Support NeoGAF

[Jimrpg]

After playing DC at two Gamescoms in a row I find a lot of my initial impressions confirmed in fact.

The DC this year at Gamescom was so much more improved than last years Gamescom though. Are you saying it was more or less the same game?

Maybe DC is just not your thing? It can't please everyone.

 

[GlamFM]

So you believe all those 10/10s from PlaystationX, XboxY and NintendoZ? Reviews can easily be slanted by preference.

I was thinking of GB, IGN, Gamespot etc..

 

[Valkyria]

You realise most press have both consoles to do their jobs? It could simply be there is no grand cover up or bias. People simply don't like the game. Some of these posts in this thread are more reaching than gamer gate comments on Twitter.

Do you realize that both companies does not treat the media in the same way? I know a very important spanish forum that got special treatment from Ms and Sony couldn't give a shit about them, and of course that reflects in the news and behavior. I'm pretty sure that Tzare knows of which one I'm talking.

 

[Jimrpg]

I'm sure it isn't, but it feels like distraction tactics. Pile a bunch of distracting side stuff in your game and it'll keep people busy with the impression they are doing something meaningful. That kind of stuff bores me rigid though.

Last gen was all about stuffing a game full of features.

I'm fine if they want to strip away all that stuff and get to the core of the gameplay. That's one of the neat things about Uncharted actually is that there's no side stuff.

 

[GlamFM]

The DC this year at Gamescom was so much more improved than last years Gamescom though. Are you saying it was more or less the same game?

Maybe DC is just not your thing? It can't please everyone.

It was better, but not enough to justify another year of dev time.

Some review said it shouldn´t have been delayed, but cancelled. This is kind of how I felt.

 

[Always-honest]

A 2 out of 5? Goddamn.

 

[Spookie]

Do you realize that both companies does not treat the media in the same way?

You do realise both companies aren't sentient beings who bestow games down from Mount Olympus? They are make up of hundreds of PR staff, who only have a finite amount of time to deal with every request.

 

[fresquito]

I'm finding very amusing seeing so many people getting in touch with the world of Reviews for the first time.

 

[terrier]

A 2 out of 5? Goddamn.

Somre reviews just scream fanboyism or desperate needs for some clicks. Really. Are just out of any logic.

 

[GrandHarrier]

With as troubled a history as the development this game has had I'd not be surprised for it to have a lot of issues. Most of the mediocre reviews seem to match this premise. Once i get a chance to play the free version I fully expect my own feelings on it to align similarly.

 

[Nyx]

Some review said it shouldn´t have been delayed, but cancelled. This is kind of how I felt.

Wow..

So a game that is being enjoyed by tons of people should have been cancelled?

 

[benzy]

Wow..

So a game that is being enjoyed by tons of people should have been cancelled?

Lol, Glam was always on the hate train for DC.

 

[brandonh83]

Instead, it's Jeff gleefully wishing right from the start that he was playing a completely different racing game with completely different goals, rather than evaluating DriveClub as it succeeds (or not) at its own unique racing goals.

With this I feel like you've pretty much hit the nail on the head concerning videogame criticism. The reason that so many of us frown upon reviews and scores is not because we're butthurt over something getting a bad score but rather the fact that many of them feel entitled to reviewing a game based on their preferences instead of what the game is. This is also the difference between the maturity of game reviewers and say film reviewers, and it is staggering. Obviously I'm not lumping all game critics together, and many of them are smart and well-spoken, but at the same time, as you said, they seem to have trouble understanding how to criticize something and as they can be influential in actual purchasing decisions, it's bothersome. I think it's good for a critic to have their own voice and personality, but game critics again seem to feel more entitled than film critics and I think that's a major problem.

The Evil Within is about to drop, and while the game may (or may not!) have technical or gameplay issues, I think the reviews are going to be fucking terrible because it's going to be such a subjective game that isn't for everyone, and this usually means bad news when it comes to review scores. Yet a great many people will fail to see this and assume that the game sucks without trying it for themselves.

 

[Upinsmoke]

This is the problem with 90 percent of reviews though, people are no longer playing a game with an open mind, they are playing the pre-conceived image in there head.

It's why destiny got slaughtered. Compared to a call of duty game with a three-four hour campaign and a well balanced MP it actually got slaughtered because it wasn't the biggest explorable shooter ever conceived.

 

[GlamFM]

Wow..

So a game that is being enjoyed by tons of people should have been cancelled?

I think if they had started from scratch a year ago we would have probably gotten a much better game sometime in 2015.

