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[Noobcraft]

Nah, put those people to collaborate with Polyphony. Let's add some DriveClub sauce to GT7

I don't think polyphony has ever had problems adding their own sauce to their own games. GT games have been some of the most painstakingly detailed and graphically impressive games on every PlayStation console.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Generally speaking, i think it would be much better if reviews dropped the scores. Then people would have to read what people actually said. It seems to be much arguements around the score itself rather than what the review is actually saying as a whole.

We live in the 5 word headline or 140 character tweet world now. Information comes at us via headlines.

People read the little summaries and check the scores and that's it

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I think it would be a death sentence if they put the whole team on it. But a small 15-20 person chunk working on another one a'la Wipeout HD? That wouldn't be a death sentence.

Is 15-20 enough, though? They seem to have time management issues with the year long delay of Drive Club. Best best is to get them right to work on a sequel, possibly an open world one to complement Gran Turismo.

 

[Oersted]

Edit: Nvm, not worth it

 

[prwxv3]

I've written reviews and been told by my editor that I needed to change my score. I tried to give a Black Keys album a high rating and my editor insisted I lower it a whole point, because they weren't a popular band at the time (joke was on him as it turned out to be their breakout record). The review was very positive but the score a little less so.

Holy shit that is scummy. How did you feel when your editor told you this?

 

[Riky]

There are problems too with the computer-controlled drivers, who are so obsessed with following the racing line you’d think you were playing Gran Turismo on the PS one

Wow, I wonder what state it was in at the PS4 launch then, they still haven't fixed something as glaring as this suggests they should have delayed it again.

 

[Hilti92]

It's crazy seeing people wanting this game to do bad and being glad it's not doing the greatest. I know people can be big fan boys and everything but come on, isn't it negative to gaming when a highly anticipated game comes out and it disappoints/does bad review wise? I no longer have my PS4 but was still hoping the game did well.

 

[BruiserBear]

And, right from the beginning, their concerns certainly had to be absolutely valid, amirite?

I'm not even sure what this kind of concern could possibly be about. I can only try to take clues from the fact that 2 seconds later you're praising MS for milking a single racing franchise more than once a year, whereas with Sony we must question the legitimacy of even daring to bring a new racing franchise into the world.

So everyone who made those criticisms of Driveclub was just totally off base? Press who covered the PS4 reveal event, where Driveclub was announced saying things like "why does Sony want another serious racer" "they've already got Gran Turismo". This was a sub narrative of this game from the moment it was announced. It's followed the game, even through it's nearly one year delay. Last week's IGN Playstation podcast included a conversation covering all these things I'm saying. If you'd like to accuse them of having an agenda, that's cool.

And releasing different games under the same brand that are quite different is "milking"? I disagree. They're quality games that really differentiate from one another. They justify their existence by being different enough.

Driveclub differentiates itself from GT by stripping out a shit ton of features, including basics like replays, cutting the car count well below 100, and by featuring racing on roads instead of tracks. Nobody wants a great arcade racer on the PS4 more than me. Motorstorm was the game that got me to buy a PS3 the day it came out.

 

[JackAubrey]

Some reviewers are just shit at assigning a number that matches their words. But can write reviews well.

The problem here is the editor. A good editor should work with the reviewer to make sure the text and score match.

That could mean changing the score or the text - but questioning and helping the reviewer ensure she or he is getting the best out of work. It usually doesn't take much work, just getting the tone of the text and balance with positive/negative to match how much the reviewer rates it, or

Personally I prefer to just get rid of scores. I was a writer/editor for over a decade, mostly in games, but other things too. I don't do it anymore. My last job I did for over six years and was mostly commissioning and editing reviews, and we did go back to scores with the writer to make sure they were happy that things matched. More often than not they value the input of the editor to help them express their feelings correctly.

 

[Coolwhip]

Generally speaking, i think it would be much better if reviews dropped the scores. Then people would have to read what people actually said. It seems to be much arguements around the score itself rather than what the review is actually saying as a whole.

Of course, but people want numbers so they don't have to use their brain.

 

[Stuggernaut]

Honestly reviews these days are silly for all games. I prefer GAF reviews and opinions. Look forward to reading them in the OT over the next few weeks.

