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[Branduil]

On the contrary, I find it is statements like "People like what they like" that tend to shut down critical discussion. It denies the possibility of arguing over the relative merits of works of art by implying that any old thing is just as good as another. If everything is subjective, there is no point in discussing anything beyond whether something happens to make you happy or sad or whatever. It is by acknowledging the existence of universal standards, even if we disagree on what those standards might be, that we allow for discussion and debate over how works fulfill or do not fulfill those standards.

 

[Crash Station]

On the contrary, I find it is statements like "People like what they like" that tend to shut down critical discussion. It denies the possibility of arguing over the relative merits of works of art by implying that any old thing is just as good as another. If everything is subjective, there is no point in discussing anything beyond whether something happens to make you happy or sad or whatever.

That would be the other extreme, which isn't entirely what I mean. Discussion should be welcome, but I'm saying it shouldn't lead to undermining the opinions of the proponents or detractors. Not quite to the point of prefacing every argument with "IMO", but enough to make an effort to understand the opposition.

It is by acknowledging the existence of universal standards, even if we disagree on what those standards might be, that we allow for discussion and debate over how works fulfill or do not fulfill those standards.

I don't entirely disagree, but I don't think I'd word it quite like that. Disagreeing on what those standards might be is fine, but calling something a "universal standard" just sounds like there's very little wiggle room to me. When there are so many mediums of expression out there and contradictory standards across each when it comes down to genres and sub-genres and all that nonsense, it's hard to assign any kind of all-encompassing "value" to any given point of discussion. Standards evolve (or regress depending on who you ask and about what).

But this may be a semantics debate, I don't know.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Rage of Bahamut 11

I agree, I still find the show very enjoyable and I wouldn't call it disappointing at all.
It's not my AOTS anymore though

 

[R_thanatos]

Natsume Yuujinchou LaLa_ Nyanko-sensei to Hajimete no Otsukai - Special

I haven't laughed this hard at a running gag in a while.

So naynko sensei get separated from natsueme and out of goodwill find those 2 kids lost in the forest and decide to help them. This trigger a set of events where we get to see everyone in their daily lives as natsume looks for nyanko and nyanko looks for a way to escape his current situation.

You don't say , the hardest job of all.

Taking care of kids is a tough job , especially when you're not an human. Well the episode works despite some cheaps shots thank to the cast that you get to see at each scene and how desperate the protagonist was. It's a nice special.

Well understanding between human and youkai is a tough job.

So , well ... Where is my season 5 ? who do i have to beg ?

 

[Haly]

Will we ever see the likes of Hyouka again?

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

That would be the other extreme, which isn't entirely what I mean. Discussion should be welcome, but I'm saying it shouldn't lead to undermining the opinions of the proponents or detractors. Not quite to the point of prefacing every argument with "IMO", but enough to make an effort to understand the opposition.

I will agree with you that understanding where the person with whom you're discussing is coming from is beneficial for an ideal discussion. But understanding what thought processes led them to form their opinions doesn't mean you stop finding fault with those thought processes.

 

[Crocodile]

I think what's important to keep in mind is that something can be enjoyable, even very much so, and still be subpar under a variety of parameters under a critical eye (direction, writing, animation, etc.). People only need be able to articulate why they like something and be cognizant of the flaws in the works they like rather than try to ignore them or excuse them (though it will likely be impossible to remove subjectivity completely out of the equation).

On another note I just saw the new Yatterman art. Did they really have to make new Dorojono a loli? Goddamnit Japan :/ At least people are saying the PV looks good (I can't watch it now)?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't necessarily disagree with your first point but you REALLY love to drive home "All AnimeGAF wants is Cowboy Bebop clones" point don't you Maybe you aren't actually looking for nuanced discussion but it certainly is going to be hard to find if you insist on such generalizations

Well many times more people really want to drive home the point that every anime is derivative, features too many characters who are not adults, aren't making rational decisions, too "shonen" whatever that means, etc. Its not really different. Its fine to not like things, but hearing the same exact criticism of things you're just hate-watching in the first place gets pretty tiring fast.

