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[swerve]

Also Smith really does make the doctor feel old, a great feat that is hard to do and not many of the previous Doctors aclompished this.

Hmm, I don't feel this, I just feel that Smith's doctor is mean and distant. He's all quirky and aloof and franky, a bit dismissive of the people he is supposed to be fond of, and then every now and then says something like 'DON'T MESS WITH ME WHEN I'M CONFIDENT' to a bad guy to make everyone remember that he's The Doctor.

Not feeling it this season. Such a messy first-half to 6.02, and too many old ideas retreaded.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Big talking point for me is the kiss. In River's timeline, she's done it many times before, refers to him as her 'old man' etc. The Doctor in his timeline has done none of that.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Big talking point for me is the kiss. In River's timeline, she's done it many times before, refers to him as her 'old man' etc. The Doctor in his timeline has done none of that.

Not a lot to talk about. Clearly River is his lover, but for her those days are over- for the Doctor, it's just beginning. It's definitely something that will help make River a deeper character, and hopefully will make those who haven't warmed to her thus far feel more sympathetic towards her.

We're probably going to look back on River Song's overall character arc and see her emotional peak was in Silence in the Library. Which, of course, would be messed up.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Blah. That really wasn't good.

I mean, it wasn't terrible or anything, but it was almost all fluff. This whole story basically felt like it had absolutely no meat on it. It was just a bunch of running around in disjointed segments with some cool moments, but there was very little actual story. It ran pretty much the entire segment of Moffat-isms and there wasn't really anything that stood out about it. I liked most of Rory's scenes, and I thought the way the Silence were defeated was neat, but that's about it. I'm starting to really feel like Moffat is too limited a writer to be showrunner. When he was only writing one story a year it stood out much less.

Next week looks pretty cool, though.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Moffat writes the best introduction scenes ever.


WHAT THE FUCKING


THE


MY BODY WAS NOT READY

EDIT: Really, really enjoying the Kingston/Smith dynamic.


That was great. It was definitely better than last week's. I think the climax could have used some more punch, but it delivered exactly on what it promised. Very clever, very spooky.

I'm absolutely adoring how they are handling Rory's character too. He's stopped being a loser and has become a man.

 

[Gowans]

He kiss is really playing on my mind, so sad. Think I rematch of the library is in store.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Pretty sure River Song will get one last kiss, just before her trip to the library.

Sidenote: the regeneration effect has now been shown 5 times, and it is still always a genuine 'OH SHIT' moment.

I still don't get why the Master's regeneration was rainbow-coloured.

 

[celebi23]

Pretty sure River Song will get one last kiss, just before her trip to the library.



I still don't get why the Master's regeneration was rainbow-coloured.

Perhaps it's a different color for a different time lord? Like the Doctor's bloodline regeneration color is gold/yellow/orange and the Master's is just rainbow colored? Oh and WHAT THE FUCK at the ending. I was not expecting that AT ALL. I'm assuming we're going to find out exactly who the girl by the end of the season. I mean, look, before the Doctor got shot, he said to the girl that he knew who she was. Regardless,

Spoiler

pretty awesome to have another timelord in the show

.

 

[jufonuk]

ohh shit..The Doctor is Amy's Father..River the Mother..the girl at the end is Amy??

 

[isny]

Regardless, pretty awesome to have two more timelords in the show.

Unless the girl regenerates into the person who says he kills Timelords, we may have two more. (The girl being one, and the person who kills Timelords may also be one himself)

Maybe the girl is Rose and Ten's kid? =p

 

[Liquid Helium]

Enjoyed the episode a lot, but I don't understand how they went from River and Rory being in the tunnel tardis and the Doctor and Amy with the spacesuit girl to being 3 months later, all of them knowing what the silent are and being hunted.

Next episode looks like shit though.

 

[APZonerunner]

I still don't get why the Master's regeneration was rainbow-coloured.

At the time they said the effect can be slightly different for each Time Lord. They wanted a deliberately more explosive effect for The Master, and the effect is probably because he has a dangerously explosive, almost schizophrenic personality. It has also differed a few times, anyway - the effect has been slightly different between Eccleston's, the two Tennant had and the one we've seen from Smith so far. Ever so slight differences, but differences none the less.