Hope everyone that has it has fun

 

[Philly40]

I read pages 1 to 4 and page 46. Anything fun happen in between that's worth reading?

I knew this would end up being a semi-turd. I figured 6s and 7s at the most from the main media outlets, and then a couple of high 9.5+ scores from Playstation-only sites. This game always looked like a bore-fest. But you know what, we get like 20% of it for free so fuck it, I'll give it a shot.

Why didn't you actually give it a shot before calling it a semi-turd bore-fest?

 

[test_account]

We live in the 5 word headline or 140 character tweet world now. Information comes at us via headlines.

People read the little summaries and check the scores and that's it

Of course, but people want numbers so they don't have to use their brain.

Yeah, thats true. I guess most review outlets are scared of changing since maybe they think they will lose readers then.

 

[JackAubrey]

I've written reviews and been told by my editor that I needed to change my score. I tried to give a Black Keys album a high rating and my editor insisted I lower it a whole point, because they weren't a popular band at the time (joke was on him as it turned out to be their breakout record). The review was very positive but the score a little less so.

I can picture reviewers enjoying the game, then being told by their editors that it's a boring racing game and they need to lower the score.

Well that's crappy editing that's for sure.

I've asked writers to lower a score because in no way it matches their review. So if they want to still give that game a 9 they'd better put a heck of a lot more actually liking the game in their text.

I'd usually give the reviews a first read without looking at the score. Then try to guess what they'd given. If my guess from the text was wildly different I'd discuss it with the writer. But not because I wanted to give a particular score - but because I wanted the reviewer to give the consistently best work they were able to for their own pride, and for our readers to have confidence in our work.

 

[IcyEyes]

I've written reviews and been told by my editor that I needed to change my score. I tried to give a Black Keys album a high rating and my editor insisted I lower it a whole point, because they weren't a popular band at the time (joke was on him as it turned out to be their breakout record). The review was very positive but the score a little less so.

I can picture reviewers enjoying the game, then being told by their editors that it's a boring racing game and they need to lower the score.

Interesting post.
I have some friends who write reviews for some popular website and I know how they work ...
In these days, the ego of some reviewers is pretty ... big.

I'm only sorry for all that people who miss some good games because of a score or a not well written review.

Honestly reviews these days are silly for all games. I prefer GAF reviews and opinions. Look forward to reading them in the OT over the next few weeks.

Hope everyone that has it has fun

Nice post.

 

[nowheretorun]

People buying a game is neither an indicator that the people enjoy the game nor that it is any good.

Nor are review scores...

I hope it does. I want it to be good - it's why I bought a PS4 at launch.

I cancelled my PS+ pre-order and wanted to wait to try the free version. I'm no fan of review scores, I often find scores not matching the words on the page - often reading text that I'd score a couple of points lower. Scores seem to stop people reading the words - often completely ignoring interesting critical points merely because they don't like a number.

I believe that art criticism is vital to any artform. In fact I'd go as far as to say something can't truly be art without a valid discourse. Cinema, literature, theatre, music etc. all seem to manage to exist within a world of discussion, reviews and opinion.

It makes me sad that people see a number and decide they wish to have the discussion ended. The way people talk about reviewers as though they are a different species. The head in the sand approach to any kind of criticism of something they have been looking forward to. Laughable comments about how the industry is corrupt because it didn't follow the expected narrative of unsophisticated consumer .

One review doesn't necessarily tell a whole story, but it exists within a larger discourse. I've read plenty of Driveclub reviews today and there are common things that do come out of it - places where you see agreement in both positive and negative reviews. And so one can read the reviews and form a narrative around the game - see which elements are likely to be problematic to you, which are not. And that discourse informs you as a consumer of products like this. I know that my issues with Driveclub will come down to the handling model, off track penalties and the AI - with other issues being less important. For another gamer the focus will be different. These are the things I will be looking out for when I play on Friday.

People say reviews don't matter. They do. Discussion of art is culturally significant. Yes you can argue that all the panning in the world doesn't stop Michael Bay shitting out another Transformer turd. But so what, it doesn't mean cinema criticism has to stoop to his base level of artistic drought. Some of the best writing you can ever read is movie criticism, some of the best writers have had a stab at it. The same with book and theatre reviews.

