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Doctor Who Series 2011 |OT| Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Stuff

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I

isny

napkin dispenser
That photo, I swear she's staring into my soul.
(I'd let her have it too...if only she'd ask)
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I'm just so done with Amy Pond at this point. She definitely wore out her welcome, though I think in the long run Rory and her will be exceptionally memorable for me. It's just time for her to go.
 
S

StealthGoblin

Banned
godelsmetric said:
is it
the 60s dalek he just tweeted?

he seems to have deleted/changed the tweet...
Click to expand...

I saw the
60's Dalek
. Looks nice.

I really do hope this new companion is from the 60s. Would be awesome to have a companion from the same year as the show began present for the 50th anniversary year.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Galvanise_ said:
I saw the
60's Dalek
. Looks nice.

I really do hope this new companion is from the 60s. Would be awesome to have a companion from the same year as the show began present for the 50th anniversary year.
Click to expand...

That would be really cool, a companion from 1963 :D

Also
the 60s Dalek would be awesome if there was some kind of hat-tipping retrospective

[edit]I just noticed that they've
got that Dalek wrong if it's supposed to be a 1960s Dalek...the first Daleks didn't have the vertical slats on them: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111226141846/tardis/images/8/8b/Meets_the_daleks.jpg
 
B

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
So I was watching an extremely sarcastic "Top 10 Reasons Rose is the Best Companion Ever" video (April Fool's and all that) and I'm reminded how much I wanted to kill Rose Tyler.
But I see this same anger directed at River. Uhh... why? Other than a couple scenes that were more annoying than rage-inducing, how is she the same level as Rose? Granted that finale didn't help either... but we get less River screen time than we did with Rose (who was in every episode). Plus, Rose's list of stupid moments is far longer.

River said the TARDIS sound is the parking brake, made a Dalek beg for mercy, and nearly destroyed the universe in the Season 6 finale because she wouldn't listen to the Doctor.
Rose disappeared for a year and never apologized to her mother or Mickey for it, got angry at Mickey because he had the audacity to get a new girlfriend when she disappeared, got angry at Martha for taking a spot on that UNIT conference and whined that "she was first" (oh hi Susan), refused to help a man running from an alien because he tried to seduce her mother, acted like a total bitch to Saran Jane Smith because she once traveled with the Doctor, and I'm sure there's more.

*shrugs* I just don't get it.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
BatDan said:
So I was watching an extremely sarcastic "Top 10 Reasons Rose is the Best Companion Ever" video (April Fool's and all that) and I'm reminded how much I wanted to kill Rose Tyler.
But I see this same anger directed at River. Uhh... why? Other than a couple scenes that were more annoying than rage-inducing, how is she the same level as Rose? Granted that finale didn't help either... but we get less River screen time than we did with Rose (who was in every episode). Plus, Rose's list of stupid moments is far longer.

River said the TARDIS sound is the parking brake, made a Dalek beg for mercy, and nearly destroyed the universe in the Season 6 finale because she wouldn't listen to the Doctor.
Rose disappeared for a year and never apologized to her mother or Mickey for it, got angry at Mickey because he had the audacity to get a new girlfriend when she disappeared, got angry at Martha for taking a spot on that UNIT conference and whined that "she was first" (oh hi Susan), refused to help a man running from an alien because he tried to seduce her mother, acted like a total bitch to Saran Jane Smith because she once traveled with the Doctor, and I'm sure there's more.

*shrugs* I just don't get it.
Click to expand...

The people who don't like River Song (not me) don't like her because they don't like how much the show focuses on her and how the plot gets crazy when she's around, and they see her as a Mary Sue.

People who don't like Rose don't like her because SHE'S A FUCKING TERRIBLE HUMAN BEING.
 
V

Ventilaator

Banned
BatDan said:
So I was watching an extremely sarcastic "Top 10 Reasons Rose is the Best Companion Ever" video (April Fool's and all that) and I'm reminded how much I wanted to kill Rose Tyler.
But I see this same anger directed at River. Uhh... why?
Click to expand...

I would pretty much ask the opposite. How can anyone seriously hate Rose after River happened?
 
G

gabbo

Member
BatDan said:
So I was watching an extremely sarcastic "Top 10 Reasons Rose is the Best Companion Ever" video (April Fool's and all that) and I'm reminded how much I wanted to kill Rose Tyler.
But I see this same anger directed at River. Uhh... why? Other than a couple scenes that were more annoying than rage-inducing, how is she the same level as Rose? Granted that finale didn't help either... but we get less River screen time than we did with Rose (who was in every episode). Plus, Rose's list of stupid moments is far longer.

