[Extreme Grain of Salt] Moore's Law is Dead claims that Microsoft is (At Least Partially) Killing Backward Compatibility for Xbox One for Next-Gen

Astray

Astray

Member
1st I will preface this with saying that you should take this with an extreme, extreme grain of salt because he's been extremely hit and miss as a leaker. I even added it to the thread title.

Video link is time-stamped to go directly into the segment, but I'm still listening to whole thing during work, and might drop some other stuff here as I go:


EDIT: Adding my notes as I go here:

1:30:09: Holy shit, devs could go as far as suing MS if they put their Xbox game on a PC.
 
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Will there even be another Xbox console? Stay tuned!
 
Good, likely means newer and better chip architecture. I never gave a fuck about BC. It holds newer hardware and games back. I buy a brand new console to play brand new games and experiences. I don't give a fuck about games I bought and played a while ago.
 
Radical_3d said:
I doubt it. The only reason for that would be a change to ARM instructions and if so it'd be more difficult to emulate Series than One.
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It's not CPU instructions. Them going with AMD confirms this because AMD afaik doesn't do ARM chip designs.

Now I'm not done with the podcast so the following is my initial conjecture that could be wrong: It's licensing issues.

Lots of large publishers don't want to sign into the PlayAnywhere programs, thus any Xbox games if theirs can't legally be allowed to play on the Xbox PC sub-platform. This is because they either have their own launchers that they'd rather you buy or sub to their games on, or they want to sell you on double-dipping on the PC version on whatever storefront they sell on.
 
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Astray said:
It's not CPU instructions. Them going with AMD confirms this because AMD afaik doesn't do ARM chip designs.

Now I'm not done with the podcast so the following is my initial conjecture that could be wrong: It's licensing issues.

Lots of large publishers don't want to sign into the PlayAnywhere programs, thus any Xbox games if theirs can't legally be allowed to play on the Xbox PC sub-platform. This is because they either have their own

launchers that they'd rather you buy or sub to their games on, or they want to sell you on double-dipping on the PC version on whatever storefront they sell on.
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I think you nailed it.
 
I don't expect 100% PS4 BC with PS6, btw.

Licensing is potentially an issue with XBox PC but I would think publishers would be concerned more about Series games.
 
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Wasn't full backwards compatibility confirmed in the Xbox Wire announcement? This is a non-issue, and it's probably referring to partner devices that don't run on Xbox's new custom chips. Xbox are working on a shader translation/emulation solution to cover those devices.
 
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Astray said:
1st I will preface this with saying that you should take this with an extreme, extreme grain of salt because he's been extremely hit and miss as a leaker. I even added it to the thread title.

Video link is time-stamped to go directly into the segment, but I'm still listening to whole thing during work, and might drop some other stuff here as I go:


EDIT: Adding my notes as I go here:

1:30:09: Holy shit, devs could go as far as suing MS if they put their Xbox game on a PC.
Click to expand...

julianne moore GIF
 
memoryman3 said:
Wasn't full backwards compatibility confirmed in the Xbox Wire announcement? This is a non-issue, and it's probably referring to partner devices that don't run on Xbox's new custom chips. Xbox are working on a shader translation/emulation solution to cover those devices.
Click to expand...
Of course you'd go and reference things from 3 weeks ago, "memory"man.
 
memoryman3 said:
Wasn't full backwards compatibility confirmed in the Xbox Wire announcement? This is a non-issue, and it's probably referring to partner devices that don't run on Xbox's new custom chips. Xbox are working on a shader translation/emulation solution to cover those devices.
Click to expand...
That's cute. After all the lies they have told we still have gullible people who believe anything Microsoft/Xbox says.,

I just don't get it.
 
REDRZA MWS said:
Good, likely means newer and better chip architecture. I never gave a fuck about BC. It holds newer hardware and games back. I buy a brand new console to play brand new games and experiences. I don't give a fuck about games I bought and played a while ago.
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your insane. I could accept the new xbox not running xbox one games. But no running SX games would be a joke
 
Radical_3d said:
I doubt it. The only reason for that would be a change to ARM instructions and if so it'd be more difficult to emulate Series than One.
Click to expand...
Would it really though. Xbox is more or less an overlay over Windows.

You have Xbox, Xbox 360 and partially Xbox One emulation on PC. I doubt Microsoft wouldn't be able to do it when some hobbyists are doing it.

Also, one of the only advantages Xbox has over playstation is the backward compatibility program. Would be insane to ditch it.
 
I've been thinking that the licensing for third party games would be an issue for this Xbox PC ever since it was announced.


Jaybe said:
Has there been any speculation on how people that have purchased third party games on their Xbox Series consoles in that ecosystem, will be able to play their purchases on this rumored Xbox branded PC? I think they have two hurdles to cross, one being the technical aspect and the other likely more challenging one being the licensing aspect. Publishers needed to agree to allow 360 backwards compatibility on a game by game basis. Would not the same situation apply here? If you have Resident Evil 4 Remake and GTA6 purchased on your Xbox Series X, what guarantee is there for gamers that the same purchase will allow them to play on this Xbox branded PC? Seems like something I haven't seen addressed.
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Wonder if that would make it because of a switch to ARM. Why else would they break compatibility. If it's x86 it's likely still an AMD APU unless Intel made a very aggressive offer.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
IF they get it working it would almost have to be a dual boot system no?

Way above my pay grade
Click to expand...

I've said this multiple times before, but from a legal perspective it's the only thing that makes sense.

