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Doctor Who Series 2011 |OT| Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Stuff

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Why do so many people want Amy to stay so long? I feel like by the end of this season it will have been far too long. Rose didn't even last more than two seasons and she was the anchor that bridged eccleston to Tennant for people who didn't quite get what was going on yet. I don't like the idea of having the same Doctor/Companion combo for more than two seasons. If she was there next season too she would have been there nearly as long as Tennant and that would just be wrong. Personally I'd love to see a companion change midway through the season and bring Amy/Rory back for the finale. Amy's story has been told. There's no more character development we're going to get, just new stories (the baby).
 
maharg said:
It worked for me. I found the scene where they kiss really sad. And it not only adds depth to her character, but adds depth to all her previous appearances for me.

I agree with the theory that we're seeing the story of the Silents front to back, and that explains the abandoned tardis in the Lodger.

Also, people keep talking about The Scream being in The Lodger. Whereabouts in the episode was that? I don't remember it.

Was it on the Fridge? There was quite a bit on there IIRC.
 

stupei

Member
shadyspace said:
I don't agree with this at all but ymmv of course.

infiniteloop said:
Def. start at Season 1 (2005) Episode 1 'Rose'. You'll miss out a lot of good stuff and some plot points starting at S5.

I guess part of my problem is that I really didn't enjoy "Rose." At all. But "The End of the World" was good.

It's strange. I loved Eccleston -- to the point that it took me a while to warm up to Tennant -- but overall I prefer the actual episodes in season two by far. But nothing in seasons 2 - 4 is a very good jumping off point in the way that season 5 serves as a possible fresh start for someone new to the series. Hence I recommend season 5 for people new to the series. They can catch up and start watching new stuff along with everyone else as it's airing and still have plenty of time to watch the old episodes if they end up really, really liking it. Not a lot in season 5 will spoil anything in seasons 1 - 4, so it's not a huge issue to watch it out of order. (Except that River will lack context, obviously.)
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Amir0x said:
So...
SPECULATION SPOILER
River Song is Amy's daughter?

I am confused.
I've speculated this a few pages ago, and uh, it's so far-fetched and crazy that it might end up being true.

He always finds a way to make every plot piece related. thisismoffatdude.gif
 

bengraven

Member
How awesome is it that BBC America is starting to do a lot more for Dr. Who? Between the contest (whereisthetardis), to the Insider, to the toy commercials. I guess they're happy about the American ratings from last season and last Saturday.

brucewaynegretzky said:
Why do so many people want Amy to stay so long? I feel like by the end of this season it will have been far too long. Rose didn't even last more than two seasons and she was the anchor that bridged eccleston to Tennant for people who didn't quite get what was going on yet. I don't like the idea of having the same Doctor/Companion combo for more than two seasons. If she was there next season too she would have been there nearly as long as Tennant and that would just be wrong. Personally I'd love to see a companion change midway through the season and bring Amy/Rory back for the finale. Amy's story has been told. There's no more character development we're going to get, just new stories (the baby).

That's what I was thinking. The baby will change things. Sure, they'll be back someday, whether it's in the finale (ala Rose) or just as a callback someday.
 

marrec

Banned
bengraven said:
How awesome is it that BBC America is starting to do a lot more for Dr. Who? Between the contest (whereisthetardis), to the Insider, to the toy commercials. I guess they're happy about the American ratings from last season and last Saturday.



That's what I was thinking. The baby will change things. Sure, they'll be back someday, whether it's in the finale (ala Rose) or just as a callback someday.

Can't the Baby have already been born? Can we just skip the whole Baby thing? I don't need another birth sequence in my Sci-Fi because they don't know how else to add tension with a female character.... *sigh*
 

stupei

Member
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Starting with the beginning of the relaunch is for the best. Although the first year is kind of uneven, as a whole I think RTD's Doctor Who was significantly better than Moffat's Doctor Who. The past year just hasn't been nearly as compelling.