 

[Rainy]

Aldnoah Zero 10

Setting up for an interesting last two episodes.

 

[Branduil]

Will we ever see the likes of Hyouka again?

Not unless Yonezawa decides to finally write more.

 

[Dresden]

Will we ever see the likes of Hyouka again?

They can always adapt more KEY.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Bahamut probably could've work better in 25 episodes. Then we can have both the standalone nakama episodes and angels vs demons vs bahamut arcs.

It isnt 25?!

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Natsume Yuujinchou LaLa_ Nyanko-sensei to Hajimete no Otsukai - Special


I haven't laughed this hard at a running gag in a while.

So naynko sensei get separated from natsueme and out of goodwill find those 2 kids lost in the forest and decide to help them. This trigger a set of events where we get to see everyone in their daily lives as natsume looks for nyanko and nyanko looks for a way to escape his current situation.

Taking care of kids is a tough job , especially when you're not an human. Well the episode works despite some cheaps shots thank to the cast that you get to see at each scene and how desperate the protagonist was. It's a nice special.



So , well ... Where is my season 5 ? who do i have to beg ?

Oh hey new special! Awesome! I'll be watching it whenever I get a chance.

Also what do I have to do to make people in this thread stop watching shitty shows and watch this?

 

[Dresden]

It's one thing when people are being aggressive assholes about it, but you can't help those who get hurt over critical assessment of things they like just because they like it and they feel that an unfavorable view of it is an attack on their tastes and on themselves. I think much of the usual furor over the 'why hate' stuff stems from that for the most part.

Also, just to note, if I don't like something, and you like that thing, I hate you.

 

[Crocodile]

Well many times more people really want to drive home the point that every anime is derivative, features too many characters who are not adults, aren't making rational decisions, too "shonen" whatever that means, etc. Its not really different. Its fine to not like things, but its boring hearing the same exact criticism of things you're just hate-watching in the first place gets pretty tiring fast.

It feels like you're conflating a whole lot of different people with different perspectives and tastes making critiques into some "AnimeGaf hivemind". Is this about one show or several shows? If multiple people have have similar complaints about the same show, maybe....just maybe, the show has those issues? Do you just wish people could articulate themselves better? Should nobody say anything bad about a show they are watching? There is a difference between hatewatching (which people are allowed to do) and watching a show but having issues whilst enjoying other aspects of it/hoping it improves/or being so invested time-wise that you see it all the way through (sunk cost fallacy at work).

 

[nintendoman58]

Accel World - 10

Spoiler

So the whole "Chrome Disaster" thing was all a trap planned out by the Yellow King? Eh, it's still two level 9s to one level 9. Despite the enemy having the upper hand against the main characters in terms of numbers I'd say they have a pretty even chance.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

It's one thing when people are being aggressive assholes about it, but you can't help those who get hurt over critical assessment of things they like just because they like it and they feel that an unfavorable view of it is an attack on their tastes and on themselves. I think much of the usual furor over the 'why hate' stuff stems from that for the most part.

Also, just to note, if I don't like something, and you like that thing, I hate you.

 

[R_thanatos]

Inou Battle - 12

Season 2 when ?

The only good thing about this way the events unfolded is that now everyone is trully on the starting line.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

The only issue that I have with "objective standards" is that they frequently are used not as a tool for some kind of thoughtful/critical analysis but more often to debase others for enjoying something that you clearly do not. It's not uncommon for supposedly critical reviews to contain allusions to mental deficiency among other things on part of those who don't share the same opinion that they do.

I'm all for discussion, but not when it's used as a tool for boosting the ego of someone who bases their superiority over others on their choice of animated television programs.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It feels like you're conflating a whole lot of different people with different perspectives and tastes making critiques into some "AnimeGaf hivemind". Is this about one show or several shows? If multiple people have have similar complaints about the same show, maybe....just maybe, the show has those issues? Do you just wish people could articulate themselves better? Should nobody say anything bad about a show they are watching? There is a difference between hatewatching (which people are allowed to do) and watching a show but having issues whilst enjoying other aspects of it/hoping it improves/or being so invested time-wise that you see it all the way through (sunk cost fallacy at work).

