Support NeoGAF

[mckmas8808]

It is a weird hill to climb that some of you guys are more interested in comparing PS5 Pro to a Series X than an actual base PS5.

What I find to be more weird, are you guys that want to pretend as if the $600 special edition Xbox Series X doesn't exist. But triple down on how IMPORTANT TEH PS5 PRO IS TO SONYZ. We all know and acknowledge that at BEST the PS5 Pro will sell 15% of all PS5s going forward. But closer to 5-10%.

So why this heavy focus on the PS5 Pros price, but not the 2TB Xbox Series X's price?

 

[Zacfoldor]

Xbox portal is too good an opportunity to force Xcloud on gamers, so it will be a PS Portal type system with little hardware in the box, and relatively cheap. A streaming machine.

The next Xbox console will be super expensive and be based on Win 12 S mode using an ARM CPU. Because it will be platform agnostic it will also not be subsidized, so I expect a high price with multiple tiers.

 

[adamsapple]

What I find to be more weird, are you guys that want to pretend as if the $600 special edition Xbox Series X doesn't exist. But triple down on how IMPORTANT TEH PS5 PRO IS TO SONYZ. We all know and acknowledge that at BEST the PS5 Pro will sell 15% of all PS5s going forward. But closer to 5-10%.

So why this heavy focus on the PS5 Pros price, but not the 2TB Xbox Series X's price?

You've thrown in multiple un-related things here. Let me try to address them.

- Who's trying to say the 2TB SX doesn't exist? Most, if not all, 'Xbox fanboys' on GAF have also said that it's a pointless thing and too expensive. It's only brought up when used as a "gotcha" to counter any criticism of the PS5 Pro's price.
- I don't know why the 5~10% total sales thing is relevant here. PS5 Pro's price has set the precedent for all standard future console releases and also the precedent that things like disk drive can be sold separately for even more.
- The 2TB LE SX is not the standard SKU, there are cheaper alternatives of that console. The PS5 Pro is the *only* SKU, there are no other versions of that console available, and the standard SKU is not even feature complete, thus requiring additional purchases to match the standard PS5 at launch.

I'll use a familiar example to illustrate so it's easier for you to understand.

The Concord Limited Edition Dual Sense is $84.99, which is $10 to $15 more expensive than the standard Dualsense. Is that the only Dualsense someone can buy? No. It just as a higher price tag for the exact same thing because of its status as a Limited Edition thing and most people, who are not specifically hunting for that LE thing, will opt to get the cheaper standard SKU instead. Now use the same logic above.

-

Besides, it's more sensible to compare PS5 Pro to a standard PS5 at launch anyway. No one compared the PS4 Pro to an Xbox One VCR, why now.

 

[mckmas8808]

You've thrown in multiple un-related things here. Let me try to address them.

- Who's trying to say the 2TB SX doesn't exist? Most, if not all, 'Xbox fanboys' on GAF have also said that it's a pointless thing and too expensive. It's only brought up when used as a "gotcha" to counter any criticism of the PS5 Pro's price.
- I don't know why the 5~10% total sales thing is relevant here. PS5 Pro's price has set the precedent for all standard future console releases and also the precedent that things like disk drive can be sold separately for even more.
- The 2TB LE SX is not the standard SKU, there are cheaper alternatives of that console. The PS5 Pro is the *only* SKU, there are no other versions of that console available, and the standard SKU is not even feature complete, thus requiring additional purchases to match the standard PS5 at launch.

I'll use a familiar example to illustrate so it's easier for you to understand.

The Concord Limited Edition Dual Sense is $84.99, which is $10 to $15 more expensive than the standard Dualsense. Is that the only Dualsense someone can buy? No. It just as a higher price tag for the exact same thing because of its status as a Limited Edition thing and most people, who are not specifically hunting for that LE thing, will opt to get the cheaper standard SKU instead. Now use the same logic above.

-

Besides, it's more sensible to compare PS5 Pro to a standard PS5 at launch anyway. No one compared the PS4 Pro to an Xbox One VCR, why now.

See to me the bolded is the real reason for the attacks on the PS5 Pro. The PS5 Pro is not the only sku. There's a PS5 sir! How have you forgotten that so quickly?

 

[GHG]

???