But who would want to be a games reviewer when the audience for those reviews can barely see beyond a number, or is like an audience of monkeys throwing shit at the screen.

Great post.

Cancelled my pre-order and will give the "demo" version a go first. It looks decent on streams etc but I'd rather test it for myself given some comments.

I was going to do the same but the India setting and tracks (the ones in the ps+ version) looked to be lacking to the others I'd seen (the full version) which convinced me to buy the full. I think the main thing you'll get from the ps+ version is the games handling but then again, tracks can vastly change an opinion of how a car handles imo.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

This will probably come off as a bit crazy but looking at at the progress of Drive Club I really doubt that Sony was being honest about it being a launch title in the first place. When it was revealed they were only what, 35% complete? Were they really THAT confident in programming the majority of a AAA title in several months? Were they really off their mark by a YEAR?

It makes more sense that Sony was just calling it a launch title to help guarantee good early press.

That's a bit tinfoil-ish but I think you have a point. They had to have known the game had no chance to be a launch title when they announced it as such.

Why didn't you actually give it a shot before calling it a semi-turd bore-fest?

All these realistic track racing games are the same to me. I'm open-minded tho, I'll give it a shot. My tastes have evolved so maybe I'll like it, but odds are it'll be a semi-turd.

 

[Servbot24]

Holy shit that is scummy. How did you feel when your editor told you this?

I quit

 

[ALLseeingEYE]

It's too bad the review scores aren't that great. My worry for this game was always that it seemed uninspired.

I will try to read impressions, but how are people feeling about this? It's apparently an average-good game, is this a franchise worth making a sequel to? I would not be sad at all to see these guys go back and make a current-gen Motorstorm, now that could be something special.

 

[Decepticon]

lol Playstation Mag giving a good review? Whats the point?

 

[-tetsuo-]

Last time I checked I think there is also "gameplay" in DriveClub... and better driving model too.

If by gameplay you're implying open-world layout, then there's no comparison here, if that's your preference you shouldn't even be considering DriveClub.



It really doesn't. You've forgotten what constitutes a racing game if you're declaring DC a shell for the reasons listed below.



Having more to do doesn't objectively make a racing game better. You're just entertaining the idea of sandbox game design more than strictly racing, and marking down a racer for sticking to its purpose is dismissing the foundations of the entire genre.

When it comes to driving fast cars skillfully in beautifully rendered locales, around challenging track designs, with your friends' skills literally painted onto the pavement for you to compete with, for all the bells and whistles you can put on Forza, it just doesn't hold a candle to Driveclub.

It is, in the purest sense, driving at its finest.

To call this game a shell, and soul less and bland, is insultingly ignorant.

This is way off base. Like, actually, completely off base.

Comparing the driving model is pointless in that, one person will prefer another and also you can basically completely change the way Forza handles by adjusting assists. On top of that, you can change the way the individual cars handle even more because every vehicle in the game is subject to some decently robust car tuning options. On top of that, all of the said cars in the game will handle differently on the road and off the road. So, going back to that statement, which driving model is that you want to compare? Fully assisted? Fully UN-assisted? Un-tuned? Street race? Rally or completely off road race? Somewhere in the middle ground? As it stands, there is MUCH more to consider from a driving standpoint and that is not even remotely arguable.

This leads to the other point of Forza having more even IF it wasn't an open world racer. If you were to be lead from race to race in a tour mode, the races consist of a wider variety of racing types. Forza has a wider variety of car types as well to get a feel of the top end and bottom end of the driving world. There are city circuit races, rally races and off road races with some combining the types. There are in game challenges that compare your scores/times/drifts etc with others on your friends list or in your club. There are online races of all of these types on top of just for fun modes like infection or king. There are straight up co-op racing challanges. As mentioned earlier, there is a full blown car upgrade and tuning system for all of the vehicles. There is a marketplace for you to find and apply designs for your car as well as a livery shop for you to create your own. There is quite a lot of "strictly racing" in Forza. There is also quite a lot of other stuff in the game as well with no detriment to its driving.

