many objects that need to be tracked and updated at once. In this case they are building a universe type system across multiple planetary systems. That is why most games do not even attempt to do that, they just let things disappear or initialize back to their default baked state.

Again, you are welcome to your opinion.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Then what it is?

Because i didn't saw any incredible destruction or physics or 500 npcs on screen at the same time or super advanced ia to justify how heavy the game is cpu wise.

Zero gravity shooting is not new, i think even killzone 4 had a section with zero gravity.
Simple... an optimized game isn't designed based on what you're seeing... it's designed based on what you might see.

The reason they have to lock that game to 30fps... is that if they let it run at 60fps... you could end up having ridiculously inconsistent framerates just by using your jump pack and taking in more of the environment than you would have otherwise seen when on the ground. Or going into a city that has over 100 active NPCs or even worse, over 400 moving objects. How quickly can you stream assets in when you are trying to create the impression of no loading screens? How much data is tracked per objection the screen?....etc.
 
Every single object will stay in the same spot where you left it, a table, the ground, someone else head, every single item has data stored and this data need to be streamed to the cpu and get placed every time you get closer to a location.
Did I miss this being said in the direct? Not saying it's not true but I didn't know this
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
You are saying a lot of nothing, what you are talking about is saves. I am talking about tracking the location of every item in the world with physics applied to all of them. The more objects that are being tracked and updated in the game world, the more CPU resources are required to keep track of them. This is true for large open world games and many objects that need to be tracked and updated at once. In this case they are building a universe type system across multiple planetary systems. That is why most games do not even attempt to do that, they just let things disappear or initialize back to their default baked state.

Again, you are welcome to your opinion.
sigh... I tried I guess.

Tracking and updating objects.. is not a frame-by-frame thing. If you don't understand that then I don't know what to te you. ik this is such basic shit that I don't even know where to start.

Anyways... sorry, forget I said anything.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
This is just semantics to me. I don't know what the issues, or why the need for what for lack of a better description, justs seems like damage control. The game is locked to 30fps. That is all well and good. Not the end of the world as long as its stable and runs well. The CPU in the XS consoles simply cannot handle it running at a higher fps reliably.

But this talk about how the game could be 60fps but wouldn't be this game.....isnt that the most pretentious gaslighting bullshit out there... if it won't be this game if its 60fps? Then doesn't that just simply mean this game CANNOT be 60fps? Asassuchis locked to 30fps? Doesn't that mean the hardware is not able to allow them to make THIS game on these consoles run at 30fps? Is that not the case with very single game and every single devs working to hit performance targets?

It's like saying... I didn't lose the race I was just the last to finish.

I need to better understand what gaslighting is because I don't think I have a real grasp of it. I meant 60fps on console.

Of course a console APU isn't going to be able to match a high end pc with a 16 core beast of a cpu and a discreet graphics card. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Every single generation these games have been 30fps on console...so im confused at whats being discussed here.

are you angry with bethesdas choices for this game or that the series x isnt powerful enough to run it at 60?

Im not being arsey in anyway im just teying to understand what and where the complaints are being directed?

So, let's say this launches and an 11900k or 5800x struggles to keep it locked at 60fps in city's with similar settings to console. What is the flaw there? Are we angry then? Or do we start dialing back settings and resolution. Increasing pop in...dropping npc counts and draw distance to where it looks lesser than console on those affects?

That's what I feel like Todd is trying to say in that it was a design choice for how they want this game to look on console...it has to be 30fps.

To be clear. I want to play it at 60fps and above do That's why I have the hardware I have but I will be playing on the xbox store and will on occasion play on my rog ally if it can run it and my series x when in bed. There I will just have to put up with 30fps. I just hope it's consistent.

Hopefully they add a vrr option for us that have it.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
I don't remember Plague Tale getting sh8t on or indeed Flight Sim.
It did, but got even more just because Gotham Knights came around the same time and people panicked around 30 fps becoming standard again for next gen only games.

Actually, that specific game is the reason why I rather upgraded my PC GPU instead of moving to consoles. I got a nice deal for a similar GPU (well, a little more powerful one) for $400 right after the crypto fiasco ended so couldn't pass on it. A Plague Tale Requiem finally got a 60 fps patch on consoles but compromises are several more than on my PC, where I played it on High 1440p at around 60-70 fps.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
So now a resolution of only 1296p and 30 frames stable? It's acceptable and it's fine on next gen consoles...OK, good to know for the future.