Could be read into that hers is so similar to the Doctor's, mind... or they just forgot that particular note. That was after all something that was mentioned in Confidential/Inteviews/The Writers Tale rather than in the actual show itself.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Loved the explanation for the Nixon tapes and paranoia.

Also, re: The Lodger, The Scream painting is a painting of the silent!

Mind blown

 

[APZonerunner]

Enjoyed the episode a lot, but I don't understand how they went from River and Rory being in the tunnel tardis and the Doctor and Amy with the spacesuit girl to being 3 months later, all of them knowing what the silent are and being hunted.

Next episode looks like shit though.

Was reminded of RTD a little bit here. I think Moffat sometimes actually suffers from the same problems RTD did - shopping cart writing - but it manifests in different ways. Especially in the Confidential Inteviews, he sounded like he had things he wanted to do - have them hunted by the FBI, have them creepily writing on their own skin (how fast did that disappear?), revisit the awesome desert vistas again, having The Doctor trapped in Area 51 - and all those ideas didn't quite fit into the framework of the story OR more importantly fit into two 45 minute chunks.

What you got is an awesome, wham-bam-bang opening to the story with them being hunted, but it did feel out of place. The story could literally have resolved that cliffhanger quickly and picked up from the moment the three are back in the TARDIS without any of that stuff and it would've been almost exactly the same - other than Canton and the others becoming friends I can't even see the significance of the story being six months later. That passage of time does nothing other than move the story in step with the real-world timings of the moon landings, but the first episode could've just as easily been set six months later in the first place.

This is something RTD used to do a lot, though. Bullet points of awesome, cool things that would get crammed into the story. The funny thing is RTD used to fit them in better, I think, but then left himself no time for a real resolution, so used lots of finger-click endings to get rid of the bad guys. Moffat, here, seemed to cut from the middle.

Then again, knowing Moffat, I wouldn't be surprised if that missing cliffhanger ending and some of those six months then show up in a later episode - so that's all speculation from me and I'll reserve final judgement until the season is over!

 

[stupei]

Was reminded of RTD a little bit here. I think Moffat sometimes actually suffers from the same problems RTD did - shopping cart writing - but it manifests in different ways. Especially in the Confidential Inteviews, he sounded like he had things he wanted to do - have them hunted by the FBI, have them creepily writing on their own skin (how fast did that disappear?), revisit the awesome desert vistas again, having The Doctor trapped in Area 51 - and all those ideas didn't quite fit into the framework of the story.

It's happening quite a long way into the episode, though. When Amy is alone in the room, the only way we know she's even seen so many of them is because we see the markings on her face reflected in the window.

After that, they're all in a group and it's moving too fast for them to stop and write anything because they're now on a mission. The idea wasn't abandoned so much as everything was accelerating.

 

[isny]

BTW, did anyone else notice Matt snapping his fingers to open the TARDIS.

I'm assuming it wasn't a Silent doing it, so there goes that speculation.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

The girl is blond. Amy is a red head. Both are recessive genes I believe.

The current doctor is brown haired. Actually, thinking back, has every doctor been brown haired?

I'm guessing the rules aren't the same for time lords. But if they are, the girl could be the doctor and rivers, or Amy and rorys and Amy herself is part time lord (the doctors daughter).

 

[stupei]

The girl is blond. Amy is a red head. Both are recessive genes I believe.

The current doctor is brown haired. I'm guessing the rules aren't the same for time lowers. But if they did, the girl could be the doctor and rivers, or Amy and rorys and Amy herself is part time lord (the doctors daughter).

OMG YOU GUYS JENNY WAS BLONDE.

Spoiler

I don't think I want it to be Jenny...

Edit: This does make me wonder somewhat why she was blonde when Ten wasn't, though. Never thought about it before. ... Never really tried to make sense out of any part of that plot line before.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Guys, I don't think the physical appearance of a regenerator is going to provide any clues.

 

[APZonerunner]

OMG YOU GUYS JENNY WAS BLONDE.

