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[Dalek]

It definitely needs an injection of something, although I think this series is more of a problem of not being sure how to position the show and Capaldi.

I get the feeling there was some pushback on the darker and more character heavy series 8, and in retreating from that the show has got a bit lost, whereas it seemed quite sure of itself last time round. Even with the expected missteps.

The show's fallen back on gimmicks really, the sonic sunglasses, the guitar, and yes the 2-parters which have hindered the stories more than helping them. Even the cue-cards, which before was an ever present aspect of his personality and part of the stories in his relationship with Clara, just appeared for a joke and then this supposed side of him completely disappeared again.

There's nothing holding it all together unlike last time, and it's frustrating because Capaldi is so damn good at making the best of whatever he's given but he's just not being given the best to work with. He's managing to be my favourite Doctor just for being Capaldi, if that makes any sense.

Clara too should now have been this addicted to travelling, thinking she was the Doctor, and putting herself needlessly in danger character setting up her exit. Instead she's just back to being just there again, with just hints here and there, and turning evil for a story rather than any ongoing development.

Even if the finale is spectacular, the word hybrid has amazing significance, and the whole series turns out to be back to front, I can't help thinking this series would have been a lot better if it had just carried on the way series 8 was doing things.

I don't mind the glasses or the guitar-I actually like the "flavor" being added to 12-it will give me something iconic to remember him with-bow tie, cane, question marks, scarf, etc.

The problem just seems to be that it's not "fun"-again, the shows aren't bad-it's just dry.

My wife can't watch the show any more because she just misses Matt Smith so much and can't deal with Capaldi. I think Capaldi is the best actor to have the role-but it's just that his stories aren't as memorable. My favorite Capaldi stories have been Listen, Flatline and Last Christmas.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Again it's weird people are having issues as I've enjoyed this more consistently than any series since 5. Sleep No More was the only real stinker, and of course I'm confident the next three will be absolutely solid.

Clara's really grown on me, not as an outstanding character in her own right but as a consistent presence.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I don't mind the glasses or the guitar-I actually like the "flavor" being added to 12-it will give me something iconic to remember him with-bow tie, cane, question marks, scarf, etc.

The problem just seems to be that it's not "fun"-again, the shows aren't bad-it's just dry.

My wife can't watch the show any more because she just misses Matt Smith so much and can't deal with Capaldi. I think Capaldi is the best actor to have the role-but it's just that his stories aren't as memorable.

Yeah I don't mind all those things either, but they should be the icing on the cake. Instead it's felt more like it's there to distract you from the fact the cake hasn't arrived yet.

After the self-doubt, am I a good man, of the last series this should have been his series to shine. It took till Flatline to have his "I am the Doctor!" moment, this series should have been just that. Like you say, put the fun in. With Clara unknowingly going the opposite way.

Instead we got a Doctor playing guitar facing his death again, that's ... messy. The whole series, the 2 parters, this last episode especially, has been messy. And as a result quite dull with nothing to grab onto much at all.

 

[Dalek]

I do want to say that the "Zygon Inversion" scene with the Osgood Boxes and The Doctor speaking to Bonnie was absolutely superb. Fantastic dialogue and Capaldi at his best.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I do want to say that the "Zygon Inversion" scene with the Osgood Boxes and The Doctor speaking to Bonnie was absolutely superb. Fantastic dialogue and Capaldi at his best.

I agree, and the Davros scene, but it's these individual scenes that are substituting for the highs of just the stories and episodes themselves.

A great complement to Capaldi, but also a sign of a problem.

 

[Dalek]

I agree, and the Davros scene, but it's these individual scenes that are substituting for the highs of just the stories and episodes themselves.

A great complement to Capaldi, but also a sign of a problem.

I'm in agreement with the last caller.

 

[acheron_xl]

Again it's weird people are having issues as I've enjoyed this more consistently than any series since 5. Sleep No More was the only real stinker, and of course I'm confident the next three will be absolutely solid.

Clara's really grown on me, not as an outstanding character in her own right but as a consistent presence.

This is pretty much where I stand. It's been a very strong season for the most part. I also thought last season was really strong too, with the weak episodes not being particularly weak on the grand scale of things.

As for the fun thing, I think it's mostly down to editing and direction. If everything was as snappy as Time Heist in was, I don't think as many people would be complaining. But then the longer, dryer, dialog heavy scenes are pretty much 12's calling card, tone-wise, so I dunno.