The regular Ally has the same chipset as X, namely 780U GPU. X has slightly faster RAM, more of it, and bigger battery.

Ah gotcha, you were referring to the Ally when you said "X".

I see the 2.8 TF version as the "regular" one (I think that retails for about $400) but it's nowhere near powerful enough to be useful in the context of this thread.

I don't see Microsoft endorsing a machine like the first version with the Z1 extreme, namely because of the pitiful battery life. So realistically you're looking at something in the mould of the Ally X at a minimum.

The good news is though that AMD have greatly increased the efficiency of their new CPU's, so what comes next from them in terms of APU's will be very interesting.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

What I find to be more weird, are you guys that want to pretend as if the $600 special edition Xbox Series X doesn't exist. But triple down on how IMPORTANT TEH PS5 PRO IS TO SONYZ. We all know and acknowledge that at BEST the PS5 Pro will sell 15% of all PS5s going forward. But closer to 5-10%.

So why this heavy focus on the PS5 Pros price, but not the 2TB Xbox Series X's price?

That 2TB Series X price is pretty stupid in fact imo its more stupid than the PS5 Pros as at least with the Pro you are getting an upgraded console.

Its still not a fair comparison unless you add the drive to the Pro

 

[adamsapple]

See to me the bolded is the real reason for the attacks on the PS5 Pro.

Using PS4 Pro as an example, this has 100% set the precedent for future console prices. You'd be naive to think otherwise.

The PS5 Pro is not the only sku. There's a PS5 sir! How have you forgotten that so quickly?

There is only one version of the PS5 Pro. There are multiple versions of SX with different price points and HDD/Drive configs.

It continues to be a moot comparison.

 

[midnightAI]

See to me the bolded is the real reason for the attacks on the PS5 Pro. The PS5 Pro is not the only sku. There's a PS5 sir! How have you forgotten that so quickly?

Exactly, there are so many that completely ignore the fact the main console is still the base PS5.

Oh, and the bolded.... There is no proof that Sony will price the PS6 like that. I even think it's dumb to think they will (Sony have acknowledged many times they made a mistake with the PS3 pricing (no, the Pro isn't comparable because it's not the main console, it's for the few that can afford it and want the additional power). And it won't happen unless suddenly 50% of the player base get a Pro.

 

[StereoVsn]

Ah gotcha, you were referring to the Ally when you said "X".

I see the 2.8 TF version as the "regular" one (I think that retails for about $400) but it's nowhere near powerful enough to be useful in the context of this thread.

I don't see Microsoft endorsing a machine like the first version with the Z1 extreme, namely because of the pitiful battery life. So realistically you're looking at something in the mould of the Ally X at a minimum.

The good news is though that AMD have greatly increased the efficiency of their new CPU's, so what comes next from them in terms of APU's will be very interesting.

Again, regular Ally has the same Z1 Extreme as Ally X. Ignore the cheaper one as nobody really buys that.

MS would have a faster, newer cheap that should be more memory efficient, whether it’s Intel or AMD. But I would say either way larger battery size will be needed.

 

[cireza]

I won't buy it though.

 

[StereoVsn]

I won't buy it though.

Personally I just want OLED Deck 2 with RDNA 4 APU toward end of next year.

 

[Jigsaah]

Sure. Their 2tb xbox series x is $600. Let's not pretend sony is the only one pushing some boundaries.

True, but that's exactly my point. Sony is just the latest salvo in price raising in this space. $600 < $700....the premise of this post is essentially asking where does this plateau?

 

[adamsapple]

I won't buy it though.

A hybrid PC with all the capabilities of an Xbox including BC support on the other hand tho ...

 

[cireza]

A hybrid PC with all the capabilities of an Xbox including BC support on the other hand tho ...

I don't think that this can exist in a price/form factor I am willing to be satisfied with.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I don't think that this can exist in a price/form factor I am willing to be satisfied with.

That's the rub, what will it cost?

It wont be cheap

 

[Del_X]

The Steam Deck OLED is like $650 so... yeah?

 

[Astray]

A hybrid PC with all the capabilities of an Xbox including BC support on the other hand tho ...

I think this device will be super expensive (easily +$1000), and seemingly won't be as well-distributed as past Xboxes were.

