ethomaz
Banned
I never played Halo 5... I can't compare but Halo didn't run everything at 60fps too... there are parts of game logic running at 30fps from what I hear.
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Digital Foundry: Why Can't Destiny 2 Run at 60fps on PS4 Pro?
- Thread starter Jonboy
- Start date
VincentMatts
Member
You didnt play it but you know? It sure did run everything at 60. Halo 5 used a dynamic scaling technique so resolution would vary depending on what was happening on screen in order to keep the 60fps throughout.
This shit is doable, bungie just dont wanna do it.
grfunkulus
Banned
Yeah, and that shit was fugly at times...
NullPointer
Member
True. It came at a cost, including stuttery low framerates on distant animations.
DealWithIt
Member
So, the game is CPU bound. What's the most comparable Intel processor to the Pro's?
ethomaz
Banned
The difference is...
You open Killzone and choose to play PVE or PVP for hours.
You open Destiny and change between PVP or PVE each few minute.
How do you adapt to a gameplay you need to change between 30fps to 60fps all the time... it is already weird when I played Destiny after Bloodborne that I need several minutes to adapt to Destiny solid framerate (it feels like you are playing a game in fast forward immediately after Bloodborne... it get normal while you play).
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Yea, the excuses are getting ridiculous. I have no doubt that if Bungie wanted they couldn't get 4v4 crucible running at 60fps. It's probably not a priority for them or part of their design decision. I have no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is using lack of CPU power as an excuse. We have multiple examples of other shooters on consoles achieving 60fps with more impressive visuals and stuff going on screen in competitive modes.
ethomaz
Banned
It did not run everything at 60fps... sorry... I just checked online.
I can't comment how it works because I did not play it but even in GAF people complained.
NullPointer
Member
Do you really?
Anecdotally I've only seen players stick to an activity for a while (running patrols, running strikes, doing dailies, running PVP or one of the PvE arenas) before moving on, not jumping between several every few minutes. I guess some people play that way but I'd be surprised if that's the majority.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Nope. That's not at all how I played it. Or how my 4 friends played it.
VincentMatts
Member
True but keep in mind this is an xbox one. Not a Scorpio or a pro. Bungies argument is that the Pro cpu cant handle it...i dont buy it.
Dude, the game runs everything at 60. Its why they cut split screen, cause it couldnt handle it. Your site is wrong.
Ive been playing the game to this day since the day it came out. Other than some user made forge maps at times, everything is 60fps. Everything.
ethomaz
Banned
Yes.
I play PVP while somebody send a invite... play the strike... back to PVP.
The opposite happens too... playing strikes I got Obote for PVP... play one match and back to strikes.
Happens all the time... there are quests that make you do PVP and PVE one after other... I do dailies in sequence (PVP, PVE).
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I play Killzone and Uncharted to this day and I'm fine with jumping between different framerates. It's not a decision for Bungie to make for me. Give me the option to decide whether I'm okay with jumping between framerates. I'm a PC gamer as well as a console gamer and I jump between running games at 60fps and 30fps all the time when I play multiplatform versions of my games. Also, there's no way for you to predict how people choose to spend their time in PVP and PVE sessions. There are times I logged into Destiny and played nothing but PVP and there are times I logged in and did nothing but PVE. It's no different from how I play Killzone or Uncharted.
NullPointer
Member
OK, I can see that. My experience has been more PvE focused with Destiny. If I was primarily running PvP I could see doing the same thing you're describing here.
jizzlobber
Member
Apart from some stuttery forge maps I can't remember anything less than 60fps in the year and a half of playing H5.
Got a link for us?
Absolutely fucking not. I've avoided crucible like the plague since a month into vanilla Destiny. It's up there with the worst MPs among big-name games. It might be better in D2 with all the changes, but it's certainly not now. Bungie has data I dont, clearly, but I can't imagine the average players spends equal amounts of time in both.
Halo 5 plays some background or distant animations at less than 60fps. It's extremely noticible, especially at first. I got used to it though and don't mind really.
SpiceMelange
Member
SocksAndShoes
Banned
VincentMatts
Member
Did you read it?
Frame-rate: Without a doubt, the defining technical feature of Halo 5 is its frame-rate. Delivering a stable 60 frames per second across the board, Halo 5 feels marvellous to play. During normal gameplay, only the occasional duplicate frames manifesting at checkpoints have any impact on fluidity. The only question mark hanging over the game is the upcoming Forge mode - which allows users to craft map variants from a huge selection of objects. This feature has yet to be released and, as a result, it's impossible to say how performance will look here. In previous Halo games, no other mode could drop the frame-rate quite like Forge so we're eager to see how it turns out in Halo 5
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
The game renders at a solid 60fps dude, even says so in your link. Having enemy animations run at 30fps isn't the same thing as having the whole game rendered at 30fps.
ethomaz
Banned
Enemies animations are being rendered at 30fps.
So it is not full 60fps like I said.
ethomaz
Banned
Did you read it?
Read more.
There are a Bungie shared graphic with player statistics and Crucible seems to avg. similar to others modes.
I will try to find but Crucible is pretty active.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Literally the last sentence of what you just posted. Come on man. This is desperation.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
That's not the same thing dude. Game is still rendered at a solid 60fps.
Enemy animation framerate doesn't factor into the overall performance of the game, game is still a 60fps experience.
VincentMatts
Member
lol big time. Reaching hardcore.