Spoiler

I don't think I want it to be Jenny...

Edit: This does make me wonder somewhat why she was blonde when Ten wasn't, though. Never thought about it before. ... Never really tried to make sense out of any part of that plot line before.

They're Time Lords. They can be anything? We don't really know how DNA passes between them.

Probably not her because it's likely the case that Time Lords regenerate at the same age. The body can appear younger, but if they're a child or an adolescent they're going to regenerate in a child's body, though a 9 year old might regenerate and look 6. From the way they've talked of Childhood as a Time Lord in both new and old Who, I can't see it being possible for a 6 year old to get hurt, regenerate and come out looking like an adult.

There's an interesting issue not been addressed where it's possible female time lords have control over their appearance. Twice in the series this has been demonstrated - when the Second Doctor's regeneration is being forced by the Time Lords as punishment for his crimes, he is literally offered several different faces on a screen as a possible replacement. He rejects them all, and tiring of his rejections they force him into one he dislikes. That's the Time Lord high council though, and they presumably have more power - they were, after all, limiting regenerations when their society was intact.

Romana actually showed proper control, though. Much like someone trying on various outfits, when she regenerated in old Who she actually changed through multiple appearances during her cycle including alien ones trying to pick her new permanent look. In the end, she actually decides on a look copied from another real person, which The Doctor chastises her for.

It's worth noting her regeneration wasn't so time sensitive - she wasn't going to die if she didn't change right there and then, for example, so she had time to pick - but it's not clear if this is an ability that only female time lords have, and what the criteria are. It's happened in the actual show though, so it is canon.

 

[Tokubetsu]

I really like what they're doing/done with Rory. It definitely feels like Moffat is going to take him to some dark places.

 

[Linkified]

Actually did Moffat clear up whether Rorry is an Auton or human still?

 

[maharg]

Not a lot to talk about. Clearly River is his lover, but for her those days are over- for the Doctor, it's just beginning. It's definitely something that will help make River a deeper character, and hopefully will make those who haven't warmed to her thus far feel more sympathetic towards her.

It worked for me. I found the scene where they kiss really sad. And it not only adds depth to her character, but adds depth to all her previous appearances for me.

I agree with the theory that we're seeing the story of the Silents front to back, and that explains the abandoned tardis in the Lodger.

Also, people keep talking about The Scream being in The Lodger. Whereabouts in the episode was that? I don't remember it.

 

[isny]

Actually did Moffat clear up whether Rorry is an Auton or human still?

Nope. I think he's still an Auton, hence the baby not being his.

 

[Sober]

Enjoyed the episode a lot, but I don't understand how they went from River and Rory being in the tunnel tardis and the Doctor and Amy with the spacesuit girl to being 3 months later, all of them knowing what the silent are and being hunted.

Next episode looks like shit though.

I felt like this should've been a 3-parter instead to cram all that in. The only real thing that doesn't make sense even when you think about it is how they remembered the Silents long enough to do a pretend-we're-being-hunted-then-3-months later sort of thing.

Also, what exactly did that shot Silent in the box say that Canton recorded? It wasn't really clear.

 

[WanderingWind]

Nope. I think he's still an Auton, hence the baby not being his.

Aw, man. That's terrible. I watch Who to stay away from shit like that. Seriously?

 

[fredrancour]

Also, what exactly did that shot Silent in the box say that Canton recorded? It wasn't really clear.

"You should kill us on sight."

 

[shadyspace]

Nope. I think he's still an Auton, hence the baby not being his.

Wrong. He's human, he just has memories of his Auton's life.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Nope. I think he's still an Auton, hence the baby not being his.

What? The universe restarted, none of that stuff happened except for memories. The baby is almost definitely his. We would know if the doc and amy shagged, she was just afraid to tell rory because it might be a radiated freak.....or a timelord!

 

[WanderingWind]

It better be Rory's, goddamn it.

 

[radioheadrule83]

The bit with the

Spoiler

Eyepatch lady

reminded me of the repeated appearances of the mysterious gallifreyan old woman in Tennant's final episodes (End of Time)...

also, the woman playing her - Frances Barber... anyone reckon she might make a good Kate O Mara replacement?