It wasn't a question of what people are "allowed" to do, that's just kind of a tangent. I'm not really sure to go with the slippery slope "nobody say anything bad about a show they are watching" thing.

 

[Rainy]

Aldnoah Zero 11

Spoiler

Why was Eddelrittuo driving the van? LOL She looks like she's 5. Also Rayet sure redeemed herself fast, too fast imo. Also Inaho just seems too smart, it's not even fair!

 

[Kvik]

It isnt 25?!

My Hummingbird says 12 only :-\

 

[Crocodile]

It wasn't a question of what people are "allowed" to do, that's just kind of a tangent. I'm not really sure to go with the slippery slope "nobody say anything bad about a show they are watching" thing.

I'm just trying to get to the heart of the matter of your posts. It seems you are calling out the "AnimeGaf hivemind" (I'm always wary of cries of hiveminds) and have issue with the sort of critiques some people are levying against some show(s) and feel people would best be served not watching/dropping any show they levy such critiques against (you mention hate watching). Have I misunderstood something you said?

 

[Quasar]

Natsume Yuujinchou LaLa_ Nyanko-sensei to Hajimete no Otsukai - Special


I haven't laughed this hard at a running gag in a while.

So naynko sensei get separated from natsueme and out of goodwill find those 2 kids lost in the forest and decide to help them. This trigger a set of events where we get to see everyone in their daily lives as natsume looks for nyanko and nyanko looks for a way to escape his current situation.

Taking care of kids is a tough job , especially when you're not an human. Well the episode works despite some cheaps shots thank to the cast that you get to see at each scene and how desperate the protagonist was. It's a nice special.

So , well ... Where is my season 5 ? who do i have to beg ?

I dunno. I hoped it would playout like Mushishi in that regard.

 

[nintendoman58]

Accel World - 11

This show suddenly turned up the Smash Bros. intensity level to 9.0.

Actually, that's a pretty apt comparison. You gotta some points to enter in this mode of Brain Burst, and you lose some points if your avatar ends up getting killed there.

But man oh man this episode was full of that high-tension one feels when playing Smash Bros. Classic on 9.0. Seriously, the fighting in this episode was awesome, and

Spoiler

oh man that twist at the end of this episode. Looks like the Chrome Disaster thing wasn't fake news after all.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Can't we all just go back to calling each others anime shit and knowing we aren't completely serious?

 

[GrandHusk]

Inou Battle ep 9

Everyone love Andou, it was inevitable, it was destiny,

Spoiler

it was obvious from the start.

I have to give credit to Hatoko

Ice cold and in front of Tomoyo
It had impact!

what's with Andou awaken power? everyone was worried but nobody said what happened after he activated

This is just cruel

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm just trying to get to the heart of the matter of your posts. It seems you are calling out the "AnimeGaf hivemind" (I'm always wary of cries of hiveminds) and have issue with the sort of critiques some people are levying against some show(s) and feel people would best be served not watching/dropping any show they levy such critiques against (you mention hate watching). Have I misunderstood something you said?

Here's the thing: it seems you're really into the idea of pegging me with this "hivemind" thing so you apparently give me a pre-prepared spiel on it. I don't want to play.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

YuYu Hakusho 29-30

Man, Yusuke's going to fight with his Not Greased Up hair. I'm honestly more surprised that hairstyle appeared more than I thought.

In any case

Spoiler

Kuwabara's fight was dumb :l

 

[Jintor]

Well many times more people really want to drive home the point that every anime is derivative, features too many characters who are not adults, aren't making rational decisions, too "shonen" whatever that means, etc. Its not really different. Its fine to not like things, but hearing the same exact criticism of things you're just hate-watching in the first place gets pretty tiring fast.

But it's like complaining about AAA games or mainstream TV/movies or something. The criticisms come frequently because, often, the criticisms remain true.

 

[Dresden]

I don't want to play.

then stop posting about it

 

[TUSR]

Inou Battle ep 9
This is just cruel

Don't worry. Andou's power gets explained and Mirei gets her spotlight back.

Inou Battle - 12

Season 2 when ?

The only good thing about this way the events unfolded is that now everyone is trully on the starting line.