 

[A-V-B]

This is pretty much where I stand. It's been a very strong season for the most part. I also thought last season was really strong too, with the weak episodes not being particularly weak on the grand scale of things.

As for the fun thing, I think it's mostly down to editing and direction. If everything was as snappy as Time Heist in was, I don't think as many people would be complaining. But then the longer, dryer, dialog heavy scenes are pretty much 12's calling card, tone-wise, so I dunno.

Time Heist wasn't fun.

Mummy on the Orient Express, now that was a blast.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Capaldi got me though last season, when I was pretty burnt out of the show from binge-watching from "Rose" through the end of the Smith era. This season is better for me, IMHO. Moffat may well be burned out, but the effect has been to tamp down some of the things I have disliked about his run.

I'm all for a new runner, but this season *has* been a step up.

 

[Chariot]

Man, Sleep No More was not one, but multiple interesting ideas combined in a horrible way. The camera perspectives, people deprived of sleep, ring-style footage virus, very good ingredients, but shoddily cooked.

 

[TheJoRu]

I'm a Moffat fan-and I think he's run out of juice sadly. It's someone else's time. The show needs a shot in the arm.

I'll agree with you if the final episodes disappoint me. Series 8 to me brought a lot of new energy to the show. It took away some of the fun factor, but there was a nerve there I really enjoyed. A bold season, that when it worked, especially in Moffat's own stories, paid off in spades.

I don't quite yet understand what they're going for here in series 9, tone-wise. I thought they were going for lighter, but they have yet to do anything remotely as light-hearted and funny as Robot of Sherwood or The Caretaker yet (and I seriously doubt they will). They aren't going particularly dark, either yet, not as much as series 8 at least. So it's a bit in a sort of limbo; neither the comedic nor the dramatic moments have really shined. Capaldi and Coleman are good, but they aren't given as good character moments as last year, and the plots haven't quite compensated for that.

I have some high hopes for these last three, though. Face The Raven looks splendid, and from new (for the show) writer as well! Last two are intriguing, haven't read synopsis for them. If these three don't reach some high heights, then yes, the show needs to be revitalized. It seems to be getting a short break anyway, maybe that will do some good.

 

[tonysidaway]

I'm a Moffat fan-and I think he's run out of juice sadly. It's someone else's time. The show needs a shot in the arm. Toby Whithouse please.

Moffat might be one of the best ever show runners Doctor Who has ever had, but suppose (for the sake of argument) that he needs to step down. At this point why restrict the choice of successor to British producers?

 

[APZonerunner]

Here's the first clip of the new Tenth Doctor/Donna stories, by the way: http://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who-listen-to-the-tenth-doctor-and-donna

Moffat might be one of the best ever show runners Doctor Who has ever had, but suppose (for the sake of argument) that he needs to step down. At this point why restrict the choice of successor to British producers?

I don't think it would/should be (Newman, after all!), but whoever it is would have to be somebody with a British TV pedigree specifically who is based out of the UK, if for no other reason then because the BBC really needs to give the right wing no more reasons to put bullets in it.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This season is absolutely a step up. It aint even a question.

 

[Slowdive]

Here's the first clip of the new Tenth Doctor/Donna stories, by the way: http://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who-listen-to-the-tenth-doctor-and-donna

Can't wait.

 

[APZonerunner]

Interestingly, the background of that clip has some new incidental music that's plainly styled after Gold's work in that era, and it sounds good! It isn't by Gold, though. I wonder how much longer he'll stick around, speaking of the show - it's been ten years now! I'd have thought he'd have grown tired of it by now.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I'm a Moffat fan-and I think he's run out of juice sadly. It's someone else's time. The show needs a shot in the arm.

I think Moffat has been one of the best things to ever happen to the show and I've been a supporter for a long time even when it was popular to hate on him, but as of this season I agree. Just not doing it for me anymore, ready for someone new to take the reigns and give it a new feel.

Peter is fantastic and I hope he sticks around for a while, I'm just not liking the direction the series are going all that much. I think

Spoiler

replacing Clara

will help some but a fresh showrunner would help even more.

 

[Kurdel]

Just wanted to chime in and say Love & Monsters is one of my favorite episodes, and I don't miss RTD.

I do miss RTD's universe, and appreciated seeing Jadoon and the Shadow Proclamation this season.

 

[hamchan]

Moffat is ok. We're still getting solid seasons even if they are lacking the truly outstanding episodes we used to get (ironically a lot of those episodes were by Moffat).