 

[adamsapple]

I think this device will be super expensive (easily +$1000), and seemingly won't be as well-distributed as past Xboxes were.

Yeah, it's, as the safest bet, is going to be somewhere between $700 and $1000 easily. But, IMO, it'd be an easier buy in if it's marking the start of a new generation.

 

[Jigsaah]

Xbox's appeal is concentrated in the US and UK, but even in these key markets, its influence is waning. The PS5 is outperforming the Xbox Series X|S by a greater margin than the PS4 did against the Xbox One in these regions. While Microsoft can set their pricing strategy as they see fit, they will need to significantly differentiate themselves from Sony if they want to maintain relevance.

Sony can charge a premium for the PS5 Pro because it is positioned as a high-end product, similar to the DualSense Edge. It’s a low-volume, high-price strategy, and the sales expectations reflect that.

From what I read online, the rumored Xbox 'handheld' will likely be part of Microsoft’s next generation, similar to how the Series S fits in, which suggests it won't be a premium product like the PS5 Pro. Its goal will likely be to establish a solid foundation for the next-gen Xbox ecosystem. Whether Series S-level specs can handle the demands of 2030s games is another discussion, but that’s the narrative many Xbox influencers are pushing: a handheld to cover the "S" tier and a bigger box to cover the "X" tier (don't really want to start talking how much of a PC-like will these products be because then we'll have to talk about MS losing their entire ecosystem)

Additionally, with the Switch 2 expected to capture the majority of third-party ports, it will become a direct competitor to all current consoles and beyond.

I'm pretty sure Xbox has been doing this (trying to differentiate themselves)...much to the chagrin of Xbox fans everywhere with them porting games to the PS5 and really diving into the idea of 3rd party publishing to a direct competitor. Despite this, Sarah Bond is saying something to the effect of Xbox is making the most advanced console ever. I mean, we'll see about that. I didn't feel particularly confident in that statement.

However, in a world where Steam Deck and ROG Ally exists....can Xbox afford to enter the handheld space with something in between the Switch and Steam Deck OLED? Does Cloud mitigate some of the processing power needed in the system? I think about GeForce now, which plays games at great specs if you pay for that tier. It's how it mitigates a lack of processing power on the user's end. Essentially, does Cloud allow Microsoft to offer a product for less than a premium price, with more or less a premium experience where your mileage will vary based on internet quality?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Yeah, it's, as the safest bet, is going to be somewhere between $700 and $1000 easily. But, IMO, it'd be an easier buy in if it's marking the start of a new generation.

I think so too, if consoles do continue to be made and end up costing 700 or more, then buying a pro console starts getting less attractive. Buying in for a whole generation is a bit more palatable on the understanding that you'll get 6-8 years out of it.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Despite this, Sarah Bond is saying something to the effect of Xbox is making the most advanced console ever. I mean, we'll see about that. I didn't feel particularly confident in that statement.

Why didn't you feel confident about it? It'll be the most powerful console on the market when it launches. It won't be less powerful than the PS5 pro.

 

[Astray]

Yeah, it's, as the safest bet, is going to be somewhere between $700 and $1000 easily. But, IMO, it'd be an easier buy in if it's marking the start of a new generation.

I think the arrival of this device ahead of time (and the arrival of the PS5 Pro before it) heralds the ultimate end of generations.

It's gonna be like the Samsung/Apple cycles from now on, with more iterations that are escalating in price.

 

[Astray]

Why didn't you feel confident about it? It'll be the most powerful console on the market when it launches. It won't be less powerful than the PS5 pro.

I think he means that there's a chance this device doesn't happen.

If it is, then we should be hearing definitively and very soon about the manufacturing contracts for it (we are hearing about PS6 already).

 

[Jigsaah]

Why didn't you feel confident about it? It'll be the most powerful console on the market when it launches. It won't be less powerful than the PS5 pro.

It's more because it's an empty statement. Xbox Series X is currently the most powerful console on paper. In practice, Xbox has had some issues in comparison to 3rd party games releasing on the PS5. Games not releasing on time on Xbox because the mandate to release on Series S. It's like who cares if your console is the most powerful if it's harder to develop for and the end user has an inferior experience when all is said and done. It's not in every game but the fact that it's in ANY game just illustrates why this is an empty statement.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It's more because it's an empty statement. Xbox Series X is currently the most powerful console on paper. In practice, Xbox has had some issues in comparison to 3rd party games releasing on the PS5. Games not releasing on time on Xbox because the mandate to release on Series S. It's like who cares if your console is the most powerful if it's harder to develop for and the end user has an inferior experience when all is said and done. It's not in every game but the fact that it's in ANY game just illustrates why this is an empty statement.