It certainly holds a candle to Driveclub. For all intents and purposes it is Driveclub that doesn't hold a candle to it. The game, for what it is, is sitting at 75 on metacritic, which means it is a good game. Forza is sitting at 85 or some shit. It deserves it because it does what it is supposed to, driving fast cars around beautiful locales, at the top of its class. It also does more than that. It is easy to see how the game would draw ire for its lack of anything but straight driving, especially being released so close to Forza.

 

[Melchiah]

Interesting post.
I have some friends who write reviews for some popular website and I know how they work ...
In these days, the ego of some reviewers is pretty ... big.

I'm only sorry for all that people who miss some good games because of a score or a not well written review.

In the music circles it's sometimes the opposite. A friend of mine wrote reviews for a Finnish magazine several years ago, and gave a certain well-known local band's album a mediocre score. It was afterwards raised to 9/10 by the editor, eventhough the text was kept the same, because the band's recording label was the biggest sponsor of the mag.

 

[DOWN]

I was willing to buy it as a tech demo, but I'm actually enjoying it a ton. It's average on metacritic is about where I'd expect for this graphics centric racer.

 

[chopstik]

those gaming journalist scores. Wow.
good thing I have little trust in them, I follow my educated instinct and word of mouth.

 

[Decepticon]

Honestly reviews these days are silly for all games. I prefer GAF reviews and opinions. Look forward to reading them in the OT over the next few weeks.

Hope everyone that has it has fun

Oh right, A PS4 game gets bad reviews "Reviews are silly" An Xbone games gets bad reviews "HAHAH DUMB M$"

But reviews are silly People enjoy bad games let them be.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

lol Playstation Mag giving a good review? Whats the point?

The Playstation-only site reviews are actually both high and low. I figured they'd be high but some of them are just as critical as the non-PS sites so I don't think there's a bias.

 

[hoos30]

It's crazy seeing people wanting this game to do bad and being glad it's not doing the greatest. I know people can be big fan boys and everything but come on, isn't it negative to gaming when a highly anticipated game comes out and it disappoints/does bad review wise? I no longer have my PS4 but was still hoping the game did well.

Console Warz

 

[Melchiah]

The Playstation-only site reviews are actually both high and low. I figured they'd be high but some of them are just as critical as the non-PS sites so I don't think there's a bias.

The Offical UK PS magazine used to have pretty good and fair reviews back in the late 90's. PS exclusives didn't escape flogging if they deserved it.

 

[Raist]

I don't get comments like this:

In fact, it's hard to find any true celebration here. Driveclub is ordinary menus and ordinary races, standard time trials, and a few drift events. Driveclub is bland social competition. Driveclub is the fear of risks and the embrace of the ordinary. It's basic racing in basic packaging, beautiful and inert and full of attractive cars. It is not, however, an argument for a new generation of driving, given how it fails to exceed the standards of the old one.

What would a "new generation of driving" be?
I mean, you could replace Driveclub in that paragraph with pretty much any racing game title ever.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

This is way off base. Like, actually, completely off base.

Comparing the driving model is pointless in that, one person will prefer another and also you can basically completely change the way Forza handles by adjusting assists. On top of that, you can change the way the individual cars handle even more because every vehicle in the game is subject to some decently robust car tuning options. On top of that, all of the said cars in the game will handle differently on the road and off the road. So, going back to that statement, which driving model is that you want to compare? Fully assisted? Fully UN-assisted? Un-tuned? Street race? Rally or completely off road race? Somewhere in the middle ground? As it stands, there is MUCH more to consider from a driving standpoint and that is not even remotely arguable.

This leads to the other point of Forza having more even IF it wasn't an open world racer. If you were to be lead from race to race in a tour mode, the races consist of a wider variety of racing types. Forza has a wider variety of car types as well to get a feel of the top end and bottom end of the driving world. There are city circuit races, rally races and off road races with some combining the types. There are in game challenges that compare your scores/times/drifts etc with others on your friends list or in your club. There are online races of all of these types on top of just for fun modes like infection or king. There are straight up co-op racing challanges. As mentioned earlier, there is a full blown car upgrade and tuning system for all of the vehicles. There is a marketplace for you to find and apply designs for your car as well as a livery shop for you to create your own. There is quite a lot of "strictly racing" in Forza. There is also quite a lot of other stuff in the game as well with no detriment to its driving.