It doesn't even appear to be a stable 30fps, at least not yet as of gameplay build. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because I do acknowledge the massive scale and ambition of this game, but you have to do a better job of explaining how these integrated systems that are supposedly taxing the CPU enhance the current gen gameplay so much to the point where it is worth sacrificing sizeable fluidity/performance. Keeping inventory of a bunch of sandwiches ain't it.

P.S. 3rd person option significantly minimizes negatives of 30fps which is great.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Did I miss this being said in the direct? Not saying it's not true but I didn't know this
This is how it's always been with the engine they use. Which is why their save file size grows massive in time depending on what you are doing in that regards. Also why there is a higher change of bugs or glitches happening and/or memory leaks.

I would hope that doesn't change for this, it's been one of the main things that people are fond of their games over.
 

MarkMe2525

Banned
Could be another light source on the other side. Like how it gonna be with a planet with two suns? Wonder if they have that
The majority of star systems are binary so the odds are if you are on a random planet, there will be more than one sun. All Stars are formed with partners, and the only time you end up with a singular star system (like ours) is when one star is ejected due to gravitational influence of other stellar bodies.

Edit: The reason behind this is due to the nature of how stars are formed. When large amounts of dense gas collapse in on itself, it is almost impossible for only a singular star to be produced.
 
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This is how it's always been with the engine they use. Which is why their save file size grows massive in time depending on what you are doing in that regards. Also why there is a higher change of bugs or glitches happening and/or memory leaks.

I would hope that doesn't change for this, it's been one of the main things that people are fond of their games over.
Yeah good point. I guess it was always a feature I never really thought about. I can take this level of depth at 30 fps. But man in these last few years I really do enjoy my 60 and 120fps modes.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
I need to better understand what gaslighting is because I don't think I have a real grasp of it.

Of course a console APU isn't going to be able to match a high end pc with a 16 core beast of a cpu and a discreet graphics card. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Every single generation these games have been 30fps on console...so im confused at whats being discussed here.

are you angry with bethesdas choices for this game or that the series x isnt powerful enough to run it at 60?

Im not being arsey in anyway im just teying to understand what and where the complaints are being directed?

So, let's say this launches and an 11900k or 5800x struggles to keep it locked at 60fps in city's with similar settings to console. What is the flaw there? Are we angry then? Or do we start dialing back settings and resolution. Increasing pop in...dropping npc counts and draw distance to where it looks lesser than console on those affects?

That's what I feel like Todd is trying to say in that it was a design choice for how they want this game to look on console...it has to be 30fps.

To be clear. I want to play it at 60fps and above do That's why I have the hardware I have but I will be playing on the xbox store and will on occasion play on my rog ally if it can run it and my series x when in bed. There I will just have to put up with 30fps. I just hope it's consistent.

Hopefully they add a vrr option for us that have it.
Not angry at the game at a. or for making this 30fps.

If you had followed my take on this particular thing from that other Phil Spencer thread then you would understand.
What I don't like is that they are gaslighting by saying... `this game could be 60fps but then it won't be this game`. or Phil saying `locking to 30fps was a creative choice not a hardware choice`... well duh.. of course it was a creative choice dictated by the hardware they were working on.

I am not saying that they should make this 60fps... or expect them to. Just have an issue when people say some stupid shit as if the rest of us is stupid.

If this game is running at anything on the XSX vs whatever it is running on the XSS... the only reason you cannot double the framerate on the XSX... is if you are CPU limited to begin with. Being CPU-limited levels the playing feild between the two consoles. And I said as much in that thread where Phil was saying that nonsense about creative choices.
 

MarkMe2525

Banned
You would see the light source radiate and the shadows would then create a prism effect. Could be a bug, or not as accurate as Todd is trying to sell.
If their star system simulation is accurate, The majority of star systems should consist of 2 or 3 stars, mostly 2 (as 3 is unstable). I would imagine it's rather difficult to simulate RTGI on a planet with 2 suns, so they probably fall back to one main source of light. Of course none of us have played the game yet so we will see.
 
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