He's mishandled Clara entirely but I'm willing to see how he handles her departure to see if there's some redemption there.

 

[tonysidaway]

Actually I think the ranting about Clara, and the many posts here eagerly anticipating her screen death or departure, are the most shameful aspects of this thread. There are those who think I'm a fan. I'm not a fan while there are those who call themselves fans and yet are accepted here in the full enormity of their vile and inhuman behaviour.

Please, if you ever loved a television programme, stop. You are making every single fan of Doctor Who, who sits by and does not condemn your hateful frothing, look like a bully.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Actually I think the ranting about Clara, and the many posts here eagerly anticipating her screen death or departure, are the most shameful aspects of this thread. There are those who think I'm a fan. I'm not a fan while there are those who call themselves fans and yet are accepted here in the full enormity of their vile and inhuman behaviour.

Please, if you ever loved a television programme, stop. You are making every single fan of Doctor Who, who sits by and does not condemn your hateful frothing, look like a bully.

Only a fan would get angry about fans of a show he watches tho

 

[hamchan]

Actually I think the ranting about Clara, and the many posts here eagerly anticipating her screen death or departure, are the most shameful aspects of this thread. There are those who think I'm a fan. I'm not a fan while there are those who call themselves fans and yet are accepted here in the full enormity of their vile and inhuman behaviour.

Please, if you ever loved a television programme, stop. You are making every single fan of Doctor Who, who sits by and does not condemn your hateful frothing, look like a bully.

You're a fan. You literally fit the definition of being a fan of the show. Trying to separate yourself because you think you don't like aspects of fandom is fine but don't try to change the definition of the word. It's not like being a fan makes you automatically associated with the people you don't like.

And frankly it feels incredibly condescending and is getting to be a bit annoying how you keep making out like this thread is full of bad people that should be ashamed of themselves. I like your posts when it's about the episodes because they are eloquent and focus on the positive aspects, but when you make posts like these I don't find you very endearing.

Finally, I disagree with you on Clara. Wanting a new companion when you don't like the current one is a perfectly fine opinion to have that no one should be ashamed about. Even hoping she dies could come from a desire to see the effects on the story and character development of the Doctor. What is so wrong with that?

 

[Fuu]

Series 8 + 9 Clara is great, she's like a completely different character from 7B Clara. Gone are the days where I'd mourn Space Clara and Clary Poppins (even though Space Clara is still the best).

 

[Ozium]

Actually I think the ranting about Clara, and the many posts here eagerly anticipating her screen death or departure, are the most shameful aspects of this thread. There are those who think I'm a fan. I'm not a fan while there are those who call themselves fans and yet are accepted here in the full enormity of their vile and inhuman behaviour.

Please, if you ever loved a television programme, stop. You are making every single fan of Doctor Who, who sits by and does not condemn your hateful frothing, look like a bully.

Vile and inhuman behavior in talking about a character on a television series.

uh huh..

Clara is not real, dude, calm down

 

[Maddocks]

I love Clara, but I get why people are sick of her. I think it has something to do with her being this life changing aspect in the doctors life, she was around when he was a kid, she told the doctor he got in the wrong tardis and changed his mind in the war. She really is the impossible girl and fans of the lore and the history of the show probably don't like that they did that with her when she really didn't earn being able to do that.

But personally I liked it and didn't mind the changes like that, but like I said I love her character and welcome additions to her character and once she is gone I will be sad.

 

[Fuu]

Also, her relationship with 12 feels way more genuine than whatever was going on between her and 11. I hope her final episode is a good one, I don't know what to expect at this point.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Also, her relationship with 12 feels way more genuine than whatever was going on between her and 11. I hope her final episode is a good one, I don't know what to expect at this point.

Yeah, Jenna's chemistry with Capaldi is through the roof. Their banter has always been tops.

 

[Fuu]

Yeah, Jenna's chemistry with Capaldi is through the roof. Their banter has always been tops.

- Oh, have you brought me to a space restaurant?
- People never do that, you know?
- Do what?
- They never put the word "space" in front of something just because everything's all sort of hi-tech and future-y. It's never "space restaurant" or "space champagne" or "space"... you know..."hat". It's just "restaurant", "champagne" or "hat". Even if this was a restaurant...
- What about spacesuit?
- Pedant!

:lol

Latest episode went downhill, but I loved this part.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Actually I think the ranting about Clara, and the many posts here eagerly anticipating her screen death or departure, are the most shameful aspects of this thread. There are those who think I'm a fan. I'm not a fan while there are those who call themselves fans and yet are accepted here in the full enormity of their vile and inhuman behaviour.

