Support NeoGAF

[Acquiescence]

Digital Foundry: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph



Meh... wrong thread

In gameplay terms, the lack of open world exploration and use of fixed tracks may seem a little behind the times

God almighty.

 

[ekim]

I haven't played DC yet but what I am most bummed about is how we haven't imo had a great racer this gen yet.

Forza 5 felt good but I think was more fitting of the term souless
FH2 feels just like FH1 to me and is not pulling me back in the same way the first game did.
DC appears to be relatively clunky and all over the place.

Looks like GT7 is my only hope

Maybe Project Cars? I agree with you on Forza 5 and FH2 - the latter misses the same kind of fascination that the first triggered but that's not the game's fault. We certainly knew what to expect. In this regards it delivers perfectly (for me). Still, I want to try out DC because the actual gameplay looks fun to me.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

Its the intangible quality that keeps you coming back to a game. I think its definitely a real thing despite how weird it might sound.

Its something lacking from the other 2 racers on the market and seems to be that way with DC (withholding judgement till I play it)

Maybe Project Cars? I agree with you on Forza 5 and FH2 - the latter misses the same kind of fascination that the first triggered but that's not the game's fault. We certainly knew what to expect. In this regards it delivers perfectly (for me). Still, I want to try out DC because the actual gameplay looks fun to me.

Yeah its not FH2's fault I guess I was just hoping for something a little more evolutionary from the first game.
I keep waiting for something to pull me away from Destiny but it hasn't happened yet.

PCars seems interesting but all the latest footage hasn't be so hot.

 

[Card Boy]

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

It exists in all media. Killzone and Resistance are examples of games devoid of soul. If you want a racing example then see Mario Kart. If a game with mascots isn't something you don't agree with then see games like Blur, Outrun, Forza, Split/Second.

 

[Phat Michael]

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

Id say its probably akin to something like atmosphere - like you cant really pin it down and its not really tangible. I havent played driveclub - but im guessing with Forza its the whole vibe of the festival, music and everything else going around aside the racing - this is all i can think it would be.

 

[GHG]

I think that GT at least until the last one I played (think it was 4?) had soul while Forza (which i like a lot) has not.

I think I know what they mean.

Define it then.

I'm seeing this term thrown around a lot lately but nobody seems to have a clue what they mean by it when they are saying it. Just because a game doesn't resonate well with you it doesn't make it "soulless".

I've even seem some reviews for Horizon 2 say this word.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Forza Motorsport has always been weirdly dry, found some charm in GT but couldn't put my finger on what it was.

Maybe just the mix of oddness, greatness and jank.

 

[Tmecha]

Wrong thread for this question I think.

sorry thought I was in the other DC thread.

 

[GlamFM]

Define it then.

I'm seeing this term thrown around a lot lately but nobody seems to have a clue what they mean by it when they are saying it. Just because a game doesn't resonate well with you it doesn't make it "soulless".

I've even seem some reviews for Horizon 2 say this word.

Maybe something like this:

Forza Motorsport has always been weirdly dry, found some charm in GT but couldn't put my finger on what it was.

Maybe just the mix of oddness, greatness and jank.

I would also add the horrible (I love it) Jazz soundtrack.

 

[boredandlazy]

God almighty.

That quote is fucking shameful.

 

[GHG]

Id say its probably akin to something like atmosphere - like you cant really pin it down and its not really tangible. I havent played driveclub - but im guessing with Forza its the whole vibe of the festival, music and everything else going around aside the racing - this is all i can think it would be.

Nah, EGM said its soulless too...

They offered a rarity in racing games: nemeses with personality and panache. Here, they’ve been replaced by nothing more than the Horizon organizer telling you how many more races you have to win to qualify for the finale. It becomes just a mundane, soulless countdown of championships—punctuated by the same, dull repetitive commentary—that starts to feel more and more like a grind as you move from region to region, choosing which of each area’s respective 28 championships you wish to take part in.

http://m.egmnow.com/articles/reviews/egm-review-forza-horizon-2/

Racing games have to have a story now, if not they are soulless.

But this is what happens when people who aren't interested in racing review racing games.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

After reading the reviews I am far less excited for the game now. Everyone just kept talking about the visuals which nobody can deny look awesome. Oh well, the only other game on the radar to get me to buy a PS4 is Bloodborn now because I have a feeling 1886: The Order is going to be all about graphics and not much else too.