They're both drastically different approaches, so it just depends on personal preference. It's probably also possible -- since they are so very different -- to like both equally but in different ways. I think RTD relied too much on timey wimey rule breaking, personally. Moffat cheats a little too -- everybody cheats when it comes to time travel -- but there's more of a sense of him planning far in advance or leaving us clues for solutions that actually fit in the rules already established. The resolution in The Big Bang was far beyond any season finale in 1 - 4, in my opinion. But again, that's just down to an individual's particular tastes.

brucewaynegretzky said:
Why do so many people want Amy to stay so long? I feel like by the end of this season it will have been far too long. Rose didn't even last more than two seasons and she was the anchor that bridged eccleston to Tennant for people who didn't quite get what was going on yet. I don't like the idea of having the same Doctor/Companion combo for more than two seasons. If she was there next season too she would have been there nearly as long as Tennant and that would just be wrong. Personally I'd love to see a companion change midway through the season and bring Amy/Rory back for the finale. Amy's story has been told. There's no more character development we're going to get, just new stories (the baby).

Sarah Jane Smith was around for four seasons, wasn't she?

marrec said:
Can't the Baby have already been born? Can we just skip the whole Baby thing? I don't need another birth sequence in my Sci-Fi because they don't know how else to add tension with a female character.... *sigh*

Well the beginning of the episode skipped ahead 3 months and the ending of the episode said it was 6 months later, so... yes. That might be precisely what is happening. Maybe. Or maybe not! (Edit: Strike that, reverse it.)
 
bengraven said:
How awesome is it that BBC America is starting to do a lot more for Dr. Who? Between the contest (whereisthetardis), to the Insider, to the toy commercials. I guess they're happy about the American ratings from last season and last Saturday.

I honestly found that weird as hell... though maybe it's because it's been ages since I actually saw a toy commercial.
 

Ripclawe

Banned
The more I see of River Song the more annoying it is to realize
she ends up in a computer on a dead planet
Just in case someone hasn't seen those episodes yet.
 
stupei said:
Sarah Jane Smith was around for four seasons, wasn't she?

Sorry, I'm only up on the new stuff. I just started watching in like February and watched from Eccleston forward. The plan is to watch the older stuff this summer, but I do think it's probably best to compare anything that will happen in the future to what has happened since 2005, since there seems to be a pretty clear new status quo for the series from what I can tell.

Edit: What about the
regenerating kid
as the next companion? She can probably be aged up to companion age pretty quickly.
 
stupei said:
They're both drastically different approaches, so it just depends on personal preference. It's probably also possible -- since they are so very different -- to like both equally but in different ways. I think RTD relied too much on timey wimey rule breaking, personally. Moffat cheats a little too -- everybody cheats when it comes to time travel -- but there's more of a sense of him planning far in advance or leaving us clues for solutions that actually fit in the rules already established. The resolution in The Big Bang was far beyond any season finale in 1 - 4, in my opinion. But again, that's just down to an individual's particular tastes.

Really? Moffat relying too much on the time-wimey stuff is one of my biggest issues with his era so far. I'm already sick of it and we've only had twelve stories under his watch. RTD wasn't perfect, but I feel like he wrote a much more mature version of Doctor Who. Moffat's Doctor Who has a lot of style, but not very much substance.

Sarah Jane Smith was around for four seasons, wasn't she?

She was in four seasons, but she left two stories into her fourth.
 

marrec

Banned
stupei said:
Well the beginning of the episode skipped ahead 6 months and the ending of the episode said it was 3 months later, so... yes. That might be precisely what is happening. Maybe. Or maybe not!

Yeh, they're doing that, but then she's still gunna be Preggers and it'll be handled in an annoying way. All the tropes will be there. Amy's baby will be there for the birth and it'll be born on the Tardis while the Tardis is stuck in some especially wibbly wobbly time.

Either way, I can't wait to have a little girl Time Lady companion.
 

etiolate

Banned
Amy is easily my fav companion and Amy/Rory are fun. I don't see Amy as lacking depth, but as handling things differently. Her attitude is more fitting for an adventurous atmosphere. She is still a bit of the little girl, while also managing to be more aggressive and manage an actual relationship. I am not sure what 'depth' would be here.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
The Torchwood's hate is very surprising and enlightening, considering the love it gets elsewhere on the internet. I was very serious about tracking it down during Who's break, but now I'm reconsidering. Is it ok to skip the first two seasons right to this much-praised Children of Earth, without running into any continuity problems?