Please, if you ever loved a television programme, stop. You are making every single fan of Doctor Who, who sits by and does not condemn your hateful frothing, look like a bully.

This is the most fanatical post in a while.

Not even sure what prompted it.

 

[tonysidaway]

This is the most fanatical post in a while.

Not even sure what prompted it.

Long exposure to unrestrained fannish behaviour. We now know that it's okay, even expected, to express an inexplicable dislike for a well loved character played by a popular actor, but not to remark on how vile and inhuman it is to launch unprovoked and unmerited attacks. Now we know where we are.

I stand by my comment, which is:

"Actually I think the ranting about Clara, and the many posts here eagerly anticipating her screen death or departure, are the most shameful aspects of this thread. There are those who think I'm a fan. I'm not a fan while there are those who call themselves fans and yet are accepted here in the full enormity of their vile and inhuman behaviour.

"Please, if you ever loved a television programme, stop. You are making every single fan of Doctor Who, who sits by and does not condemn your hateful frothing, look like a bully."

Seriously, is Clara's character an issue? Or are you just being a _fan_?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Long exposure to unrestrained fannish behaviour. We now know that it's okay, even expected, to express an inexplicable dislike for a well loved character played by a popular actor, but not to remark on how vile and inhuman it is to launch unprovoked and unmerited attacks. Now we know where we are.

I have no idea what or who you are referring to, the discussion has all been quite civil.

I'm either missing something, or the trees are talking to you.

 

[hamchan]

Long exposure to unrestrained fannish behaviour. We now know that it's okay, even expected, to express an inexplicable dislike for a well loved character played by a popular actor, but not to remark on how vile and inhuman it is to launch unprovoked and unmerited attacks. Now we know where we are.

Yes, it's perfectly fine to express well founded criticism on the writing of a character played by a popular actor, but not to remark on how insane it is to call people's opinions on this fictional character a vile, inhuman and unprovoked "attack".

 

[tonysidaway]

I have no idea what or who you are referring to, the discussion has all been quite civil.

No. And that's the problem. It is not civil to pepper a discussion with fannish obsessions about when a character will depart. When that becomes a prominent part of the discussion, there is a problem.

 

[tonysidaway]

Yes, it's perfectly fine to express well founded criticism on the writing of a character played by a popular actor, but not to remark on how insane it is to call people's opinions on this fictional character a vile, inhuman and unprovoked "attack".

I think where we depart is the facts.

 

[DECK'ARD]

No. And that's the problem. It is not civil to pepper a discussion with fannish obsessions about when a character will depart. When that becomes a prominent part of the discussion, there is a problem.

Eh?

It's the series she leaves in, after not leaving at Christmas. The subject is going to crop up!

 

[hamchan]

I think where we depart is the facts.

What facts? I just think it's so weird to label criticism of Clara as an "attack" or "bullying". No, fans are not being bullies because they might not like an aspect of the show and express their dislike. It's highly unusual and defensive to think so.

Just have to add that no one is attacking Jenna Coleman if that's what you think. Everyone seems to love her and puts no faults in Clara's character on her.

No. And that's the problem. It is not civil to pepper a discussion with fannish obsessions about when a character will depart. When that becomes a prominent part of the discussion, there is a problem.

The whole season arc seems to be Clara already being dead or the Doctor highly afraid of Clara leaving.

Combine that with Jenna leaving this year and of course there will be discussion about the character's departure. When and how the character is going to depart is one of the major teases the writers are doing this season too, just based on how many scenes there are each episode based on that.

Especially when they end an episode with Clara saying "I'm not going anywhere" with the Doctor giving an ominous look. Moffat clearly WANTS us to talk about her leaving.

 

[tonysidaway]

Perhaps we could turn this into a discussion on why certain fans (at least on this thread) dislike Clara. It's obviously not "It's time for her to go". The snide comments about her are, to my mind, a good example of why I would never associate with fans.

But perhaps there are people who think there is no good Clara universe, or consider the Clara universe we have to be substandard. Perhaps they have an ideal Clara in their minds who would have made the series better. Perhaps they could delineate the kind of companion who would have been a better match for Matt? And for continuity, do you think there should have been some other companion for Peter? I think these are sensible questions that could be discussed instead of this distasteful "can't wait until Clara goes" crap.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Are you in love with Clara?