I am kind of hoping that the

Spoiler

kid at the end isn't any relation to the Doctor

, and that this Amy being pregnant sub-plot is a bit of a red-herring... it'll probably be used later on in the season to get us wondering about the identity of the spaceman.

I also hope we haven't seen the last of the Silence. I'm hoping the Doctor has missed something... he seemed too dismissive of the abandoned TARDIS type ship in the Lodger, I want there to be more to it all.

 

[mightynine]

It better be Rory's, goddamn it.

It'll be Rory's, a Silent's, or Jack's.

 

[shadyspace]

It better be Rory's, goddamn it.

Having Amy try to jump the Doctor the night before her wedding was bad enough. I've pretty much hated her as a character since. But tonight's episode seemed like it made a point of cementing her feelings for Rory.

 

[WanderingWind]

Having Amy try to jump the Doctor the night before her wedding was bad enough. I've pretty much hated her as a character since.

I forced myself to ignore that part. I want to like her. But if she slutted around on Rory, I'm done.

 

[somedevil]

Watched this episode and I enjoyed though it leaves alot of questions.

Spoiler

The whole women in the eyepatch. Also, the silents got to be working for someone because they need Amy and that girl to bring the silence. It seems whoever knows about time travel because the silence don't have there own technology so they had to have access to time lord technology to build the primitive time machine.

Also, this whole event seemed not to change the doctor's fate because the lodger is the ship after they were all killed off.

 

[DrForester]

I forced myself to ignore that part. I want to like her. But if she slutted around on Rory, I'm done.

Clearly Rory is the new incarnation of The Master.

or the 13th Doctor

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Clearly Rory is the new incarnation of The Master.

You are blowing my mind

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Is the reason the Silence need us to build everything, and can't use weapons, because they have crappy nearly useless hands?

That makes sense to me. How do you do ANYTHING with hands like that.

 

[Ark]

I forced myself to ignore that part. I want to like her. But if she slutted around on Rory, I'm done.

Personally, I think Amy's character is the best companion since Rose.

I'm interested to see where they're going with this pregnancy thing. It's pretty obvious that it's going to end up being a major plot line though.

 

[maharg]

Is the reason the Silence need us to build everything, and can't use weapons, because they have crappy nearly useless hands?

That makes sense to me. How do you do ANYTHING with hands like that.

How do they even put their suits on.

 

[WanderingWind]

Personally, I think Amy's character is the best companion since Rose.

I'm interested to see where they're going with this pregnancy thing. It's pretty obvious that it's going to end up being a major plot line though.

Here's the problem with pregnancies in TV shows. Think about every show you've ever liked. Have any of them, ever, been bettered with the addition of a baby? No, and here is why.

There are only so many ways that a pregnancy plotline can be resolved.

1) The baby is born, everybody is happy, then the interesting characters become parents characters and thus, boring. This could work as an exit for the Amy and Rory characters, but I certainly can't see them running around with a baby in the TARDIS. (Here is where somebody comes in and posts pictures of this already happening in one of the series)

2) The baby is not born, leading to a weird juxtaposition of drama and light hearted comedy, a la that one comic strip that randomly had an miscarriage in it. I refuse to name it in this thread.

3) A Time Lord did it, and it's magicked away. This is always dumb.

 

[radioheadrule83]

How do they even put their suits on.

They walk into a room and tell someone to dress them, and said person lives their lives never knowing how close they came to Silence genitalia. Maybe this is why the guy in the Orphanage went crazy?

 

[somedevil]

Also, did the silence use the

Spoiler

primitive time machine

to come to earth at the beginning to influence us to some ulimate goal?

 

[Xelinis]

Anyone else think that, with everything that's happened in the past two episodes, it could be the beginning of the end for Amy as a companion?

EDIT: WanderingWind beat me to the thought.

 

[shadyspace]

Here's the problem with pregnancies in TV shows. Think about every show you've ever liked. Have any of them, ever, been bettered with the addition of a baby? No, and here is why.