Also what exactly is it, an arc, a mini-series, or a special(s)?
 
Jinfash said:
The Torchwood's hate is very surprising and enlightening, considering the love it gets elsewhere on the internet. I was very serious about tracking it down during Who's break, but now I'm reconsidering. Is it ok to skip the first two seasons right to this much-praised Children of Earth, without running into any continuity problems?

Also what exactly is it, an arc, a mini-series, or a special(s)?

I'm gonna be in a very small minority here, but I like the first two seasons of Torchwood WAY more than Children of Earth, which I didn't like much at all. But the problem with Torchwood's current setup is that if the premise is something you don't like normally that would just be 1 or 2 episodes, but now it's the whole season, so it may just be that.
 

etiolate

Banned
just watch children of the earth

edit: I couldn't enjoy what I saw of Torchwood enough to stick it out for two seasons, and just went to Children of the Earth. I was able to figure out any back story that I had missed.
 
I've have a growing suspicion about that woman with the eye patch.
Spoiled for speculation:

The Renegades and exiles who haven't died are back. I still can't tell if the copyright for a certain character has expired... If it has it would totally be within that individual's modus operandi to experiment with the creation of life. That individual's mode of transport was highly advanced and would be able to be a door for a moment as well.

Nice double swing with Canton at the end by the way! First gay companion of the 11th!

I am also a part of the crowd that liked Torchwood the series, but not the special Children of the Earth.
 
Jinfash said:
The Torchwood's hate is very surprising and enlightening, considering the love it gets elsewhere on the internet. I was very serious about tracking it down during Who's break, but now I'm reconsidering. Is it ok to skip the first two seasons right to this much-praised Children of Earth, without running into any continuity problems?

Also what exactly is it, an arc, a mini-series, or a special(s)?

Skipping the first two seasons is okay, as Children of Earth (a five episode mini-series set across five days) does stand fine on its own.

I personally think that S2 was really good, although the first year of Torchwood has a number of issues. It isn't bad, but there are some definite weak spots, and it feels at times like it is struggling to find its own identity.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
stupei said:
It's strange. I loved Eccleston -- to the point that it took me a while to warm up to Tennant -- but overall I prefer the actual episodes in season two by far. But nothing in seasons 2 - 4 is a very good jumping off point in the way that season 5 serves as a possible fresh start for someone new to the series. Hence I recommend season 5 for people new to the series. They can catch up and start watching new stuff along with everyone else as it's airing and still have plenty of time to watch the old episodes if they end up really, really liking it. Not a lot in season 5 will spoil anything in seasons 1 - 4, so it's not a huge issue to watch it out of order. (Except that River will lack context, obviously.)


That's because Eccleston had the best scene in all of new Who (yes I'm posting it again)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYy5a7lzFjY#t=3m

His farewell also shit all over Tennants.
 
Jinfash said:
The Torchwood's hate is very surprising and enlightening, considering the love it gets elsewhere on the internet. I was very serious about tracking it down during Who's break, but now I'm reconsidering. Is it ok to skip the first two seasons right to this much-praised Children of Earth, without running into any continuity problems?

Also what exactly is it, an arc, a mini-series, or a special(s)?

It is not only ok, it's basically essential. If you know Captain Jack and his background from Doctor Who, you're good.


DrForester said:
That's because Eccleston had the best scene in all of new Who (yes I'm posting it again)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYy5a7lzFjY#t=3m

His farewell also shit all over Tennants.

9th Doctor is the best Doctor. 10th was fine but I don't like him nearly as much as everyone else seems to. I found his evolution from off-putting whimsy to full on sociopathy alternately repelling and interesting, but when all was said and done it was just a tired retread of the 7th's arc.
 

marrec

Banned
Jinfash said:
The Torchwood's hate is very surprising and enlightening, considering the love it gets elsewhere on the internet. I was very serious about tracking it down during Who's break, but now I'm reconsidering. Is it ok to skip the first two seasons right to this much-praised Children of Earth, without running into any continuity problems?

