Support NeoGAF

[mjemirzian]

I assume people who dislike grinding dislike how repetitive it is. A lot of FFXIIIs levels are insanely long and repetitive, it might as well be grinding.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Most random encounters are over in under a minute until you hit ch 11-13 and start running into the larger enemies with more HP.. at which point they take 2-3 mins depending on how much ch11 grinding you did.

The scoring system is irrelevant. It's a number that is determined by some formula every battle; the value is not used, saved, or utilized in any metric beyond the determination of which pixels to use to display said number.

The star ranking system is based solely on time. The scoring system is useless.

FFXIII's scoring system is easily undermined by grinding or using overpowered shrouds, but that doesn't mean it can be ignored or disregarded in a review. Scoring systems should be analyzed and reviewed like every other part of a game. I think adding a scoring system is a good idea for any RPG. The scoring system is not worthless because 'it's based solely on time' or 'because it has little effect on the game', it's worthless because the scoring results can be undermined by grinding/shrouds.

 

[PNT510]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Most random encounters are over in under a minute until you hit ch 11-13 and start running into the larger enemies with more HP.. at which point they take 2-3 mins depending on how much ch11 grinding you did.

I would have to agree with that. I just started chapter 11 and I must say that for the last couple of chapters the battles are fun, but by the end of each area I am just sick of them because they just have so many to slog through.

 

[Thrakier]

lol you're too negative about FFXIII to win
really, just debuff the grunts and buff your party a bit, let a SEN take the damage until you're good to switch to ravers and cmds. It's not rocket-science, that or you're under-leveled.

The grunts aren't the amin problem, that huge ass robot is! He is killing me after 20 minutes when he starts going wild. How can I be underleveld? Weapons maxed, made like 30 missions, I'm well in circle 9...

 

[Feep]

FFXIII's scoring system is easily undermined by grinding or using overpowered shrouds, but that doesn't mean it can be ignored or disregarded in a review. Scoring systems should be analyzed and reviewed like every other part of a game. I think adding a scoring system is a good idea for any RPG. The scoring system is not worthless because 'it's based solely on time' or 'because it has little effect on the game', it's worthless because the scoring results can be undermined by grinding/shrouds.

It's not "little effect", it's "zero effect". His words would be better spent talking about the shader effect in the background of the Crystarium screen, because that had a larger effect on the user's experience, in my opinion.

It's unfair to expect someone to talk at any length about a meaningless number when they clearly have much more to say. Not trying to be rude, but it's my opinion that the scoring system should have zero effect on the overall view of this game.

 

[mjemirzian]

It's not "little effect", it's "zero effect". His words would be better spent talking about the shader effect in the background of the Crystarium screen, because that had a larger effect on the user's experience, in my opinion.

It's unfair to expect someone to talk at any length about a meaningless number when they clearly have much more to say. Not trying to be rude, but it's my opinion that the scoring system should have zero effect on the overall view of this game.

Actually the scoring system does affect the TP regen rate and drop rate % chance.

Almost any game can benefit from a well designed scoring system that promotes efficiency and skill, including this one. Scoring systems are a valuable and long standing part of all kinds of games, not just video games. Just because RPGs rarely have scoring systems doesn't mean you can ignore one that does.

It's my opinion that if the review is going to go on about how S-E is insulting his intelligence and the combat pace is slow and how he's a hardcore gamer, that he should address the scoring system that is the only official analysis of skill at FFXIII. Here's a link to my review if you want to pick it apart.. it's only fair.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Actually the scoring system does affect the TP regen rate and drop rate % chance.

Almost any game can benefit from a well designed scoring system that promotes efficiency and skill, including this one. Just because RPGs rarely have scoring systems doesn't mean you can ignore one that does.

Honesly, I've never even bothered to look at it. Why should I? They could just give you a grade between 1-5 and it'd be both easier to get and make more sense since random six figure numbers doesn't exactly say much.

 

[Kinan]

Honesly, I've never even bothered to look at it. Why should I? They could just give you a grade between 1-5 and it'd be both easier to get and make more sense since random six figure numbers doesn't exactly say much.

 

[Feep]

Maybe we're all confused.

I am NOT talking about the ranking system, which is based solely on time. I'm speaking of the SCORING system, as in, the number that appears on the post-battle screen. I understand the ranking itself has relevance (albeit, not enough for me).