SpiceMelange
Member
I guess Doom 1 doesn't run at 1000fps on my computer, it actually runs at 5 fps, because thats how many frames monsters animate in a second. Lmao are you serious.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
😂 Yea, this is some hilarious reaching.
ethomaz
Banned
That is where you use CPU, no?
The whole discussion wasn't about CPU holding 60fps? Halo 5 do 30fps things to free up the CPU.
So the animation of monsters are using less CPU that it could if 60fps.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Also halo 5 sucks at any framerate. I'd rather watch a destiny slide show then play that shit again.
VincentMatts
Member
Totally missing the point. Point is, H5 warzone did PvPvE with 24 players online at a solid 60fps. And it did it with that old ass hardware thats even weaker than a base ps4.
Bungie is saying they cant do something similar, on a ps4 pro. Yeah ok.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
C'mon bro, this is some terrible reaching. Halo 5 is a 60fps game, no way around it.
I don't think there is one. Even bottom tier i3s from years ago trash the CPUs in the modern consoles.
Maybe some old fx amd bulldozer being downclocked might be equivalent, but basically every intel desktop CPU since sandy bridge (maybe before as well) thrashes the jaguar cores in the modern consoles.
For comparisons sake, what I think a lot of console players seem to not get is in PC performance threads most people when they are bitching about performance are doing so because they can't hit 60 fps, not because they're getting console level performance with 30 and dips. PC CPUs are just /that/ far ahead.
SpiceMelange
Member
citation needed, but even then that changes nothing. Halo 5 renders at 60 and that's the end of the story no matter how you try to twist it.
ethomaz
Banned
So dropping enemies animation to 30fps is not helping to free up the CPU?
Twist? The issue in Destiny with reaching 60fps is CPU... Halo 5 do tricks to decrease framerate for enemies animation to free up the CPU... it pretty clear the same subject.
It is clear Destiny can run at 60fps if you look only to the GPU... but what the game is doing in CPU side?
SocksAndShoes
Banned
SmartWaffles
Member
You are heavily exaggerating how complicated Destiny's game world is. Its scale is rather small by open world/open exploration standard. A LOT of games do tons of things you describe in the background while doing 60fps.
Also in patrols the map is heavily instanced, it does not calculate everything on the map at once, only the part you are active in, and other fireteam member's activities are only synced to you with results, it is decided by Bungie's "Activity Host" system where a barebones script machine host an activity for a player and then constantly host migrate between players (source: stated by Bungie in a post Destiny 2 reveal interview, I think it is glixel). No sane network architect is going to calculate everything on the map at once even if the player is not interacting with it, especially with P2P based system that does a lot of workload locally on the client. Again, an issue that could easily be fixed by offloading those calculations to dedicated servers which Bungie does not even bother to care.
TL;DR: your argument that "Destiny does a lot of shit in the background so they are very CPU limited for 60fps" is shaky at best, and could be circulated by using dedicated servers.
I'd be curious to see that. There's a lot of ways to present playtime data that doesn't say much though.
I don't doubt crucible is still packed at all. Lots of people love it. I just have lots of issues with it. 60fps is only one of them, but it's definitely one.
SpiceMelange
Member
I love how you moved from Halo 5 is not a 60fps game to decreasing animations frees up cpu ressources (still no citation on that).
nogoodnamesleft
Banned
We will be on PS6 and Xbox whatever with better CPUs and bungie will still be making 30fps console shooters.
ethomaz
Banned
There is no move... while the graphics are being rendered at 60fps the game logic for enemies animation are being done in 30fps.
Even the Scorpio leaked doc talks about that... cutting game logic to 30fps to free up CPU to archive 60fps in graphics.
The discussion was since beginning about what Destiny do in background on CPU... and the give give the example of Halo 5 that I can't compared (because I don't know how warzone works) plus it runs enemies animation (at time I said it does things at 30fps) at 30fps.
Tons of 60fps games run logic at a lower rate and the animations slowing down at a distance is pretty common in 30 and 60fps titles. Halo 5 was just much closer than most so it's more noticeable.
ethomaz
Banned
That is fine and I did not criticized that... I said it didn't run everything at 60fps and some guys falsely tried to say I was wrong or that I was moving the discussion lol
We can wait the PC release with tons of tests showing how extensive is the use of CPU by Destiny 2... so most guys here will have their amasser.
NullPointer
Member
I think its fair to bust Halo 5's balls for having some content that's so noticeably not running at 60fps. You still get the responsiveness, but the fluidity breaks down after a short enough distance that its jarring.
If it was doing sleight of hand to run things at a lower framerate without being noticed than sure, that's solid 60fps. Once you clearly notice it though its weird to say a flat statement like "the game runs at 60fps".
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap... I understand your point and maybe my point is really wrong after all and the CPU is not holding the framerate (Bungie lied).
But we can have the answer with the PC benchmarks soon... there will be a lot of CPU usage graphs for comparison.
SmartWaffles
Member
Not saying the game is not CPU limited since the CPU is factually weak, but not for the reasons you said. And again, it is an issue that can be circulated by other means, for example dedicated servers. What is more puzzling is that Bungie, a studio that is clearly capable of delivering great gameplay mechanics and experiences, constantly decides against its gameplay design prowess.
PC CPU benchmark also might not be indicative of its CPU overhead on consoles since 1) you have to compare it on a similar CPU configuration to the Jaguar, which is nigh impossible to find on the market, hell even a $60 Pentium G4560 stomps those Jaguar cores; 2) good PC port utilize hardware resources well enough that it might look like the CPU is being stressed, while in reality it is just good utilization, especially in high framerate scenarios.