Also what exactly is it, an arc, a mini-series, or a special(s)?

Anything else will lessen your enjoyment I think. I wish I could scrub S1 and S2 of Torchwood from my brain but alas.

More reasonably though, there is a reason people like Torchwood. I don't know what it is but its there, and you may be one of those people. Wouldn't hurt to give it a try, but don't say I didn't warn you.
 
Great episode. You know, I really do appreciate them coming to America. I just find it amazing that a science fiction show is given respect in the UK. Where I live in the states Who is unheard of and actually watching it is like 10 steps more nerdy than being a Star Trek fan. Also, there's Torchwood hate? Aside from everybody sleeping with everybody on that show I loved it.
 

maharg

idspispopd
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Really? Moffat relying too much on the time-wimey stuff is one of my biggest issues with his era so far. I'm already sick of it and we've only had twelve stories under his watch. RTD wasn't perfect, but I feel like he wrote a much more mature version of Doctor Who. Moffat's Doctor Who has a lot of style, but not very much substance.

I... can't even fathom this criticism. Not even a little bit.

Moffat writes stories that have a beginning, middle, and an end. He writes characters that evolve and change. And he writes a time travel show with time travel in mind. He plays with your brain and makes you question what's going on at every step, while in the end it all makes perfect sense.

RTD does none of those things. His characters are dull and flat and his stories always end in utter incomprehensible flashy nonsense. What is style over substance if not the Master dancing to a sickly sweet pop song while whiney robot spheres go around killing people, only to be defeated by a doctor supercharged by the whole world saying "I believe in fairies"?

Even Moffat's flashiest moment, the invasion of every alien race ever, had the self-deprecating turn with the Doctor's typical "I'mma save the world from YOU" before finding out he'd been had and that it was everyone else thinking they were saving the world from him.

I seriously don't get it. Moffat is a storyteller, RTD liked making things blow up.
 
GillianSeed79 said:
Great episode. You know, I really do appreciate them coming to America. I just find it amazing that a science fiction show is given respect in the UK. Where I live in the states Who is unheard of and actually watching it is like 10 steps more nerdy than being a Star Trek fan. Also, there's Torchwood hate? Aside from everybody sleeping with everybody on that show I loved it.

Poor Tosh didn't get dat Owen cock though...
 

marrec

Banned
GillianSeed79 said:
Great episode. You know, I really do appreciate them coming to America. I just find it amazing that a science fiction show is given respect in the UK. Where I live in the states Who is unheard of and actually watching it is like 10 steps more nerdy than being a Star Trek fan. Also, there's Torchwood hate? Aside from everybody sleeping with everybody on that show I loved it.

The very idea of Dr. Who being steeped in American mythology is awesome to me. And Canton is a great character who needs to come back ASAP.
 
So I just checked IMDB, they have Karen in all the episodes in Sept/Oct. The obvious place to get a new companion would be the midseason break written by Moffat, but if IMDB is right that seems unlikely. How reliable is IMDB in that sense? I've heard they're really good about masking casting changes.
 

ag-my001

Member
1) River's realization of her last/his first kiss: wow. Really good stuff.

2) Schrodinger's Baby: if it's been 6 months, shouldn't Amy be switching between quantum states of thin / pregnancy weight gain? Or was it not a real pregnancy in part one but will be soon?

3) Loved all the stuff with Nixon in this episode. Except for that very last bit, who thought there'd be so much comic relief without relying on Watergate.

4) The regeneration. The kid seems to know all about it, so that indicates she's done it before. Based on all the photos she doesn't change appearance, and we've seen that once before, leading to my completely ridiculous speculation: The little girl is the daughter of Amy and Rory's son and Jenny, the Doctor's daughter. She's sick because half of her genetic material is bouncing between existing or not, leading to the need for regeneration to keep her living until the wavefunctions collapse. The picture of Amy and the baby is simply Amy holding her grand-daughter at a young age via time-travel.
 

marrec

Banned
maharg said:
I... can't even fathom this criticism. Not even a little bit.