 

[firehawk12]

Maybe we're all confused.

I am NOT talking about the ranking system, which is based solely on time. I'm speaking of the SCORING system, as in, the number that appears on the post-battle screen. I understand the ranking itself has relevance (albeit, not enough for me).

Aren't they one and the same?
Your rank is your score divided by your time or some such.

 

[CrushDance]

Just started, boring and cheesy as hell.

 

[Feep]

Aren't they one and the same?
Your rank is your score divided by your time or some such.

(does internet research)
FUCK, they're the same?! :lol :lol :lol

Why they decided to show an arbitrary number in the tens of thousands is beyond me, then. I think the five stars would have been plenty.

 

[mjemirzian]

Maybe we're all confused.

I am NOT talking about the ranking system, which is based solely on time. I'm speaking of the SCORING system, as in, the number that appears on the post-battle screen. I understand the ranking itself has relevance (albeit, not enough for me).

Technically speaking, the 'scoring system' encompasses all elements of scoring. The 5 digit number shown * the initiative multiplier and the numerical 5 star display are redundant, thus neither one is more useful than the other.

Please check out the game mechanics guide for more details.

 

[The Chosen One]

Okay today I just bought Eternal Sonata, I'm now a much happier person. I've already put in 4 hours and it's the game I was hoping FFXIII would be. Overall Eternal Sonata is fairly linear and story driven. But unlike FFXIII, the "dungeon" environments provide some exploration, I don't need a separate datapad to understand the story, and within my first 4 hours of play I've already been to three separate towns and went into actual shops!

The environments are simply beautiful as well from the very start. I didn't really stop and enjoy the environments in FFXIII until about chapter 6 about 12-13 hours into the game...

Eternal Sonata isn't perfect but like I said it's much closer to the experience I was looking for with FFXIII. I think Square has forgotten that even with heavily story driven games, you still have to suck the player into the world. It can't just be a voyeuristic experience basically watching things unfold.

I might actually give a damn about cocoon if Square would let me walk around and connect with some of the lands and its people.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Christian Nutt's FF13 review... near 10,000 words, and a fantastic read. Having finished the JPN version back in January, I pretty much agree with everything he says.

http://ferricide.livejournal.com/884751.html

A wonderfully thoughtful and well-written review. He was wrong about one thing though: The Fifth Ark (Chapter 10) sucks.

Also, it seems rather silly that after writing 10,000 words he would bother to throw out that widely-criticized trope of game reviews, the star rating at the end.

 

[marathonfool]

I only paid attention to the target time, my own time, and the number of stars.

I usually skipped the loot screen.

That 5-star rating system is addictive. I'm always a bit disappointed in myself if I didn't 5 star a battle. In fact, I restarted battles if I knew I took too long. If I encounter a new mob and didn't 5 star the battle, I always made sure to strategize a better plan to take out the enemies more efficiently at the next encounter.

 

[Feep]

Technically speaking, the 'scoring system' encompasses all elements of scoring. The 5 digit number shown * the initiative multiplier and the numerical 5 star display are redundant, thus neither one is more useful than the other.

Please check out the game mechanics guide for more details.

That's actually right where I went to check.

Ironically, I am making an RPG, and the RPG contains a ranking system (see below). I *do* think it's a good idea, I was just confused on that number. Why bother with that?

 

[Zzoram]

5-star has meaning, the score numbers are meaningless. I don't even notice the score number anymore, and forgot it was even there.

The star system determines how much TP is refilled and chance of loot drop, and for cieth stones, a trophy. That is why the star system is the only one that has obvious value. The scores are meaningless because you have no idea if your score is good or bad, you're not going to remember it to compare with other encounters with the same enemy type. With the 5-star system, you know exactly how you stand in performance.

 

[mjemirzian]

That looks good. Just make sure there's no way to reduce the amount of skill needed to score without penalty.. unlike FFXIII.. where you can use a shroud or grind and easily 5 star almost any fight.

I suppose I should paste in the scoring system formula from the battle mechanics guide to clear up any misconceptions.

Score = {[(Target Time) - (Battle Duration)] x (Points per second)} + 10,000
Target Time = [(Enemy Strength) / (Party Member Strength)] + 8
Enemy Strength: [(HP at the start of Battle) x (enemy level)] / 16
Party Member Strength: [(Attack power x ATB Level) / (3.5 + ATB Level)]
Points per second = [(10,000) / (Target Time)]

If your score * initiative bonus is 13000 or greater, you get 5 stars. If two players scored 15000 and 16000 on the same fight, the player with 16000 played more efficiently according to the game.