Also - not my words btw.

Lol, Glam was always on the hate train for DC.

Not hate. I was always very skeptical based on my time with the game.

 

[Denur]

How is the control with the wheel? How is the force feedback?

And according to your experience with other sims/games how would you describe the handling of the cars?

Thanks for your opinion.

I haven't tried many cars yet, but overall the control is good. Only with the first car (Mini) did I feel disconnected from the car, like it has hard road tires equipped. With the more powerful cars there the handling and (force)feedback is much better, it is easy to feel and react to under- and over-steer and the weight shifting in corners of the cars. However, in one of the trails is a short drift section and when I got passed the required score for the bonus points, I didn't have the feeling that I had been drifting at all, the car (one of the Mercs?) felt very light and disconnected from the road.

I haven't driven enough yet to have a good car handling comparison with e.g. GT6. But I can say that DC doesn't feel as arcady to me as I was lead to expect.

 

[terrier]

I think if they had started from scratch a year ago we would have probably gotten a much better game sometime in 2015.

Also - not my words btw.



Not hate. I was always very skeptical based on my time with the game.

You seem to have your opinion set in stone for DC, then why keep posting in DC threads? i do not like open world racers so i just ignore threads about horizon or the crew.
Plus pretend that negative reviews are right just because you do not like the game. It may happen that they do not like the game, just like you, not your cup of tea. Then a fair reviewer should skip that one or be a little professional. Amirox has already explained very well what is happening here.

 

[benzy]

Not hate. I was always very skeptical based on my time with the game.

Nothing to be skeptical about. I've spent 15+ hours with it and the game is amazing.

 

[orioto]

From reading the gamekult review i hear (again) that the game is unimpressive and uncharismatic.

I always felt mixed with all the vids we had for month, and was saying how it looked good only with super nice light setting but most flat weather vids were dull and boring visually..

I've even seen people call the game depressing lol.

And all that is an art direction problem. I still don't get why they don't go more demonstrative and generous with their great light engine.. Also the thing with old school arcade racers (Ridge racer, Scud race..) is they try to be "in your face!!" not subtle.

The game clearly suffers in my opinion (didn't play it by the way) from being in the middle.

Also to shortly derail, i've been vocal in the past about Sony giving his devs too much freedom and them being all artsy with a tendency to be pompous and forget about simple fun. The order is taking the same exact road..

 

[eyeball_kid]

With as troubled a history as the development this game has had I'd not be surprised for it to have a lot of issues. Most of the mediocre reviews seem to match this premise. Once i get a chance to play the free version I fully expect my own feelings on it to align similarly.

Well, at least you're aware of your own confirmation bias.

P.S. I think "troubled history" should be a term reserved for games like DNF and The Last Guardian. DC had/has some hiccups, but there is now a game and people are playing it and liking it.

 

[GlamFM]

You seem to have your opinion set in stone for DC, then why keep posting in DC threads? i do not like open world racers so i just ignore threads about horizon or the crew.

This is the Review thread, not the OT.

 

[pronk420]

I think I could have guessed Jeff wouldn't like Driveclub. Basically he likes Forza a lot and compares everything to that. I don't think its a platform thing, just that he likes Forza and not much else.

 

[biteren]

From reading the gamekult review i hear (again) that the game is unimpressive and uncharismatic.

I always felt mixed with all the vids we had for month, and was saying how it looked good only with super nice light setting but most flat weather vids were dull and boring visually..

I've even seen people call the game depressing lol.

And all that is an art direction problem. I still don't get why they don't go more demonstrative and generous with their great light engine.. Also the thing with old school arcade racers (Ridge racer, Scud race..) is they try to be "in your face!!" not subtle.

The game clearly suffers in my opinion (didn't play it by the way) from being in the middle.

Also to shortly derail, i've been vocal in the past about Sony giving his devs too much freedom and them being all artsy with a tendency to be pompous and forget about simple fun. The order is taking the same exact road..

i fear this aswell

 

[Shaneus]

So reviews aside....is Driveclub the spiritual successor to PGR?

Others have said partially, I'd say it's as close as we'll ever get to a PGR5. In fact, if you added city locations in the mix, you'd be hard pressed to tell the two apart. Only key point to make being that the handling in DC is closer to PGR3 than 4.

 

[terrier]

This is the Review thread, not the OT.

and you can post where you see fit, just i do not see the point if a game you do not seem to like at all and has been like that for a while.