Moffat writes stories that have a beginning, middle, and an end. He writes characters that evolve and change. And he writes a time travel show with time travel in mind. He plays with your brain and makes you question what's going on at every step, while in the end it all makes perfect sense.

RTD does none of those things. His characters are dull and flat and his stories always end in utter incomprehensible flashy nonsense. What is style over substance if not the Master dancing to a sickly sweet pop song while whiney robot spheres go around killing people, only to be defeated by a doctor supercharged by the whole world saying "I believe in fairies"?

Even Moffat's flashiest moment, the invasion of every alien race ever, had the self-deprecating turn with the Doctor's typical "I'mma save the world from YOU" before finding out he'd been had and that it was everyone else thinking they were saving the world from him.

I seriously don't get it. Moffat is a storyteller, RTD liked making things blow up.

RTD used Time-Travel as a useful tool to tell his hero story. Moffat uses Time-Travel as a framing device, setting entire stories in a world where Time is a dimension that the characters travel in as easily as Space. RTD's time-travel was really unimaginative as well.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
So I just checked IMDB, they have Karen in all the episodes in Sept/Oct. The obvious place to get a new companion would be the midseason break written by Moffat, but if IMDB is right that seems unlikely. How reliable is IMDB in that sense? I've heard they're really good about masking casting changes.

Well, SPOILERS
Amy and Rory are in every episode this season (through 13). They'll start filming S7 in August/September so we'll know by then.)
 
ag-my001 said:
1) River's realization of her last/his first kiss: wow. Really good stuff.

I know this has been brought up before but this just doesn't make any freaking sense. The Doctor could just pop in and out in his timeline to see her. Just because this is his first should not mean that it's her last.
 
maharg said:
I... can't even fathom this criticism. Not even a little bit.

Moffat writes stories that have a beginning, middle, and an end. He writes characters that evolve and change. And he writes a time travel show with time travel in mind. He plays with your brain and makes you question what's going on at every step, while in the end it all makes perfect sense.

RTD does none of those things. His characters are dull and flat and his stories always end in utter incomprehensible flashy nonsense. What is style over substance if not the Master dancing to a sickly sweet pop song while whiney robot spheres go around killing people, only to be defeated by a doctor supercharged by the whole world saying "I believe in fairies"?

Even Moffat's flashiest moment, the invasion of every alien race ever, had the self-deprecating turn with the Doctor's typical "I'mma save the world from YOU" before finding out he'd been had and that it was everyone else thinking they were saving the world from him.

I seriously don't get it. Moffat is a storyteller, RTD liked making things blow up.

Agreed. This revisionism is weird. We've just escaped the RTD era (kudos for resurrecting the franchise a given) and people want to go back to that even a little bit? smh
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
I have to disagree on RTD not fleshing out his characters. Rose, Martha, and especially Mickey were not the same character by the end of their tenures. It was much more apparent with them than with Amy that the Doctor had been a meaningful force in their lives. The problem came with the Flanderisation that crept up whenever RTD bring those characters back, probably thinking the audience was too stupid to remember who were they.

RTD gets a ton of slack which I think is deserved, but lack of character development is an actual act of revisionism.

P.S. John Simm's Master is by far much more entertaining and menacing than anything they did with the character during the original run. He transformed him into an alien Kefka/Joker that did much more than twirl his mustache while laughing maniacally during exposition dumps.
 

isny

napkin dispenser
infiniteloop said:
Well, SPOILERS
Amy and Rory are in every episode this season (through 13). They'll start filming S7 in August/September so we'll know by then.)

As long as we get Jack back next year I'll sit through another season of Rory/Amy.

Although, a Timelord companion next year would also be pretty amazing. Mix that in with 1-2 episodes with Amy/Rory, 2-3 episodes with Jack, and 1-2 episodes with River, and it would be a good mix of companions that the series will need by then.
 
isny said:
As long as we get Jack back next year I'll sit through another season of Rory/Amy.

Although, a Timelord companion next year would also be pretty amazing. Mix that in with 1-2 episodes with Amy/Rory, 2-3 episodes with Jack, and 1-2 episodes with River, and it would be a good mix of companions that the series will need by then.