 

[hamchan]

Okay today I just bought Eternal Sonata, I'm now a much happier person. I've already put in 4 hours and it's the game I was hoping FFXIII would be. Overall Eternal Sonata is fairly linear and story driven. But unlike FFXIII, the "dungeon" environments provide some exploration, I don't need a separate datapad to understand the story, and within my first 4 hours of play I've already been to three separate towns and went into actual shops!

The environments are simply beautiful as well from the very start. I didn't really stop and enjoy the environments in FFXIII until about chapter 6 about 12-13 hours into the game...

Eternal Sonata isn't perfect but like I said it's much closer to the experience I was looking for with FFXIII. I think Square has forgotten that even with heavily story driven games, you still have to suck the player into the world. It can't just be a voyeuristic experience basically watching things unfold.

I might actually give a damn about cocoon if Square would let me walk around and connect with some of the lands and its people.

:lol :lol :lol

Eternal Sonata is a terrible game that at first impression seems great. Just play it some more and you'll see.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I forgot about that but yeah, that grade is something I always notice when I've finished a fight. The same thing can't be said about the score which doesn't say anything at all, really.

 

[-COOLIO-]

i just finished chapter 11 and i think im going to have to grind again....

I AM ARNT I?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

just started playing again, did mission 5 through 7, am now continuing story (almost got Cura for Light, so my Light/Snow/Fang party will be complete).

Discovering the joys of haste and the Bar spells have totally reinvigorated me. I have a feeling I'm going to see this through to the end now.

 

[CruxisMana]

Slowly ploughing through Chapter 12.

As much as I enjoy playing the game, I'm getting awfully fatigued with the constant battles with next to no story progression.

I just came off when

Spoiler

I spotted all the enemies in Edenhall with Yaag's stupid ship at the end.

 

[ShutDown202]

:lol :lol :lol

Eternal Sonata is a terrible game that at first impression seems great. Just play it some more and you'll see.

100% agreed. The funny thing is a made a post EXACTLY like that a few weeks ago when i got it minus the FFXIII comparisons.

I initially loved it and i still think its really impressive graphically despite being released in 07. But as you start going through the later dungeons, it really is horrible. Im currently at the graveyard part and because i used the wrong flame on the wrong door, i cannot progress anymore. So im around halfway in and now have to start a new file again so im never playing it again.

Ive borrowed The Last Remnant of a friend and i hope thats better. But all the damn loading is starting to get to me.

 

[Thrakier]

This guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orMiufRwcZU&feature=related (Chapter 12) keeps killing me. I have about 4500 to 5000HP. I hate this game with a passion now. Why does it have to be linear AND frustrating!?

 

[BertramCooper]

Christian Nutt's FF13 review... near 10,000 words, and a fantastic read. Having finished the JPN version back in January, I pretty much agree with everything he says.

http://ferricide.livejournal.com/884751.html

That was a really enjoyable read. I've still got a couple of chapters left, but I pretty much agree with everything he said.

He mentioned Final Fantasy X a lot, which I find very appropriate. The two games have a lot in common, but the areas in which they diverge are what make a FFX a fantastic game and FFXIII a so-so game.

 

[flyover]

This guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orMiufRwcZU&feature=related (Chapter 12) keeps killing me. I have about 4500 to 5000HP. I hate this game with a passion now. Why does it have to be linear AND frustrating!?

If you're just looking to finish a battle (just about any mandatory battle), and not worrying about your star rating and how long it takes to win, here's a generic tip. Switch between Combat Clinic (two Medics and a Sentinel) and Protection (Medic/Sentinel/Synergist) at the beginning of battle. For the actual fighting, switch between Delta Attack (Commando/Sentinel/Ravager) and Combat Clinic as necessary. That's a pretty safe, cautious way to win most battles.

I played most of the game with Lightning/Fang/Hope. My Paradigm deck changed a lot, but I always had Combat Clinic there in the sixth slot, just in case. Good luck!

 

[Meier]

If you read the preview for the Stockholm show, it looks like they will be.

I went to DW in December here in Chicago and they played 3-4 tracks from 14 actually. We didn't get anything from 13 though.