River said the TARDIS sound is the parking brake, made a Dalek beg for mercy, and nearly destroyed the universe in the Season 6 finale because she wouldn't listen to the Doctor.
Rose disappeared for a year and never apologized to her mother or Mickey for it, got angry at Mickey because he had the audacity to get a new girlfriend when she disappeared, got angry at Martha for taking a spot on that UNIT conference and whined that "she was first" (oh hi Susan), refused to help a man running from an alien because he tried to seduce her mother, acted like a total bitch to Saran Jane Smith because she once traveled with the Doctor, and I'm sure there's more.

*shrugs* I just don't get it.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of it is the way River's character was handled since 'Library'. River was shown to be this important figure within the Doctor's future life, implying both marrying him and killing him and then the Melody reveal happened, but she ended up not being all that important after all and the whole 'get my daughter back' was solved because she was her parents childhood best friend.

Rose may have been a bad person, but she wasn't made up to be some kind of mysterious, important figure equal only to the Doctor either.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I figured out why I didn't like River's relationship with the Doctor! It felt one-sided. They tried to present her as a strong sassy character but also had her clearly completely infatuated with the Doctor. Which could work out if he ever seemed to be as crazy about her. But he doesn't, and so she seems like "the smart sassy character who becomes a worshipful female damsel around the protagonist"
 
I

Incendiary

Banned
gabbo said:
I think a lot of it is the way River's character was handled since 'Library'. River was shown to be this important figure within the Doctor's future life, implying both marrying him and killing him and then the Melody reveal happened, but she ended up not being all that important after all and the whole 'get my daughter back' was solved because she was her parents childhood best friend.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wish River hadn't been related to Amy & Rory at all. I think making her Amy & Rory's daughter was the worst decision Moffat made, because the result of that was they had to cram all of River's backstory into one series before Amy & Rory ceased to be the Doctor's companions.

If they had just made her a future companion of the Doctor that got close to him, her arc would have been more satisfying. Then in a later run they could have cast a "young" River Song to pal around with the Doctor for a while. The Library two-parter, the Angels two-parter, and the series 5 finale were all great with River. It was series 6, when Moffat tried to connect River to Amy & Rory, that the overall arc started falling apart.
 
C

chiQ

Member
The_Technomancer said:
I figured out why I didn't like River's relationship with the Doctor! It felt one-sided. They tried to present her as a strong sassy character but also had her clearly completely infatuated with the Doctor. Which could work out if he ever seemed to be as crazy about her. But he doesn't, and so she seems like "the smart sassy character who becomes a worshipful female damsel around the protagonist"
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if this will be reversed over time, as they move into his future and her past.
 
V

Ventilaator

Banned
When River first met Ten in the library she was all "Oh I can't tell you who I am because spoilers oh my god this is a huge secret"

So, in an alternative version of this show:

Tennant: "Who are you?"
River: "I'm the daughter of a friend of yours"
Tennant: "Which friend?"
River: "Haven't met her yet!"
Tennant: "Oh that's cool"

The end.

Instead we got "I can't tell you yet" for 2 years. If she had just said it, what the hell would have been different? The Doctor would have known that he will meet a new friend in the future? Oh my god shocking?

"But she was also the killer of the Doctor and THAT was the secret she kept"

First of all, no it wasn't. The "Who are you" reveal was "Their daughter" That was the secret. Secondly, sure, she killed the Doctor. While put in a suit that forces her to do it. Pretty much could have been anyone, River had nothing to do with anything.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
I think a lot of plot-driven h8ing of River rests on an assumption that we're done with her. Which I don't think is the case at all.

Obviously it's the opposite for people who just hate her as a character.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
I just wish we could have had younger River as a companion. Yes, I know, she's a great actress and it's different to have this love story between people who look different ages but are actually not.

But I just assumed we'd see young River, she'd go off with the Doctor, then the next time you meet her will be when she appears in Silence in the Library.
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
maharg said:
I think a lot of plot-driven h8ing of River rests on an assumption that we're done with her. Which I don't think is the case at all.

Obviously it's the opposite for people who just hate her as a character.
Click to expand...

I think it's more that they blew their load concerning the original promise of the character. Everything from here on in is much less "timey wimey" interesting. We already saw her beginning, end, and the "wedding" (it never happened, but I'm pretty sure they won't do it again anyway).
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
maharg said:
I'm pretty sure that wasn't *the* wedding. I don't think we're really done with that either.
Click to expand...

I hope not. There's a lot of stuff that's happened with the character that I felt short shifted the viewer, but I don't really dislike River Song. I would be happy if Moffo surprised me with further interesting development with her. But it would be a surprise, as it feels like she's written into a corner.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
GameplayWhore said:
I hope not. There's a lot of stuff that's happened with the character that I felt short shifted the viewer, but I don't really dislike River Song. I would be happy if Moffo surprised me with further interesting development with her. But it would be a surprise, as it feels like she's written into a corner.
Click to expand...