She was careful with her wording saying the great tech leap ever which in theory could just be adding in DLSS like features

 

[Jigsaah]

She was careful with her wording saying the great tech leap ever which in theory could just be adding in DLSS like features

There you go, thank you. I couldn't remember the words.

 

[mckmas8808]

That 2TB Series X price is pretty stupid in fact imo its more stupid than the PS5 Pros as at least with the Pro you are getting an upgraded console.

Its still not a fair comparison unless you add the drive to the Pro

Fair enough. I think $780 for the PS5 Pro is 100x a better deal that the 2TB Series X for $600 for the same reason you said and most here would agree with that.

Using PS4 Pro as an example, this has 100% set the precedent for future console prices. You'd be naive to think otherwise.



There is only one version of the PS5 Pro. There are multiple versions of SX with different price points and HDD/Drive configs.

It continues to be a moot comparison.

It's not a moot point. The point is the cost for these consoles and all electronic devices are going up! I doubt the PS6 will be $700 a launch. You must be smoking crack if you think that's gonna happen LOL!!!!

I think the arrival of this device ahead of time (and the arrival of the PS5 Pro before it) heralds the ultimate end of generations.

It's gonna be like the Samsung/Apple cycles from now on, with more iterations that are escalating in price.

Console gaming can't do this. It's not possible!

 

[Mr Reasonable]

It's more because it's an empty statement. Xbox Series X is currently the most powerful console on paper. In practice, Xbox has had some issues in comparison to 3rd party games releasing on the PS5. Games not releasing on time on Xbox because the mandate to release on Series S. It's like who cares if your console is the most powerful if it's harder to develop for and the end user has an inferior experience when all is said and done. It's not in every game but the fact that it's in ANY game just illustrates why this is an empty statement.

I don't think it is an empty statement, I think it's a pretty clear message that describes Xbox as being committed to putting out a powerful system.

Obviously, for time immemorial what developers deliver depends on a number of variables including their vision, the time they have, the scale of the team, etc. etc.

For all the talk of the Series S being this terrible anchor, I don't think we've heard of the Series X version of software suffering, it shouldn't be controversial to recognise that in many cases the Series X version is the definitive console release.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Fair enough. I think $780 for the PS5 Pro is 100x a better deal that the 2TB Series X for $600 for the same reason you said and most here would agree with that.

Without a doubt I would rather get the Pro IF I was a Playstation fan

I brought this up days ago none of those price comparisons matter though if you are already invested into one system or the other

 

[adamsapple]

It's not a moot point. The point is the cost for these consoles and all electronic devices are going up! I doubt the PS6 will be $700 a launch. You must be smoking crack if you think that's gonna happen LOL!!!

??

If the elctronics and consoles are only gonna go up in price, it makes even more sense that the next PS will be *at the minimum* priced the same as the PS5 Pro.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Deleted

 

[Jigsaah]

I don't think it is an empty statement, I think it's a pretty clear message that describes Xbox as being committed to putting out a powerful system.

Obviously, for time immemorial what developers deliver depends on a number of variables including their vision, the time they have, the scale of the team, etc. etc.

For all the talk of the Series S being this terrible anchor, I don't think we've heard of the Series X version of software suffering, it shouldn't be controversial to recognise that in many cases the Series X version is the definitive console release.

I feel like it's too vague at this point and time will tell. As HeisenbergFX4 pointed out...she says greatest tech leap? That could mean a lot of things. I don't doubt Xbox's commitment to this. I'm just saying we don't actually know what this tech leap means. I suppose we will know in time and maybe this would justify whatever price point they land at. I can't say for sure though simply because there's just not enough information.

I agree that it shouldn't be controversial...yet at least on this forum I'm pretty sure folks would be hard pressed to admit this...and maybe for good reason I'm not sure. I don't pay very close attention to these comparisons. I play mainly on PC so even in situations where the PC release if flawed, in most cases, after patches, PC still comes out on top.