I wasn't very impressed with 13's score.. nothing seemed to really stand out to me. I'm going again in August though -- it's a fun experience regardless. There were a couple incredibly hot cosplayers too.

 

[gutterboy44]

Anyone have any end-game tips? I have the growth egg and am doing Fault Warrens CP grind. Should I be going for traps first? It seems like I am going to need max Crys. for Golden Watch accessory.

Also, is the only way for Dark Matter the shop? Please tell me something drops it. 840k!

 

[Nickiepoo]

Ive borrowed The Last Remnant of a friend and i hope thats better. But all the damn loading is starting to get to me.

TLR is not without flaws but unlike ES it has a pretty satisfying battle system, the ability to save almost ANYWHERE and the possibility to avoid almost all the normal battles in the game if you so desire.

EDIT: Funny thing is, once you understand the strange leveling system you realize that avoiding battles isn't really even punishing you either.

This guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orMiufRwcZU&feature=related (Chapter 12) keeps killing me. I have about 4500 to 5000HP. I hate this game with a passion now. Why does it have to be linear AND frustrating!?

It's a nasty battle that, probably the hardest 'forced' fight, but you're very close to the end now. Personally I did it with Light, Sazh and Hope, buffing as much as possible at the start then wailing on him. SABs are useless here so don't even bother, but you can use com/rav/rav then rav/rav/rav to build up the chain very fast to do some actual damage with com/com/rav. I did it without a sen, switching to med/syn/med and med/com/med when I needed to, and med/syn/syn when buffing but that IS risky and doing it with or without one the main tactic is the same. If he ends his stagger in the air instantly (before or just after if you want the extra smite damage) switch to a totally defencive paradigm until he stops using retaliation strike.

 

[Nickiepoo]

EDIT: doublepost, ooops

 

[Cornbread78]

I've had to use more Pheonix Dawn in this game, than any other Final Fantasy or RPG for that matter. If you don't switch your Paradigms just right and right away, you die in about 2 seconds with some enemies... Madning!

 

[ScrabbleDude]

I'm into chapter 5 now. Chapter 4 seemed to be the longest chapter so far so I hope that it continues to progress like that. I was really surprised that the end of the first disk came so soon, and was a little sad that it didn't come with a huge even and revelation like disk changes did in the past.

Still having fun. A little miffed that increasing my role level in a couple roles didn't seem to do anything.

 

[flyover]

Anyone have any end-game tips? I have the growth egg and am doing Fault Warrens CP grind. Should I be going for traps first? It seems like I am going to need max Crys. for Golden Watch accessory.

Also, is the only way for Dark Matter the shop? Please tell me something drops it. 840k!

The

Spoiler

Shaolong Gui (one of the giant tortoises, which apparently replaces the Adamanchelid on the Steppe at some point)

has it as a rare drop. Here's a video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tennisfan16#p/a/f/0/8tG-hPystVc

 

[C.T.]

Anyone have any end-game tips? I have the growth egg and am doing Fault Warrens CP grind. Should I be going for traps first? It seems like I am going to need max Crys. for Golden Watch accessory.

Also, is the only way for Dark Matter the shop? Please tell me something drops it. 840k!

After you finished the titan missions

Spoiler

the tutles become stronger. You got a trophy for defeating the bigger ones. The smaller ones drop a dark matter. But be warned, they have more HP and use a ultimate attack. To counter it change to sen/sen/sen and right before the attack hits to lessen the damage and change immediately to healer/healer/healer. Fully buf (hast, protect, faith/bravery) and cast deprotect, slow and deshell. You should have nearly maxed or maxed 3rd tier weapons and those earth rings and maybe royal/imperial guards. He uses nasty screams which cause dull, so use appropriate accessories, especially on your healer.

 

[Kagari]

I'm into chapter 5 now. Chapter 4 seemed to be the longest chapter so far so I hope that it continues to progress like that. I was really surprised that the end of the first disk came so soon, and was a little sad that it didn't come with a huge even and revelation like disk changes did in the past.

Still having fun. A little miffed that increasing my role level in a couple roles didn't seem to do anything.

That's because the disc changes are meaningless because the game wasn't designed with them in mind. A friend said something similar to me when he got to the third disc, and I just laughed at him because he thought he was almost to the very end.