 

[ekim]

Define it then.

I'm seeing this term thrown around a lot lately but nobody seems to have a clue what they mean by it when they are saying it. Just because a game doesn't resonate well with you it doesn't make it "soulless".

I've even seem some reviews for Horizon 2 say this word.

"Soul" in media/art like in movies/games is hard to define. For me, it's when that piece of media tricks you into fading out the fact that it is just a movie/game. It's when everything it does fits perfectly together and is done to complete the big picture the director/game designer intended and nothing drags you out of this experience. Ultimately it's subjective and in my opinion only few games and movies really have "soul".

 

[Empty]

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

something like ridge racer type four

the menus, music, overall aesthetic experience all ooze a singular style even if it's "just" ridge racer gameplay round pretty, for its time, tracks.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Maybe something like this:

I would also add the horrible (I love it) Jazz soundtrack.

Yeah, stuff like that actually does help give it some character. GT just does it's own thing.

 

[FeiRR]

Hope for a better written review maybe



This encapsulates the problem with so many of the DriveClub reviews today. It's embarrassing that this is just the first paragraph, but the entire review is case after case of reviewing the game for what he wishes it was rather than what it actually is. In this paragraph, for example, he's not actually telling us why this so-called era of "arcade-to-simulation.. car upgrades" is inherently superior to the alternative, or why not having that impacts the game negatively. And he does not address that issue at any point in his review, in fact later going so far as to shamefully suggest that the lack of upgrades meant the game felt unfinished. This is an acceptable critical thought? This is the bullshit that passes muster these days? Instead, it's Jeff gleefully wishing right from the start that he was playing a completely different racing game with completely different goals, rather than evaluating DriveClub as it succeeds (or not) at its own unique racing goals.

DriveClub is a pure skill-based racer; it intentionally does not have those upgrades because it harkens to a time when racing games had no inhibition between the skill of the player and the competition on the road. There's no amount of hours you can play to earn an arbitrary upgrade to make your race ever-so-slightly better than the others around you. There's no skill bonus you get from playing 20 hours more than your next competitor. It's just your skills, your competitors and the finish line. And there's absolutely no reason why any reviewer worth their salt should be even implying that upgrades are now some necessary component of the genre. They're not. They're one specific path in the genre, of which we exist in an industry perfectly capable of having great entries in all types of racing games.

There are both positives and negatives to this design strategy, and the goal would be to discuss how exactly DriveClub mishandles this approach rather than wishing it chose goals which would make it a completely different racing game. These criticisms are from a position of someone who thinks it's his place to dismiss an entire subcategory of racing games simply because he's too daft to understand the many myriad of ways such things are positive. It's the very definition of lacking the ability to properly analyze a product, and this is his fucking job. He's reviewing from the premise that it's bad from the get go, because he feels since other racing games have upgrades, that means ones which don't feel empty or boring by comparison!

He ends his opening nonsense salvo with an attack of "old school" racing games, as if there was anything inherently negative with those. Some of the best racing games ever made are old school, and are as no-frills and no-bullshit as DriveClub.

So many of these game reviewers don't actually understand the concept of criticism.

Very well put. What makes me sad is that the pressure of the so called gaming press is effective in forcing studios to produce more homogeneous pulp. I don't want just indies to be innovative in 5 years of this industry. I also want AAA games to break conventions and go back to oldschool gameplay. If this doesn't happen, almost every game will be an open-world storyless multiplayer shooter/racer shit soon. I will continue supporting devs which I think deserve it.

 

[Jimrpg]

It exists in all media. Killzone and Resistance are examples of games devoid of soul. If you want a racing example then see Mario Kart. If a game with mascots isn't something you don't agree with then see games like Blur, Outrun, Forza, Split/Second.

Blur is the very definition of lack of soul. The environments were bland, the gameplay was great but it was a very bizarre game with real cars and neon coloured weapons.

 

[Caramello]

If you enjoyed Need For Speed: Shift then you'll love DriveClub.

At least that's my take.

Not sure what reviewers were expecting from this.

 

[Shaneus]

yep, id agree with this.
played for about half hour. ive seen enoough

Shame, but that's exactly how I felt when playing TDU2. Even more shame being that it's basically the same devs. You'd think they'd have learned something by now.