 

[Astray]

Console gaming can't do this. It's not possible!

I think with backcompat being a mandated requirement by fans (and companies seeing it as a way to lock people in), this is going to be the future from now on.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yes. I'd have no issue if Xbox carged $700 as long as it's powerful and I am not limited to Microsoft Store games.

Asus already charges $800 for the Ally X.

 

[mckmas8808]

??

If the elctronics and consoles are only gonna go up in price, it makes even more sense that the next PS will be *at the minimum* priced the same as the PS5 Pro.

There just isn't enough people to sell to at $700 though.

 

[Jigsaah]

There just isn't enough people to sell to at $700 though.

Exactly! Where does the price plateau at? Could it actually revert to $500 or are these days over now?

 

[mckmas8808]

Exactly! Where does the price plateau at? Could it actually revert to $500 or are these days over now?

I think $500 is OVER.

No way the PS6 is $500, but I can see $600 by 2028 with no disc drive. I hope the attached drive can cost $50 by then.

 

[adamsapple]

There just isn't enough people to sell to at $700 though.

They're not gonna sell it next year though. At the earliest, the next PS will be 2028 or so, by that time the $700 PS5 Pro price tag will seem quaint.

 

[bender]

Fair enough. I think $780 for the PS5 Pro is 100x a better deal that the 2TB Series X for $600 for the same reason you said and most here would agree with that.

Investing $600-800 this late into a generation feels like a real Sophie's Choice even if you find one of the options a better deal.

 

[newtypepilot]

xbox is in no position in releasing any new hardware, let alone one at $700. Hardware costs a lot of money and time in R&D. By the time it's out, they would've been several years behind the competition, in a crowded segment no less. One of the reasons why xbox is failing is because they've always been reacting, instead of doing their own thing.

xbox is a sinking ship. All they have is gamepass. They are already shifting towards being 3rd party only.

 

[Jigsaah]

What I find to be more weird, are you guys that want to pretend as if the $600 special edition Xbox Series X doesn't exist. But triple down on how IMPORTANT TEH PS5 PRO IS TO SONYZ. We all know and acknowledge that at BEST the PS5 Pro will sell 15% of all PS5s going forward. But closer to 5-10%.

So why this heavy focus on the PS5 Pros price, but not the 2TB Xbox Series X's price?

I kinda mentioned it indirectly in the OP when I said Xbox is raising their prices despite PS5 is the more popular console. I should have been more specific, but yes I was referring to the 2 TB console. I didn't actually know until I made this thread that it was $600. That's crazy. It was never even a consideration because it's not an upgraded console.

As far as why I'm comparing the PS5 Pro, to Xbox 2TB? Well, I'm not really. I'm looking at pricing in an absolute sense. Like, regardless of the offering...the ceiling has been shattered.

 

[mckmas8808]

Investing $600-800 this late into a generation feels like a real Sophie's Choice even if you find one of the options a better deal.

This late? Bro we are only half way through the PS5 generation lol. Why do you think it's so late? Unreal Engine 5 just started getting solid on the PS5 this year.

 

[bender]

This late? Bro we are only half way through the PS5 generation lol. Why do you think it's so late? Unreal Engine 5 just started getting solid on the PS5 this year.

Yes, this late. We are four years into the console cycle. PS6 will probably arrive in another two years, maybe three. I'd say your money is better spent going towards that device that will have all the Pro niceties plus its' own next generation feature set rather than buying a Pro, that is $200-280 more expensive than it's little brother and that most games will not take advantage of, particularly those released during the first four years of its' lifecycle.

 

[DenchDeckard]

But at $1,000 that thing would top out at 20 million sold. At $1,500 it would top out at 10 million sold. Why do you want to kill Xbox like this?

Xbox in its console form is on its way out and a 25 million selling super console / pc hybrid that runs steam. Let's go.

If microsoft is making profit on it then I'm sure they'd be happier than they are now.

What I find to be more weird, are you guys that want to pretend as if the $600 special edition Xbox Series X doesn't exist. But triple down on how IMPORTANT TEH PS5 PRO IS TO SONYZ. We all know and acknowledge that at BEST the PS5 Pro will sell 15% of all PS5s going forward. But closer to 5-10%.