It would be really cool if at some point they took some time to connect this Doctor back to some of the stories from the past. All the other Doctors (that I've seen) have at least at some point had an opportunity to connect new and old companions, and old companions have seen what is new with the Doctor. I'd love to see Donna or her granddad come back. Hell even Martha and Mickey. Just do something to show that it's not a reboot.
 
Regulus Tera said:
P.S. John Simm's Master is by far much more entertaining and menacing than anything they did with the character during the original run. He transformed him into an alien Kefka/Joker that did much more than twirl his mustache while laughing maniacally during exposition dumps.

I simply DO NOT AGREE.
 
maharg said:
I... can't even fathom this criticism. Not even a little bit.

Moffat writes stories that have a beginning, middle, and an end. He writes characters that evolve and change. And he writes a time travel show with time travel in mind. He plays with your brain and makes you question what's going on at every step, while in the end it all makes perfect sense.

RTD does none of those things. His characters are dull and flat and his stories always end in utter incomprehensible flashy nonsense. What is style over substance if not the Master dancing to a sickly sweet pop song while whiney robot spheres go around killing people, only to be defeated by a doctor supercharged by the whole world saying "I believe in fairies"?

Even Moffat's flashiest moment, the invasion of every alien race ever, had the self-deprecating turn with the Doctor's typical "I'mma save the world from YOU" before finding out he'd been had and that it was everyone else thinking they were saving the world from him.

I seriously don't get it. Moffat is a storyteller, RTD liked making things blow up.

I can't fathom this post, actually.

Moffat's characters are my biggest criticism with his era. We've had 16 episodes in the Moffat era so far, and the only memorable supporting characters I can think of are from Chibnall's two parter last year. At a stretch I could maybe add Canton from this two parter and Father Octavian, but that's all. Most of the supporting characters we've had have been flat and lifeless. RTD gave us so many memorable characters who were full of life. Even minor characters like the nameless janitor in The End of the World felt like living, breathing people. He gave us Chantho and all the people on the train in Midnight and the citizens of Bowie Base One, and helped to flesh out the members of the ship in The Impossible Planet, the freedom fighters in Rise of the Cybermen, the family in The Fires of Pompeii and so many more.

The Last of the Time Lords has an ending that is perfectly set up throughout the entire story, with the fact that everyone's minds have been linked together by the Archangel Network set up perfectly. We even witness Martha talking about the Doctor. It's poetic justice. The very creation that the Master uses to enslave humanity is turned against him. If Moffat wrote that story, the Doctor would just travel back in time from the end of the story to the start and fix everything by telling the Toclafane to run because "I am the Doctor".

Moffat makes Doctor Who too much about time travel, which makes it all feel the same. Doctor Who survived for most of its existence with the time travel kept largely as the means of transportation, rather than what it was about. Yes, you had stories like The Space Museum and Day of the Daleks that put time travel and paradoxes as a central part of the story, but they were certainly not the norm, and they worked better because of that. When every other episode has time wimey stuff going on, it loses all meaning.

Moffat has also sanitized the show far too much. In The Empty Child, "everybody lives" was an amazing moment because it was so joyous and triumphant, and it subverted our expectations of what Doctor Who was. There were very few Doctor Who stories where everybody lives. "Everybody dies" was a far more expected out come than that. But now, Moffat has turned it into the status quo. He seems allergic to the idea of anyone dying. Instead, the Doctor always shows up and makes everything perfect. He also loves the idea of the Doctor "winning" by relying on his reputation and telling his enemies to run from him, and putting in precocious kids who repeat statements a lot. Moffat can be a brilliant writer when he brings his A game (The Empty Child and Silence in the Library rank among my all-time favorites), but now it seems like everything he writes feels same-y.

With Moffat, it's always "everybody lives and the Doctor saves the day". Davies had humanity evolving to the point where they sat around and watched reality shows where the contestants all died and then had the Daleks show up and wipe out 60% of the earth's population. He had the last survivors of the universe discover there was nothing left for them and travel back in time to wipe out their ancestors. He used Midnight to show the baser elements of humanity once all of their security was stripped away and showed how ready people are to turn on one another and tear them apart. He showed England devolve into a fascist state where foreigners were carted off to work camps, and he had the Doctor become the villain. Moffat has the Doctor pop back and forth in time to stop the mustache twirling super villains.