 

[tonysidaway]

Are you in love with Clara?

No. Be serious. Everybody loves her. She is a huge part of the show and her departure will be a big deal.

But, returning to my point: is there a serious issue with Clara as a character?

 

[tonysidaway]

What facts? I just think it's so weird to label criticism of Clara as an "attack" or "bullying". No, fans are not being bullies because they might not like an aspect of the show and express their dislike.

Attacking a popular character played by a popular and competent actor is, actually, bullying. That's just the way it is. I'd expected to see some commenters pulling their punches, but this has turned into a blood sport. What really freaks me out is that nobody else ever says "wait a minute." It's as if we're all supposed to accept that every two pages or so somebody jumps in and says something utterly vile and we're supposed to pretend it's okay.

 

[DECK'ARD]

No. Be serious. Everybody loves her. She is a huge part of the show and her departure will be a big deal.

Well personally I like having her around, but that's all she's been doing this series. Apart from briefly turning evil and being hung upside down from a tree.

I think it's been a huge waste of her character and apart from the tiniest of hints of getting reckless they completely abandoned the whole addicted to travelling with the Doctor and wanting to be him. Which should have naturally followed last series, after finally not being bogged down by being impossible or bloody Danny.

This would have made her departure much more meaningful when it happens, and given her and Capaldi much more to do, but it's been reduced to us just poking at the episodes wondering if she's dead already.

So all in all I'm just waiting for it to happen because they've done very little to get me invested in it except see it as a big stunt. A shame really, after doing so much to fix her character last series.

 

[tonysidaway]

Well personally I like having her around, but that's all she's been doing this series. Apart from briefly turning evil and being hung upside down from a tree.

Hanging around is what companions do. I think Clara has had a longer run than most. She's moving on, and there will be others.

 

[Dryk]

I think it's been a huge waste of her character and apart from the tiniest of hints of getting reckless they completely abandoned the whole addicted to travelling with the Doctor and wanting to be him. Which should have naturally followed last series, after finally not being bogged down by being impossible or bloody Danny

All of her character development has either been mishandled, rushed or done off-screen. It's the worst.

 

[A-V-B]

I still can't really define Clara's character besides... she likes to be in a position of authority, and she likes to be in the TARDIS. Since basically all companions like being in the TARDIS a lot, let's just strike that out.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Hanging around is what companions do. I think Clara has had a longer run than most. She's moving on, and there will be others.

You wanted to know my issues with the character, I gave you them.

 

[Dryk]

I still can't really define Clara's character besides... she likes to be in a position of authority, and she likes to be in the TARDIS. Since basically all companions like being in the TARDIS a lot, let's just strike that out.

That's another problem, she fails the Plinkett Test for me because she just does whatever they need her to do. I would've preferred it if they just picked something and let it shine through more strongly. Her bravery in the face of overwhelming threats is a good one, but it works much better when she's just bluffing or otherwise is unsure of herself.

Finally, I disagree with you on Clara. Wanting a new companion when you don't like the current one is a perfectly fine opinion to have that no one should be ashamed about. Even hoping she dies could come from a desire to see the effects on the story and character development of the Doctor. What is so wrong with that?

People hoping she dies has nothing to with her character anyway. In my experience people hope for death every time a companion leaves because it's very rare and the few times it has happened it made a strong and long-lasting impact.

 

[tonysidaway]

All of her character development has either been mishandled, rushed or done off-screen. It's the worst.

This is the kind of nonsense that passes for critique.

 

[A-V-B]

That's another problem, she fails the Plinkett Test for me because she just does whatever they need her to do. I would've preferred it if they just picked something and let it shine through more strongly. Her bravery in the face of overwhelming threats is a good one

I thought about that too, but that's not a unique trait for her. There are plenty of companions who would willingly die to save The Doctor or somebody else. In fact, it would be more unique if there was a companion who would be more cowardly at the start and gradually become brave.

 

[Dryk]

I thought about that too, but that's not a unique trait for her. There are plenty of companions who would willingly die to save The Doctor or somebody else. In fact, it would be more unique if there was a companion who would be more cowardly at the start and gradually become brave.

I mean more the way she handled Half-Face Man & Odin. That's a trait I don't remember other companions displaying to her degree. They'd try to negotiate with the villains sure but Clara has a knack for quickly getting into their heads that I wish they'd focus on more.

 

[Trike]

This is the kind of nonsense that passes for critique.

really, please go on and inform us why you disagree.