Also to shortly derail, i've been vocal in the past about Sony giving his devs too much freedom and them being all artsy with a tendency to be pompous and forget about simple fun. The order is taking the same exact road..

maybe i am wrong, but one of DC's faults according to reviews seems to be just simple and fun: p2p racing with great handling and great sense of speed. What arcade racers have always pursued btw. I wonder what is wrong with that. MAybe some seem upset because it has fancy gfx and pretend the game is only that.

 

[GlamFM]

You seem to have your opinion set in stone for DC, then why keep posting in DC threads? i do not like open world racers so i just ignore threads about horizon or the crew.
Plus pretend that negative reviews are right just because you do not like the game. It may happen that they do not like the game, just like you, not your cup of tea. Then a fair reviewer should skip that one or be a little professional. Amirox has already explained very well what is happening here.

Well guess what - I think Amirox is wrong.

I can also see that you have not actually read what I posted because I also said that the negative reviews for Destiny are justified and it´s still my GOTY so far.

My enjoyment of a game is not tied to a review - nothing is wrong with having fun with DC.

and you can post where you see fit, just i do not see the point if a game you do not seem to like at all and has been like that for a while.

I agree with the reviews and you do not - I don´t see how that puts you somehow above me.

Agreeing with reviews is an OK thing to do in a review thread I think...

 

[delSai]

Still excited to try it out.

 

[DevilFox]

This, but i just refuse to believe that those reviewers are so ignorant yet they keep their jobs. So it must me something else.

So they are robots and do not have preferences that affect a subjective review? I also have all consoles yet i have preferences.
Oh, and is not a console exclusive thing, happens in most topics, just see how iphone vs android reviews are on 'Professional' sites like the verge

Everyone has preferences but a professional critic put them aside when the time to review comes. His job is to objectively and deeply analyze the product and both things don't happen in this media.
Why? Maybe because it's too young, maybe because of this so-often.mentioned pressure from SHs, maybe because of the business (they need click to survive).
What's sure is that there's a long way to go.
If I think to cinema and I see Andrè Bazin as the author of an old article, I know I'm going to read a piece from a professionist, a real one. Same goes for Philip French, for example.
It's not a case that sometimes I find very interesting game articles written by a movie critic, I remember one in particular. She wasn't a hardcore gamer but she had the skills to analyze that product, bringing up points that others didn't even touched, talking about the game not as a mix of level design+gameplay+tech+etc but reviewing it as a whole, unique piece of work, going into details but always keeping in mind the context.
But what about our media? When I read the author of an article/review, most of the time my reaction is like "now, who the hell is this guy and what are his credentials?". It looks to me that too often the answer is just "he knows to write".
Seriously, our media doesn't need these people. I don't need them for sure, at least.

 

[Valkyria]

This is the Review thread, not the OT.

And agendas must be pushed.

 

[Shaneus]

I love the AI actually, they are such bastards.

I know many hope they dont collide with you most of the time, but the AI actually play like most people online.

No no no, the AI are on rails and don't do anything but stick to the racing line. Haven't you read the reviews?

I love the AI. It's great seeing them tussle up ahead, even to the point where I was close enough to an incident to drive under a car as it was cartwheeling. Incredible stuff that never felt overdone.

 

[GlamFM]

And agendas must be pushed.

Finally, was waiting for that to happen again.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

I've even seen people call the game depressing lol.

Also to shortly derail, i've been vocal in the past about Sony giving his devs too much freedom and them being all artsy with a tendency to be pompous and forget about simple fun. The order is taking the same exact road..

People have called it depressing other than that one poster who complained about how it gave his friend seasonal affective disorder? Of all the complaints about DC, I don't think it causing depression is an appropriate one.

And I think you might need to elaborate on this game being pompous and artsy, because that point also eludes me. In fact, I'd prefer that Sony let their WWS devs have freedom to pursue their artistic vision, rather than trying to conquer some unachievable universal trait of fun.

 

[KooopaKid]

Also to shortly derail, i've been vocal in the past about Sony giving his devs too much freedom and them being all artsy with a tendency to be pompous and forget about simple fun. The order is taking the same exact road..

That has been the case for a while now. They seem to find a nice concept for a game first and then try to apply actual gameplay mechanics.

 

[terrier]

Well guess what - I think Amirox is wrong.

I can also see that you have not actually read what I posted because I also said that the negative reviews for Destiny are justified and it´s still my GOTY so far.

My enjoyment of a game is not tied to a review - nothing is wrong with having fun with DC.