Doesn't change the fact the AI seems shit. Opponents bump you out of nowhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dObkDk922Z8&t=1m45s

"fact"
"seems"

 

[JaggedSac]

Its 2014 folks, why do you care so much about reviews?

 

[anonymous_abc]

Its 2014 folks, why do you care so much about reviews?

We wouldn't but too many others do.

 

[terrier]

Nah, EGM said its soulless too...



Racing games have to have a story now, if not they are soulless.

But this is what happens when people who aren't interested in racing review racing games.

Strange times. I remember when i played Motorstorm Apocalypse and found the inclusion of a story mode just plain stupid (however i had a blast with the game though)
Racing, and winning AI or friends, or doing better ever time

 

[rich7sena]

Its 2014 folks, why do you care so much about reviews?

Because games are expensive. Like it or not, many rely on reviews to help them make purchasing decisions.

 

[JaggedSac]

We wouldn't but too many others do.

Ah, you're worried for the unwashed masses.

Because games are expensive. Like it or not, many rely on reviews to help them make purchasing decisions.

There are much better ways to determine if you will like a game or not. Or, you could find a reviewer who has similar sensibilities and only go to that person.

 

[Shaneus]

Its the intangible quality that keeps you coming back to a game. I think its definitely a real thing despite how weird it might sound.

Its something lacking from the other 2 racers on the market and seems to be that way with DC (withholding judgement till I play it)

It's not intangible in DC though. It's quite tangible, because it's the small goals from people on your friends list that drives one to take a corner better, push the car a little bit harder. Does it being tangible disqualify it from having "soul"?

 

[doomquake]

yeah...i agree with the open world criticism.

I mean its SO LAME when formula cars and lemans race on a FIXED track! they should just race wherever! fukit its 2014 ffs.

 

[Audioboxer]

God almighty.

Isn't it up to DF to focus on the tech side, not sure why they're spilling over into a personal mini-review...

Sometimes a part of the reason linearity exists is to allow graphics to be pushed further. But that's besides the point, it doesn't exist here as this is NOT an open world racer FFS.

 

[Nyx]

"fact"
"seems"

slowclap.gif

 

[olimpia84]

Its 2014 folks, why do you care so much about reviews?

They've been spot on as of late and they've saved me $120+ already (Watch Dogs and Destiny for example). I'm really glad major publications are not handing 10s and 9s to games just because they are high profile/high budgets/AAA; hopefully things stay that way.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Ah, you're worried for the unwashed masses.

Not first and foremost. But FeiRR puts it nicely.

Very well put. What makes me sad is that the pressure of the so called gaming press is effective in forcing studios to produce more homogeneous pulp. I don't want just indies to be innovative in 5 years of this industry. I also want AAA games to break conventions and go back to oldschool gameplay. If this doesn't happen, almost every game will be an open-world storyless multiplayer shooter/racer shit soon. I will continue supporting devs which I think deserve it.

 

[OléGunner]

God almighty.

Jesus Christ, it's almost like definitive proof reviewers simply wanted DC to be an open world racer for it to be GOOD. I just can't...

Anyways just a UK peasant here waiting for the Friday release..can't wait!

Edit:

Spoiler

Also, RIP RAPIER

 

[doomquake]

What Reviewers expected:

what they got:

so thats why all the complaints.

 

[Seanspeed]

Define it then.

I'm seeing this term thrown around a lot lately but nobody seems to have a clue what they mean by it when they are saying it. Just because a game doesn't resonate well with you it doesn't make it "soulless".

I've even seem some reviews for Horizon 2 say this word.

For me, it means an individual character. A game that doesn't feel like it was created with mathematical algorithms of what fun is supposed to be.

Reminds me kind of like Mclaren vs Ferrari. Mclaren build incredibly capable cars, but it feels like they try and 'science' their way into a great car. While Ferrari, who of course still build technically advanced cars, tend to be able to inject character and beauty into their machines far more effortlessly.

Its very hard to define it because that's kind of the point. It is often referred to as 'indefinable' quality, whether we're talking about a game, a car, or maybe even a person. Sometimes something just registers with you on a deeper level and hits those heart strings.

 

[brandonh83]

They've been spot on as of late and they've saved me $120+ already (Watch Dogs and Destiny for example). I'm really glad major publications are not handing 10s and 9s to games just because they are high profile/high budgets/AAA; hopefully things stay that way.