There are only so many ways that a pregnancy plotline can be resolved.

1) The baby is born, everybody is happy, then the interesting characters become parents characters and thus, boring. This could work as an exit for the Amy and Rory characters, but I certainly can't see them running around with a baby in the TARDIS. (Here is where somebody comes in and posts pictures of this already happening in one of the series)

2) The baby is not born, leading to a weird juxtaposition of drama and light hearted comedy, a la that one comic strip that randomly had an miscarriage in it. I refuse to name it in this thread.

3) A Time Lord did it, and it's magicked away. This is always dumb.

Nah. They'll do like the do in comic books. Age it through some plot device to where it's not a useless prop but a viable character. They'll either have her in her late teens, early twenties or maybe preteen so they can mix-up the companion formula.

Also, isn't Karen Gillan leaving at the end of this series?

 

[maharg]

Also, did the silence use the

Spoiler

primitive time machine

to come to earth at the beginning to influence us to some ulimate goal?

If you go with the everything in reverse, I think the TARDIS in the Lodger was their *goal* not their means of arrival. It would explain needing someone who'd been in the Doctor's TARDIS (because people who've been in it are marked in some way, have some kind of time traveller radiation permanently affixed to them, etc) for their plans.

In which case, they get stopped and basically massacred (in this episode) on the eve of their success (which manifests in the prior episode, The Lodger).

As for the pregnancy plot, I hate to say this in a way, but I just plain have faith that if anyone can do this right it'll be Moffat. But I agree that babies generally ruin shows.

 

[Jinfash]

I'm still processing what I just saw, but overall it wasn't a bad episode, in fact it had great moments like the first scenes of the orphanage (onces before the Doctor came to the rescue), but I wasn't excited about it as I was for the first episode. There are definitely many loose ends left unresolved. Some random observations:

- Why did they have to fast forward and skip 3 months ahead? I was looking forward to watching the cast figure out who the Silence are. Watching one Silent behind the astronaut then running away in a flashback doesn't cut it.

- While dealing with the Silence using the moon sequence was clever, it still looked like the type of racial genocide our Doctor is known to oppose. It's not like he's incapable of reaching such a solution, but the process is usually preceded by lots of hesitation, warnings, and ultimatums. He was practically giddy and cracking jokes when he revealed his cards too, so I'm a little perplexed by his reactions.

- I hate that they had to return River back to jail at the end, as if everything has been taken care of. Rory and Amy looked excited for the next adventure too, a blank look when the Doctor said "nobody lives forever" doesn't cut it.

- Amy baby, sigh. What a clusterfuck. I, too, for a second thought that Amy was implying that the baby could be the Doctor's (I can't understand half of what that woman says) but Rory's normal reaction kind of dispelled that.

- The girl's regeneration and Amy's fluctuating pregnancy: caused by the travelling inside the TARDIS (going by Amy's concerns about the baby growing three heads or a time head) or the Silence's experimentation?

- So the girl was inside the astronaut suit, where there are 20-something alien technology attempting to sustain and preserve her life, then she escapes and is shown in the next scene dying? I'm betting that something is wrong with her, and she keeps dying and regenerating probably due to some congenital defect.

- Bringing up Nixon's "alleged" racism was a nice touch, but I don't understand why Canton kept referring to the relationship he sought as "marriage." Sounds like a very progressive idea or step to take back in 69.

Things to look forward to:

- Conclusion to what happened on the beach. Again, I really hated the fact that they had to return River. The mission is far from over dammit.

- The girl's story, obviously.

- Woman with eye-patch/visor.

Things I'm not looking forward to:

- Next week's episode. I find it hard to focus or enjoy any future episodes after being left hanging like this.

 

[ezekial45]

I'm pretty new to this show, but i have to say that it fucking rocks. I feel like such an idiot for not watching it till now. It's right up my alley.

 

[isny]

Also, isn't Karen Gillan leaving at the end of this series?

I've heard this before, and it's looking more likely now. Her leaving could be her regenerating into The Rani or something though /shrug

 

[DrForester]

Amy is a terrible companion. Amy/Rory is an awesome companion.