By far my biggest problem with Moffat's Doctor Who, however, is the lack of any real social commentary. This was central to RTD's Doctor Who, and it was key for most of the show's existence. There's a reason Robert Holmes, Malcolm Hulke and David Whitaker are held up as some of the greatest writers in the show's history. They (and Davies) could write tremendously interesting stories which also had things to say about politics, society, the human condition, and so much more. With Moffat, however, what you see is what you get. There's no attempt to tell stories which are About anything. The one time that Moffat tried this (The Beast Below) we still got a "The Doctor fixes everything" ending and a story that was more interested in precocious kids and making jokes about the Doctor hooking up with the queen. Chris Chibnall, to his great credit, was the one writer who really tried to accomplish anything with his story last year. Don't even get me started on Mark Gatiss, who managed to write a story with the Dalek's in World War II and turned it into a romp which glorified Churchill.

Hell, even RTD's weaker episodes were generally about something. Boom Town is full of problems, but it manages to create a legitimate moral quandary for the Doctor and make a statement about the death penalty. The Long Game is biting in the way it deals with the news media. Partners in Crime addresses the pressure society puts on people to conform to a specific appearance and the way that companies exploit that idea.

It pains me to say this, because I was really looking forward to Moffat's take on Doctor Who when it was first announced that he was taking over the show, but I feel like it's just way too hollow. There have been moments of the past year that I really enjoyed, but it all feels lacking in any real meat on the bones.
 
DrForester said:
That's because Eccleston had the best scene in all of new Who (yes I'm posting it again)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYy5a7lzFjY#t=3m

His farewell also shit all over Tennants.

Yeah, I have to admit Eccelson was probably the reason I got into Who. For me, though, the fish and chips scene near the end of the season one reboot is why I've been a regular viewer and why Saturday nights used to be Dr. Who nights for me. PBS used to run all the old 60's and 70's episodes every Saturday in like a two-hour block. I will say I'm liking Matt Smith now. I actually didn't like him at first, but I'm so fucking happy that the melodramatic cheese has been excised from the show.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
I'm not understanding the Moffat hate either. I've seen some people say he hasn't written a good episode since The Girl in the Fireplace, but those guys were probably trolling.

As for the little girl, maybe she's one of the pre-established Time Ladies? It could happen, Series 5 had loads of classic series references.
 

S.Dedalus

Member
Goddamn, this show is amazing. I said goddamn.

So, I understand the whole "River and Doctor meeting in reverse order" thing, but I don't really understand why... I haven't seen Silence in the Library in a while, but is it ever explained why they have to meet in reverse? I mean, the Doctor has a time machine; he basically has total control over where and when he goes. River tells him he can't see or know his future because of "spoilers" and all that shit, but is it just by chance that every time they meet it's in perfect reverse order? Are they intentionally making that happen? That's what I don't get.

And seeing her realize that was their first/last kiss was really sad.

Also, LOVE LOVE LOVE Rory.

Also, would love to see what a "time head" looks like.
 

isny

napkin dispenser
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Moffat makes Doctor Who too much about time travel, which makes it all feel the same.

The doctor not being able to pilot the TARDIS correctly has been such a big theme throughout the series. Removing that really took away a lot from the series, as now all we get is the doctor taking us where he wants to go. (Which always ends up in trouble and running down corridors, as opposed to, previously, it ended up in trouble due to going to random places and after meeting and getting attached to new characters)
 
isny said:
The doctor not being able to pilot the TARDIS correctly has been such a big theme throughout the series. Removing that really took away a lot from the series, as now all we get is the doctor taking us where he wants to go. (Which always ends up in trouble and running down corridors, as opposed to, previously, it ended up in trouble due to going to random places and after meeting and getting attached to new characters)

Umm I don't think it's been removed. We saw River fixing everything he did in a really recent episode didn't we?
 
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