It certainly holds a candle to Driveclub. For all intents and purposes it is Driveclub that doesn't hold a candle to it. The game, for what it is, is sitting at 75 on metacritic, which means it is a good game. Forza is sitting at 85 or some shit. It deserves it because it does what it is supposed to, driving fast cars around beautiful locales, at the top of its class. It also does more than that. It is easy to see how the game would draw ire for its lack of anything but straight driving, especially being released so close to Forza.

Eh, you should be nice to Rapier...he's clearly so balls-deep in love with Drive Club that he seems to have lost any sense of perspective on other games which may compete directly for many of the same fans. I do agree with what you've said, though...FH2 is so much more than most give it credit for when they label it as some inferior open world racer or something. It really has it all over most other racing games, though I understand if there are those who cannot dig deep enough to understand what it offers since it doesn't put everything up in a nice, tidy list of choices like simpler, more traditional games do.

 

[Oersted]

Nor are review scores...

A guarantee that you will love/hate/ something inbetween it? No.

A indicator that it is good/bad? Yes.

Driveclub doesn't seem bad, so where is the issue?

 

[boredandlazy]

I don't get comments like this:



What would a "new generation of driving" be?
I mean, you could replace Driveclub in that paragraph with pretty much any racing game title ever.

Open world silly.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Oh right, A PS4 game gets bad reviews "Reviews are silly" An Xbone games gets bad reviews "HAHAH DUMB M$"

But reviews are silly People enjoy bad games let them be.

Take your silly confirmation bias back to GameFAQs and /v/.

 

[Scorpion Soldier]

I don't think polyphony has ever had problems adding their own sauce to their own games. GT games have been some of the most painstakingly detailed and graphically impressive games on every PlayStation console.

Well I'm mostly talking about sound and menu design, which are things I think Polyphony could do some revamping at. Sony's internal studios often tend to exchange resources and support, so in theory I could definitely see them lending a hand. (Not saying that's gonna happen, but I could see it happening.

 

[boredandlazy]

Oh right, A PS4 game gets bad reviews "Reviews are silly" An Xbone games gets bad reviews "HAHAH DUMB M$"

But reviews are silly People enjoy bad games let them be.

Say what you want about reviews, but dumb comments will always be dumb comments.

 

[Raist]

Open world silly.

Oh. Well I guess it is, for people who never heard of racing games outside GT/FM.

 

[Noobcraft]

Well I'm mostly talking about sound and menu design, which are things I think Polyphony could do some revamping at. Sony's internal studios often tend to exchange resources and support, so in theory I could definitely see them lending a hand. (Not saying that's gonna happen, but I could see it happening.

That's true. Polyphony should share assets with Evo and let polyphony have some of the sound assets in particular.

 

[dugdug]

Kinda weird to see Sony completely ignoring this game on social media. PlayStation hasn't said a word. Nothing from Yosp, or Scott Rohde.

I know the reviews are disappointing, but, at least try!

 

[Nafai1123]

Oh right, A PS4 game gets bad reviews "Reviews are silly" An Xbone games gets bad reviews "HAHAH DUMB M$"

But reviews are silly People enjoy bad games let them be.

Might not want to throw stones with a post history like that...

 

[Red Chocobo]

Kinda weird to see Sony completely ignoring this game on social media.

That isn't weird. That's just how Sony markets it's first-party games.

 

[rrc1594]

Kinda weird to see Sony completely ignoring this game on social media. PlayStation hasn't said a word. Nothing from Yosp, or Scott Rohde.

I know the reviews are disappointing, but, at least try!

What do you want them to say?

 

[kaching]

So everyone who made those criticisms of Driveclub was just totally off base? Press who covered the PS4 reveal event, where Driveclub was announced saying things like "why does Sony want another serious racer" "they've already got Gran Turismo".

Well, let's see, there's no Gran Turismo in sight on PS4 for probably another year, DC clearly approaches racing simulation in a notably different, more arcade fashion anyway and the overall review scores haven't turned out that bad. So what exactly was "right" about those criticisms from literally day 1 that the game was announced and information about the game was at its most limited?