You could see Watch Dogs being mediocre from a mile away. As for Destiny, I've only played a little bit of it and it seemed fun, and most people that bitched about it still put in like 30 fucking hours. A friend of mine called me the other day complaining about the game after I expressed interest in picking it up soon, and he literally said "I've played it for about 40 hours, so I know how bad it is."

I agree that it's a good thing for not everything to receive sterling scores, but with Driveclub I do see in a lot of the writing and in communities that the game is beautiful and fun. However, reviewers are bashing it for idiotic shit like it not having an open world structure. I don't see how they're being "spot on" about this.

 

[rich7sena]

Ah, you're worried for the unwashed masses.



There are much better ways to determine if you will like a game or not. Or, you could find a reviewer who has similar sensibilities and only go to that person.

Aside from playing it, I don't really think there is. Even considering consumer reviews, they have a built in bias of wanting something they spend $60 on to be good. As much as everyone wants to believe reviewers are hell-bent on bashing your favorite game on your favorite console, that's simply not the case.

I use reviews to help me gauge a game's worth. Is it a day one game or can I wait a few months for it be become a lot cheaper. In Driveclub's case, by the time I'd even consider purchasing it, it will have a lot more content and be cheaper.

 

[GlamFM]

What Reviewers expected:

*unfunny stuff*

so thats why all the complaints.

cringeworthy

 

[-MB-]

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

It's like the "doesn't look lived in" argument that was leveled against A Link Between Worlds.
a BS argument that is intangible.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Its 2014 folks, why do you care so much about reviews?

You got it. It's subjectively important to some.

 

[JaggedSac]

Not first and foremost. But FeiRR puts it nicely.

I think there are many more factors involved into why big budget games are becoming homogenized pulp.

 

[OléGunner]

It exists in all media. Killzone and Resistance are examples of games devoid of soul. If you want a racing example then see Mario Kart. If a game with mascots isn't something you don't agree with then see games like Blur, Outrun, Forza, Split/Second.

Woah there buddy! Killzone 2 and 3 definitely have tons of soul for me lol. So does Resistance 1 and 3. Sorry I just really like KZ series and find it weird people say it's soulless.

Maybe we should create a Soul Index to be used for all games and have science determine levels of soul in games for us...hmmmm

 

[olimpia84]

I agree that it's a good thing for not everything to receive sterling scores, but with Driveclub I do see in a lot of the writing and in communities that the game is beautiful and fun. However, reviewers are bashing it for idiotic shit like it not having an open world structure. I don't see how they're being "spot on" about this.

The open world thing does seem like a silly complain. However there are a couple worrying cons on gameplay as well which is what matters to me. Regardless, I'll be playing the free version (whenever it comes out...) and obviously decide if I purchase the game based on my time with it.

 

[anonymous_abc]

I think there are many more factors involved into why big budget game are becoming homogenized pulp.

No question.
No one is saying it's the only or even the main reason.
But let us not pretend that review scores have no influence on sales and commercial success. And thusly in what is offered by the industry in future.

 

[derFeef]

what the fuck is soul in a circuit racer? should the cars say cute things?

PGR series.

 

[Audioboxer]

Its 2014 folks, why do you care so much about reviews?

Gamers shouldn't personally as much. But when industry folks livelihood is on the line at times, it's sometimes hard not to get a bit riled up on their behalf.

 

[THEaaron]

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Its 2014 folks, why do you care so much about reviews?

Ultimately reviews affect developer payout and sales which affects studio survival, indirectly low-ball reviewers are essentially fucking evolution over if you believe they have put out a good product, if they put out a piece of shit, that's fair enough but from my experience and from other people's experience with it this might not be the case at all and it's sad.

 

[Sendou]

Gamers shouldn't personally as much. But when industry folks livelihood is on the line at times, it's sometimes hard not to get a bit riled up on their behalf.

Gamers are considerate like that. Brings a tear to my eye.

 

[brandonh83]

The open world thing does seem like a silly complain. However there are a couple worrying cons on gameplay as well which is what matters to me. Regardless, I'll be playing the free version (whenever it comes out...) and obviously decide if I purchase the game based on my time with it.

It really is a bummer that they couldn't get the free version out quicker. =\

 

[OléGunner]

Ha! I lol'd

 

[driver116]

PGR series.

On the contrary I think the PGR games lack soul compared to MSR.