One "legacy" xbox OS mode, and one "Xbox PC" mode.
 
Why doesn't Nintendo have issues with Switch 2 then ? Because it is not emulation either. Games do not need to be licensed again for Switch 2 ?
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
IF they get it working it would almost have to be a dual boot system no?

Way above my pay grade
Click to expand...

You could have the XBox mode run in virtualization/something like Hyper-V perhaps. Like a Virtual Machine.

I expect this to only be available on PCs with the MS Semi Custon chip. But it's possible that it gets hacked I guess.
 
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This wouldn't surprise me if it ends up being the case, my Xbox library on PC is a fraction of what it is on my One X so not as many publishers opted in to 'Play Anywhere' for Xbox One at least as folk would have you believe
 
GHG said:
I've said this multiple times before, but from a legal perspective it's the only thing that makes sense.

One "legacy" xbox OS mode, and one "Xbox PC" mode.
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It's either one of the two from an existing Xbox consumer POV:

- Access to Steam/EGS/etc + PlayAnywhere titles from your existing library.
- Access to all of your existing library, but no PC storefront access (because that would make it a PC and would violate whatever licensing terms they had in place).
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
Which then begs the question does it play games like GTA6 day one AND run games from stores like Steam
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If they are going with some kind of dual chip design then the should be no reason why it wouldn't play all Xbox series games.

cireza said:
Why doesn't Nintendo have issues with Switch 2 then ? Because it is not emulation either. Games do not need to be licensed again for Switch 2 ?
Click to expand...

Console to console emulation is a lot more straightforward from a legal perspective than any attempt at an official console to PC emulator.

From a publishers perspective they would rather people repurchase the PC version of the same game, so it's very much in their interest to block this kind of thing from happening.
 
GHG said:
If they are going with some kind of dual chip design then the should be no reason why it wouldn't play all Xbox series games.



Console to console emulation is a lot more straightforward from a legal perspective than any attempt at an official console to PC emulator.

From a publishers perspective they would rather people repurchase the PC version of the same game, so it's very much in their interest to block this kind of thing from happening.
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So a console that has other store fronts
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
IF they get it working it would almost have to be a dual boot system no?

Way above my pay grade
Click to expand...

Dual booting does not give you ANY legal leeway to run native Series X code on a Windows PC, at which point it's basically Series X emulation on PC.

If you brute force running GTA6 on this new Xbox PC, Rockstar and Take-Two will sue you to oblivion for messing up their PC plans without consent or prior notice.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
So a console that has other store fronts
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Calling a dual boot PC a "console" is a stretch. But I can absolutely see them attempting to market whatever this frankenstein of a machine ends up being as a "console", which will only lead to more confusion.
 
REDRZA MWS said:
Good, likely means newer and better chip architecture. I never gave a fuck about BC. It holds newer hardware and games back. I buy a brand new console to play brand new games and experiences. I don't give a fuck about games I bought and played a while ago.
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Its not a popular opinion in this shores but I definitely agree with you .. it always amazed me this fight for BC ... for modern games I could easily understand because we are in diminishing returns times and most games barely evolved since last gen. Anyway I think like you.. dont care about BC at all.
 
Gamer_By_Proxy said:
I think the Series consoles are going to be the last consoles that play Xbox coded games. They'll just be PC/"play anywhere" going forward.
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I think the XBox PC (with the semi custom chip) would be a one gen thing to help transition current Series owners.
 
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GHG said:
Console to console emulation is a lot more straightforward from a legal perspective than any attempt at an official console to PC emulator.
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Where are the legal terms that define which is a console and is what is a pc that would make it more straightforward?
 
hemo memo said:
That would be stupid.
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Nothing they can do if devs won't agree to extend the existing Xbox license terms to Xbox PC.

asdasdasdbb said:
I don't expect 100% PS4 BC with PS6, btw.

Licensing is potentially an issue with XBox PC but I would think publishers would be concerned more about Series games.
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If it's a straight console like the last one then %100 backcompat should be expected, same as PS4>PS5 and Switch>Switch2. There would be nothing that legally blocks a game from playing on the new machines, so there the challenge is only technical.

Here the challenge is not only technical (which is surmountable with enough $$$, effort and time), it's also legal. And even throwing money at the problem wouldn't necessarily work either.
 
Guardian Monkey said:
Where are the legal terms that define which is a console and is what is a pc that would make it more straightforward?
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We don't know exactly, but I assume that it would be something that pertains to consoles being a specialized computer device vs being a general computing device.

Moriarty1889 said:
They just said the next console will have full BC at the hardware level.
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I wouldn't trust them with anything tbh. These execs run their mouths all year long and constantly self-contradict.

But there's nothing that says you have to trust MLID either..
 
Astray said:
We don't know exactly, but I assume that it would be something that pertains to consoles being a specialized computer device vs being a general computing device.


I wouldn't trust them with anything tbh. These execs run their mouths all year long and constantly self-contradict.

But there's nothing that says you have to trust MLID either..
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MLiD has a ton of misses and literally says in his video "trust me bro" plus Xbox execs straight up lie
 
Guardian Monkey said:
Where are the legal terms that define which is a console and is what is a pc that would make it more straightforward?
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Consoles are closed boxes running proprietary closed systems and not open systems, but Im sure that while making a game for consoles when you sign the deals, the BC is included in the contract or you cant make the game for that console. At this point is probably a mandatory clause and not a optinonal one like "play anywhere".

Problem is this clause wont cover putting that same game on open boxes with multiple store fronts.
 
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