I've always wondered if something hidden in plain sight is that we haven't actually seen River Song's "end". She didn't die; not exactly. She still exists in the Library's computer as a fully sentient person.

And she's been left there, unremarked on, for years. It's a bit suspicious is all.

The trick is that once the Doctor finishes catching up (or back or WHATEVER) to the gnarled loop he and River share, and moves beyond it, both he and DigiRiver will be moving forward in time within the same frame of reference. Nothing at all prevents him from then returning to DigiRiver with both of them able to interact free of the restriction of conflicting directions in time.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
It seems likely to me it was the actual wedding, considering the name of the episode. Shame it was all so rushed though.
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
Andrex said:
It seems likely to me it was the actual wedding, considering the name of the episode. Shame it was all so rushed though.
Click to expand...

My specific disappointment was that the wedding happened in a universe that never existed. It's like when I married you, Andrex.


edit: But yeah, like 'harg said, it could be that they still have a more real wedding, then I get to feel a bit more comfortable with Mr. Moffat in the driver's seat.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
I brought it up a few pages ago (I think), but the more I think about it, the more I'd really love for it to happen. River "dies", Doctor Timey-Wimeys, and Amy and Rory get to raise her again like a normal kid.

It's such a happy ending. I could use a real happy ending for a companion. Rose's wasn't necessarily "happy", more satisfying when she finally ends up with the Doctor. Donna wins the lottery and gets married, but her brain can still fry. Martha's with Mickey...like, come on.
 
U

ultron87

Member
I really hope that "love of each other's lives" type relationship that has been set up for River and the Doctor didn't happen off screen during his 'running away' period only to culminate in a forced marriage in an alternate universe. Also, didn't the Doctor not tell her his name there and instead tell her about the whole decoy thing? So wouldn't that still have to happen (possibly on the fields of Tranzalor)?
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
ultron87 said:
I really hope that "love of each other's lives" type relationship that has been set up for River and the Doctor didn't happen off screen during his 'running away' period only to culminate in a forced marriage in an alternate universe. Also, didn't the Doctor not tell her his name there and instead tell her about the whole decoy thing? So wouldn't that still have to happen (possibly on the fields of Tranzalor)?
Click to expand...

This is the big thing that, to me, means it hasn't happened yet. He hasn't told her his name, and what we've been led to believe is that that's really the only thing monumental enough to justify calling marriage for the Doctor.
 
V

Ventilaator

Banned
maharg said:
This is the big thing that, to me, means it hasn't happened yet. He hasn't told her his name, and what we've been led to believe is that that's really the only thing monumental enough to justify calling marriage for the Doctor.
Click to expand...

Who honestly expects there to be a reason for the Doctor telling her his name that makes you go "Oh I guess that does make sense" instead of "...wait, why did you do that?" The much, much simpler task of getting the Doctor to marry her was achieved by... randomly making him marry her. Because of...because of reasons.

So I really couldn't be more pessimistic about the name thing. Again, this is being hyped up as River being this massively important that the Doctor had to tell her this deep dark secret, but in reality River is probably going to hold some voice-activated device that needs the Doctor's name to do whatever it is it's going to do. so the Doctor tells her his name.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
Quick said:
I brought it up a few pages ago (I think), but the more I think about it, the more I'd really love for it to happen. River "dies", Doctor Timey-Wimeys, and Amy and Rory get to raise her again like a normal kid.

It's such a happy ending. I could use a real happy ending for a companion. Rose's wasn't necessarily "happy", more satisfying when she finally ends up with the Doctor. Donna wins the lottery and gets married, but her brain can still fry. Martha's with Mickey...like, come on.
Click to expand...
Resetting her existence would be the happy ending? At least the Donna we're left with actually did the things we saw her do, even if she can't remember them.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
In regards to the spoiler, yeah, that's about the direction they had left to go. I wouldn't mind that being the reason for the Ponds to leave instead of killing one or two of them.

The_Technomancer said:
Really? One of the reasons why I'm so pissed about that finale is because I thought it was "the wedding"
Click to expand...

All the lore things that happened this season felt so fucking rushed. Reminds me of some of the poorer seasons of X-files where the entire episode was a monster-of-the-week, then you'd get a five minute epilogue at the end with the Cigarette Smoking man reading someone's file or something.

That Wedding episode should have had more about River and the Doctor instead of being a cheeky alt universe story.


maharg said:
This is the big thing that, to me, means it hasn't happened yet. He hasn't told her his name, and what we've been led to believe is that that's really the only thing monumental enough to justify calling marriage for the Doctor.
Click to expand...

That's very true. I hope that isn't ignored and we just assume he told her during their 200 years of adventures.
 
C

Clegg

Member
I wish they had asked Paul Cornell back to write another episode.

"Human Nature" and "Family of Blood" are some of the best episodes since the revival.
 
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