Never* but it's setup for a S2. Nothing too considerable has be affected from Trigger's ending.

 

[Hellsing321]

Can't we all just go back to calling each others anime shit and knowing we aren't completely serious?

I'm always completely serious when I call your favorite anime shit.

 

[Link Man]

Rage of Bahamut 11

Everyone's expressing a lot of disappointment right now, and I don't really get why.

I mean, I know I would have liked it to be Favaro and Amira's fun, light adventures in fantasyland, but it was clear that wasn't going to happen about four episodes ago. I've accepted that. It's a 12 episode series that has to close the loop on the things it set up in episode 1, and instead of blowing it all up out of nowhere, it's been gradually drawing everything together until it reached this point.

So maybe it's a little disappointing that it isn't as delightful as it was at the start, but the strengths of those early episodes remain present here. It's briskly paced, it doesn't waste the viewer's time explaining what can be inferred and lets characters' actions speak for themselves, and it's full of silly fantasy stuff. I wish a few things had a bit more time to breathe in this episode (particularly

Spoiler

Kaisar shooting Favaro in the chest

), but I like how they set up the low point leading us to the end of the episode. How will our heroes succeed at this most desperate hour? Even knowing how things have to go in a tale like this, I'm excited to find out, because the show's creators are executing at a pretty high level.

It'll be really awesome if the budget comes back in full force for the finale.

Except in this episode alone, it needed to use flashbacks for events that happened mere minutes ago. Wasteful use of time and shows contempt for the viewer.

 

[PK Gaming]

AnimeGAF is literally that comic continually looping, 24/7

 

[Angry Grimace]

then stop posting about it

If you're going to tell me not to discuss it, that's fine by me, but its not that I don't want to have a discussion about it, its that I don't think its fair to insist on using the loaded term "hivemind." I don't think that's what it is.

But it's like complaining about AAA games or mainstream TV/movies or something. The criticisms come frequently because, often, the criticisms remain true.

Yeah, but do you buy games you don't like?

 

[jbug617]

I never watched Hyouka.

 

[Rainy]

Aldnoah Zero 12 [END]

Spoiler

Goddamn I was half expecting the princess to die but Inaho too? That's some crazy shit. I knew I would hate Slaine by the end of this season. I guess he is going to be the main character for the second cour.

The show was good, not great, and was entertaining enough. Really loved the battle animations and music. Some of the characters were pretty annoying...(Inaho's constant genius and Rayet) but its okay.

I'll watch S2.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

AnimeGAF is literally that comic continually looping, 24/7

Aldnoah Zero 12 [END]

Spoiler

Goddamn I was half expecting the princess to die but Inaho too? That's some crazy shit. I knew I would hate Slaine by the end of this season. I guess he is going to be the main character for the second cour.

About that....

 

[Gazoinks]

War In The Pocket 1

MERRRRY MECHMAS

So between my Gundam friend telling me to watch more Gundam, and that one thread in OT, I thought I should finally get around to watching this thing!

Very strong first episode. It did a good job of establishing the romanticization of kids who know there's a war going on, but aren't close enough to the war to know that's a bad thing. The use of kids as protagonists really emphasizes how small a civilian is compared to these dudes flying around in giant robots smashing stuff up. Bonus points for the kids actually being likable.

This soundtrack, though... Might be a little too 80s for me. Why is the OP so cheerful?!

Oh, and that opening battle was awesome.

 

[Crocodile]

Here's the thing: it seems you're really into the idea of pegging me with this "hivemind" thing so you apparently give me a pre-prepared spiel on it. I don't want to play.

You said:

Its not like nerd clique hierarchy BS doesn't exist even on AnimeGAF. A few pages back someone was legit confused that UBW and Parasyte were on the top of the ANN poll. This is because AnimeGAF has a tendency to be an echo-chamber, particularly about anything popular, so people are legitimately out-of-touch with what the larger community thinks.

Its just internet anime guy who thinks everyone wants all anime to be clones of Cowboy Bebop and have nothing but adults in it making super serious rational decisions all the time. Trust me, someone in the very near future will post how much Fate/Naruto/AoT/Sword Art is ruining everything with pandering shonen nonsense they don't like. That IS nerd clique hierarchy BS.