I agree with the reviews and you do not - I don´t see how that puts you somehow above me.

Agreeing with reviews is an OK thing to do in a review thread I think...

Good , i think you are wrong. My enjoyment isn't tied to a review either, but does not mean i ignore what may be happening around me, or if it may affect game sales for example, which would be my main concern if reviews are bad for a game i like.
And nobody puts anybody above someone. I just express my opinion: if you are not interested in a game, i see no point in posting on threads about it, be it OT, review thread or whatever.

 

[GlamFM]

Good , i think you are wrong. My enjoyment isn't tied to a review either, but does not mean i ignore what may be happening around me, or if it may affect game sales for example, which would be my main concern if reviews are bad for a game i like.
And nobody puts anybody above someone. I just express my opinion: if you are not interested in a game, i see no point in posting on threads about it, be it OT, review thread or whatever.

Who said I wasn´t interested?

 

[Tmecha]

my internet is really rubbish so cant try the free PSN trial,

can someone just briefly run through a quick summary of the goods and bads?

Is single player good enough without multi play?

 

[Fevaweva]

A review by someone that didn't know what a hatchback was.

Dan Ryckert didn't. Jeff did.

 

[Loudninja]

my internet is really rubbish so cant try the free PSN trial,

can someone just briefly run through a quick summary of the goods and bads?

Is single player good enough without multi play?

Wrong thread for this question I think.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I haven't played DC yet but what I am most bummed about is how we haven't imo had a great racer this gen yet.

Forza 5 felt good but I think was more fitting of the term souless
FH2 feels just like FH1 to me and is not pulling me back in the same way the first game did.
DC appears to be relatively clunky and all over the place.

Looks like GT7 is my only hope

 

[orioto]

People have called it depressing other than that one poster who complained about how it gave his friend seasonal affective disorder? Of all the complaints about DC, I don't think it causing depression is an appropriate one.

And I think you might need to elaborate on this game being pompous and artsy, because that point also eludes me. In fact, I'd prefer that Sony let their WWS devs have freedom to pursue their artistic vision, rather than trying to conquer some unachievable universal trait of fun.

I won't develop cause i don't want to derail the tread and i won't do a thread about it cause every time i do a thread it comes back in my face or is simply ignored And one criticizing Sony.. lol.

 

[Basileus777]

and you can post where you see fit, just i do not see the point if a game you do not seem to like at all and has been like that for a while.

These threads don't exist for fans to circle-jerk each other free from any dissenting opinions. That includes the OT.

 

[Phat Michael]

Well, at least you're aware of your own confirmation bias.

P.S. I think "troubled history" should be a term reserved for games like DNF and The Last Guardian. DC had/has some hiccups, but there is now a game and people are playing it and liking it.

Since when is a 1 year delay a "hiccup"?

 

[John Bender]

Digital Foundry: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph

DriveClub - the Digital Foundry verdict

There was a lot pressure on Evolution Studios to deliver a state-of-the-art flagship title that defined the PS4's next-generation credentials - a racing game that blurs the line between arcade and simulation while boasting the latest graphical features only possible on higher-end hardware. Despite some teething problems earlier in development, this is a feat that DriveClub manages to accomplish. Indeed, the game has benefitted from a remarkable makeover: from scrappy contender to visually polished technological showcase for PlayStation 4 hardware. The attention to detail and complex effects work is undeniably superb, while the handling model delivers an experience to suit both casual players and the more hardcore driving fans looking for something different from the likes of Gran Turismo or Forza Motorsport.

For all its rendering accomplishments, DriveClub is actually best viewed more as an evolution of an old-school arcade racing game, as opposed to a state-of-the-art simulation. In gameplay terms, the lack of open world exploration and use of fixed tracks may seem a little behind the times, but the use of carefully designed point-to-point routes and traditional tracks suit the social aspect of the game, which revolves around challenging other players while winning events to increase status for yourself and your club.

In that sense, DriveClub comes across as an updated take on the classic arcade racer, played out at a global level, with both competitive and collaborative gameplay at the very heart of the experience. The handling model makes the game easy to pick up and play, while the relentless AI on higher difficulty settings keeps single-player races interesting as you constantly battle to stay in first place.

Of course, while the game is finally on retail shelves this week, development of DriveClub is an on-going process, and we are promised a range of features in the coming months via post-launch updates. The first of these adds dynamic weather to the game, adding another layer of uncertainty to driving conditions while no doubt showcasing even more of Evolution's tech - something we'll take a look at in the near future. Photo and replay modes are also on their way.