So why this heavy focus on the PS5 Pros price, but not the 2TB Xbox Series X's price?

The 2tb limited edition console probably has a million to 2 million units manufactured and that will be it. This waste of space is not comparable to the pro. It's just a pointless 2tb xbox that ms wants to make some money on clearly. It's stupid but customers may buy the limited units.

The pro is sonys ps pro lol. Simple

 

[Jigsaah]

xbox is in no position in releasing any new hardware, let alone one at $700. Hardware costs a lot of money and time in R&D. By the time it's out, they would've been several years behind the competition, in a crowded segment no less. One of the reasons why xbox is failing is because they've always been reacting, instead of doing their own thing.

xbox is a sinking ship. All they have is gamepass. They are already shifting towards being 3rd party only.

Xbox is definitely in a position to release new hardware...which is why they are releasing new hardware. Simple as that. The $700 price point has to be looked at in terms of WHEN they release it. Rumors suggest the earliest would be 2026. Given that these rumors also suggest that it could be in the form of a handheld, this marks new ground for Xbox as a brand and depending on what they offer and how it compares to competition, a $700 price point may or may not be justified.

As far as the "reacting, instead of doing their own thing" I would say that they do both. Gamepass was not a reaction...this was them doing their own thing...so much so that Sony has copied it to an extent. Going 3rd party, could be considered doing it's own thing. They've been releasing games on PC for years, something that Sony is now copying. Even releasing 1st party games on a direct competitor's platform is something no one else, including Sony is doing right now. Cloud could be considered a reaction to Sony, but they've taken it much further than anyone else in the console space.

I agree that Xbox is in a peculiar position right now...I would not call it a sinking ship though.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

And neither matters in the end if you're not interested in their games

Exactly!

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, this late. We are four years into the console cycle. PS6 will probably arrive in another two years, maybe three. I'd say your money is better spent going towards that device that will have all the Pro niceties plus its' own next generation feature set rather than buying a Pro, that is $200-280 more expensive than it's little brother and that most games will not take advantage of, particularly those released during the first four years of its' lifecycle.

Even if it launched in Fall of 2027, me buying a Pro in 2 months still makes perfect sense. But how could a PS6 launch in 2027, when their 1st party games haven't even come out on the PS5 yet?

Xbox in its console form is on its way out and a 25 million selling super console / pc hybrid that runs steam. Let's go.

If microsoft is making profit on it then I'm sure they'd be happier than they are now.


The 2tb limited edition console probably has a million to 2 million units manufactured and that will be it. This waste of space is not comparable to the pro. It's just a pointless 2tb xbox that ms wants to make some money on clearly. It's stupid but customers may buy the limited units.

The pro is sonys ps pro lol. Simple

And which one do you think the gaming culture will talk and care about in 2025?

 

[bender]

Even if it launched in Fall of 2027, me buying a Pro in 2 months still makes perfect sense. But how could a PS6 launch in 2027, when their 1st party games haven't even come out on the PS5 yet?

They'll launch a new system when the trajectory of PS5 sales dictate so which will probably be in 2-3 years from now. Even if your 1st party game dribble were true, which it isn't, cross generation is here to stay, so the PS5 will be supported years into the PS6 lifecycle. 3rd parties will also probably support PS4/PS5/PS6 depending on the title as there is no reason to leave behind an active userbase.

 

[adamsapple]

Cross posting from another thread.

In general polling, most people seem to think the next PS will be $700 or more.

 

[mckmas8808]

They'll launch a new system when the trajectory of PS5 sales dictate so which will probably be in 2-3 years from now. Even if your 1st party game dribble were true, which it isn't, cross generation is here to stay, so the PS5 will be supported years into the PS6 lifecycle. 3rd parties will also probably support PS4/PS5/PS6 depending on the title as there is no reason to leave behind an active userbase.

This gives more reason to not put the PS6 out too early to me. Xbox isn't a real competitor anymore either. So why the rush? Sony might push it back to 2029 if they can just to get the price a little lower. Because lets be honest........a $299 PS5 will sell crazy for years if they can get the price down to that. And a $500 PS5 Pro in the year 2027 may sound incredible to someone that's looking to graduate from their Nintendo Switch 2.