How else am I supposed to interpret that when you call the thread an echo chamber or everybody here wants Cowboy Bebop clones? BTW I don't think anyone actually has difficulty understanding that shows that many don't like here are popular elsewhere - see Sword Art Online Does the mere word "hivemind" bother you?

At the end of the day, generally speaking:

But it's like complaining about AAA games or mainstream TV/movies or something. The criticisms come frequently because, often, the criticisms remain true.

which of course doesn't mean they can't be enjoyable or what not but *shrug*

 

[Clov]

When it comes to the current discussion, I don't have much to say that hasn't been said already. I think that critical discussion of anime is important, since it helps us in multiple ways; it can provide interesting interpretations of a work, and outline aspects of it that are done well (or poorly). Given this, I do thing that there are some standards that we can judge works by. There's a reason we can tell when an anime is just plain awful!

These standards naturally vary from person to person, and that's fine! People like different things. At the same time, even if a work is flawed, there's nothing wrong with liking a flawed work. There's no need to get upset when someone points out the flaws in something you like, since you can enjoy a show just fine in spite of them (or if you're watching something really terrible, because of them). Nothing wrong with that.

On a different note, just watched the first episode of Bubblegum Crisis off the BDs I got. Enjoyed the first episode. Soundtrack is pretty awesome.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You said:



How else am I supposed to interpret that when you call the thread an echo chamber or everybody here wants Cowboy Bebop clones? BTW I don't think anyone actually has difficulty understanding that shows that many don't like here are popular elsewhere - see Sword Art Online Does the mere word "hivemind" bother you?

At the end of the day, generally speaking:



which of course doesn't mean they can't be enjoyable or what not but *shrug*

Yes, it does because on GAF, at least, that term is loaded into "invalid thing that gets you banned."

 

[Crocodile]

Yeah, but do you buy games you don't like?

I already explained this: "There is a difference between hatewatching (which people are allowed to do) and watching a show but having issues whilst enjoying other aspects of it/hoping it improves/or being so invested time-wise that you see it all the way through (sunk cost fallacy at work)."

 

[Admiral Woofington]

About that....

LAWL. Is there more of this comic about anime? Would love to read it.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

War In The Pocket 1

MERRRRY MECHMAS

So between my Gundam friend telling me to watch more Gundam, and that one thread in OT, I thought I should finally get around to watching this thing!

Very strong first episode. It did a good job of establishing the romanticization of kids who know there's a war going on, but aren't close enough to the war to know that's a bad thing. The use of kids as protagonists really emphasizes how small a civilian is compared to these dudes flying around in giant robots smashing stuff up. Bonus points for the kids actually being likable.

This soundtrack, though... Might be a little too 80s for me. Why is the OP so cheerful?!

Oh, and that opening battle was awesome.

Good to see more people watching the best Christmas anime.

LAWL. Is there more of this comic about anime? Would love to read it.

One of the best webcomics around
This should be in the OP of every thread really

 

[Angry Grimace]

I already explained this: "There is a difference between hatewatching (which people are allowed to do) and watching a show but having issues whilst enjoying other aspects of it/hoping it improves/or being so invested time-wise that you see it all the way through (sunk cost fallacy at work)."

I'm not sure I understand how that relates to that particular analogy, though. Really, I don't even have a problem with hatewatching so as long there's a unique perspective involved or a really good reason to do it. But this is pretty far afield of the original discussion, which was mostly just that there's different levels of clique-iness, even within a niche genre like anime.

I'll admit I'm having a tough time putting this into words. I just feel some people are dead-set on not liking things to the point of watching them so they can remind us that they don't.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Good to see more people watching the best Christmas anime.

Tokyo Godfathers is the best Christmas anime. But War in the Pocket is really good too.

 

[Rainy]

About that....

I just saw the AZ thread. LOL at this show.

Spoiler

Still gonna watch though.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Tokyo Godfathers is the best Christmas anime. But War in the Pocket is really good too.

I forgot to include it as the exception this time ):