It's fair to say that we had more fun with the game than Mike did in the Eurogamer review, but there are areas where we agree that the game falls a little short: the penalties and driving restrictions can sap the fun out of the most intense moments, and perhaps there is a lack of soul and charisma at the heart of the game. But for us, the combination of the arcade-style handling and the often beautiful visuals delivers an experience well worth checking out.

Meh... wrong thread

 

[terrier]

Who said I wasn´t interested?

you were, you played it and disliked it, that has been like that for a while, or at least is my impression from reading your posts. But as i said before, it is just my opinion.

These threads don't exist for fans to circle-jerk each other free from any dissenting opinions. That includes the OT.

of course not, but also don't exist for the opposite of fans do the same from the other side. Which is what turns out to be unfortunately most of the time, instead of being more qualitative threads. Just like the reviews, many of them lack quality, because some of the arguments used to justify the score are nonsense. I am sure nobody would be against a good review even if the score wasn't what you would like to be. But this is not the case. For most reviews, not all of course.

I´m still getting the PS+ version if that´s OK with you.

I just do not care,do whatever you want, really, my point is that it doesn't make sense (for me) that people who dislike or have no interest in a game to keep posting on that game's threads

 

[GlamFM]

you were, you played it and disliked it, that has been like that for a while, or at least is my impression from reading your posts. But as i said before, it is just my opinion.

I´m still getting the PS+ version if that´s OK with you.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Has Metacritic ever revealed how they weight reviews for their averages? Given almost all the reviews are >75, the few below it must get pretty heavily weighted to drag the overall score down that much.

http://www.metacritic.com/about-metascores

 

[Shaneus]

Also to shortly derail, i've been vocal in the past about Sony giving his devs too much freedom and them being all artsy with a tendency to be pompous and forget about simple fun. The order is taking the same exact road..

Yeah, I agree. We should have less straightforward racers like Driveclub and more open-world ones, because they're far simpler.

People comparing this to Horizon 2 is like people comparing Galaga to a Cave bullet-hell shooter. Both can be as immensely satisfying as each other, but for completely different reasons.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Digital Foundry: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

 

[nib95]

Hope for a better written review maybe



This encapsulates the problem with so many of the DriveClub reviews today. It's embarrassing that this is just the first paragraph, but the entire review is case after case of reviewing the game for what he wishes it was rather than what it actually is. In this paragraph, for example, he's not actually telling us why this so-called era of "arcade-to-simulation.. car upgrades" is inherently superior to the alternative, or why not having that impacts the game negatively. And he does not address that issue at any point in his review, in fact later going so far as to shamefully suggest that the lack of upgrades meant the game felt unfinished. This is an acceptable critical thought? This is the bullshit that passes muster these days? Instead, it's Jeff gleefully wishing right from the start that he was playing a completely different racing game with completely different goals, rather than evaluating DriveClub as it succeeds (or not) at its own unique racing goals.

DriveClub is a pure skill-based racer; it intentionally does not have those upgrades because it harkens to a time when racing games had no inhibition between the skill of the player and the competition on the road. There's no amount of hours you can play to earn an arbitrary upgrade to make your race ever-so-slightly better than the others around you. There's no skill bonus you get from playing 20 hours more than your next competitor. It's just your skills, your competitors and the finish line. And there's absolutely no reason why any reviewer worth their salt should be even implying that upgrades are now some necessary component of the genre. They're not. They're one specific path in the genre, of which we exist in an industry perfectly capable of having great entries in all types of racing games.

There are both positives and negatives to this design strategy, and the goal would be to discuss how exactly DriveClub mishandles this approach rather than wishing it chose goals which would make it a completely different racing game. These criticisms are from a position of someone who thinks it's his place to dismiss an entire subcategory of racing games simply because he's too daft to understand the many myriad of ways such things are positive. It's the very definition of lacking the ability to properly analyze a product, and this is his fucking job. He's reviewing from the premise that it's bad from the get go, because he feels since other racing games have upgrades, that means ones which don't feel empty or boring by comparison!

He ends his opening nonsense salvo with an attack of "old school" racing games, as if there was anything inherently negative with those. Some of the best racing games ever made are old school, and are as no-frills and no-bullshit as DriveClub.

So many of these game reviewers don't actually understand the concept of criticism.

Damn dude, great post.

 

[GlamFM]

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

I think that GT at least until the last one I played (think it was 4?) had soul while Forza (which i like a lot) has not.

I think I know what they mean.