These are platforms intended to be sold to tens of millions of customers in order to be successful and we're to believe there can't somehow be room for more than one racing franchise? That's what passes for informed criticism in this industry now? Did these same luminaries question why MS would need another space marine FPS back when Gears of War was first announced and NOT learn their lesson already from that?

And releasing different games under the same brand that are quite different is "milking"? I disagree. They're quality games that really differentiate from one another. They justify their existence by being different enough.

It's milking the franchise, obviously. I realize the games themselves are markedly different in execution, which just makes it even funnier that we're supposed to give any credence to these faux concerns that DC somehow wasn't going to be anything other than a GT clone before we barely knew a thing about it.

 

[Servbot24]

I don't get comments like this:



What would a "new generation of driving" be?
I mean, you could replace Driveclub in that paragraph with pretty much any racing game title ever.

Thinly veiled assertion that they want open world cinematic gameplay.

Have there been any good reviews which take the game for what it is instead of wishing it were an entirely different genre? I'd like to know if it is good at what it wants to be.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I fucking love FUEL so much, i know not many folk like it but it's right up there with Driver San Francisco as one of my favourite racing games last gen. It has its problems of course but I love its scale, its loneliness and going for a long drive in that world. I love how it's not trying to be a super social experience either, it's a very lonely game and I still play it from time to time. The FUEL Reloaded mod on PC is decent too.

I didn't enjoy it as much as you, but I did like certain aspects of it. Cruising around the vast world with my favourite tracks blasting away in the background was a pretty good experience and I really enjoyed the tornado race. Like really enjoyed it, that was the main reason I bought the game.

Ultimately I felt it was a bit direction-less and too big/vast for its own good sometimes though. Taking 15 minutes to get to the next event was not something I particularly enjoyed.

I don't get comments like this:



What would a "new generation of driving" be?
I mean, you could replace Driveclub in that paragraph with pretty much any racing game title ever.

I always imagined that Studio Liverpool racer where the cars are driving on the side of building as a 'new generation of driving'.

Someone post the gif so there's a reference point, I can't seem to find it.

 

[dugdug]

What do you want them to say?

"Driveclub's out. Buy now!"

I just feel bad for Evolution. Maybe they dug their own grave by under-delivering, but, I don't know. Just sucks for those devs that their publisher seems to not give a shit.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Kinda weird to see Sony completely ignoring this game on social media. PlayStation hasn't said a word. Nothing from Yosp, or Scott Rohde.

I know the reviews are disappointing, but, at least try!

From a Gamestop manager acquaintance of mine, there were many more retail preorders for The Crew on PS4 alone than Drive Club at his and many other stores in the region, so I think they kind of knew it wasn't going to be a massive Gran Turismo hit, so they rightly (or wrongly) focused on putting ad time behind Destiny which still sells quite well across the board, apparently. Guess they're banking on a slow-burn with DLC schedule building it up over time or something.

 

[LKSmash]

User reviews on metacritic are hilarious. They're all 10 or 0 with full praise/vitriol and seemingly no middle ground.

 

[dugdug]

From a Gamestop manager acquaintance of mine, there were many more retail preorders for The Crew on PS4 alone than Drive Club at his and many other stores in the region, so I think they kind of knew it wasn't going to be a massive Gran Turismo hit, so they rightly (or wrongly) focused on putting ad time behind Destiny which still sells quite well across the board, apparently. Guess they're banking on a slow-burn with DLC schedule building it up over time or something.

How much does it cost them to just send a tweet out, though?

They tweeted about Destiny, like, twice a week for months before that game came out. I know there was a marketing deal in place, but, man.

 

[Grok4Spock]

After reading impressions from everyone here, the PS+ edition will determine if I unwrap the game or send it back to Amazon...

 

[rrc1594]

From a Gamestop manager acquaintance of mine, there were many more retail preorders for The Crew on PS4 alone than Drive Club at his and many other stores in the region, so I think they kind of knew it wasn't going to be a massive Gran Turismo hit, so they rightly (or wrongly) focused on putting ad time behind Destiny which still sells quite well across the board, apparently. Guess they're banking on a slow-burn with DLC schedule building it up over time or something.

No way! Really?