 

[-COOLIO-]

the chapter 12 boss

OH LORD.

FUCK

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGH

I BEAT HIM

that took a while

that's definitely in my top 5 most intense rpg battles

i also havnt slept. mussst beat game by 7pm :[

 

[Cep]

That's because the disc changes are meaningless because the game wasn't designed with them in mind. A friend said something similar to me when he got to the third disc, and I just laughed at him because he thought he was almost to the very end.

:lol

 

[Lince]

Here's a video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tennisfan16#p/a/f/0/8tG-hPystVc

I loved farming these things, I got a drop almost 75% of the time so I farmed them for like 5 hours straight (beating them in under 2 minutes with the same party shown in the video), when I got my Platinum trophy I still had 3 million gil after upgrading everything and maxing 10 weapons out :lol

 

[gutterboy44]

After you finished the titan missions

Spoiler

the tutles become stronger. You got a trophy for defeating the bigger ones. The smaller ones drop a dark matter. But be warned, they have more HP and use a ultimate attack. To counter it change to sen/sen/sen and right before the attack hits to lessen the damage and change immediately to healer/healer/healer. Fully buf (hast, protect, faith/bravery) and cast deprotect, slow and deshell. You should have nearly maxed or maxed 3rd tier weapons and those earth rings and maybe royal/imperial guards. He uses nasty screams which cause dull, so use appropriate accessories, especially on your healer.

So it seems I should get some traps and tier three weapons before finishing off the titan missions. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

the chapter 12 boss

OH LORD.

FUCK

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGH

I BEAT HIM

that took a while

that's definitely in my top 5 most intense rpg battles

i also havnt slept. mussst beat game by 7pm :[

What boss was that again?

 

[C.T.]

So it seems I should get some traps and tier three weapons before finishing off the titan missions. Thanks for the heads up.

That's right. there's only one of the "old" big turtles left for easy trap hunting if you finish the titan missions. I finished the titan missions with just 2 traps because I didn't know that. But someone here gave the hint that the turtle in chapter 12 drops traps more often and he is right. Got 2 traps after two fights after I had some fights with no drops at all and now I grind for money and dark matter. Have fun

 

[Choopy]

That's right. there's only one of the "old" big turtles left for easy trap hunting if you finish the titan missions. I finished the titan missions with just 2 traps because I didn't know that. But someone here gave the hint that the turtle in chapter 12 drops traps more often and he is right. Got 2 traps after two fights after I had some fights with no drops at all and now I grind for money and dark matter. Have fun

Seriously? Can anyone confirm this?
I farm the ones roaming around the Steppes on and off, and while they've dropped plenty of ingots I've only ever gotten 1 Trap from them. And I'm almost done all the missions too

 

[Ourobolus]

Anyone have any tips for beating Mission 51 (the final titan quest)? I have no level 3 weapons (don't have the upgrade material, and I've pretty much been doing fine so far without - though I know I'll have to upgrade sooner rather than later), and a decent amount into the final crystarium level...

Anyway, he's pretty simple until he casts Doom on the main guy, then I just can't damage him enough to kill him before I die. I don't think he casts Doom at the same time each fight, is there something that triggers it? If I have to go grind for weapons, I'll do that, but I've been avoiding grinding almost completely and have been just fine, so...any ideas?

 

[Kagari]

Digital Foundry says there are 106 FMVs in this game.

 

[brandonh83]

Digital Foundry says there are 106 FMVs in this game.

So there's room for over 100 FMV's in the game but they can't... oh fuck it.

 

[Cep]

So there's room for over 100 FMV's in the game but they can't... oh fuck it.

:lol

 

[Meier]

After you finished the titan missions

Spoiler

the tutles become stronger.

Spoiler

I only need to beat the Neochu (sp?) and then the guy who unlocks for beating all the others and I'll have defeated all the Titan missions. Should I not beat Mission 51 first? I haven't even figured out how to beat a regular Adamantoise let alone worrying about harder ones. :lol Do they only replace the Adamanechild's?

 

[ULTROS!]

Isn't it like... 30 GB worth of cutscenes and 8 GB worth of gameplay for the PS3 version?

 

[BeeDog]

Are there any other ways of increasing the -toise/tortoise Trapezohedron drop rate other than using a maxed Connossieur Catalog? I've killed 3-4 turtles, and only have 1 Trapezohedron (and no Ingots yet).